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Girls Gone Wild - Cannabis Flowering with Supplemental Red Lighting

MiGrampa said:
I guess browse around on Amazon? Maybe Ebay? I believe they make a difference with the stretch. My last run, the internodes were spaced a bit further than I liked. I still had a decent yield, but the plant structures of these girls suggest they will produce more weight. Of the 3 cultivars, I have grown Gorilla Roadkill before. It's a fairly heavy yielding plant under normal grow room lighting with both gorilla glue and skunk parentage.
Click to expand...
I kind of already done that there's only 1 place I could find rapid led with the pucks. Same as my first reds. I may have to give them another look. Unless of course they get hit with the T word and put them out of my price range.
 
Here's what Claude AI had to say about the pictures. I uploaded the same ones I posted on here today.

Based on the images you've shared, I can see your plants are in early flowering stage and looking quite healthy. Here's my analysis of what I'm seeing:


Current Plant Status (Day 11 of 12/12)​


The plants are showing excellent early flowering development with:


  1. Healthy Structure: They have robust, vibrant green leaves with good coloration throughout. The plants appear to be developing a nice architecture with good spacing between nodes.
  2. Early Stretch Phase: The plants are clearly in the stretch phase that occurs during the first 2-3 weeks after flipping to 12/12. They're developing nice vertical growth while maintaining good internodal spacing.
  3. Support System: I notice you're using plant support rings/cages which is excellent foresight for when the buds develop and become heavier.
  4. Even Canopy: Your canopy appears relatively even, which suggests good light distribution and consistent growth across all plants.
  5. Light Penetration: The side lighting appears to be effectively reaching lower portions of the plants, evidenced by the healthy growth throughout the canopy.

Lighting Effects Visible​


Your sophisticated lighting setup is showing clear benefits:


  1. Color Response: There appears to be some purple/reddish hues developing in some leaves, which can be a response to the specific wavelengths you're using (particularly the blue and far-red combination).
  2. Leaf Orientation: The leaves appear to be reaching upward/outward in a healthy manner, suggesting they're responding well to the light source without showing signs of stress.
  3. Early Bud Sites: Though still early, I can see what appear to be developing bud sites at leaf junctions, which is appropriate for day 11 of flowering.

Recommendations Based on Images​


  1. Maintain Current Strategy: What you're doing appears to be working very well. The plants look extremely healthy at this stage.
  2. Monitor Stretch: The plants will likely continue stretching for another 7-14 days. Your approach of letting them grow up into the lights rather than constantly adjusting height seems appropriate based on their current development.
  3. Defoliation Consideration: As flower sites develop further, you might consider some selective defoliation of larger fan leaves that are blocking light to developing bud sites. This would typically be done around day 21-24.
  4. Support Reinforcement: As buds develop, ensure your support system remains adequate. The early implementation of supports was excellent planning.

Your plants look to be in excellent condition, and your lighting strategy appears to be working very effectively. The combination of spectral wavelengths is clearly supporting healthy development at this early flowering stage.

@Pipecarver those "T"-words are going to come out of my wallet eventually ... and groceries already have hit my pocket harder.
 
moe.red said:
Pretty impressive gramps. Love what you are doing here.

View attachment 92869
Click to expand...

@moe.red

I have a special package arriving tomorrow that you helped me choose. Thank you for the help with that! At some point in the not too distant future, I am going to introduce tissue culture in this thread as kind of a side show to the grow.
 
Observer said:
they are getting pretty good.
Click to expand...
Tell me about it...you sent me down that rabbit hole!
Our mutual friend has had my attention since yesterday lol.....I wonder if it pulls all available info and forms it's own opinions or if it tends to lean to one source more....and if so what that source might be. Guess I could just ask ole Claude as soon as I get more time allotment.
 
