All things shrooms

[tobh]

My thoughts were the same, but I'm unsure of my next move at this point.

What would you do to encourage fruiting ... adding a coco/vermiculite based casing? Is this even worth attempting? Or is something so "off" its just not going to produce fruit?

Edit: FAE very 3 hrs during the day up to bed time.

alright, how dense is the polyfill in the holes?

In order to correct the problem, gotta understand the root causes. IME overlay happens most often in one of two scenarios: CO2 evacuation isn't happening often or effective enough, or humidity is remaining too high. It can also be caused by too low of humidity, but that's less common. With how shrunk your casing is, I wonder if that's what's going on, though.

Now, to overcome overlay. The simplest way IME is to score the top of the casing with a fork, then put a casing layer on it. Keep the casing in fruiting conditions, and see if it'll recover. If after seven days, still no pins, cold shock the bitch.

KSSS never required a cold shock when I was growing it, but maybe you pulled the luck of the draw from the batch of spores you started with.

Just to confirm, though, remind me how this grow was started? Multispore to initial spawn, or liquid culture? I seriously doubt another scenario is what's happening here, but gotta ask just in case.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah try to drop to about 70f. lol oks like its an FAE issue to me. I see the droplets and it’s definitely hydrophobic. Try leaving the lid cracked a bit and fan for about 2-3 min if possible a few times a day.

There is variations of every genetic so can’t rule out this one is a picky fruiter.

Like @tobh i see knots so my best guess would be FAE

 

[Aqua Man]

Substrate and spawn i think, what do you consider spawn?

Yep that will work… just make sure you put the tinfoil between it.

 

[Observer]

My thoughts were the same, but I'm unsure of my next move at this point.

What would you do to encourage fruiting ... adding a coco/vermiculite based casing? Is this even worth attempting? Or is something so "off" its just not going to produce fruit?

Edit: FAE very 3 hrs during the day up to bed time.

More FAE, I think would help.

Pins start to grow as the top condensate layer evaporates

As I've read.

 

[MiGrampa]

Yeah try to drop to about 70f. lol oks like its an FAE issue to me. I see the droplets and it’s definitely hydrophobic. Try leaving the lid cracked a bit and fan for about 2-3 min if possible a few times a day.

There is variations of every genetic so can’t rule out this one is a picky fruiter.

Like @tobh i see knots so my best guess would be FAE

That one is easy enough. I can remove the polyfil and put actual monotub filters in its place. That should allow better natural air exchange. I'll tell my wife to leave the lid off after fanning for up to five minutes each time she does it during the day. If nothing happens by the weekend, I'll drag a sterilized fork through the top surface and then case it with the coco/vermiculite casing I made ( pressure sterilized for 2 hrs).

Edit: KSSS came as a liquid culture.

 

[MiGrampa]

Pollyfill is out and monotub filters are in its place. Lowering temp any lower could be hard to do unless I place the tub directly on the concrete floor.

What exactly is "cold shocking" and what is the correct procedure?

 

[Aqua Man]

Pollyfill is out and monotub filters are in its place. Lowering temp any lower could be hard to do unless I place the tub directly on the concrete floor.

What exactly is "cold shocking" and what is the correct procedure?

Never done it or had to but i have heard sometimes its needed. @tobh will know more about this than myself

 

[MiGrampa]

Never done it or had to but i have heard sometimes its needed. @tobh will know more about this than myself

I made my first adjustment with the monotub filters. I'll give that a few days to make a difference.

My wife says she can leave the lid off of it when she fans for a couple minutes longer.

I took the temperature of the floor using an infrared thermometer. My basement floor is 73f. If I have to, I can get the substrate temperature down just a bit more by putting it on the floor.

 

[tobh]

What exactly is "cold shocking" and what is the correct procedure?

Put the thing in the fridge for a few hours. It's supposed to simulate the cold snap of late fall/early winter. The science regarding whether a cold shock is necessary is considered more old-school bro science now, but when I started 20 years ago, it was still a practice thought to be required.

