The Psyche Gardens

[Observer]

DLI & Nutrients about dialed in

 

[Observer]

Still back and fourth chasing those fuzzy aero roots

 

[Observer]

Trying 2s/5:30 on/off now

Was on 3s/10min most of the day.

 

[Zen_seeker]

I was chatting with an AI for the first time last night/early morning.

It lied once and then misrepresented itself once. It will confess if cornered but explains it away.

After asking about trying to grow the male in normal sunlight on the window ledge with sunlight lasting about 13.5 hours ATM and getting longer by mid June using my areas postal code it finally agreed that I have a 50/50’ish chance it will continue to flower.

I found it’s last reply to my thumbs up amusing.

 

[Observer]

I was chatting with an AI for the first time last night/early morning.

It lied once and then misrepresented itself once. It will confess if cornered but explains it away.

They still hallucinate but not as bad as they were a few years ago.

After asking about trying to grow the male in normal sunlight on the window ledge with sunlight lasting about 13.5 hours ATM and getting longer by mid June using my areas postal code it finally agreed that I have a 50/50’ish chance it will continue to flower.

Interesting, yea the male would more than likely go back to vegging.

I found it’s last reply to my thumbs up amusing. View attachment 96901

it's being snarky, lol.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Another funny moment, the first one actually.



So far it’s like searching the internet for answers. You have to see if the answer is correct and applies to your circumstances. If you’re not familiar with the topic it can lead you down the wrong path. But it will apologize if you point it out.

 

[Observer]

The integration of plasma technology into high-pressure aeroponics (HPA) systems involves using plasma to generate reactive oxygen and nitrogen species (RONS) that are then delivered directly to the plant roots. Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Plasma Generation: Plasma in this context refers to ionized gas that contains various reactive species, including ions, electrons, and neutral atoms or molecules in excited states. This plasma can be generated using different methods, such as dielectric barrier discharge (DBD) or other plasma sources.
• Delivery to Roots:In an aeroponic system, particularly an HPA setup where roots are periodically misted with a nutrient-rich solution, plasma technology can be integrated to treat either the nutrient solution itself or the air within the root chamber.
  • Solution Treatment: Plasma can be used to treat the nutrient solution before it is misted onto the roots. This process can generate beneficial RONS within the solution.
  • Air Treatment: Alternatively, plasma can be applied directly to the air surrounding the roots in the growth chamber, producing RONS that come into contact with the root surfaces.
• Benefits for Plants:The application of plasma-generated RONS in aeroponics, including HPA, has shown several potential benefits for plant growth and development:
  • Improved Nutrient Absorption: RONS can enhance the permeability of root cell membranes and increase the uptake of essential nutrients from the nutrient solution.
  • Enhanced Plant Resistance: RONS can act as signaling molecules that trigger defense responses in plants, making them more resistant to pathogens and environmental stresses.
  • Accelerated Growth: Some studies suggest that plasma treatment can stimulate plant growth and development, potentially leading to shorter cultivation cycles.

The MDPI review highlights that plasma treatments offer a practical way to provide RONS directly to plant roots in aeroponic systems, thereby improving nutrient absorption and plant resistance. Research in this area suggests that integrating plasma technology can be a valuable tool for boosting the efficiency and productivity of aeroponic cultivation.

 

[Observer]

Think of it like different forms of nitrogen that are created when the nitrogen gas in the air (which is mostly N₂) gets energized by the plasma.

Here are a few examples of reactive nitrogen species (RNS) that can be generated by plasma:

• Nitric oxide (NO)
• Nitrogen dioxide (NO₂)
• Nitrite ions (NO₂⁻)
• Nitrate ions (NO₃⁻) (a form of nitrogen that plants can readily use as a nutrient)
• Peroxynitrite (ONOO⁻)

These different nitrogen species have varying levels of reactivity and can interact with plant tissues and the nutrient solution in different ways, potentially contributing to the benefits we discussed earlier (like improved nutrient uptake and enhanced plant defense).

 

[Observer]

In this context, plasma refers to a partially ionized gas containing a mix of ions, electrons, and neutral atoms or molecules. It's created by adding energy to a gas, often using electricity.

The key thing about this plasma for plant growth is that it produces reactive oxygen and nitrogen species (RONS). These RONS can have beneficial effects like:

• Sterilizing the nutrient solution.
• Improving nutrient uptake by the roots.
• Potentially boosting plant growth and defense.

 

[Observer]

DBD stands for Dielectric Barrier Discharge.