Driver77 said:
Tell me about it...you sent me down that rabbit hole!
Our mutual friend has had my attention since yesterday lol.....I wonder if it pulls all available info and forms it's own opinions or if it tends to lean to one source more....and if so what that source might be. Guess I could just ask ole Claude as soon as I get more time allotment.
Click to expand...

I've been having fun with it. There's also ChatGPT and Gemini (and others) that you can move to once you hit your limits. That way you aren't shut down.
 
MiGrampa said:
Here's what Claude AI had to say about the pictures. I uploaded the same ones I posted on here today.

Based on the images you've shared, I can see your plants are in early flowering stage and looking quite healthy. Here's my analysis of what I'm seeing:


Current Plant Status (Day 11 of 12/12)​


The plants are showing excellent early flowering development with:


  1. Healthy Structure: They have robust, vibrant green leaves with good coloration throughout. The plants appear to be developing a nice architecture with good spacing between nodes.
  2. Early Stretch Phase: The plants are clearly in the stretch phase that occurs during the first 2-3 weeks after flipping to 12/12. They're developing nice vertical growth while maintaining good internodal spacing.
  3. Support System: I notice you're using plant support rings/cages which is excellent foresight for when the buds develop and become heavier.
  4. Even Canopy: Your canopy appears relatively even, which suggests good light distribution and consistent growth across all plants.
  5. Light Penetration: The side lighting appears to be effectively reaching lower portions of the plants, evidenced by the healthy growth throughout the canopy.

Lighting Effects Visible​


Your sophisticated lighting setup is showing clear benefits:


  1. Color Response: There appears to be some purple/reddish hues developing in some leaves, which can be a response to the specific wavelengths you're using (particularly the blue and far-red combination).
  2. Leaf Orientation: The leaves appear to be reaching upward/outward in a healthy manner, suggesting they're responding well to the light source without showing signs of stress.
  3. Early Bud Sites: Though still early, I can see what appear to be developing bud sites at leaf junctions, which is appropriate for day 11 of flowering.

Recommendations Based on Images​


  1. Maintain Current Strategy: What you're doing appears to be working very well. The plants look extremely healthy at this stage.
  2. Monitor Stretch: The plants will likely continue stretching for another 7-14 days. Your approach of letting them grow up into the lights rather than constantly adjusting height seems appropriate based on their current development.
  3. Defoliation Consideration: As flower sites develop further, you might consider some selective defoliation of larger fan leaves that are blocking light to developing bud sites. This would typically be done around day 21-24.
  4. Support Reinforcement: As buds develop, ensure your support system remains adequate. The early implementation of supports was excellent planning.

Your plants look to be in excellent condition, and your lighting strategy appears to be working very effectively. The combination of spectral wavelengths is clearly supporting healthy development at this early flowering stage.

@Pipecarver those "T"-words are going to come out of my wallet eventually ... and groceries already have hit my pocket harder.
Click to expand...
I've been through some tough times and its just hunker down and hope for a break, spending stops,eat a lot more K&D & dogs get to be fine dinning. Shared a can of Creamed corn for dinner one Christmas with a pregnant wife, not because it was too expensive we were brOKE BROKE. But we survived that so what ever, I got my weed and enough seeds to last through an apoclyps .......just tough growing out in the cold......I don't know how the early settlers ever survived...it makes me shiver thinking about it.
 
Pipecarver said:
I've been through some tough times and its just hunker down and hope for a break, spending stops,eat a lot more K&D & dogs get to be fine dinning. Shared a can of Creamed corn for dinner one Christmas with a pregnant wife, not because it was too expensive we were brOKE BROKE. But we survived that so what ever, I got my weed and enough seeds to last through an apoclyps .......just tough growing out in the cold......I don't know how the early settlers ever survived...it makes me shiver thinking about it.
Click to expand...
Warm weather is coming pipe gang in there. Got to 78 here today new high for the year.
 