Edit: KSSS came as a liquid culture.

Hmmm... and that's where the scenario I'm hoping isn't the case for you is rooted. Depending on whether the culture they used to create the LC was from a fruit body or an isolation from a multi-spore culture could be the difference between you getting any fruits or just grow a brick of mycelium.

This is the struggle with agar work -- you start from MS on agar so you can be sure you're working with a clean culture but you have to fruit that culture and clone from a fruit body to ensure you have a fruiting isolation.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah unlikely if they are from a decent source but these days you never inow.

Id put it on the floor to drop those temps hit it with a tad more light if you can and increase the FAE. HmThats the three things that usually help initiate fruiting…. Sometimes the genetic will be like this where it needs to colonize heavily before it will fruit.

 

[MiGrampa]

Put the thing in the fridge for a few hours. It's supposed to simulate the cold snap of late fall/early winter. The science regarding whether a cold shock is necessary is considered more old-school bro science now, but when I started 20 years ago, it was still a practice thought to be required.

Hmmm... and that's where the scenario I'm hoping isn't the case for you is rooted. Depending on whether the culture they used to create the LC was from a fruit body or an isolation from a multi-spore culture could be the difference between you getting any fruits or just grow a brick of mycelium.

This is the struggle with agar work -- you start from MS on agar so you can be sure you're working with a clean culture but you have to fruit that culture and clone from a fruit body to ensure you have a fruiting isolation.

I don't know about the culture and how it was made. It sounds like you personally would work with spore syringes over agar colonized mycelium considering the source of the spores is always from a fruiting body?

I get what you're saying about the source of the clone. I see where that can make all the difference in the world.

Edit: I hope my rambling is making sense lol.

 

[Aqua Man]

I don't know about the culture and how it was made. It sounds like you personally would work with spore syringes over agar colonized mycelium considering the source of the spores is always from a fruiting body?

I get what you're saying about the source of the clone. I see where that can make all the difference in the world.

Edit: I hope my rambling is making sense lol.

If its from a clone your good… if its from soore and they only tested the mycelium then it’s possible it may not fruit no matter what you do

 

[Observer]

Put the thing in the fridge for a few hours. It's supposed to simulate the cold snap of late fall/early winter. The science regarding whether a cold shock is necessary is considered more old-school bro science now, but when I started 20 years ago, it was still a practice thought to be required.

Hmmm... and that's where the scenario I'm hoping isn't the case for you is rooted. Depending on whether the culture they used to create the LC was from a fruit body or an isolation from a multi-spore culture could be the difference between you getting any fruits or just grow a brick of mycelium.

This is the struggle with agar work -- you start from MS on agar so you can be sure you're working with a clean culture but you have to fruit that culture and clone from a fruit body to ensure you have a fruiting isolation.

ahh

stratification?

 

[MiGrampa]

Yeah unlikely if they are from a decent source but these days you never inow.

Id put it on the floor to drop those temps hit it with a tad more light if you can and increase the FAE. HmThats the three things that usually help initiate fruiting…. Sometimes the genetic will be like this where it needs to colonize heavily before it will fruit.

I can put the tub on the floor with the light directly above the tub by about 6.5 feet.

If its from a clone your good… if its from soore and they only tested the mycelium then it’s possible it may not fruit no matter what you do

I'll keep trying until the Pans Cyans are ready to fruit. Those are still in spawn bags and will likely remain there for at least another week.

 

[Observer]

the problem is mold spores won't magically sprout because of too much water content within the jars. Bacteria will, but not mold, so long the jars have been properly sterilized. Opening jars that aren't fully colonized is a sure fire way to end up with mold, though.

there are ways to sterilize jars without a PC, but it's not as time or energy efficient. basically, you make up your jars, then put them in a pot of water and boil them for 90 minutes. let sit for 24 hours, and repeat the boiling again. You do this three to four times and stand a higher likelihood of having sterile jars.

