No veg grow time needed~!

[steamroller]

Found this article on no veg grows.

MSN

My interpretation of the article is it all comes down to the lights.
Hope this helps or inspires someone.
Bandit420 is doing this now and probably has the proper lights to pull it off if you want to see how he is doing.

 

[Observer]

just sounds like a SoG to me with no Veg time

 

[Observer]

just sounds like a SoG to me with no Veg time

curious if there using seeds?

would be funny if they are just taking clones from mothers going straight to flower.

otherwise.


with seeds, i guess straight under 12/13 hours with sufficient ENV/Lighting and nutrients, taking advantage of that hormonal window where they want to blow up to flower.


doesnt really provide any info on the method....




i mean you can veg plants in true aero systems for 5 days and have some bushes

 

[Bandit420]

Highlites of the original press release, some of which did not make the MSN article. The last paragraph here is in the realm of game changer

Fluence and Innexo’s research partnership is focused on assessing the viability of cultivating cannabis without a standard vegetative phase, a practice generally associated with lower energy use that passes savings directly to growers in Europe and around the globe. Preliminary data from Fluence and Innexo demonstrates the potential of the “no-veg” growing method to help growers save money while improving quality and consistency. The Fluence and Innexo teams intend to collaborate on a full-scale research project to validate these initial results.

When the plants would typically enter the vegetative phase, they were instead transplanted to the flowering room, where they immediately received their maximum light intensity. In this system, cannabis crops reach their final height—between 70 and 120 cm—around 28 days after transplant. Eliminating two weeks of vegetative phase represents up to 252 hours of direct electricity savings per light per crop cycle. Additional savings are realized through lower HVAC costs and generally more efficient cultivation cycles. Initial research indicates that “no-veg” growing is most effective with plant densities between eight and 10 plants per m2. Thus far, research has tested the viability of “no-veg” growing across six cannabis cultivars, 10 different nutrient lines and a wide range of light intensities.

“Proper lighting—which must include a strong combination of advanced fixtures and lighting strategy—plays a critical role in creating a more efficient and profitable methodology for cannabis cultivation,” said Dr. David Hawley, principal scientist at Fluence. “This research demonstrates the value of examining and investing in a research-backed lighting strategy from day one. Our goal is to explore, validate and demonstrate the effectiveness of diverse cultivation strategies to ensure every grower can apply data-driven methodologies to their facilities in collaboration with Fluence.”

Fluence and Innexo’s research uncovered potential savings for growers who pursue growing without a vegetative phase, including an average of both 40% lower electrical costs and up to 40% lower labor costs per crop cycle. Because of the fast-paced growth of the plants, researchers found there was less time for pests and diseases to develop, leading to a healthier end product. In addition, this method could reduce waste by eliminating C-Grade flower, which allows for more crop cycles per year and increases overall predictability for growers.
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My first no veg grow at day 55 from dry seed. I'm looking for a harvest window at 80 days from dry seed.
I've stopped counting time in terms of weeks of veg or weeks of flower and instead counting days, starting when the seed is dry and dropped to germinate until harvest.

All of these plants were flipped to flower on the 4th node. I don't trust starting out or germinating on a flowering cycle....yet

Footprint is 4'x10'...22 plants...8 strains...no training. Heights of plants range from 30" to 60"
Already over $150 has been saved in electricity from previous grows.
Feed strength is only 1/10th normal dosage.
Water use has been cut by over 60%.
A roughly 800% increase in size of plant between flip and end of stretch and there's still about a month left for more swelling and stacking.
A better use of headroom vs dead space has been achieved vs past grows.
I expect colas to be about the size of beer bottles and each plant yielding 1.5-2oz for a possible total yield of 44oz

 

[Star Dog]

I find vegging is overrated if you're growing a few plants, I'd only ever root clones and flip them and flipping from seedling isn't unusual for me.

From seedling.


Clones rooted then flipped right away.
Seeds work straight from 12-12 and they still have a vegging period.

These were already flipped.

It works well for me.

 

[Observer]

Hell yeah

Can't wait to stuff 420 plants in a 5x5 straight to 12/12 lol

210 bottom 210 top, platform mid way.