Pipecarver said:
I've been through some tough times and its just hunker down and hope for a break, spending stops,eat a lot more K&D & dogs get to be fine dinning. Shared a can of Creamed corn for dinner one Christmas with a pregnant wife, not because it was too expensive we were brOKE BROKE. But we survived that so what ever, I got my weed and enough seeds to last through an apoclyps .......just tough growing out in the cold......I don't know how the early settlers ever survived...it makes me shiver thinking about it.
Click to expand...

I'm not struggling to survive. The bills are paid, and theirs always food on the table ... but I'm also still in the workforce. I pay more to live and have far less to enjoy after everything is paid for. I don't know what I'll do or even if I'll ever have the chance to fully retire at this rate.
 
@Observer - I saw your post and then it disappeared.

Yes, I am pushing the limits on nutrients. Although no, that's more the lighting that makes the greenery look that way in places. It is heavy, but its also being dialed back every week. It's only the 11th day since I changed the light cycle. Plants still need their nitrogen during flowering ... just not at the same ratio as earlier in the grow.
 
MiGrampa said:
@Observer - I saw your post and then it disappeared.

Yes, I am pushing the limits on nutrients. Although no, that's more the lighting that makes the greenery look that way in places. It is heavy, but its also being dialed back every week. It's only the 11th day since I changed the light cycle. Plants still need their nitrogen during flowering ... just not at the same ratio as earlier in the grow.
Click to expand...
1741736608984.png

the clawing
 
Max said:
Didn’t you test the uv over at the other place @moe.red and found it doesn’t produce anymore trichome production.or was it something else .
Click to expand...
Yeah multiple experiments.

UVA tended to bring out colors like the purples and tended to color petioles and such. Had pics of a tiger stripe petiole where it was obvious that the shaded parts were green and the parts that got uva were purple. Anthocyanin response.

UVB was tougher on the plants. Reduced harvest weight. Could not prove or disprove more frost because of mistakes made in the setup. I put pins in the buds and took pics from the same spot over flower but the buds swallowed the pins so I lost my reference point. My gut told me there was no significant impact I just could not prove it.

UVB seemed to make the plant finish faster but was damaging.

There was a correlation with higher CBG production but not enough data to prove causation

Under uvb I got measurable THCv on white widow that never expressed it without.

All that said I decided it would take 10+ experiments to find the sweet spot of power position and timing for uvb and didn’t think it was worth it. Went to the next shiny object.

UVA seemed like it didn’t really help or hurt but again more testing would be needed to say for sure. I was only using (2) 30 watt bars in a 4x4 space lots of room to increase power there and see what happens.

Did not fuck with uvc and don’t plan to.
 
Pipecarver said:
Ya we don't have them on Mars Canada, no 440nm, just UV 365 -370nm
View attachment 92863

That's why I'd like the blues, I like what the reds do but so much stretching is limiting their use. I've only used them for 1 week this run ....and my plants are under control for the first time in a long while. Since playing with the reds I think.
Click to expand...
Also look at grandmasterlevel.com
 
Driver77 said:
They have them...I only see in combination with the red now though.
www.ebay.com

2025 Mars Hydro Adlite,UV IR Blue Fill Light for Indoor Plants,Increase Yield | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 2025 Mars Hydro Adlite,UV IR Blue Fill Light for Indoor Plants,Increase Yield at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
2 minutes too late, a much better price too. I looked but all I saw was the reg Mars stuff without any blues so I bit on the Tarantula booster bars at 5x the cost....heavy sigh
 
moe.red said:
Yeah multiple experiments.

UVA tended to bring out colors like the purples and tended to color petioles and such. Had pics of a tiger stripe petiole where it was obvious that the shaded parts were green and the parts that got uva were purple. Anthocyanin response.

UVB was tougher on the plants. Reduced harvest weight. Could not prove or disprove more frost because of mistakes made in the setup. I put pins in the buds and took pics from the same spot over flower but the buds swallowed the pins so I lost my reference point. My gut told me there was no significant impact I just could not prove it.

