The Psyche Gardens

[Skinnypuppy80]

Tap water that's 7-8 pH, 60-160 ppm
2grams 9-10-28 (AN Sensi Grow Part A salts)
(not a fan of this ratio, especially going into flower, too much nitrogen, and a weird N: P ratio)

1gram mag sulfate
0.7grams pot sulfate.
0.4 grams Citric Acid to pH to 5.8-6.1 for flower.

Unfortunately, nitrogen is pretty bioavaiable the entire pH range we'd be using.



Need to switch to MPK + micros, gotta buy some.

550 ppm/ 1.1 E.c / 5.9 pH 1.5ml hypo acid, 5ml 3% h²o²

450 PPFD
70RH% / 80 F°
Water temp 75F
2s on / 2:15 off currently.
2 fans on max setting

Need to replace that back quick connect, I think it's just fucking up the nozzle, clogging it with plastic, I think.

Damn dude! It's real hard for me to follow you when u get this crazy specific. Can u do a dumbed up version? lol

 

[Observer]

Damn dude! It's real hard for me to follow you when u get this crazy specific. Can u do a dumbed up version? lol

Added more data too lol

Anything specific?

I grow with salts ,and can pretty closely control what exactly the plant gets or doesn't.

And I use the "sterile" route, currently.
Using hypochlorous acid AND h2o2 to try and keep things sterile, any pathogens and root rot controlled.

some say just use one or the other, but ive been experimenting with combining both and if the dosages are right its good(?)
 

You want some certain NPK ratio for Veg, and a different ratio at different stages of flowering.

The plants still use some nitrogen for photosynthesis, but not as much when we are building the buds.

Need more phosphates, sulfates, calcium and potassium, and of course the micro nutrients

I am now looking at MKP, mono potassium phosphate, something like
0-52-34 to dilute down and "feed" for flower.

the few products I've seen with MKP ratios don't include Micronutrients, probably because you can't mix some chemicals directly.

so I'll need to buy a bag of Micronutrients to go alongside the new MKP ratio, I have the magnesium salts, calcium from tap water, but I won't have iron, boron, Copper, zinc, molybdenum, manganese.

Thought about using ph range to control nitrogen uptake but nitrogen is pretty available the whole range we use.

And my nozzles are misting around 40-80um, micron size of the water droplets, hitting the root system. Needs to be consistently smaller

Currently the cycle is, 2s on, and every 2:30 minutes off.

Oh, and 11/13 light hours, ~18-25 DLI rn

 

[Zen_seeker]

I was just thinking about those nodules last night...crazy.....and similar thoughts i'm advanced open water certified, but I don't have the equipment to go 2k feet lol

No jobs you can swing with that? Cool hobby too.

Started watching the why files take on the dark oxygen nodules

Yeah, saw that too. It’s the second time he’s mentioned them. When I read about them last year or so I mentioned it to Aqua.

I did not know about the voltage they generate then, just the oxygen part but duh, that's from electrolysis.

Lol, yes, tired mind that day. Have a few duh moments now and then too.

 

[Observer]

No jobs you can swing with that? Cool hobby too.

Haven't really looked but not a bad idea.

Thought about doing saturation diving but gotta out of state for the training.

Yeah, saw that too. It’s the second time he’s mentioned them. When I read about them last year or so I mentioned it to Aqua.


Lol, yes, tired mind that day. Have a few duh moments now and then too.

Maybe one in a chamber would generate some extra oxygen without having to do a bunch of shit.

Nature just provided it.

Would not have to worry about equipment corroding or spending money on anticorrosive materials

 

[Observer]

Roots look a little better today
Increased Dry Back.

@ 2s/3m now. From 2 - :45

 

[Observer]

Peppers & Kale

 

[Observer]

Bamboo(s)

 

[Observer]

.

 

[Observer]

Ok I already got new roots popping out switching to 3:25 off

Wow.

That's just over the last few hours

The clearer white is the new growth.

Trichoblasts are starting/trying to form there, needs a little less moisture. Increased dry time by 5 seconds

 

[Observer]

Sweet

Gonna let it sit at 2s/3:30 on/off

10.5/13.5 light hours 20-30 DLi.
On/off

1.1 E.C
5.9 pH

5-7ml 3% peroxide.

 

[Observer]

@Bandit420

Any other thought to the root trellis?

I wanted to design some type of structure like a lattice to 3dprint and help structure the root system.

For hydro environments dwc maybe, aero especially, HPA/LPA , fog.

I saw you're spirals.....thought about those attached to the bottom of the netcups, but it wouldn't be enough "structure" desired.



Hmm, cube lattice attached to underside of the netcup?

Pore size some millimeters?




Edited*



As Above, So Below.

 

[Bandit420]

@Bandit420

Any other thought to the root trellis?

I wanted to design some type of structure like a lattice to 3dprint and help structure the root system.

For hydro environments dwc maybe, aero especially, HPA/LPA , fog.

It will take a much brighter mind than mine.
My solution is use a medium like a very light soil or coco/perlite type blend and a biodegradable grow bag that's about 1/8th the thickness of regular grow bags. My solution is that of a cheater

It's just very difficult because of the natural tendencies of bare roots on cannabis.
They always get that hour glass shape with a nest up top then a long rope down to another nest at the very bottom like what you see there in yours.
They grow so fast and so determined to do that it's impossible for me to train them into doing anything else. What I thought could work was complete failure.
Maybe something like an upside down Xmas tree type design structure, IDK.
I also believe for it to work you'll have to gather up the nerve to physically prune roots with a blade to branch them out. It would be a type of defoliation but in the root zone. I know it's possible but how to do it with the results you want, getting a shorter bushed out root ball and not a long dreadlock style is something nobody is doing and it would be trial and error

 

[Zen_seeker]

Ok I already got new roots popping out switching to 3:25 off

Wow.

