Drought Stress

[Rootsruler]

I looked around and didn't really get a definitive answer. The phrase pretty much explains what it is but at what level is 'drought stress" attained? Wilted leaves or even harder stress?

 

[steamroller]

Drought stress is one of my favorites.
What could be more natural and randomly occurring?
I wait like most to see a little wilt, if I am comfortable with my control over the environment I let them go 1 day past looking like they need water.
That usually in my case gets me a very wilted make you nervous plant that bounces back like nothing the next day.
For me drought is my favorite because all it requires is less.
Not more.
Easy peasy for a real slacker, and the plants love it too~!

 

[Rootsruler]

Drought stress is one of my favorites.
What could be more natural and randomly occurring?
I wait like most to see a little wilt, if I am comfortable with my control over the environment I let them go 1 day past looking like they need water.
That usually in my case gets me a very wilted make you nervous plant that bounces back like nothing the next day.
For me drought is my favorite because all it requires is less.
Not more.
Easy peasy for a real slacker, and the plants love it too~!

Awesome! So a day after wilt would be considered drought stress?

 

[steamroller]

Awesome! So a day after wilt would be considered drought stress?

Honestly I don't know others timing.
But I will say on some of my late watering experiences I could not have gone a day longer without possible loss.
I would imagine there is some gain without being as drastic as I go?

 

[Rootsruler]

Honestly I don't know others timing.
But I will say on some of my late watering experiences I could not have gone a day longer without possible loss.
I would imagine there is some gain without being as drastic as I go?

I'm currently feeding the girls on an every other day basis so I can pretty much time when they're going to wilt. Maybe give them an extra day of dryback? They're pretty big now so they should have a good amount of water in them to survive although I don't want to stunt them either.

 

[Anthem275]

Drought stressing the plant is one of the factors used when you are crop steering the plant. I want to say Arroyo and Growlink both do this the first 2 weeks of flower but I have to go back and take another look as some data.

 

[smoke]

Drought stressing the plant is one of the factors used when you are crop steering the plant. I want to say Arroyo and Growlink both do this the first 2 weeks of flower but I have to go back and take another look as some data.

Wasn't dirt bag doing what he called dry back period as a form of crop steering?

 

[Anthem275]

Wasn't dirt bag doing what he called dry back period as a form of crop steering?

There might be some confusion about dry backs and crop steering. I believe the thread you are referring to was a grow DB did in Rock Wool. I have to say before we get too far into this, I have never flowered plants in Rock Wool but I do have a good understanding of how it works. Rock Wool has a very high field capacity. Meaning it has a very high water content when it is at field capacity. With such a high water content or field capacity it is difficult for air or ideally oxygen to get to the root system. This is where drybacks come into play. There needs to be a balance between water content and oxygen available to the root system.
The idea is to get enough water and nutrients to the plant but also allow enough oxygen to get into the root zone. Most current rec or commercial grows in my area use Rock Wool. It has benefits but can also be a challenge. Clean up and replant times are much less labor intensive. Also there is less material to dispose of when the grow is complete. These systems typically employee high pressure and pressure accurate pumps, dosatrons and moisture probes thru out the grow room to insure accurate water content.

Drybacks are basically a balancing act. The grower will typically not water when lights are out and wait about 90 minutes once lights are back on to water. There will be a longer first watering typically, followed by many shorter shots to keep water in the rock wool but also allow air to enter the block.
From what I understand most of the drought stressing occurs in early flower. Week 1-2.

 

[steamroller]

I only was/ am brave enough to use my technique with plants in veg or very early flower.
I would not be as bold if there was good buds forming.
Maybe just me? Also only in soil for me.
In veg and early flower any mis hap [ getting too dry ] usually only cost a couple leaves.

 

[tobh]

Drought stressing the plant is one of the factors used when you are crop steering the plant. I want to say Arroyo and Growlink both do this the first 2 weeks of flower but I have to go back and take another look as some data.

correct, kinda. the schedule i base my steering schedule on is from arroyo, and drought stress is introduced during the first two weeks of flower, then again at week 5-6. they call it the "vegetative cycle," whereas the rest of the time is "generative cycle."

given I know you know your shit Anthem, the rest of this is for others edification. When engaging in such practices as drought stress, including crop steering, the objective is to manipulate the EC and water pressures at the root zone. This triggers various hormonal responses in the plant, which influences the plant's responses. Higher EC as a result of a scarcity of water stresses the plant into thinking "shit, i'm running out of lifeblood, better hurry up and finish procreating," vs a lower EC with an abundance of water makes the plant think "cool cool. lemme through some leaves, grow big, be content. i've got time." here are the charts I used last run. crop steering can be applied in most medias, but it was developed specifically for practice in rockwool due to rockwool's characteristics.

vegetative cycle

generative cycle


by carefully timing these episodes of stress, in conjunction with other methods such as defoliation, a grower can predictably and effectively increase yield and potency.







