Deficiency or Nute burn

[smoke]

This is from my last grow
Started to see what i thought was a calcium def around week 1 of flower. Heres a picture at day 14 of flower feeding at 340 ppm 700 scale or 250 tds on the 500 scale. Tips showing what i thought was cal def because they haven't bean above 380 ppm and 180 of that is calmag @ 3 ml/g. My wife said nute burn, i thought "no way "
Here she is at day 46 with ppms at 420
I think now it was maybe a potassium def but im not sure because calcium still fits the time line.

What say you?

 

[Moshmen]

This is from my last grow
Started to see what i thought was a calcium def around week 1 of flower. Heres a picture at day 14 of flower feeding at 340 ppm 700 scale or 250 tds on the 500 scale. Tips showing what i thought was cal def because they haven't bean above 380 ppm and 180 of that is calmag @ 3 ml/g. My wife said nute burn, i thought "no way "View attachment 17
Here she is at day 46 with ppms at 420View attachment 18
I think now it was maybe a potassium def but im not sure because calcium still fits the time line.

What say you?

I get tip burn when I overfeed bloom nutes, p inparticular- I’m a lite feeder too - never over a 1000 ppm for me

 

[moe.red]

Does not look like classic calcium to me. Any rust spots or just the tips going white and curling up?

 

[smoke]

I get tip burn when I overfeed bloom nutes, p inparticular- I’m a lite feeder too - never over a 1000 ppm for me

High Mosh, when you say 1000 ppm, i assume thats the 500 scale.

On the 500 scale im feeding at 250 ppm (TDS)

 

[smoke]

Does not look like classic calcium to me. Any rust spots or just the tips going white and curling up

Moving to the flower room, i think i left them in the flower room for 3 days befor i flipped to flower (if i flipped to flower today, tomorrow is the first full day of flower and I count that as day 1)
Random picture


I'm not so sure it was calcium either, my starting water always has 3ml/gal when the white tips (always a sign to me in past wanting c) and i upped to 4.

Could i be feeding too heavy?

 

[steamroller]

This was posted the other day.
Pics and specific issues are after first half.
This Def. link was new to me so thought I would share.

Foliar Symptomology, Nutrient Content, Yield, and Secondary Metabolite Variability of Cannabis Grown Hydroponically with Different Single-Element Nutrient Deficiencies - PMC

In controlled environment production systems, Cannabis sativa (hereafter cannabis) is a commodity with high nutrient demands due to prolific growth under optimized environmental conditions. Since nutrient deficiencies can reduce yield and quality, ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I kept for future need.

 

[moe.red]

Could i be feeding too heavy?

Not likely.

This is a past grow, correct? Not in a position to try things here I don't believe.

 

[smoke]

Not likely.

This is a past grow, correct? Not in a position to try things here I don't believe.

It was a sarcastic question.
Yes it was my last grow, just has me baffled. And i do think it was nute burn, or feeding too heavy, but how can that be?

 

[moe.red]

It was a sarcastic question.
Yes it was my last grow, just has me baffled. And i do think it was nute burn, or feeding too heavy, but how can that be?

I don't get it.

If this were my active grow, I would be looking at things like brix on those leaves in comparison to others. There are ways you can measure nutes from sap too. PH, EC, all a thing you can do.

I feel like we need more data to nail this down. If it happens again on your next grow, I'll go thru it with you and try to help you figure something out.

 

[Anthem275]

It was a sarcastic question.
Yes it was my last grow, just has me baffled. And i do think it was nute burn, or feeding too heavy, but how can that be?

Smoke, that looks like a lack of K in the nutrients. If you take a look at Moulders Chart you will see how many different elements are antagonized by Calcium. Most Cal Mag products have some form of Nitrogen in the bottle that would probable take care of the N portion required by the plant. P is not in as high of demand at K. But I believe if you do some digging you might find you have both P&K Def. I went back to Moulders Chart to take a look Calcium and P they are both antagonistic with each other. I am pretty dam sure those pictures shoe a K def. Make sure you are not seeing an P deficiency as well.
There are a few ways you could solve the problems, remember Calcium needs taper after week 3 of flower. You could start to decrease the calmag and increase base flower nutrients. Secondly you could look at adding in a PK booster in small amounts. It is hard to figure this stuff out. I will PM you one other solution that would provide the exact problem but it is not something I have tell to the world because they will shut it down if they get too many requests.

 

[moe.red]

Smoke, that looks like a lack of K in the nutrients. If you take a look at Moulders Chart you will see how many different elements are antagonized by Calcium. Most Cal Mag products have some form of Nitrogen in the bottle that would probable take care of the N portion required by the plant. P is not in as high of demand at K. But I believe if you do some digging you might find you have both P&K Def. I went back to Moulders Chart to take a look Calcium and P they are both antagonistic with each other. I am pretty dam sure those pictures shoe a K def. Make sure you are not seeing an P deficiency as well.
There are a few ways you could solve the problems, remember Calcium needs taper after week 3 of flower. You could start to decrease the calmag and increase base flower nutrients. Secondly you could look at adding in a PK booster in small amounts. It is hard to figure this stuff out. I will PM you one other solution that would provide the exact problem but it is not something I have tell to the world because they will shut it down if they get too many requests.

I think I know what you are gonna tell him. Kinda where I was headed too.

I cannot find a K def photo that looks like smoke's leaves. I've never been overly successful with or trusting of photos or worse yet - fuzzy cartoons that people use to figure out deficiencies like this one:

https://dutch-passion.com/img/cms/Blogs/cannabis-nutrient-deficiencies-and-excesses-chart.jpg

Based on Smoke's pics and that chart, does not look like K to me. But it absolutely could be. I agree with your assesment of Mulder's.


