Does soluble seaweed extract 'harden' your buds?

[Mars_Barz]

Is there any hard data on this?

This claim is made by my local hydroponics store

I'm interested in this stuff because I'd like to experiment with foliar feeding my plants someday, and I hear using this stuff is good for that.

From my limited research on this matter, seaweed is a PGR and those things have an effect on the overall mass of a plant at the cost of flavour and/or overall potency.

Has anyone here ever used this stuff and noticed drastic effects made on the end product, so much that you consider it a 'must use' product in your collection?

 

[steamroller]

Can't say how it works eitherway but I use this;

 

[Observer]

Is there any hard data on this?

This claim is made by my local hydroponics store

I'm interested in this stuff because I'd like to experiment with foliar feeding my plants someday, and I hear using this stuff is good for that.

From my limited research on this matter, seaweed is a PGR and those things have an effect on the overall mass of a plant at the cost of flavour and/or overall potency.

Has anyone here ever used this stuff and noticed drastic effects made on the end product, so much that you consider it a 'must use' product in your collection?

I have soluble seaweed extract but I've only used tiny amounts of it during veg so far

I'll start using it more and see if there's any noticeable difference, and I'll use it more in flower, I only used it as a root zone and not foliar application and once during transition

It did seem to affect elongation.

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

Never tried seaweed extract but have used silica. Tends to make the buds 'harder'. We used to run it all the way through flower, but have since started to cut it out week 5/6. No science to back it up, just personal experience, the branches get brittle and the nugs turn to grinder busters when we ran it all the way through.

 

[Aqua Man]

Seaweed won’t harden buds but look at the product label for any silicates in any form.

 

[Aqua Man]

Never tried seaweed extract but have used silica. Tends to make the buds 'harder'. We used to run it all the way through flower, but have since started to cut it out week 5/6. No science to back it up, just personal experience, the branches get brittle and the nugs turn to grinder busters when we ran it all the way through.

Your observations are bang on

 

[Aqua Man]

Seaweed and a specific species contains triacontanol which is a PGR. I forget whatbi used to use but you do NOT want to use it during veg as it will cause some massive stretch.

oh dam that was it massive by green planet. Works extremely well.

Triacontanol can be derived from bees wax, alfalfa and kelp to name a few common ones. IMO use from week 2-6 or finish using before the last 2 weeks of flower

 

[Mars_Barz]

Seaweed and a specific species contains triacontanol which is a PGR. I forget whatbi used to use but you do NOT want to use it during veg as it will cause some massive stretch.

oh dam that was it massive by green planet. Works extremely well.

Triacontanol can be derived from bees wax, alfalfa and kelp to name a few common ones. IMO use from week 2-6 or finish using before the last 2 weeks of flower

It'll cause stretch even as a foliar spray?

So it is beneficial for use in flower? It doesn't mitigate the other aforementioned effects?

 

[Aqua Man]

It'll cause stretch even as a foliar spray?

So it is beneficial for use in flower? It doesn't mitigate the other aforementioned effects?

Yes triacontanol is a plant growth hormone. Applied either foliar or to roots it will have the same effect. Its more effective as a foliar as most things are

 

[Aqua Man]

It'll cause stretch even as a foliar spray?

So it is beneficial for use in flower? It doesn't mitigate the other aforementioned effects?

Hmm mitigate which? Just want to be sure i answer accurately

 

[Mars_Barz]

Hmm mitigate which? Just want to be sure i answer accurately

potency and/or flavour profile

 

[Aqua Man]

potency and/or flavour profile

Depends on the ingredients but triacontanol does not.

I think if you look at the ingredients by your description it will be kelp, potassium silicate, fulvic/humic acid and magnesium sulphate. Ir very similar.

The kelp is a PGR. The sulphur helps with perps and flavonoids, the magnesium helps with the burn, potassium is in high demand in flower, silica will harden bud and plant tissue.

Thats your typical bud booster.

 

[Mars_Barz]

Depends on the ingredients but triacontanol does not.

I think if you look at the ingredients by your description it will be kelp, potassium silicate, fulvic/humic acid and magnesium sulphate. Ir very similar.