 

[Observer]

Highlites of the original press release, some of which did not make the MSN article. The last paragraph here is in the realm of game changer

Fluence and Innexo’s research partnership is focused on assessing the viability of cultivating cannabis without a standard vegetative phase, a practice generally associated with lower energy use that passes savings directly to growers in Europe and around the globe. Preliminary data from Fluence and Innexo demonstrates the potential of the “no-veg” growing method to help growers save money while improving quality and consistency. The Fluence and Innexo teams intend to collaborate on a full-scale research project to validate these initial results.

When the plants would typically enter the vegetative phase, they were instead transplanted to the flowering room, where they immediately received their maximum light intensity. In this system, cannabis crops reach their final height—between 70 and 120 cm—around 28 days after transplant. Eliminating two weeks of vegetative phase represents up to 252 hours of direct electricity savings per light per crop cycle. Additional savings are realized through lower HVAC costs and generally more efficient cultivation cycles. Initial research indicates that “no-veg” growing is most effective with plant densities between eight and 10 plants per m2. Thus far, research has tested the viability of “no-veg” growing across six cannabis cultivars, 10 different nutrient lines and a wide range of light intensities.

“Proper lighting—which must include a strong combination of advanced fixtures and lighting strategy—plays a critical role in creating a more efficient and profitable methodology for cannabis cultivation,” said Dr. David Hawley, principal scientist at Fluence. “This research demonstrates the value of examining and investing in a research-backed lighting strategy from day one. Our goal is to explore, validate and demonstrate the effectiveness of diverse cultivation strategies to ensure every grower can apply data-driven methodologies to their facilities in collaboration with Fluence.”

Fluence and Innexo’s research uncovered potential savings for growers who pursue growing without a vegetative phase, including an average of both 40% lower electrical costs and up to 40% lower labor costs per crop cycle. Because of the fast-paced growth of the plants, researchers found there was less time for pests and diseases to develop, leading to a healthier end product. In addition, this method could reduce waste by eliminating C-Grade flower, which allows for more crop cycles per year and increases overall predictability for growers.
:
:
:

My first no veg grow at day 55 from dry seed. I'm looking for a harvest window at 80 days from dry seed.
I've stopped counting time in terms of weeks of veg or weeks of flower and instead counting days, starting when the seed is dry and dropped to germinate until harvest.

All of these plants were flipped to flower on the 4th node. I don't trust starting out or germinating on a flowering cycle....yet

Footprint is 4'x10'...22 plants...8 strains...no training. Heights of plants range from 30" to 60"
Already over $150 has been saved in electricity from previous grows.
Feed strength is only 1/10th normal dosage.
Water use has been cut by over 60%.
A roughly 800% increase in size of plant between flip and end of stretch and there's still about a month left for more swelling and stacking.
A better use of headroom vs dead space has been achieved vs past grows.
I expect colas to be about the size of beer bottles and each plant yielding 1.5-2oz for a possible total yield of 44oz

View attachment 46974

Neat man perhaps I'll play around more with straight to 12/12

 

[moe.red]

How does this effect nutes? Is there still a veg ratio used early? PK more at the end?

 

[Bandit420]

just sounds like a SoG to me with no Veg time

curious if there using seeds?

would be funny if they are just taking clones from mothers going straight to flower.

otherwise.


with seeds, i guess straight under 12/13 hours with sufficient ENV/Lighting and nutrients, taking advantage of that hormonal window where they want to blow up to flower.


doesnt really provide any info on the method....




i mean you can veg plants in true aero systems for 5 days and have some bushes

Dutch commercial growers are pretty much the only growers who run a true SOG from what I see. A true perpetual harvest every two weeks grow op where the plants look like a wave of water in an ocean hence the sea of green title. It's usually broken up into 4 sections with each section being two weeks behind the first and two weeks ahead of the next.

It's always been based off mothers feeding the bloom space with clones and those clones going straight to flower. They've been growing that way since the mid90s so yeah clone to bloom is nothing new.
The big difference is in The Netherlands, they use smaller light fixtures, grow smaller plants and more of them where as in the US we have a thing about going big. While they'll use a 400 watt HPS, the American grower believes they need a 1000watt hps to grow monsters suited for a greenhouse or outdoors so we don't see that true Dutch SOG style over here very much.

The density of a no veg grow kinda looks like a SOG but that's where the similarity ends. No veg from seed is closer to monocropping than perpetual IME

 

[Bandit420]

How does this effect nutes? Is there still a veg ratio used early? PK more at the end?