The basic idea of how this works is ungerminated endospores are incredibly hard to destroy at atmospheric pressure, and consequently, what typical boiling temperatures are. That's why we use pressure cookers to do the sterilization step. By boiling multiple times over the span of multiple days, you allow time for any endospores to germinate, then you kill the young lifeforms before they have a chance to gain momentum and become problematic.

once the jars are sterilized, you just gotta make sure to stick to strict aseptic protocols until colonization is complete, including not opening the jars outside of a sterile environment like a SAB. Even then, I wouldn't recommend opening jars until they're fully colonized as you're just risking contamination after all your hard work to eliminate competition for the mycelium you want to grow.

ok again, thanks for sharing the knowledge.

i just lack understanding of the Myco world.

and by mold, i mean Green. lol.

so im probably wrong about that too.

 

[tobh]

I don't know about the culture and how it was made. It sounds like you personally would work with spore syringes over agar colonized mycelium considering the source of the spores is always from a fruiting body?

I get what you're saying about the source of the clone. I see where that can make all the difference in the world.

Edit: I hope my rambling is making sense lol.

yeah, i gotcha.

So, I have always started from spore. I used to inoculate grain directly with spore syringes, accepting the inherent risk of contamination. spore syringes simply can't be trusted to be clean as the very act of taking a spore print exposes the collection media directly to contamination on the cap of the mushroom. Sometimes it works, sometimes it fails spectacularly.

Now, my agar process is pretty straight forward:

• Clean a shot glass real good with 70% ISO and set to the side
• Using a propane torch, heat up my inoculation loop till red hot and set to the side
• Squirt ~0.5cc or less of thoroughly beat/mixed spore solution into the shot glass
• Stir the spore solution with the inoculation loop
• Streak an agar plate with the inoculation loop following industry standard four-quadrant streaking procedures

Once germination happens, I try to do the first transfers to new agar plates ASAP. This ensures that any contamination doesn't get carried over to subsequent generations of plates, and still retain the vigor of being so close to spore germination.. Ideally one should be able to go to LC or grain by the second or third transfer.

If by T3 you still have contams, you start over from spore.

 

[Aqua Man]

ok again, thanks for sharing the knowledge.

i just lack understanding of the Myco world.

So does everyone who hasn’t learned bro… your a quick learner and im sure once you get some time and a PC you will blow it out of the water

 

[tobh]

ahh

stratification?

kind of. Typically stratification takes a period of weeks to months, whereas in this instance it takes only a few hours to overnight. A lot of new research says it's not even required, that cubensis doesn't experience any hormonal shifts or have any other indicators of requiring that trigger unlike some edible and medicinal varieties.

 

[Zen_seeker]

FWIW I went through everything you newbies are going through, too. Lots of lessons learned over the years, and especially those first few grows. Hell, before I got my first mushroom harvest I couldn't even keep a cannabis plant alive, but that changed too once I figured out some of the processes for successfully growing mushrooms.

Y'all will get there, and when you do you'll be so damn proud that you'll gladly forget all of the pain you went through to get that first harvest. I'm here rooting for you, and will try to help out as I can!

Thanks man. Everyone in this thread is very supportive. Makes giving it a try that much easier. No haters or asshats.

 

[tobh]

Knocked up plates

I couldn't remember today's date before taking the picture, so.... yeah. there's that.

 

[Observer]

So does everyone who hasn’t learned bro… your a quick learner and im sure once you get some time and a PC you will blow it out of the water

Thanks Aqua, Appreciate it.

 

[tobh]

And this is an example of what bacterial infections oftentimes look like on agar. Right in the middle of the light shining, you'll see dull spots. That be bacteria.

 

[MiGrampa]

And this is an example of what bacterial infections oftentimes look like on agar. Right in the middle of the light shining, you'll see dull spots. That be bacteria.
View attachment 15194

Yes, I see that ... kind of like cloudy dots. There's a cluster of various sizes pretty much in the center of the petri dish.

