How to choose the right PPM for a plant

[ZombieRider]

Hello! I am in week 4 of flower and my two candyclysm girls seem to be hungrier than the peyote wifi lass. So i'd like to increase the PPM's a bit (Im at 550ppm I wanna increase to 600ish). If I just add some more Micro and keep the rest of the recipe the same, could I risk nutrient lockout by messing up the ratio? How do we know what is too much of one element vs the other before lockout?

Here is the current recipe Im using for mid bloom. Im on 40ppm well water

8ml calimagic
10ml micro
2ml grow
22ml bloom
10ml diamond nectar
yucca/great white.

I figure adding say 2 ml more of Micro or Grow would give my leaves more N like they seem to need.
View attachment cosmic_river_hemp_hunt.mp4

 

[moe.red]

Those nute numbers are per gallon?

Are you watering multiple times a day?

How old is your Diamond Nectar? The new bottles they got rid of humic acid, the only real reason to use this



I would say at 10/2/22 you are out of balance. You are early enough in flower that the N still needs to be going in. And if your Diamond does not list humic on the label, I would stop using it personally.

I'm not sure you need more PPM, just the right ones, and possibly mess with your watering schedule a bit. Coco really needs it multiple times a day IMO. I've seen people post 10X per day water cycles.

 

[ZombieRider]

Those nute numbers are per gallon?

Are you watering multiple times a day?

How old is your Diamond Nectar? The new bottles they got rid of humic acid, the only real reason to use this



I would say at 10/2/22 you are out of balance. You are early enough in flower that the N still needs to be going in. And if your Diamond does not list humic on the label, I would stop using it personally.

I'm not sure you need more PPM, just the right ones, and possibly mess with your watering schedule a bit. Coco really needs it multiple times a day IMO. I've seen people post 10X per day water cycles.

Yup its ml per gallon. Also yup Im watering multiple times a day. Im in two gallon pots so im up to 4x a day now and expect to be at least 8x a day watering by the end. I could do more frequent, less volume watering and see if they prefer that in some way since they arent 100% in generative growth yet.

And I gotcha on the PPM not needing increasing just a rebalance of NER. I will take out some Bloom and add back some more Micro and Grow. Something like 10/5/15.

And thats a Texas sized 10-4 on the Diamond Nectar, I am using it for the humic acid but if it doesnt have it then its pointless like you say. My bottle says the same as that, no humic acid listed just monopotassium phosphate. Do you use a humic acid and if so, which do you recommend?

 

[moe.red]

Yup its ml per gallon. Also yup Im watering multiple times a day. Im in two gallon pots so im up to 4x a day now and expect to be at least 8x a day watering by the end. I could do more frequent, less volume watering and see if they prefer that in some way since they arent 100% in generative growth yet.

And I gotcha on the PPM not needing increasing just a rebalance of NER. I will take out some Bloom and add back some more Micro and Grow. Something like 10/5/15.

And thats a Texas sized 10-4 on the Diamond Nectar, I am using it for the humic acid but if it doesnt have it then its pointless like you say. My bottle says the same as that, no humic acid listed just monopotassium phosphate. Do you use a humic acid and if so, which do you recommend?

I don’t have any idea why they did that.

I use mr fulvic. I do it because it makes sense this will help but have no personal data to support that belief.

Does it improve harvest? Could be.

Getting your nutes properly balanced definitely will help.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yup its ml per gallon. Also yup Im watering multiple times a day. Im in two gallon pots so im up to 4x a day now and expect to be at least 8x a day watering by the end. I could do more frequent, less volume watering and see if they prefer that in some way since they arent 100% in generative growth yet.

And I gotcha on the PPM not needing increasing just a rebalance of NER. I will take out some Bloom and add back some more Micro and Grow. Something like 10/5/15.

And thats a Texas sized 10-4 on the Diamond Nectar, I am using it for the humic acid but if it doesnt have it then its pointless like you say. My bottle says the same as that, no humic acid listed just monopotassium phosphate. Do you use a humic acid and if so, which do you recommend?

Thats ratio you can run to the end if you want.

Basically you get your ratios in line then feed concentration based on response to nitrogen. 600-800ppm imo. In hydro i dont think i had to run over 600. A lot will depend on the nutrient makeup and VPD.

 

[moe.red]

Hey @ZombieRider can you take a step back with that camera and show us the whole setup? Is this drain to waste or res? Pump timings?

If you want to post all your grow parameters you can watch Aqua and I duke it out over the best setpoints for everything. Temp RH lights water parameters you know the drill.