The kelp is a PGR. The sulphur helps with perps and flavonoids, the magnesium helps with the burn, potassium is in high demand in flower, silica will harden bud and plant tissue.

Thats your typical bud booster.

Apparently this stuff is pure seaweed - https://www.gaiagreen.com/product-page/soluble-sea-weed-extract

It's also REALLY expensive. Would I get similar or better results if I opted instead for potassium sulfate?

 

[SSgrower]

I have soluble seaweed extract but I've only used tiny amounts of it during veg so far

I'll start using it more and see if there's any noticeable difference, and I'll use it more in flower, I only used it as a root zone and not foliar application and once during transition

It did seem to affect elongation.

I don't need elongation, see my thread of PDR & mystery #2 plant. I like hardend buds for eye appeal, only. SS PGR's are Plant Growth Regulators.

 

[SSgrower]

Seaweed and a specific species contains triacontanol which is a PGR. I forget whatbi used to use but you do NOT want to use it during veg as it will cause some massive stretch.

oh dam that was it massive by green planet. Works extremely well.

Triacontanol can be derived from bees wax, alfalfa and kelp to name a few common ones. IMO use from week 2-6 or finish using before the last 2 weeks of flower

I used Massive by Green Planet, liked it but it went up in price, so I found Rooted Leaf and Canna coco play nice.

 

[Aqua Man]

Apparently this stuff is pure seaweed - https://www.gaiagreen.com/product-page/soluble-sea-weed-extract

It's also REALLY expensive. Would I get similar or better results if I opted instead for potassium sulfate?

What are your goals? There are many ways to skin a cat.

Hardness? Growth? Terps and flavonoids?

 

[Aqua Man]

I used Massive by Green Planet, liked it but it went up in price, so I found Rooted Leaf and Canna coco play nice.

Nice i haven’t looked whats in the but they are similar to massive

 

[SSgrower]

I had Massive 1-2-3 for flower stage, was ok, no better than the alternative I decided on, Canna is a two part,A&B ,A has calcium, B has magnesium. Cheers @Aqua Man

 

[Observer]

I had Massive 1-2-3 for flower stage, was ok, no better than the alternative I decided on, Canna is a two part,A&B ,A has calcium, B has magnesium. Cheers @Aqua Man

Massive contains triacontanol

 

[CookiesLikeWhoa]

We ran massive, at 1/4 dosage, during one run.

Pros:
Massive Nugs all around, you can see in our run documented on the other site.
Good calix ratios

Cons:
Stretched everyone like a mother fucker. Legit had plants stretch like 5-6 feet.
We had a lot of herms that run. We haven't ever experienced them prior to that, or since. Can't say it's related, but sure seems interesting.
Really pushes the PPM's up. Like a lot.

Would never do again. I don't want to ever deal with stretch that insane again.

 

[CannaGranny]

Due to the fact that I run seaweed extract from start to the last two weeks, I have to disagree with some of this. Could be the amount, or even the brand. I start out using 3ml per gallon and work it up to a max of 10ml per gal.
I do have nice packed buds, fantastic terps and have not noticed any unusual stretching.

 

[Aqua Man]

Due to the fact that I run seaweed extract from start to the last two weeks, I have to disagree with some of this. Could be the amount, or even the brand. I start out using 3ml per gallon and work it up to a max of 10ml per gal.
I do have nice packed buds, fantastic terps and have not noticed any unusual stretching.
View attachment 63620

Is specific type of kelp that contains triacontanol. That type of kelp contains some cytokines

It also contained aminos etc

Any products containing triacontanol in an adequate dosage will be quite expensive.

Many people list kelp in a kind of marketing ploy because of the huge increase in growth from triacontanol it is still beneficial but its mostly marketing.

This why products like massive are very expensive

 

[Aqua Man]

A gallon of massive at $100 will only make 200gal.

I would assume that the auff you are using @CannaGranny has next to no triacontanol by the time you mix it even if it had the same amount of triacontanol per gal to start with. Bit im fairly sure looking at the price it could not.

Devil is always in the dose.

 

[CannaGranny]

A gallon of massive at $100 will only make 200gal.

