Veg to flower transition (the stretch)

[MDK]

Looking at my outdoor plants from clone and the differences in them has my curious about timing the flip a little better on my indoor.

First round of indoor for me was plagued by a side by side autoflower grow (do not recommend growing autos with photos). So my photos ended up vegging alot longer than the normal 6ish weeks. So as I happen across more information all the time I stumbled across an interview where someone (forget who now) was saying "the plant was a little more stretchy because I hadn't vegged it as long as it likes". This person was basically saying they flipped to 12/12 when they normally flip (6ish weeks) but that the strain they were currently talking about that stretched a little more likes to veg longer. So in short they were saying if they veg it longer the stretch is less and the buds stack tighter, if they cut veg short the plant stretches more with a looser stacking.

It got me thinking more about the timing....I see people flipping plants that I wouldn't consider I think "those are too small" but come end of flower they look pretty decent in size.

Guess I'm just looking for opinions on the relationship of veg time vs stretch? Do you all go by a strict timeline? Do you look to hit a certain height before flip? Does indica vs sativa change the amount of veg time your giving (seems so)? For those that have grown same cut multiple runs do they always grow similar or have you found variation in growth due to veg time vs flip date?

TL;DR - how long do you veg and if you veg longer does it reduce the stretch in favorable or unfavorable ways?

 

[steamroller]

I prefer to veg until all plants show maturity.
I want to see the pistils and most will show them before flip if you veg long enough.
I see a large part of people are looking for the fastest grow for lots of reasons.
None of them for increased yield. Just a fan of longer veg here.
My first indoor grow vegged for 8 weeks at least, and I honestly did not see a stretch like so many others see. Plants were in the 4-6 foot range.
My room is at 6+ weeks now in veg and figure they keep going for at least another 2-3 weeks before I flip.
I will also be lowering the time lights are on by 1or 2 hours a week when it is time till I get to 12/12.

 

[MDK]

I prefer to veg until all plants show maturity.
I want to see the pistils and most will show them before flip if you veg long enough.
I see a large part of people are looking for the fastest grow for lots of reasons.
None of them for increased yield. Just a fan of longer veg here.
My first indoor grow vegged for 8 weeks at least, and I honestly did not see a stretch like so many others see. Plants were in the 4-6 foot range.
My room is at 6+ weeks now in veg and figure they keep going for at least another 2-3 weeks before I flip.
I will also be lowering the time lights are on by 1or 2 hours a week when it is time till I get to 12/12.

So since you like to veg til maturity I'm taking it you've tried just a quick veg before and didn't prefer the result?

I'm basically curious for how the buds stack with various degrees of stretch....figure if everything stacks super tight I got a greater chance of mold and rot vs a looser stacking?

 

[steamroller]

I rushed a couple grows IMO.
Monkey see monkey do. I mean all the other kids are doing it you know...
I got smaller plants, buds and less overall yield.
Not a hard choice for me now as long as I can afford the room anymore.
My whole goal is a nice long enough veg and then they can do what they want to some degree.
I can not even contemplate outdoor growing in NY anymore. I think there will be alot of frustration and disappointment for outdoor growers in areas that have had more than average rain and humidity this year.
I like to stress my plants not vice versa.

 

[MDK]

I rushed a couple grows IMO.
Monkey see monkey do. I mean all the other kids are doing it you know...
I got smaller plants, buds and less overall yield.
Not a hard choice for me now as long as I can afford the room anymore.
My whole goal is a nice long enough veg and then they can do what they want to some degree.
I can not even contemplate outdoor growing in NY anymore. I think there will be alot of frustration and disappointment for outdoor growers in areas that have had more than average rain and humidity this year.
I like to stress my plants not vice versa.

Man, I'm thinking about a cheap box fan or something to put outdoor on an extension cord by my plants...every morning lots of dew. If I do another outdoor grow I'm focusing on short flowering strains 100% 8 maybe 9 weeks...none of these 10 to 12 week plants which I currently have, going to be a challenge.

 

[steamroller]

Jeff [ Dragon Flames Genetics] I believe has been working on a mold resistant plant.
I would buy stock for those if it was available.
I think they will be in HIGH demand by many soon as they realize things are changing.
I had a large dehumidifier in my greenhouse running 24/7 last year and it did not stop the PM.
This year's weather here in NY is so much worse IMO.
I am all but sure I will need a dehumidifier in my grow room this year.
I have only seen under 60%RH once or twice and I only water every 5-7 days...
When I water it may go as high as 70% for a day or so.
My room is not sealed but I introduce no fresh air. It is passive with two ACs inline set to add fresh air when temp is over 85f[ they never turn on with Air conditioner running the temp game at 82 tops]. I have one AC set to vent when humidity gets to 68% and it has run more than I would have thought.
It really doesn't help quickly when all it draws in is air that is too humid from outdoors. So glad I passed on clones from my buddies that 'could have gone outside' since they all know nothing foreign is allowed in the room.