I use a constant feed organic routine and have reduced nutes by 90%. I'm only feeding at 10% I had in previous grows and do not see any defs or burns, just happy ladies

 

[Observer]

Dutch commercial growers are pretty much the only growers who run a true SOG from what I see. A true perpetual harvest every two weeks grow op where the plants look like a wave of water in an ocean hence the sea of green title. It's usually broken up into 4 sections with each section being two weeks behind the first and two weeks ahead of the next.

It's always been based off mothers feeding the bloom space with clones and those clones going straight to flower. They've been growing that way since the mid90s so yeah clone to bloom is nothing new.
The big difference is in The Netherlands, they use smaller light fixtures, grow smaller plants and more of them where as in the US we have a thing about going big. While they'll use a 400 watt HPS, the American grower believes they need a 1000watt hps to grow monsters suited for a greenhouse or outdoors so we don't see that true Dutch SOG style over here very much.

The density of a no veg grow kinda looks like a SOG but that's where the similarity ends. No veg from seed is closer to monocropping than perpetual IME

Hell yeah I'm with the Netherlands on that one, after my 210 solo run, I love just filling a space up and flipping asap

 

[Star Dog]

How does this effect nutes? Is there still a veg ratio used early? PK more at the end?

Im not sure I use canna ab it's only the ec that changes.

If were using veg/bloom I'd go 4/5 wks veg then switch to bloom, from seedling its around 4wks from flip i see the sex and the 1st signs of flowering.

 

[growsinse79]

Flipped day 14 from sprout.

https://budbuilders.org/threads/g79s-kozmic-creations.499/page-8#post-65201

 

[Star Dog]

My seedlings were staggered over 10 days due to losses, but yesterday they were all pointing the right way so I flipped them.
They'll be under t5s for another 2/3 weeks @12-12.

Blockbuster Cheese & Coastal Blueberry in Coco Dtw and autopots.

As per title, coastal blueberry and Blockbuster cheese grown in coco with dtw using canna or hydrosol a&b, maybe a few autopots to? Saturday I soaked the seeds in a solution of H202 and nitrozyme to get them started, yesterday 100% sprouted. Seed solution: 3ml/ltr water (12%) H202, 1ml/ltr...

budbuilders.org

If you're interested the story continues here.

 

[growsinse79]

How does this effect nutes? Is there still a veg ratio used early? PK more at the end?

No veg food needed. I start in a all purpose mix and use grotex solotek bloom 3-8-8 the whole cycle.

 

[Observer]

My seedlings were staggered over 10 days due to losses, but yesterday they were all pointing the right way so I flipped them.View attachment 46999
They'll be under t5s for another 2/3 weeks @12-12.

Blockbuster Cheese & Coastal Blueberry in Coco Dtw and autopots.

As per title, coastal blueberry and Blockbuster cheese grown in coco with dtw using canna or hydrosol a&b, maybe a few autopots to? Saturday I soaked the seeds in a solution of H202 and nitrozyme to get them started, yesterday 100% sprouted. Seed solution: 3ml/ltr water (12%) H202, 1ml/ltr...

budbuilders.org

If you're interested the story continues here.

Love the little bags

 

[MDK]

Think I'm gonna try this or a very short 1 week veg when I run those super destroyer haze seeds I got....idk what else to do with a sativa x sativa. I think my tent is about 6.5 ft tall and the light has to hang down some....then they gotta be above the plant about a foot so I got about 5 feet of room....becomes even less when you account for grow bag height

 

[Star Dog]

I'm aiming to limit the plant size hence flipping so quickly.

If I was looking for bigger plants I'd go for 2.5/3wks veg.
From 12-12 there's still a veg period so it seems logical to take advantage of that vegging window?

@Observer yes they're really handy for seeds and clones, you'll find on ebay or amazon for a few quid per 100.

 

[Star Dog]

Think I'm gonna try this or a very short 1 week veg when I run those super destroyer haze seeds I got....idk what else to do with a sativa x sativa. I think my tent is about 6.5 ft tall and the light has to hang down some....then they gotta be above the plant about a foot so I got about 5 feet of room....becomes even less when you account for grow bag height

I bought a 2x2x3 clone tent recently, the pot height and how much the t5s hang down off the wires has to be taken into account now, tbh it's pretty useless for anything other than seeds and clones unless it's on its end.

I've barely 18" to grow if I put it the right way up.