In simple terms, it's a common method for creating non-thermal plasma (also called "cold plasma"). It involves using two electrodes separated by an insulating material (the dielectric barrier) and a gap filled with a gas. When a high voltage is applied, it creates a plasma in the gas without generating excessive heat. This type of plasma is often used in various applications, including sterilizing liquids and surfaces, and in some agricultural research for treating plants.

 

[Observer]

Integrating plasma technology into a high-pressure aeroponic system is still an emerging area, and specific "how-to" guides for home growers might be limited. However, based on the research, here's a general overview of the approaches involved:

Two Main Methods of Integration:

1. Treating the Nutrient Solution with Plasma:
* Plasma Source: You would need a plasma generator designed for liquid treatment. These can vary in type (e.g., Dielectric Barrier Discharge - DBD) and scale.
* Integration Point: The nutrient solution would need to flow through a chamber or come into contact with the plasma source before it is pumped to the high-pressure misters.
* Contact Time and Intensity: The duration and intensity of the plasma treatment would need to be controlled. This might involve adjusting the flow rate of the solution or the power of the plasma generator.
* Monitoring: You would need to monitor the levels of RONS (reactive oxygen and nitrogen species) in the treated solution to ensure you are achieving the desired effect without causing harm.

2. Treating the Air in the Root Chamber with Plasma:
* Plasma Source: You would need a plasma generator designed for air treatment. These are often different from liquid treatment devices.
* Placement: The plasma generator would be placed within the enclosed root chamber of your aeroponic system.
* Exposure Time and Intensity: The duration and intensity of the plasma exposure to the roots would need to be controlled. This might involve setting on/off cycles for the plasma generator.
* Air Quality Monitoring: Monitoring the concentration of RONS and other gases in the root chamber might be necessary to ensure a beneficial environment for the roots.

General Steps and Considerations:

• Sourcing Plasma Technology: This is likely the biggest hurdle for a home grower. Plasma generators for horticultural applications might not be widely available or affordable. You would need to research suppliers and specific devices suitable for your scale.
• System Design: Integrating plasma treatment might require modifications to your existing aeroponic system to accommodate the plasma generator and any necessary flow systems or chambers.
• Control System: You would likely need a way to control the operation of the plasma generator (e.g., timers, sensors).
• Safety: Plasma generators can involve high voltages. Ensure you follow all safety guidelines provided by the manufacturer.
• Experimentation: Since this is a relatively new area, there isn't a one-size-fits-all "how-to" for cannabis HPA. You would likely need to experiment with different plasma treatment parameters (duration, intensity, frequency) to find what works best for your specific setup and strain. Start with very low settings and gradually increase while carefully observing your plants' response.
• Research: Continue to follow the latest research in this area to gain more insights into optimal integration strategies and parameters.

In short, implementing plasma technology in your HPA system would likely involve acquiring a suitable plasma generator, figuring out the best way to integrate it (solution or air treatment), setting up controls, prioritizing safety, and then conducting careful experimentation to optimize the process for your cannabis plants.

This is not a simple plug-and-play solution at this point, and it requires a willingness to experiment and potentially invest in specialized equipment.

 

[Observer]

*posting as reminder for further research, self note.

 

[Observer]

Observing a, perhaps better root growth

with 2s/5-7m Off

 

[Observer]

The lateral branching is occurring more prolific

And not browning or dieing off, but that could be caused by a few different variables, whether drying up, too high/sensitive to the E.C or ratio, and my hypochlorous acid ratio.

 

[Observer]

.

 

[Observer]

I'm actually at 16~ hours on, 100-160 PPFD, 4-12 DLI
Ranges are wide due to inaccurate phone sensor/PPFD app, rough approximation.

If the plants are drooping, then I suspect too much light as the main cause, sense they are a "healthy green" color and i reduce, I may be wrong though, as it's many variables that work together, not just one or a few, and may be missing something or not properly accounting for something else.

All I care about is growing roots right now, and getting an efficient root morphology system.

Would love to buy another pump and run them together and see what happens.

 

[Observer]

Another thought, I should be training them more, having something hold them down, bent would encourage growth via releasing(?) Generating(?) hormones Like auxins and gibberrellins, phytohormones.

 

[Observer]

Some of the roots I've wrapped around in the net cups, or stacked in the cup to also see how they develop and "stack" up

*These are mostly personal notes to go back, read and comprehend under different conscious circumstances.