That's just over the last few hours

The clearer white is the new growth.

Trichoblasts are starting/trying to form there, needs a little less moisture. Increased dry time by 5 seconds

Does this mean you found the golden ratio?

 

[Zen_seeker]

@Bandit420

Any other thought to the root trellis?

I wanted to design some type of structure like a lattice to 3dprint and help structure the root system.

For hydro environments dwc maybe, aero especially, HPA/LPA , fog.

I saw you're spirals.....thought about those attached to the bottom of the netcups, but it wouldn't be enough "structure" desired.



Hmm, cube lattice attached to underside of the netcup?

Pore size some millimeters?




Edited*



As Above, So Below.

What about a root ball that’s just a frame/cage, not solid? Think large practice golf ball.


I’ve been wanting to test the air layering method on cannabis. Just not sure if it will save time or extend it.

 

[Bandit420]

What about a root ball that’s just a frame/cage, not solid? Think large practice golf ball.
View attachment 102921

I’ve been wanting to test the air layering method on cannabis. Just not sure if it will save time or extend it.

My prediction is that the roots would do what they always do but that ball would be tangled up in them.
You're dealing with two forces of nature here...Gravity and eons of plant evolution.
The growing tip of a root will need to be severed for anything to work.
It's a monumental challenge IMO. Not impossible but one that will be fraught with failures and small victories along the way. The solution will not be simple.

 

[Pipecarver]

My prediction is that the roots would do what they always do but that ball would be tangled up in them.
You're dealing with two forces of nature here...Gravity and eons of plant evolution.
The growing tip of a root will need to be severed for anything to work.
It's a monumental challenge IMO. Not impossible but one that will be fraught with failures and small victories along the way. The solution will not be simple.

I personally like my roots covered in dirt and leave what they do under there a mystery....what they do in the dark stays in the dark.

 

[steamroller]

When you say hydro root cage I think of gutter mesh.
https://www.amazon.com/Frost-VX620-...fc6d&qid=1748187744&s=home-garden&sr=1-1&th=1
Cheap flexible and easy to cut.
Inert.
Think multiple rings like a tree/ concentric.

 

[Observer]

Trichoblasts root hairs.

Hell yes.

 

[Observer]

Similar to in the VG on the little seeds tap roots.

good aero environmemnt.

 

[Observer]

It will take a much brighter mind than mine.
My solution is use a medium like a very light soil or coco/perlite type blend and a biodegradable grow bag that's about 1/8th the thickness of regular grow bags. My solution is that of a cheater

It's just very difficult because of the natural tendencies of bare roots on cannabis.
They always get that hour glass shape with a nest up top then a long rope down to another nest at the very bottom like what you see there in yours.
They grow so fast and so determined to do that it's impossible for me to train them into doing anything else. What I thought could work was complete failure.
Maybe something like an upside down Xmas tree type design structure, IDK.
I also believe for it to work you'll have to gather up the nerve to physically prune roots with a blade to branch them out. It would be a type of defoliation but in the root zone. I know it's possible but how to do it with the results you want, getting a shorter bushed out root ball and not a long dreadlock style is something nobody is doing and it would be trial and error

Here's a start maybe.

Something I could work with.

If I can just work with something with my hands and seeing how it works I can go from there.

Prototyping/R&D

Need to edit the pore size, and the layers within the cube lattice.

I have optimization of the cube/shape/geometry in mind but i can't model it right now.

Increases surface area, needs smaller pores though/spacing.


STL file attached.

 

[Observer]

 

[Observer]

.

 

[Observer]

Does this mean you found the golden ratio?

Getting closer

They seem to be liking the extra dry time. Dialing that in.

±5 seconds if there's still droplets on the roots @ 0:01, before the mist pulse again.

And good for going into flower, a Generative pattern.

 

[Observer]

When you say hydro root cage I think of gutter mesh.
https://www.amazon.com/Frost-VX620-Plastic-Gutter-Guard/dp/B07VDYV1B2/ref=sr_1_1?adgrpid=1335908015169349&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.CP0HlmwTDLQNJMKltzZFjWfYQ7T2gU_gIJ1qPwKd6wjzJscq3vv8N2DowjjObzX--Cp4yoONyBdqwao1cZVTvSBtF_NrAwPmXqvZ7aie_EsIv6UCgH57JwExjGKgmKkLgxHn6rs09eYqkXTLJrWAUBFHgN-hxQaAlVp-NdmK4AKgrfmleZeVjxbw0UVJTjtRp9sR3ZZSMeQdOUmz9xyggxjCnge82xCy3weFhwTDeor6MGfHXGiAl_gnZpPtcVjACOY7-y9i4fTV3gzzu-BRtyNJAFYhV9XdQCFaMIr8HX8.Ri6CvaBThezPPGXMX77mRPvcn9f_FvT807pFmlg-meo&dib_tag=se&hvadid=83494586615765&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=105461&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83495167007635:loc-190&hydadcr=15247_13753852&keywords=gutter+mesh&mcid=39e0e2fc82b83a6fa27e20514c8f0850&msclkid=ba79ef7e83f71e4404a4874db9acfc6d&qid=1748187744&s=home-garden&sr=1-1&th=1
Cheap flexible and easy to cut.
Inert.
Think multiple rings like a tree/ concentric.

Might just try this first, zip tied in the chamber, layered.

 

[Observer]

Scrubbed the tote, line and nozzles

 

[Observer]

Did a heavier defoliation last night

 

[Observer]

Took awhile to get something decent, dumbass bot kept putting the fog above the rootzone lol

 

[Observer]

Tied it in a knot lol

 

[Observer]

Fuck around, and find out.

 

[Observer]

Low tech root structuring, lol