I would assume that the auff you are using @CannaGranny has next to no triacontanol by the time you mix it even if it had the same amount of triacontanol per gal to start with. Bit im fairly sure looking at the price it could not.

Devil is always in the dose.

View attachment 63626

That’s what I was thinking. Ive been using this stuff for the past ten years and I love the outcome. At any rate I 100% agree with you!

 

[Aqua Man]

That’s what I was thinking. Ive been using this stuff for the past ten years and I love the outcome. At any rate I 100% agree with you!

Yeah don’t het me wrong there are definitely advantages to using that. You just don’t see the triacontanol effects to the extent that some other products give.

The aminos in the stuff you use are reason enough by themselves to ise it and its a great price

 

[CannaGranny]

Yeah don’t het me wrong there are definitely advantages to using that. You just don’t see the triacontanol effects to the extent that some other products give.

The aminos in the stuff you use are reason enough by themselves to ise it and its a great price

I’m totally happy with it. I use this in conjunction with other products but keep the grow 100% organic. After looking at your example, it makes perfect sense.

 

[CannaGranny]

PS..I’m also as tight with my money as bark on a tree!

 

[Aqua Man]

PS..I’m also as tight with my money as bark on a tree!

Me too i couldn’t justify it indoors… just to much stretch that created massive extra work and anxiety.

Lol you should have seen the time i tried it on seedlings…. My god not a good idea. Thats the reason im bald

It aure dod it jib though. And used at half dose after stretch really did fatten the buds ip

 

[Max]

Massive….An Aussie brand.

 

[Observer]

Auxins and gibberellins in seaweed, can also cause extra elongation

 

[Mars_Barz]

What are your goals? There are many ways to skin a cat.

Hardness? Growth? Terps and flavonoids?

Hmm, well all of those mentioned are "goals" so as to speak lol. I'm a newer-ish grower so you'll have to pardon my ignorance.

I've done a lot of research on these forums about how to grow plants, what to add to them, etc. and a lot of that research has indicated (from others) that 'bud hardeners' 'bloom boosters' etc. are unnecessary products that produce negligible, if otherwise unnoticeable results. Therefore I found it interesting that my local hydro shop is making the claim that the seaweed product hardens the bud.

At days end though, I'm trying to create a fantastic product, not so interested in size/yield of the bud. I'm planning to invest in a bigger & better space once I get accustomed to the basics here.

 

[CannaGranny]

Hmm, well all of those mentioned are "goals" so as to speak lol. I'm a newer-ish grower so you'll have to pardon my ignorance.

I've done a lot of research on these forums about how to grow plants, what to add to them, etc. and a lot of that research has indicated (from others) that 'bud hardeners' 'bloom boosters' etc. are unnecessary products that produce negligible, if otherwise unnoticeable results. Therefore I found it interesting that my local hydro shop is making the claim that the seaweed product hardens the bud.

At days end though, I'm trying to create a fantastic product, not so interested in size/yield of the bud. I'm planning to invest in a bigger & better space once I get accustomed to the basics here.

Always remember, be it the local hydro shop or a pool company they are in the business of selling chemicals.

 

[Aqua Man]

Hmm, well all of those mentioned are "goals" so as to speak lol. I'm a newer-ish grower so you'll have to pardon my ignorance.

I've done a lot of research on these forums about how to grow plants, what to add to them, etc. and a lot of that research has indicated (from others) that 'bud hardeners' 'bloom boosters' etc. are unnecessary products that produce negligible, if otherwise unnoticeable results. Therefore I found it interesting that my local hydro shop is making the claim that the seaweed product hardens the bud.

At days end though, I'm trying to create a fantastic product, not so interested in size/yield of the bud. I'm planning to invest in a bigger & better space once I get accustomed to the basics here.

It used to be a running joke to say “hydro shop guy says what?” Now there are some good ones out there but IME far and few between. As @CannaGranny said they are there to sell. Just like car salesman.

From someone that has no benefit to lie to you, this is my suggestion. The more things you add the more likely you are to mess up your grow. Further to that i feel like you should keep it simple and establish a baseline so you know what that looks like. Otherwise you will not know what products are benefiting you and which are not.

There are so many magic snake oils in a bottle it will make your head spin. Many of them contain the same things in slightly different ratio and imho you will have the most success with a simple compete base nutrient.