I always thought that a series of high res photos of confirmed excess/deficiencies as lab tested would be a huge step in the right direction for us home growers. I might do that some day.

 

[Anthem275]

I think I know what you are gonna tell him. Kinda where I was headed too.

I cannot find a K def photo that looks like smoke's leaves. I've never been overly successful with or trusting of photos or worse yet - fuzzy cartoons that people use to figure out deficiencies like this one:

https://dutch-passion.com/img/cms/Blogs/cannabis-nutrient-deficiencies-and-excesses-chart.jpg

Based on Smoke's pics and that chart, does not look like K to me. But it absolutely could be. I agree with your assesment of Mulder's.


I always thought that a series of high res photos of confirmed excess/deficiencies as lab tested would be a huge step in the right direction for us home growers. I might do that some day.

Take a look at the photo content Steamroller posted above. In. the second half of the paper it shows some well documented photos of plants and DEF. It would be difficult for the plant to get enough P&K with the information provided.

 

[Anthem275]

Moving to the flower room, i think i left them in the flower room for 3 days befor i flipped to flower (if i flipped to flower today, tomorrow is the first full day of flower and I count that as day 1)View attachment 22
Random picture View attachment 23
View attachment 25View attachment 26

I'm not so sure it was calcium either, my starting water always has 3ml/gal when the white tips (always a sign to me in past wanting c) and i upped to 4.

Could i be feeding too heavy?

Smoke can you give a general assessment of how the lower fan leaves do as the growth progresses?

 

[moe.red]

Take a look at the photo content Steamroller posted above. In. the second half of the paper it shows some well documented photos of plants and DEF. It would be difficult for the plant to get enough P&K with the information provided.

I think it is easier to see side by side:


Phosphorus



Potassium



Smoke:

Looking at those white tips curling up (first 3 in smoke's pic) but the rest of the leaf looks normal does and not match the images from the paper Steam linked, IMHO. Both P and K show significant leaf damage and not white curled tips only. Pic E for Phosphorus shows entire leaves curled and white tho.

So many variables.

All of Smoke's pics are only tip / edge damage.

 

[Anthem275]

I think it is easier to see side by side:


Phosphorus

View attachment 64

Potassium

View attachment 65

Smoke:

Looking at those white tips curling up (first 3 in smoke's pic) but the rest of the leaf looks normal does and not match the images from the paper Steam linked, IMHO. Both P and K show significant leaf damage and not white curled tips only. Pic E for Phosphorus shows entire leaves curled and white tho.

So many variables.

All of Smoke's pics are only tip / edge damage.

The day 17 and day 20 photos have some similarities to the lower fan leaves of photo C from the def chart. Lets see what smoke has to say about his lower fan leaves thru out the grow. That will tell a lot because he is under hps and the nutrients in question are mobile.

 

[moe.red]

Hey Smoke, if you got the time and the inclination, post up all the pics you have for this grow, preferably in chronological order and we will try to learn something here.

 

[steamroller]

What I found most helpful if at all about that link was the week by week pics.
The guides with drawings send me.
Here is what I learned with fish; not all identical issues present the same.
Someone would say what is this and I would reply "X" and they would say it doesn't look like it.
I never argued and only backed my advice if I thought I could convince them.
Point is not all issues look exactly like its picture.
I am going with K and here is my similar picture from one of my other def guides.

I see the tip, the edge and the slight yellowing.
I think smoke held the issue at bay but still saw it was around the corner.

 

[smoke]

Hey Smoke, if you got the time and the inclination, post up all the pics you have for this grow, preferably in chronological order and we will try to learn something here.

 

[smoke]

Sorry for the doubles

 

[smoke]

I think it is easier to see side by side:


Phosphorus

View attachment 64

Potassium

View attachment 65

Smoke:

Looking at those white tips curling up (first 3 in smoke's pic) but the rest of the leaf looks normal does and not match the images from the paper Steam linked, IMHO. Both P and K show significant leaf damage and not white curled tips only. Pic E for Phosphorus shows entire leaves curled and white tho.

So many variables.

All of Smoke's pics are only tip / edge damage.

Exactly only the tips. If you just showed those pictures to someone it's almost a automatic nute burn answer

 

[Moshmen]

What u growin in again ? How big are the containers - just curious how often ya normally water to much dry back in coco or soil will mimic a lot of different symptoms.

 

[smoke]

What u growin in again ? How big are the containers - just curious how often ya normally water to much dry back in coco or soil will mimic a lot of different symptoms.

Growing RDWC Mosh

13 gal containers

 

[Moshmen]

Growing RDWC Mosh

13 gal containers

Oh shit I’m out ! Lol that’s strange for sure

 

[smoke]

Oh shit I’m out ! Lol that’s strange for sure

You should come over to the dark side, or at least stick your toe in the water you might just like it

 

[smoke]

Just to see if full size is better than thumbnail. Looking for white tips

 

[moe.red]

They look identical to me. OK, not great.

Are they sharp on your end before posting?

 

[smoke]

They look identical to me. OK, not great.

Are they sharp on your end before posting?

No not any sharper. Splitting hairs

 

[moe.red]

No not any sharper.

OK so maybe that pic thing is fixed now with the changes I made. I'll do some testing tonight.

 

[Moshmen]

OK so maybe that pic thing is fixed now with the changes I made. I'll do some testing tonight.

Misc photo just to ck it - looks like they came thru just as clear as the original

 

[GrumpAzz]

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HOLY SHIT that's a lot of buds on that beast!