 

[ZombieRider]

Whats up! Thanks for the response @Moe.Red & @Aqua Man .

The girls are sleeping now so i will post a wider shot of my setup tomorrow.
In the meantime Ill post the parameters I can think of, lemme know what other ones you'd like to know to better give you an idea whats goin on.

im running drain to waste (am going to connect auto water but i have literally been hand watering 4x a day so far cuz im too lazy and busy to connect the bubbler and get the big res out and popping in 4x+ a day is fun and a good excuse to dip out lol.)

Scroggin
Not sure what my vpd is but i make sure the leaf temps are 74-77f
35 DLI (will go to 40 dli soon)
76f/55% rh (will gradually down to 70f/40% end of flower)
Ph 5.9-6.2
Res temp: 70-73ish
Great white for root+res health and yucca for the saponins/better saturation.
I will check out the mr fulvic as i like the idea of fulvic/humic acids

 

[ZombieRider]

Thats ratio you can run to the end if you want.

Basically you get your ratios in line then feed concentration based on response to nitrogen. 600-800ppm imo. In hydro i dont think i had to run over 600. A lot will depend on the nutrient makeup and VPD.

Awesomeness. So say i run the 10-5-15 all the way till harvest, i just add or take water away to adjust ppm's and keep ratio the same. Got it.

At the end of harvest im trying to use the epsom salt trick you recommended for more sulfur/terps/flavonoids. I wouldnt need to adjust the ratio's with the addition of epsom?

 

[MDK]

Epsom adds magnesium sulfate I believe so you may have to adjust micro nutes

 

[Max]

Magnesium sulphate helps with the burn.keeps that blunt lit..

 

[ZombieRider]

Epsom adds magnesium sulfate I believe so you may have to adjust micro nutes

Yeah i see micro has mag in it so will lower the micro for that week or 2 when im using epsom. Do you use epsom for the sulpher also? Yeah im excited to see how this grow turns out with added mag sulphate at the end since im reading how sulfur helps with flavor and like mad max is saying, with that clean burn.

 

[MDK]

Yeah i see micro has mag in it so will lower the micro for that week or 2 when im using epsom. Do you use epsom for the sulpher also? Yeah im excited to see how this grow turns out with added mag sulphate at the end since im reading how sulfur helps with flavor and like mad max is saying, with that clean burn.

Yea and I use gypsum for the calcium...you'd want powdered gypsum though as me and @Shaded had discussed the down to earth gypsum being pellets and time release...epsom salt with powdered gypsum and some rock dust (or Azomite) pretty much cover the micros

I've been reading in late flower sometimes the plants want more mag than cal...so you may be able to get away with the mix you use and just adding a little epsom on top of it...but not alot (def not the 1 tbsp per gal...maybe 25% or so) but definitely do your research a bit, I don't think you'd get lockout from just a slight bump in epsom but I'm new to using it myself

 

[ZombieRider]

Thats ratio you can run to the end if you want.

Basically you get your ratios in line then feed concentration based on response to nitrogen. 600-800ppm imo. In hydro i dont think i had to run over 600. A lot will depend on the nutrient makeup and VPD.

So you dont alter the ratio based on the growth stage? So 10-5-15 wouldnt be too much N during late flower?

 

[ZombieRider]

Yea and I use gypsum for the calcium...you'd want powdered gypsum though as me and @Shaded had discussed the down to earth gypsum being pellets and time release...epsom salt with powdered gypsum and some rock dust (or Azomite) pretty much cover the micros

I've been reading in late flower sometimes the plants want more mag than cal...so you may be able to get away with the mix you use and just adding a little epsom on top of it...but not alot (def not the 1 tbsp per gal...maybe 25% or so) but definitely do your research a bit, I don't think you'd get lockout from just a slight bump in epsom but I'm new to using it myself

So your using powdered gypsum, rock dust and epsom salt for your micros, not a pre-mixed nutrient like GH Micro? Thats cool cuz i do want to steer away from GH and try to find something i can tailor more for cannabis.Are you in coco also and what are you using for your PK?

 

[MDK]

I'm in soil. I'm pretty much using gaia green and the method put forth by shaded.

Gaia green all purpose for the N
Gaia green bloom for the PK

Gypsum
Epsom salt
Glacial rockdust or azomite for the micro nutes.