BTW, I appreciate all the help.

 

[tobh]

Yes, I see that ... kind of like cloudy dots. There's a cluster of various sizes pretty much in the center of the petri dish.

BTW, I appreciate all the help.

you got it. it can be tricky to spot those with the lid on when you first start working with this material, but then you figure out how to wiggle the plate in light to check plates before opening/using. those were the last plates i made at the last house probably four months ago, and i didn't keep em in cold storage, so i'm surprised they even kept as long as they did.

recommendations for agar is to use within two to four weeks of pouring, or put in cold storage.

 

[MiGrampa]

you got it. it can be tricky to spot those with the lid on when you first start working with this material, but then you figure out how to wiggle the plate in light to check plates before opening/using. those were the last plates i made at the last house probably four months ago, and i didn't keep em in cold storage, so i'm surprised they even kept as long as they did.

recommendations for agar is to use within two to four weeks of pouring, or put in cold storage.

I haven't progressed to agar in petri dishes yet. I have used this product with the pans cyan spores. I wanted plenty of opportunity to get it right so I made my own liquid culture.

https://www.midwestgrowkits.com/Premium-Liquid-Culture-Kit

I would love to have a good recipe to make my own liquid culture solution at home. I've read through a bunch and thought about making a potato dextrose solution. It seems easy enough .... or is there something better you would recommend?

It seems like petri dishes would be a more professional approach. If this becomes something I do long term I might make a few adjustments to up my game.

 

[tobh]

I haven't progressed to agar in petri dishes yet. I have used this product with the pans cyan spores. I wanted plenty of opportunity to get it right so I made my own liquid culture.

https://www.midwestgrowkits.com/Premium-Liquid-Culture-Kit

I would love to have a good recipe to make my own liquid culture solution at home. I've read through a bunch and thought about making a potato dextrose solution. It seems easy enough .... or is there something better you would recommend?

It seems like petri dishes would be a more professional approach. If this becomes something I do long term I might make a few adjustments to up my game.

Any dextrose will work. LC is a controversial thing in the hobbyist community as you can't see contaminants in it as easily as you can on agar, but every large producer of spawn and mushrooms used LC. It's the only way to scale, tbh.

I'm actually working on making more lids for LC jars right now, because that's what I'm going to use once I have clean cultures. Then will be using some malt extract for the LC solution.

The thing with LCs is you want them to be completely clear otherwise you might mistake shit floating around for mycelium or contaminant, and you want to let them sit for a few days after you make em to confirm they're actually clean before inoculating.

 

[tobh]

The hood was off for maybe two hours lol pulled this plate for transfers as it was a third gen transfer taken before Christmas.

Also have some LC in the PC so gonna need the hood to get the syringe filter on it and for cooling post sterilization.

 

[Observer]

The hood was off for maybe two hours lol pulled this plate for transfers as it was a third gen transfer taken before Christmas.

Also have some LC in the PC so gonna need the hood to get the syringe filter on it and for cooling post sterilization.

View attachment 15233

how long can you keep it like that, in the petri?

 

[tobh]

how long can you keep it like that, in the petri?

a culture can be held onto for roughly a year on a petri dish. really, that's not ideal though. you don't want to let em get all the way to the edges because bacterial infections can take hold there (see the previous post of how sneaky bacteria can be) and you won't know you're transferring bacteria because the mycelium will run right over the top of it.

for long term culture storage, slants is the way. test tubes with agar that is allowed to cool on a slant, then a small culture sample is placed on the surface and allowed to colonize the surface before going into cold storage which you could then store that culture for a few years before needing to take a sample and move it to another slant or propagate it for production.

fun fact -- tissue culturing is nearly the same thing as slants. small surface area with a lot of stored nutrient density enabling long term storage of genetic material.

 

[tobh]

rabbit hole @MiGrampa https://www.shroomery.org/8421/Panaeolus-cyanescens-FAQ