TSD and a few others would go out and blow their plants off in a.m. with cordless blowers last year and I suspect this year will be no different.
I can't do that so..

 

[CannaGranny]

For me it’s all about height. Scrogging calls for the plant to be four to six inches taller than my 24” tall table. Using this method allowing them to become too big is just as detrimental as too small.

 

[MDK]

For me it’s all about height. Scrogging calls for the plant to be four to six inches taller than my 24” tall table. Using this method allowing them to become too big is just as detrimental as too small.

So you want your plants 4 to 6 inches above your scrog before you smash them under the scrog? Trying to understand it...

Your table at 24...means you let your plants get 28-30 inches. Then when you put the scrog down it smashes them down to 24inches so for the 12/12 flip they bounce right back up then hit their stretch?

 

[Pipecarver]

Looking at my outdoor plants from clone and the differences in them has my curious about timing the flip a little better on my indoor.

First round of indoor for me was plagued by a side by side autoflower grow (do not recommend growing autos with photos). So my photos ended up vegging alot longer than the normal 6ish weeks. So as I happen across more information all the time I stumbled across an interview where someone (forget who now) was saying "the plant was a little more stretchy because I hadn't vegged it as long as it likes". This person was basically saying they flipped to 12/12 when they normally flip (6ish weeks) but that the strain they were currently talking about that stretched a little more likes to veg longer. So in short they were saying if they veg it longer the stretch is less and the buds stack tighter, if they cut veg short the plant stretches more with a looser stacking.

It got me thinking more about the timing....I see people flipping plants that I wouldn't consider I think "those are too small" but come end of flower they look pretty decent in size.

Guess I'm just looking for opinions on the relationship of veg time vs stretch? Do you all go by a strict timeline? Do you look to hit a certain height before flip? Does indica vs sativa change the amount of veg time your giving (seems so)? For those that have grown same cut multiple runs do they always grow similar or have you found variation in growth due to veg time vs flip date?

TL;DR - how long do you veg and if you veg longer does it reduce the stretch in favorable or unfavorable ways?

For me I've only flipped 5 - 6 week old plants once and I won't do it again. I had small plants with a very small harvest that didn't last until my next harvest was done.....same reason I don't like Auto's very much. By 7-8 weeks most are mature enough and at a pretty good size to flip. those extra couple of weeks makes all the difference to me.

I've always believed the longer the veg the shorter the stretch but I've mostly grown Indica's, I've only noticed Sativa's stretching uncontrollably after flipping.

 

[Rootsruler]

For me it’s all about height. Scrogging calls for the plant to be four to six inches taller than my 24” tall table. Using this method allowing them to become too big is just as detrimental as too small.

I agree. Being able to anticipate stretch, IMO, will yield you the highest quality flower as you'll be able to supply it with the most photons in a scrog. I like a veg and stretch where when I let them go vertical it only stretches maybe 6" to 8" vertical.

 

[MDK]

I agree. Being able to anticipate stretch, IMO, will yield you the highest quality flower as you'll be able to supply it with the most photons in a scrog. I like a veg and stretch where when I let them go vertical it only stretches maybe 6" to 8" vertical.

Hell yea totally agree...that's what I'm trying to reign in.

@CannaGranny didn't want to seem like I was asking a dumbass question after you just gave me the height numbers...I just wanted to be sure I was correct. I half ass pay attention and I believe you flip 12/12 when you drop your scrog correct? So I just am seeing it as you smash your plants down 4-6 inches with the scrog at flip....then when your canopy rises up through your scrog that IS the stretch...?