I don't know how it would work in coco I've never used it in there. I know you basically just top dress this in the soil every month (every month on the Gaia, every 2 weeks on the micro). You can essentially just water then. With coco though I know you water more frequent so I'm not sure how time release nutes would do in that system....may speed up the release and start burning your plants. I'm thinking GH is probably pretty good for coco, or most soluble readily available nutes but haven't experience so can't say for fact on anything coco.

 

[Aqua Man]

Awesomeness. So say i run the 10-5-15 all the way till harvest, i just add or take water away to adjust ppm's and keep ratio the same. Got it.

At the end of harvest im trying to use the epsom salt trick you recommended for more sulfur/terps/flavonoids. I wouldnt need to adjust the ratio's with the addition of epsom?

Nope would be good

 

[Pipecarver]

So your using powdered gypsum, rock dust and epsom salt for your micros, not a pre-mixed nutrient like GH Micro? Thats cool cuz i do want to steer away from GH and try to find something i can tailor more for cannabis.Are you in coco also and what are you using for your PK?

Hey, I use the GH nutes in soil and an ebb and flow system. in soil ( Promix) I keep the numbers the same all through veg of Micro/Grow/Bloom 3/3/3 early/4/4/4/ mid/5/5/5 late veg. I recently did Auto pots an ebb and flow system and I kept the numbers the same until I upped Bloom at week 3 and added Kool Bloom weeks 4-8. 5/5/10...5/5/10/ 1/3 tsp KB/..............in soil I'm using Floralicious Plus at 1 ml/gal through the grow.........In my auto pots I switched to Diamond Nectar from Floralicious because its cleaner. I'm also adding cal/mag starting week 3 -8 flower and a cleaner called Hyclean at 1ml/gal.....In ......at week 7
I fed my auto pots 3/3/10/1/4/4/1................. M/G/B/FL/CM/DN/Hy I dropped the Kool bloom.....................Tonight I'm dropping to 2/2/5/1/2/2/1 at 8 weeks feed to my reservoir

 

[ZombieRider]

Nope would be good

So I just mixed up a lil 4 gallon batch with 10/5/15 and the ppm's are only at 535. So to raise the concentration, I just put a couple more of each like 11/6/16? Still trying to understand the NER n stuff

 

[Aqua Man]

Im confused…. This is synthetic nutrients with coco right?

You can run those ratios until the end yes. The extra mag sulphate is fine and no reason to adjust anything when using at the end.

There really isn’t the need to shift nutrients as much as ppl think.

 

[ZombieRider]

Im confused…. This is synthetic nutrients with coco right?

You can run those ratios until the end yes. The extra mag sulphate is fine and no reason to adjust anything when using at the end.

There really isn’t the need to shift nutrients as much as ppl think.

lol I tend to have that effect on people with my questions. Yup synthetic nutes. For now Im just gonna try upping it by 2ml per bottle at the same ratio until I get the ppm Im looking for.

I guess my confusion is about shifting the nutrients like you said. All the feed charts I see change the NPK ratios for every stage of growth, like more N and less PK during veg and more PK and less N during flower. Thats why Im all confused about ratios, didnt think that one ratio can be used throughout. I guess the plant just takes the amount of NPK it needs regardless of the Nutrient element ratio?

 

[ZombieRider]

Hey, I use the GH nutes in soil and an ebb and flow system. in soil ( Promix) I keep the numbers the same all through veg of Micro/Grow/Bloom 3/3/3 early/4/4/4/ mid/5/5/5 late veg. I recently did Auto pots an ebb and flow system and I kept the numbers the same until I upped Bloom at week 3 and added Kool Bloom weeks 4-8. 5/5/10...5/5/10/ 1/3 tsp KB/..............in soil I'm using Floralicious Plus at 1 ml/gal through the grow.........In my auto pots I switched to Diamond Nectar from Floralicious because its cleaner. I'm also adding cal/mag starting week 3 -8 flower and a cleaner called Hyclean at 1ml/gal.....In ......at week 7
I fed my auto pots 3/3/10/1/4/4/1................. M/G/B/FL/CM/DN/Hy I dropped the Kool bloom.....................Tonight I'm dropping to 2/2/5/1/2/2/1 at 8 weeks feed to my reservoir

Thanks for the info man. So late flower your ratio is something like 1:2 in favor of PK and during veg its 2:1 in favor of N?

 

[Aqua Man]

lol I tend to have that effect on people with my questions. Yup synthetic nutes. For now Im just gonna try upping it by 2ml per bottle at the same ratio until I get the ppm Im looking for.