I can write more about this technique, and really dive deep if there's interest. I spent months researching how to perform it prior to diving in. I have this full grow documented at the farm, and trust I plan on scraping all the content from that thread because of the value it has for me personally.

 

[Rootsruler]

If you're willing I'd love to see this info in more detail.

 

[tobh]

If you're willing I'd love to see this info in more detail.

imma long winded chud, so it'll take some time. i'll start drafting up an article though.

the companies that make the controllers to do steering automatically are pretty tight lipped about the science and the methodology (which is bullshit, but typical of commercial ventures) so i'll do the best i can to explain it per my understanding.

 

[MDK]

Yea post that stuff up for sure

 

[Rootsruler]

imma long winded chud, so it'll take some time. i'll start drafting up an article though.

the companies that make the controllers to do steering automatically are pretty tight lipped about the science and the methodology (which is bullshit, but typical of commercial ventures) so i'll do the best i can to explain it per my understanding.

More than happy to devote whatever time it takes to absorb it all if you're willing to dish it out!!!!

 

[Observer]

correct, kinda. the schedule i base my steering schedule on is from arroyo, and drought stress is introduced during the first two weeks of flower, then again at week 5-6. they call it the "vegetative cycle," whereas the rest of the time is "generative cycle."

given I know you know your shit Anthem, the rest of this is for others edification. When engaging in such practices as drought stress, including crop steering, the objective is to manipulate the EC and water pressures at the root zone. This triggers various hormonal responses in the plant, which influences the plant's responses. Higher EC as a result of a scarcity of water stresses the plant into thinking "shit, i'm running out of lifeblood, better hurry up and finish procreating," vs a lower EC with an abundance of water makes the plant think "cool cool. lemme through some leaves, grow big, be content. i've got time." here are the charts I used last run. crop steering can be applied in most medias, but it was developed specifically for practice in rockwool due to rockwool's characteristics.

vegetative cycle
View attachment 3785
generative cycle
View attachment 3786

by carefully timing these episodes of stress, in conjunction with other methods such as defoliation, a grower can predictably and effectively increase yield and potency.

View attachment 3787
View attachment 3788
View attachment 3789
View attachment 3790


I can write more about this technique, and really dive deep if there's interest. I spent months researching how to perform it prior to diving in. I have this full grow documented at the farm, and trust I plan on scraping all the content from that thread because of the value it has for me personally.

whats youre target water content?

 

[Observer]

I looked around and didn't really get a definitive answer. The phrase pretty much explains what it is but at what level is 'drought stress" attained? Wilted leaves or even harder stress?

its like dangling it right in front of its face just an inch out of reach

 

[tobh]

whats youre target water content?

Depends on growth stage. I started a more in depth article where I'll dig into the specifics of projected targets and those more intricate details. Figure now that I'm here I'll make y'all's eyes bleed

 

[Observer]

Depends on growth stage. I started a more in depth article where I'll dig into the specifics of projected targets and those more intricate details. Figure now that I'm here I'll make y'all's eyes bleed

Thanks, tobh.

 

[Max]

So crop steering would work best in the last half of the plants life Tobh ? signalling it to say ”.I aint got long to live now…along with reducing the nutes and plant fade..are you giving them less light or hammering them right till chop.

 

[tobh]

So crop steering would work best in the last half of the plants life Tobh ? signalling it to say ”.I aint got long to live now…along with reducing the nutes and plant fade..are you giving them less light or hammering them right till chop.

crop steering occurs in the flowering stage primarily. however, you can run the vegetative cycle through veg period if you want. it just won't yield any noticeable difference than running a regular schedule.

also keep in mind steering is only possible in rockwool and coco (to an extent, depending on how the coco is being used). you CANNOT do it in DWC, RDWC, F&D, NFT, most soilless medias, nor soil. the technique was originally developed by veggie farmers running in massive rockwool slabs, so that is the preferred media to use if one intends on utilizing the technique.