I read that back and it's hella confusing but ya know what I mean vern

 

[Bandit420]

There's variables to this...strain..method...etc.
It's not really a certain amount of time IMO but more of what's done in that time frame matters more. Like a slow growing plant will probably take a couple months or longer to veg out. But a speedy plant can be mature and ready in about 4 weeks.
Early flower yeilds can be made up by plant density as well. So if I was doing 12/12 from seed or clone, I'd run maybe 20-30 single cola plants which would yield about the same as five 6 cola plants.
In my room, the most prolific growth happens between flipping the lights and pistils showing so I veg for 4 weeks and then get a ton of growth in that two week time frame between flip and pistils showing. Inside that is the difference between growth and stretch. If you get stretch, it needs to be managed. If you get growth, you get huge plants and the yield to go with it. To get growth is one of the reason why I start pruning for growth very early

 

[growsinse79]

I always flip very young plants. I agree they stretch more than older ones. I usualy flip around 3 weeks - 6" at flip and plants usually finish 24-36" tall with about 1.5 -2oz.

 

[Max]

I’ll say the light used(spectrum) plays a big part in how much they will stretch in flower.take for example @SSHZ grows under the Gavita have all stayed short regardless of the percentage of sativa/indica present in their genetics.and only vegging 4-5 weeks..you will get the odd variant that will stretch 2-3 times more than it’s sibling..we can manipulate their stretch using temp differential inside .outsides a whole different scenario…

 

[CannaGranny]

So you want your plants 4 to 6 inches above your scrog before you smash them under the scrog? Trying to understand it...

Your table at 24...means you let your plants get 28-30 inches. Then when you put the scrog down it smashes them down to 24inches so for the 12/12 flip they bounce right back up then hit their stretch?

Exactly!

 

[CannaGranny]

Hell yea totally agree...that's what I'm trying to reign in.

@CannaGranny didn't want to seem like I was asking a dumbass question after you just gave me the height numbers...I just wanted to be sure I was correct. I half ass pay attention and I believe you flip 12/12 when you drop your scrog correct? So I just am seeing it as you smash your plants down 4-6 inches with the scrog at flip....then when your canopy rises up through your scrog that IS the stretch...?

I read that back and it's hella confusing but ya know what I mean vern

There are no dumbass questions! My table stands at 24”, the least amount that I want to push under is around 4”. My fav height is around 8-9” above the height of the table.
On the day I go to flower, I lollipop and place the scrog table top and flip them to 12/12.
Yes every single node on the limb pushed under, will stretch.
You got it!

 

[Rootsruler]

There are no dumbass questions! My table stands at 24”, the least amount that I want to push under is around 4”. My fav height is around 8-9” above the height of the table.
On the day I go to flower, I lollipop and place the scrog table top and flip them to 12/12.
Yes every single node on the limb pushed under, will stretch.
You got it!

I set my netline close to CG's. Mine is set at 18". I also do early LST to keep the main branches under control along with them being more pliable with less chance of splitting at the node.

 

[Rootsruler]

There's variables to this...strain..method...etc.
It's not really a certain amount of time IMO but more of what's done in that time frame matters more. Like a slow growing plant will probably take a couple months or longer to veg out. But a speedy plant can be mature and ready in about 4 weeks.
Early flower yeilds can be made up by plant density as well. So if I was doing 12/12 from seed or clone, I'd run maybe 20-30 single cola plants which would yield about the same as five 6 cola plants.
In my room, the most prolific growth happens between flipping the lights and pistils showing so I veg for 4 weeks and then get a ton of growth in that two week time frame between flip and pistils showing. Inside that is the difference between growth and stretch. If you get stretch, it needs to be managed. If you get growth, you get huge plants and the yield to go with it. To get growth is one of the reason why I start pruning for growth very early

This would require a mother room no?

 

[CannaGranny]

I set my netline close to CG's. Mine is set at 18". I also do early LST to keep the main branches under control along with them being more pliable with less chance of splitting at the node.

I have a set of 18” legs too. I use them if it’s a heavy indica, more short and squat.
Sorry to hear about your injury. Glad you still have that hand!

 

[Bandit420]

This would require a mother room no?

Some might use mother plants, some might roll over clones from clones. Matter of preference and I've seen it be successful with both. Also seen it done with seeds as in 12/12 from seed. Obviously no mother plant required for that. Just a lot of seeds

 

[Rootsruler]

One of the things I'll do going forward is not net them as quickly. CG uses the net as a sort of LST/Scrog. I'm going to net it later than CG does so that I can veg longer into stretch and not have to deal with verticals going beyond 12". In the time CG would have her screen filling out I will use LST to keep them in check and even to the net line. Don't get me wrong I love a 12" cola but that would be at the expense of the canopy and net line. Going longer before net makes it easier to trim and hand water also.

Obviously it depends on how much stretch you plant does but I'm guessing net time going into week 3 of flip should be enough time for them to stretch with my catching the last 30% of it for vertical growth.