Terps and flavonoids biggest impact is a proper dry and cure. No additive will do more than that.

What are you using right now?

 

[Aqua Man]

Silica will make hard buds but you add that and it can have effects on nutrient profiles and pH depending on the source used in the additives.

But honestly the more things you add the more complex the grow becomes and greatly increases you chances if creating issues.

If you want some help walking through your nutrients and what additives may actually benefit you in what ratios then i can help with that but simple is best and the first goal of growing is to successfully complete a good grow. Thats the honest truth

 

[Max]

I’m starting to think the silica I use isn’t doing the job.a couple years back I was running a different strain same silica and they were hard as but with Jeff’s gear I havnt had it ,and I have to stake too .it’s not falling out with no jell at bottom of container mixing it first.i don’t start with it till week 4 veg then up to week 7-8 flower..I basically only use it to make the cell walls harder to stop mold grabbing hold…oh and as a buffer

 

[Aqua Man]

I’m starting to think the silica I use isn’t doing the job.a couple years back I was running a different strain same silica and they were hard as but with Jeff’s gear I havnt had it ,and I have to stake too .it’s not falling out with no jell at bottom of container mixing it first.i don’t start with it till week 4 veg then up to week 7-8 flower..I basically only use it to make the cell walls harder to stop mold grabbing hold…oh and as a buffer

Your observations are bang on and genetics does play a big role also. Some strains just produced denser buds. We need to remember that these plants produce their own PGRs that are responsible for the structure of the plants. All we are doing is manipulating them when we add our own.

Temp differential, light spectrum are also a couple ways we can manipulate plant and bud structure.

Now in order to manipulate things to oir benefit we should know what a baseline is on that plants to know what we want to manipulate in the first place. Thats just my opinion

 

[Max]

I use to use the plants own stimulant in auxins for a very long time growing outside ,just basically bending and training the plant to grow horizontal .the auxins go to the dark side of the branch and the branch would elongate on that dark side.it actually sped up growth…so auxins would b a pgr aqua.

 

[Aqua Man]

I use to use the plants own stimulant in auxins for a very long time growing outside ,just basically bending and training the plant to grow horizontal .the auxins would go to the dark side of the branch and the branch would elongate on that dark side.it actually sped up growth…so auxins would b a pgr aqua.

Yup they are. Thats promotes what called shade avoidance and that how a plant competes against other plants in nature. So the parts in the shade elongate to grow taller than the other plants around it competing for sunlight

 

[Aqua Man]

Its actually a ratio of red and far red the plant receives. That how a plant can tell and respond to survive. As growers we try to take advantage of plant responses for our benefit. You can manipulate many many things. But not always beneficial to do so even if we can and timing is everything.

The plants produce PGRs based off n drought, light, physical damage, temp, humidity, etc etc etc. when we add PGRs essentially we are fooling the plant into thinking a stress is in play that may not be and it responds accordingly to the chemical signals among others

Some info here.

The Shade Avoidance Syndrome in Arabidopsis: The Antagonistic Role of Phytochrome A and B Differentiates Vegetation Proximity and Canopy Shade

Light limitation caused by dense vegetation is one of the greatest threats to plant survival in natural environments. Plants detect such neighboring vegetation as a reduction in the red to far-red ratio (R:FR) of the incoming light. The low R:FR signal, perceived by phytochromes, initiates a set...

journals.plos.org

 

[CannaGranny]

Silica will make hard buds but you add that and it can have effects on nutrient profiles and pH depending on the source used in the additives.

But honestly the more things you add the more complex the grow becomes and greatly increases you chances if creating issues.

If you want some help walking through your nutrients and what additives may actually benefit you in what ratios then i can help with that but simple is best and the first goal of growing is to successfully complete a good grow. Thats the honest truth

Already he has come out swinging! I mean look at his first time grow, definitely blessed with a green thumb. His leaves show zero deficiencies and I think until they tell him they need something..well sometimes things are best left alone.
I understand his need to learn and the feeling that he needs to feed. The way he is growing he needs to accept that the soil is feeding his plants. Keep feeding the soil with organic amendments and teas and rock on!