UVB seemed to make the plant finish faster but was damaging.

There was a correlation with higher CBG production but not enough data to prove causation

Under uvb I got measurable THCv on white widow that never expressed it without.

All that said I decided it would take 10+ experiments to find the sweet spot of power position and timing for uvb and didn’t think it was worth it. Went to the next shiny object.

UVA seemed like it didn’t really help or hurt but again more testing would be needed to say for sure. I was only using (2) 30 watt bars in a 4x4 space lots of room to increase power there and see what happens.

Did not fuck with uvc and don’t plan to.
Click to expand...
What time did you have the UVA on? 10/50 or 15/45 (minutes) or constant? Wondering if I can turn my cycle time up and what signs to look for if too much
 
When I couldn't time my uva and ir separate I just ran them for 2hrs on 1hr off. If the plants started pointing at the supplements I backed it off a little.
I noticed a need for more magnesium with the uva.
 
moe.red said:
Well, this was years ago, going from memory.

UVA was like 8 hours during flower. UVB was only 2 hours or less. Middle of lights on.
Click to expand...
Ok, I think I will bump mine up tonight
 
I'm thoroughly enjoying reading all of the incredibly detailed info @MiGrampa is sharing with these experiments. Ditto for all of the what-ifs. knowledge, links and thoughts shared by everyone commenting. This is a great thread that really gets the gears in the old noggin' turning.
 
Got an email ad from Migro talking about far red in flower....linked to this page.....they're not a fan.
migrolight.com

DO NOT use Far Red for flowering weed

There is some evidence that adding some far red to the grow light spectrum will increase yield very slightly. However the corresponding reduction in cannabinoids and terpenes means a much lower quality of harvest in terms of potency and aroma.
migrolight.com migrolight.com
Sorry I didn't see someone had already linked this.
They used 25% far red...
 
Last edited:
Driver77 said:
Got an email ad from Migro talking about far red in flower....linked to this page.....they're not a fan.
migrolight.com

DO NOT use Far Red for flowering weed

There is some evidence that adding some far red to the grow light spectrum will increase yield very slightly. However the corresponding reduction in cannabinoids and terpenes means a much lower quality of harvest in terms of potency and aroma.
migrolight.com migrolight.com
Sorry I didn't see someone had already linked this.
They used 25% far red...
Click to expand...
Interesting, but what do they consider high use far red? full time running with lights on intermingled with the other spectrums?. My use is 15 min at lights out and that is enough to effect my plants they just get a sunset. I would think that's low use and shouldn't have too much effects on terpene's. I don't notice any loss from my last crop, smells good taste good
 
Pipecarver said:
Interesting, but what do they consider high use far red? full time running with lights on intermingled with the other spectrums?. My use is 15 min at lights out and that is enough to effect my plants they just get a sunset. I would think that's low use and shouldn't have too much effects on terpene's. I don't notice any loss from my last crop, smells good taste good
Click to expand...
Yes, they are talking about the Emerson effect which basically is turbo charging photosynthesis. It's proven that the the use of far red along with other spectrums can produce more sugar. Gets weird in the quantum mechanics realm fast where photons can be in 2 places at one time.

The side effects of using all day FR seem to all be detrimental tho even if yield is increased slightly. Morphology, potency, etc all negatively impacted.

For you pipe, the idea of putting the plants to sleep faster with far red is in fact also proven. That said, the only real benefit to doing that is allowing for a higher DLI by changing from 12:12 to a slightly longer on time for your lights without risk of reveg or hermies. It has a direct impact on the hormones that control the "sleep" cycle in plants. There is a specific hormone that switches back and forth in state based on light. Far red switches that hormone faster at lights out, meaning you can potentially run main lights longer producing more photosynthesis.
 