 

[Observer]

1. Efficiency (Photosynthetic Photon Efficacy - PPE):

• High-performance LED grow lights typically have an efficiency in the range of 2.5 to 3.5 µmol/Joule. This means for every Joule of electrical energy consumed, the light produces 2.5 to 3.5 micromoles of photons in the PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) range.

2. Power:

• A 1000-watt LED grow light consumes 1000 Joules of energy per second (since 1 Watt = 1 Joule/second).

3. Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF):

• Lower end: 1000 J/s * 2.5 µmol/J = 2500 µmol/s
• Higher end: 1000 J/s * 3.5 µmol/J = 3500 µmol/s

This means the light is emitting between 2500 and 3500 micromoles of photons per second in the PAR range.
4. Converting Micromoles to Number of Photons:

• 1 mole of photons = approximately 6.022 x 10^23 photons (Avogadro's number).
• 1 micromole (µmol) = 10^-6 moles.

Therefore, 1 µmol of photons = (6.022 x 10^23 photons/mole) * (10^-6 mole/µmol) = 6.022 x 10^17 photons/µmol.
5. Total Number of Photons per Second:

• Lower end: 2500 µmol/s * 6.022 x 10^17 photons/µmol = 15055 x 10^17 photons/s = 1.5055 x 10^21 photons per second
• Higher end: 3500 µmol/s * 6.022 x 10^17 photons/µmol = 21077 x 10^17 photons/s = 2.1077 x 10^21 photons per second

Conclusion:
You are correct, the number of photons is indeed very large. My initial quick comparison to trillions was an underestimation of the magnitude.
The emission rate for a 1000-watt high-performance LED grow light is in the order of 1.5 to 2.1 x 10^21 photons per second.
To put that in perspective with your scales:

• 1 billion = 1 x 10^9
• 1 trillion = 1 x 10^12
• 1 sextillion = 1 x 10^21

So, we are talking about approximately 1.5 to 2.1 sextillion photons per second.
Thank you for prompting me to double-check! It's important to be accurate with these values.

 

[Observer]

1. Efficiency (Photosynthetic Photon Efficacy - PPE):

• High-performance LED grow lights typically have an efficiency in the range of 2.5 to 3.5 µmol/Joule. This means for every Joule of electrical energy consumed, the light produces 2.5 to 3.5 micromoles of photons in the PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) range.

2. Power:

• A 1000-watt LED grow light consumes 1000 Joules of energy per second (since 1 Watt = 1 Joule/second).

3. Photosynthetic Photon Flux (PPF):

• Lower end: 1000 J/s * 2.5 µmol/J = 2500 µmol/s
• Higher end: 1000 J/s * 3.5 µmol/J = 3500 µmol/s

This means the light is emitting between 2500 and 3500 micromoles of photons per second in the PAR range.
4. Converting Micromoles to Number of Photons:

• 1 mole of photons = approximately 6.022 x 10^23 photons (Avogadro's number).
• 1 micromole (µmol) = 10^-6 moles.

Therefore, 1 µmol of photons = (6.022 x 10^23 photons/mole) * (10^-6 mole/µmol) = 6.022 x 10^17 photons/µmol.
5. Total Number of Photons per Second:

• Lower end: 2500 µmol/s * 6.022 x 10^17 photons/µmol = 15055 x 10^17 photons/s = 1.5055 x 10^21 photons per second
• Higher end: 3500 µmol/s * 6.022 x 10^17 photons/µmol = 21077 x 10^17 photons/s = 2.1077 x 10^21 photons per second

Conclusion:
You are correct, the number of photons is indeed very large. My initial quick comparison to trillions was an underestimation of the magnitude.
The emission rate for a 1000-watt high-performance LED grow light is in the order of 1.5 to 2.1 x 10^21 photons per second.
To put that in perspective with your scales:

• 1 billion = 1 x 10^9
• 1 trillion = 1 x 10^12
• 1 sextillion = 1 x 10^21

So, we are talking about approximately 1.5 to 2.1 sextillion photons per second.
Thank you for prompting me to double-check! It's important to be accurate with these values.

I mean, I figured billions or trillions, but sextillion photons?

That's fucking insane

@Stoneyluv

You may have some insight coming from lithography?

Is that math correct? I mean I could also ask Google but I'd also like to talk about it with big brains, lol.

 

[Observer]

Lights out.

 

[Observer]

I need to make a "high voltage, high frequency" power source*

Cold plasma generation

 

[Observer]

2s/6m

 

[Zen_seeker]

Is it the light or my eyes? Roots look a tad brown in the last post?