I guess my confusion is about shifting the nutrients like you said. All the feed charts I see change the NPK ratios for every stage of growth, like more N and less PK during veg and more PK and less N during flower. Thats why Im all confused about ratios, didnt think that one ratio can be used throughout. I guess the plant just takes the amount of NPK it needs regardless of the Nutrient element ratio?

Even the president of dynagrow said the only reason they make a bloom formula is because ppl want it. Its not that there can’t be a benefit to it but it definitely not the proclaimed gospel. A slight change in ratio is all thats needed and you really don’t even need that until you start to really dial in your grows. Genetics also have nutrient profiles they like more than others

 

[ZombieRider]

Even the president of dynagrow said the only reason they make a bloom formula is because ppl want it. Its not that there can’t be a benefit to it but it definitely not the proclaimed gospel. A slight change in ratio is all thats needed and you really don’t even need that until you start to really dial in your grows. Genetics also have nutrient profiles they like more than others

Damn thats crazy, here I am calculating nutrient ratios per growth stage and I technically could have just stuck with one ratio the whole grow lol. Well, gotta learn somehow lol.
I read something about how you can send tissue sample of a plant and get THE PERFECT nutrient ratios that it desires. Would be cool to try that with a plant I intend to keep around for a bit. I guess by growing new phenos we are doing a "generally accepted" best ratio for them but, like us, each individual has its preferences. Cool stuff.

 

[Aqua Man]

Damn thats crazy, here I am calculating nutrient ratios per growth stage and I technically could have just stuck with one ratio the whole grow lol. Well, gotta learn somehow lol.
I read something about how you can send tissue sample of a plant and get THE PERFECT nutrient ratios that it desires. Would be cool to try that with a plant I intend to keep around for a bit. I guess by growing new phenos we are doing a "generally accepted" best ratio for them but, like us, each individual has its preferences. Cool stuff.

Yeah but its inly good for one genetic and you woukd need to send then at several stages to see how that demand changes.

What i suggest is keep it simple for a fee grows then experiment small only changing 1-2 things so you can see the impacts… i mean there is a slight change to the nutritional needs as they grow but with a 2-1-3 or 2-1-4 ratio you cantt really go wrong. 2-1-3 better suited to veg and 2-1-4 to flower. But both can ve used start to finish

 

[ZombieRider]

Yeah but its inly good for one genetic and you woukd need to send then at several stages to see how that demand changes.

What i suggest is keep it simple for a fee grows then experiment small only changing 1-2 things so you can see the impacts… i mean there is a slight change to the nutritional needs as they grow but with a 2-1-3 or 2-1-4 ratio you cantt really go wrong. 2-1-3 better suited to veg and 2-1-4 to flower. But both can ve used start to finish

Thats kind of what Im trying to go for, an ideal baseline that I know is not too imbalanced so I can go tweaking it here and there. Until now its kind of been a shot in the dark. Thanks for clarifying this.

 

[Aqua Man]

Thats kind of what Im trying to go for, an ideal baseline that I know is not too imbalanced so I can go tweaking it here and there. Until now its kind of been a shot in the dark. Thanks for clarifying this.

Anytime… and its not the only way but it works well

 

[ZombieRider]

Anytime… and its not the only way but it works well

Are you hinting at like a one part all in one nutrient that you just measure ppm's and dont worry about the ratio's? That would be cool, though I tried ordering a bag of megacrop and I got a solid ball of salt lol

 

[Aqua Man]

Are you hinting at like a one part all in one nutrient that you just measure ppm's and dont worry about the ratio's? That would be cool, though I tried ordering a bag of megacrop and I got a solid ball of salt lol

I use a 3 part dry. I did use the mega crop one part and it was great if you could keep the humidity out of it… if not like you say it would go to shit fast.

As for one part there is dynagro and pure blend pro. Both can be used just grow start to finish but they also have a bloom. Super simple clean but not as cheap as dry salts

 

[Doobie]

I have had great Success with DynaGro. But I use the whole line. Protekt silica, Grow/Bloom, Mag Pro.
It even says on the DynaGro website. If you want an easy grow then just use Grow start to finish.
Also DynaGro just got bought by Superthrive. It's now called Superthrive Grow/Bloom

 

[Aqua Man]

I have had great Success with DynaGro. But I use the whole line. Protekt silica, Grow/Bloom, Mag Pro.
It even says on the DynaGro website. If you want an easy grow then just use Grow start to finish.
Also DynaGro just got bought by Superthrive. It's now called Superthrive Grow/Bloom

I did not know that… hope they dont go changing the product to 100 bottles like every other nutrient line