Pipecarver said:
Interesting, but what do they consider high use far red? full time running with lights on intermingled with the other spectrums?. My use is 15 min at lights out and that is enough to effect my plants they just get a sunset. I would think that's low use and shouldn't have too much effects on terpene's. I don't notice any loss from my last crop, smells good taste good
Click to expand...
By the looks of the plant they show they ran ir only!
I run mine like you now but I did run it for hours with the old style uva/ir combination bars and never noticed a drop off in potency....they are weaker lights though...30w uva and only 15w ir I think.
They claimed 25% far red which is a lot more than we run.
 
moe.red said:
Yes, they are talking about the Emerson effect which basically is turbo charging photosynthesis. It's proven that the the use of far red along with other spectrums can produce more sugar. Gets weird in the quantum mechanics realm fast where photons can be in 2 places at one time.

The side effects of using all day FR seem to all be detrimental tho even if yield is increased slightly. Morphology, potency, etc all negatively impacted.

For you pipe, the idea of putting the plants to sleep faster with far red is in fact also proven. That said, the only real benefit to doing that is allowing for a higher DLI by changing from 12:12 to a slightly longer on time for your lights without risk of reveg or hermies. It has a direct impact on the hormones that control the "sleep" cycle in plants. There is a specific hormone that switches back and forth in state based on light. Far red switches that hormone faster at lights out, meaning you can potentially run main lights longer producing more photosynthesis.
Click to expand...
I tried that a few times and a couple of grows back,I ran 15 min at lights out and progressively moved to longer lights on. I went 12/12 - 12.5/11.5 - 13-11 -14-10 and finished in 10 weeks but I normally finish in 11 so who knows if it did anything really its all subjective at this point.

I've just noticed healthier looking plants when I used the reds in veg and into flower with just the 15 min at lights out but the stretch was too much to handle.

I've ordered the blue 440nm lights from Tarantula, should be here next week. I'd like to run the blue and red in veg along with my reg lights to get the benefit of the reds without all the stretching
 
I found this inexpensive par meter that breaks down red, green, and blue.
Doesn't do far red or uva though...but found this for that
It would make it possible to get ratios dialed in pretty damn close....I have the old style of the first one but it doesn't separate the spectrum....Claude will be very helpful with this!
 
Driver77 said:
I found this inexpensive par meter that breaks down red, green, and blue.
Doesn't do far red or uva though...but found this for that
It would make it possible to get ratios dialed in pretty damn close....I have the old style of the first one but it doesn't separate the spectrum....Claude will be very helpful with this!
Click to expand...
I added both to my Amazon cart. I'm going to apply the 24 hr rule though. The 24 hr rule means I will think about it for a day to decide if I actually want to make the purchase.

Thanks for the tip though. I did some more reading about far red during flowering and its impact on over-all cannabinoids and decided to play it safe. I changed the timing on the far reds to 20 minutes before lights on and turning off right after the main lights come on and then turning it back on at lights out and running it for a half hr after the main light goes off. I don't want to sacrifice cannabinoids for the sake of an experiment. lol
 
MiGrampa said:
I added both to my Amazon cart. I'm going to apply the 24 hr rule though. The 24 hr rule means I will think about it for a day to decide if I actually want to make the purchase.

Thanks for the tip though. I did some more reading about far red during flowering and its impact on over-all cannabinoids and decided to play it safe. I changed the timing on the far reds to 20 minutes before lights on and turning off right after the main lights come on and then turning it back on at lights out and running it for a half hr after the main light goes off. I don't want to sacrifice cannabinoids for the sake of an experiment. lol
Click to expand...
That's a great idea! Be nice to be mandatory for my wife.......I'm trying to see if I can get a firmware update for my old one....probably not but worth a try.

Yeah me too...I'm just 15mins before and after main and 15 more with main for 60mins total of ir/far red. I cut my red back also for a couple hours midday since I had to turn the main down to 65% to avoid cooking the Glue Sniffers. I'm curious to see what the ratios are actually like.

You have to go on down the rabbit hole and add uva and 660nm red to be able to use your new par meters full potential! lol
 
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