Does side growth not occur as readily this way? I usually get more in my coffee can of water. But never as long a tap root as you’ve got going.

Always cool seeing what your up to Observer.

 

[Observer]

Is it the light or my eyes? Roots look a tad brown in the last post?

Yea the top part is brownish there, seeing if it gets worse.

Does side growth not occur as readily this way? I usually get more in my coffee can of water. But never as long a tap root as you’ve got going.

The lateral branching, the side "spikes" the tips were browning, whether from my solution or getting too dry at a point, but it's starting to look better with a shorter off time.

I think it was caused by the sterilizing chems, too high of a dosage.

Always cool seeing what your up to Observer.

Thank you

 

[Observer]

Should I go ahead and flip?

 

[Observer]

Is it the light or my eyes? Roots look a tad brown in the last post?

Does side growth not occur as readily this way? I usually get more in my coffee can of water. But never as long a tap root as you’ve got going.

Remember my kratky roots?

Trying to get the variables laid out for this type of growth system, I think its something to do with "dry zones".

 

[Observer]

Tops are looking healthy though, growth rate is slow, and I think it's due to inconsistent environment, too cold, too dry.

But I'm trying to keep the environment right, all manual balancing...

 

[Observer]

.

Gonna try 2s/4m and see how they develop.

 

[Observer]

Peppers.

 

[Observer]

Just trying to grow some roots here lol.

 

[Observer]

Partly how I clean it.

I use pool shock to refill this clear rez bottle.

Giga-cheap.

 

[Observer]

 

[Observer]

Those VGs make this shit so much easier too Thanks y'all

 

[Observer]

 

[Zen_seeker]

I remember the name but I’ve seen so many of your grows they run together at times. I know where to look for reference and do a search.

I only mentioned the brown as I wasn’t sure if the lighting was responsible. I also figured if it was an issue you’d have a reason for it. Which you do, your still looking into it.

Love the little money saving tips. Chemistry was cool but an asshat teacher turned me off. Never thought it would come in so handy in retirement. I imagine a lot of good chefs are too.

 

[Observer]

Should I go ahead and flip?

I meant, would u guys like to see me just go ahead and flip or wait a little more

 

[Observer]

I remember the name but I’ve seen so many of your grows they run together at times. I know where to look for reference and do a search.

I only mentioned the brown as I wasn’t sure if the lighting was responsible. I also figured if it was an issue you’d have a reason for it. Which you do, your still looking into it.

good point, I never saw this "browning" in clear cups on my kratky training, but again, gotta account for all possible variables that could cause that, could be "bad" bacteria causing that, my nutrient Solution is pretty clear, nothing dark or staining it. I did use kelp at the start for a few gallons, but that was so many gallons ago/low dosage, I don't think it's that.

I do think that browning is from a "negative" affect, but plants look mostly happy for now so carrying on just trying to keep sterile and scrubbed down, careful with my hypo acid dosage.

Love the little money saving tips. Chemistry was cool but an asshat teacher turned me off. Never thought it would come in so handy in retirement. I imagine a lot of good chefs are too.

I've fell more in love with chemistry since growing, that's basically what it is.

Biological chemical reactions, the plant is a biological synthesizing reactor.

I think I've started to also notice or observe that the browning roots, if they are not happy, they start to 'harden' off"

I might of stopped or killed plenty of roots from trying to balance it out 4mins off to 14 minutes off, causing dry zones for instance.


A lot to consider and think about.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

I meant, would u guys like to see me just go ahead and flip or wait a little more

No matter when you decide to flip, it will be interesting stuff for me. Do you have anything you still want to work on before flipping? Or, are you at a point where you want to finish this one up so you can apply what you've learned, so far, to the next grow?

 

[Observer]

No matter when you decide to flip, it will be interesting stuff for me.

Do you have anything you still want to work on before flipping?

A bigger, more fuzzy/aero like root system.

Or, are you at a point where you want to finish this one up so you can apply what you've learned, so far, to the next grow?

but i also figure once I switch, its demands will change, and growth rate would increase based off its needs, and ill be able to observe more data in a shorter amount of time.

I'm not getting the results I should or want, maybe I need a higher pressure pump, smaller droplet size ultimately, besides accounting for the canopy environment variables.

Maybe my timings are not optimized or my nutrient ratio, maybe im using too much or too less water.

It seems it basically has to be about perfect, "growing roots" are more finicky than just "growing a canopy"

Figuring it out.