Curled down, droopy sugar leaves. What is this?

Seb

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I'm in coco feeding 1.4EC four times per day, until runoff (2 Gal pots). There are five plants of different strains getting the same feed. They all seem happy except for this one. It is the tallest so maybe light stress? My light is a SF SE7000 on 70% about 9" from the tallest top. Until recently this was the plant that seemed to suffer the least from my mistakes... Turning down the light did not seem to change anything.

Any ideas?

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I dont grow in coco but it looks to me like the start of a nitrogen toxicity.

What are you feeding and how much of each?
Canna Aqua Flores A B. 2/3 RO 1/3 tap water as base. EC is 1.4-1.5. Runoff 1.8

Roughly 4 x 400ml per plant is being fed throughout lights on. All plants are pretty dark which would be consistent with N toxicity, right?
 
Canna Aqua Flores A B. 2/3 RO 1/3 tap water as base. EC is 1.4-1.5. Runoff 1.8

Roughly 4 x 400ml per plant is being fed throughout lights on. All plants are pretty dark which would be consistent with N toxicity, right?
Like i said im not a coco grower so im not familiar with your nutes or how to even grow in coco.
But, it seems like 1.4-1.5 EC at 4x a day would be a lot?
How much runoff are you getting at each fert?
 
yeah, drop the EC by a couple points. ideally you want to see the runoff being equal to what your putting in. if you are consistently seeing elevated EC in runoff, that's indicative that the plants aren't consuming everything you're putting in.
 
yeah, drop the EC by a couple points. ideally you want to see the runoff being equal to what your putting in. if you are consistently seeing elevated EC in runoff, that's indicative that the plants aren't consuming everything you're putting in.
This is what i thought too just didnt wanna say it and make myself look retarded if i was wrong lmao 🤣😂😅
 
This is what i thought too just didnt wanna say it and make myself look retarded if i was wrong lmao 🤣😂😅
nothing wrong with being wrong, it's how one gets called out and responds AFTER that matters lol

but, yeah. with feeding four times a day and seeing elevated EC in runoff, that tells me the input EC is too high, or there are other environment issues. the plants look healthy albeit a bit dark, so I don't think it's a VPD issue and instead the plants are just not consuming everything they could be. this will eventually lead to other deficiencies showing up and is much easier to correct now before the runoff starts showing up at 2+ EC.

1.4 to 1.8 is already a pretty significant jump, so changing the input to 1.2 and watching for a few days will dictate if even less EC is warranted.
 
I'm in coco feeding 1.4EC four times per day, until runoff (2 Gal pots). There are five plants of different strains getting the same feed. They all seem happy except for this one. It is the tallest so maybe light stress? My light is a SF SE7000 on 70% about 9" from the tallest top. Until recently this was the plant that seemed to suffer the least from my mistakes... Turning down the light did not seem to change anything.

Any ideas?

View attachment 19198
Fan or humidity?

Thought I had nitrogen toxicity once or twice but Aqua noticed it was from to much humidity.

Otherwise this is way out of my humble soil attempts. 🤷‍♂️
 
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I'm seeing sawtoothing/tacoing on the leaf edges and leaves pushing away. Where your lights too close?

Might've stunted them which is why you're getting high EC readings.
 
I'm in coco feeding 1.4EC four times per day, until runoff (2 Gal pots). There are five plants of different strains getting the same feed. They all seem happy except for this one. It is the tallest so maybe light stress? My light is a SF SE7000 on 70% about 9" from the tallest top. Until recently this was the plant that seemed to suffer the least from my mistakes... Turning down the light did not seem to change anything.

Any ideas?

View attachment 19198
I'd think if you turn down the light it would make it worse, less light to use up said nutrients (?)
 
I'd think if you turn down the light it would make it worse, less light to use up said nutrients (?)
yes and no. excess light intensity will lead to leaf twisting and flower bleaching. ime it'll show calcium def too, especially under LED. Turning down the lights when other conditions are off can help alleviate symptoms such as leaf twisting, bleaching, calcium def, purple stems, etc. The plant will only uptake what the plant needs, and the pH range also plays a role. There's a massive misunderstanding of how nutrients work. You can't force-feed a plant. It'll take up what it needs, or it can, depending on the other dozen or so factors influencing plant biology.

With mild excess EC and VPD + CO2 concentration just out of range for conditions (I think this is what's happening here) you start to see "The Claw," dark leafs, and slow growth. Pushing the plants a bit hard without CO2 injection (yes, 1.4 EC feed is pushing under LEDs without CO2) can lead to this. The plants can take the nutes but they can't take in enough CO2 to compensate for their transpiration rates. Think of it like the pump factor from taking pre-workout and hammering out a superset where your muscles are super tight and anger and you're breathing like you ran a triathlon. Dropping the EC will bring the plant back into "happy" for its conditions.

With excess EC, you start to see leaf burning and other problems. This is the territory roots are actually being damaged and the water tension in the media is too much for the plant to uptake damn near anything, but it'll uptake anything it can get.

Long winded version of Mulder's chart and common pH nutrient ranges.
 
yes and no. excess light intensity will lead to leaf twisting and flower bleaching. ime it'll show calcium def too, especially under LED. Turning down the lights when other conditions are off can help alleviate symptoms such as leaf twisting, bleaching, calcium def, purple stems, etc. The plant will only uptake what the plant needs, and the pH range also plays a role. There's a massive misunderstanding of how nutrients work. You can't force-feed a plant. It'll take up what it needs, or it can, depending on the other dozen or so factors influencing plant biology.

With mild excess EC and VPD + CO2 concentration just out of range for conditions (I think this is what's happening here) you start to see "The Claw," dark leafs, and slow growth. Pushing the plants a bit hard without CO2 injection (yes, 1.4 EC feed is pushing under LEDs without CO2) can lead to this. The plants can take the nutes but they can't take in enough CO2 to compensate for their transpiration rates. Think of it like the pump factor from taking pre-workout and hammering out a superset where your muscles are super tight and anger and you're breathing like you ran a triathlon. Dropping the EC will bring the plant back into "happy" for its conditions.

With excess EC, you start to see leaf burning and other problems. This is the territory roots are actually being damaged and the water tension in the media is too much for the plant to uptake damn near anything, but it'll uptake anything it can get.

Long winded version of Mulder's chart and common pH nutrient ranges.
Sweet.

I was going to suggest 1.0-1.2ec

Appreciate the extra insight/info
 
I think less light would have pushed the plant less but the conditions still were not ideal. It seems the EC was just too much for the environment (VPD, CO2, PPFD). I checked my notes and I fed 1.5 for a few days and then went back down to 1.4 then 1.2. I will also double check my EC pen calibration. The last week or so before the pic was taken was exceptionally hot (28C) so that probably increased respiration and nutrient uptake. I assume that didn't help.

Thanks for the coaching. I really appreciate it. There is so much to learn so I am grateful for the support (y)
 
I think less light would have pushed the plant less but the conditions still were not ideal. It seems the EC was just too much for the environment (VPD, CO2, PPFD). I checked my notes and I fed 1.5 for a few days and then went back down to 1.4 then 1.2. I will also double check my EC pen calibration. The last week or so before the pic was taken was exceptionally hot (28C) so that probably increased respiration and nutrient uptake. I assume that didn't help.

Thanks for the coaching. I really appreciate it. There is so much to learn so I am grateful for the support (y)
you have a great handle on it man. plants look great regardless, just a little stress. it's not like our competitors (commercial cats hustling to dispos) give as much shits as we do lol
 
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