 

[Observer]

crop steering occurs in the flowering stage primarily. however, you can run the vegetative cycle through veg period if you want. it just won't yield any noticeable difference than running a regular schedule.

also keep in mind steering is only possible in rockwool and coco (to an extent, depending on how the coco is being used). you CANNOT do it in DWC, RDWC, F&D, NFT, most soilless medias, nor soil. the technique was originally developed by veggie farmers running in massive rockwool slabs, so that is the preferred media to use if one intends on utilizing the technique.

im kinda surprised veggie farmers were doing this

 

[tobh]

im kinda surprised veggie farmers were doing this

weed growers for decades thought cannabis was something special. it's not. it requires parameters very similar to nightshades and capsicums, both of which have been commercially produced hydroponically for at least fifty years, if not longer.

only over like that past ten years has the cannabis community really started to acknowledge that we (speaking as an overall community) have been trying to reinvent the wheel instead of doing the same boring shit other commodity crop farmers have been doing.

 

[Observer]

weed growers for decades thought cannabis was something special. it's not. it requires parameters very similar to nightshades and capsicums, both of which have been commercially produced hydroponically for at least fifty years, if not longer.

do they grow as fast?

only over like that past ten years has the cannabis community really started to acknowledge that we (speaking as an overall community) have been trying to reinvent the wheel instead of doing the same boring shit other commodity crop farmers have been doing.

yea we tend to do that lol

 

[tobh]

do they grow as fast?

nightshades (tomatos, eggplant, tomatillo, etc) grow very fast in the right conditions, and depending on variety. capsicums can be quite a bit slower, but in hydro they can grow incredibly fast too.

cucumbers, tomatoes, and bell peppers are all grown commercially hydroponically, and in cases where they use rockwool, are all subjected to crop steering. it has more application especially with tomatoes and cucs because they are able to revert back and forth between vegetative and generative multiple times to reap multiple harvests off the plants without having to start from seed again. That's why you'll see them using massive yo-yo lines hung from the ceiling and training the vines to go vertically. just lower the yo-yo a bit, harvest the fruit, coil the plant's stem/trunk around the base, and repeat all season long.

 

[Observer]

nightshades (tomatos, eggplant, tomatillo, etc) grow very fast in the right conditions, and depending on variety. capsicums can be quite a bit slower, but in hydro they can grow incredibly fast too.

cucumbers, tomatoes, and bell peppers are all grown commercially hydroponically, and in cases where they use rockwool, are all subjected to crop steering. it has more application especially with tomatoes and cucs because they are able to revert back and forth between vegetative and generative multiple times to reap multiple harvests off the plants without having to start from seed again. That's why you'll see them using massive yo-yo lines hung from the ceiling and training the vines to go vertically. just lower the yo-yo a bit, harvest the fruit, coil the plant's stem/trunk around the base, and repeat all season long.

ok cool, thanks for educating my ignorant ass lol.

First grew weed when i was 23, 26 now, had one successful run and then life stuff prevented me from furthering it.

got back into it last year when i got somewhat stable.

 

[Observer]

discovered i have an absolute fucking passion for it, and enjoying mycology as well.

i love learning, though.

 

[Rootsruler]

. That's why you'll see them using massive yo-yo lines hung from the ceiling and training the vines to go vertically. just lower the yo-yo a bit, harvest the fruit, coil the plant's stem/trunk around the base, and repeat all season long.

The gift that keeps on giving.......

Can cannabis be run like that year round as long as it's in a climate that doesn't freeze or overheat? For instance, in a controlled environment like a sealed hydro room where you are controlling all the parameters, would you be able to harvest the flowers off the plant and continue reflowering? As far as I understand it cannabis is a perennial plant so once it flowers it dies so that it can spread seed for next spring.

 

[tobh]

...cannabis is an annual plant...

You could theoretically reveg the plant but if you finish a run like I mentioned in the crop steering article, you likely won't get the plant to recover. I don't see cannabis responding the same way simply because of it's photosensitivity vs the veggies I mentioned flowering at maturity. In fact those veggies will actually fruit more prolifically if you harvest the fruits before they fall off naturally.

 

[Rootsruler]

You could theoretically reveg the plant but if you finish a run like I mentioned in the crop steering article, you likely won't get the plant to recover. I don't see cannabis responding the same way simply because of it's photosensitivity vs the veggies I mentioned flowering at maturity. In fact those veggies will actually fruit more prolifically if you harvest the fruits before they fall off naturally.

My bad....annual!!!

I see. So different hormonal responses through different triggers.....

 

[tobh]

My bad....annual!!!

I see. So different hormonal responses through different triggers.....

Precisely. Kinda like humans. When we hit puberty, we just wanna procreate -- that's the same as the veggies. Cannabis is a finicky bitch though and requires an environmental change to tell it to procreate.

@Aqua Man do you recall what the word is for photosensitive plants? Plants that flower based off decreasing light cycle... Cannabis isn't the only one and photosensitive isn't the term