The Psyche Gardens

[Observer]

Ok I was not familiar with the term

Thigmotropism

 

[Stoneyluv]

Ok I was not familiar with the term

Thigmotropism

you think maybe gemini is just making words up now to make itself sound smarter? haha

learned something new!!

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your plants are in fog, correct?

 

[Observer]

you think maybe gemini is just making words up now to make itself sound smarter? haha

Yeah I went to double check that lol

learned something new!!

Yup, i never heard that term before.
ima post some more info about the cellular level, then molecular and atomic, then at the quantum level here in a little bit.

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your plants are in fog, correct?

Close, fog is 1-10um droplet size, I'm "around" an average of 40um droplet size, more of a fine mist then running a ultrasonic fogger.

I just need a fan in chamber to run my fogger.

 

[Observer]

you think maybe gemini is just making words up now to make itself sound smarter? haha

learned something new!!

.

your plants are in fog, correct?

There's a bunch of tropisms lol

Here is a list of some of the key plant-related tropisms, which are directional growth responses to external stimuli:

1. Phototropism: Growth in response to light. Stems typically exhibit positive phototropism (grow towards light), while roots often show negative phototropism (grow away from light or are insensitive).

2. Gravitropism (or Geotropism): Growth in response to gravity. Roots typically show positive gravitropism (grow downwards in the direction of gravity), while shoots exhibit negative gravitropism (grow upwards against the direction of gravity).

3. Thigmotropism: Growth in response to touch or physical contact. This is evident in the coiling of tendrils around a support or the hardening of stems subjected to wind. It can be positive (growing towards touch) or negative (growing away from touch).

4. Hydrotropism: Growth in response to water. Roots typically show positive hydrotropism (grow towards water sources), which can be a stronger influence than gravitropism in some cases.

5. Chemotropism: Growth in response to chemicals. This can include roots growing towards beneficial nutrients or away from toxic substances, or pollen tubes growing towards the ovule in response to chemical signals.

6. Thermotropism: Growth in response to temperature. While less commonly discussed than others, some plant parts, like roots, may show directional growth responses to temperature gradients.

Like a class category of growth responses from different bio, environment, mechanical, or chemical stimuli.

 

[Observer]

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I think i need to add another pump or see if I can get a smaller nozzle orifice to get a smaller average droplet size to get the true HPA results...Damnit.....for now work on my W/D cycle times

 

[Observer]

Black tips...hmm. idk, first thing that mits me is maybe "air" maybe ? Something pushing it down right? Haven't played in this department of growing.
So yeah that's a bunch!

I think it was getting to dry on the outer, as I was not saturating with enough mist


I'm either overspraying or underspraying lol

 

[Observer]

Doing a slow flip starting tonight, on and off times will move 30 minutes towards eachother

Not sure if I'll change the light timer every night or everywhere yet

 

[Observer]

That's "2 seconds on" with this timer.


The 1 second on, does not come on, I suppose because the pump needs 1 second to prime, lol.

That 2second mist looks good, but I don't think it's enough, unless it's a shorter off time?

Creating a pulsing, breathing like motion with the roots......

So I'm sitting here playing with 2s and 3s on, 1m off, 2-5 mins off, seeing if they drip before the next spray



Notes.

 

[doublej]

Fine tuning, could pressure add to it?

 

[Observer]

Doing a slow flip starting tonight, on and off times will move 30 minutes towards eachother

Not sure if I'll change the light timer every night or everywhere yet

Every other night*

 

[Observer]

Fine tuning, could pressure add to it?

The more the better, to an extent.


The pump is around 70 psi, I wonder if added another one to it if it would be 140 psi~?

Need closer to 90psi+, 10-50um droplet size, my current pump is probably 30-70um at 70 psi, 4-8bar.

Otherwise maybe using a accumulator tank to keep constant pressure would solve it.

 

[doublej]

The more the better, to an extent.


The pump is around 70 psi, I wonder if added another one to it if it would be 140 psi~?

Need closer to 90psi+, 10-50um droplet size, my current pump is probably 30-70um at 70 psi, 4-8bar.

Otherwise maybe using a accumulator tank to keep constant pressure would solve it.

That's a good thought for adding. I'm thinking to much?
But the road you could go on makes sense as well

 

[Observer]

He's running 92-120 PSI a bit finer mist

He made a pretty clean setup for HPA

 

[Observer]

Those fuzzy fine root hairs are trichoblasts.


His system is legit lol

 

[doublej]

View attachment 98498

Those fuzzy fine root hairs are trichoblasts.


His system is legit lol

Healthy & Hardy...

 

[Observer]

The vertical grow, lol.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

The more the better, to an extent.


The pump is around 70 psi, I wonder if added another one to it if it would be 140 psi~?

This is from a data sheet for the pump used to test nozzles in a YouTube video a couple of pages back. I put a red outline around the part where it states increasing the inlet pressure increases discharge pressure by a similar amount. For that particular pump, the max inlet pressure is listed at 60psi. If that pump can generate 80psi discharge at 0 inlet pressure, does that mean it would generate 140psi at discharge when you have 60psi at the inlet? If the -10LPM on the chart holds true for every +10psi, it looks like you'd have 0.4LPM at 140psi at the discharge. In very limited poking around, I've seen several mentions of aeroponic nozzles that operate at 80psi-100psi.

Need closer to 90psi+, 10-50um droplet size, my current pump is probably 30-70um at 70 psi, 4-8bar.

I almost wonder if you would get enough of a boost to the inlet pressure (and thereby increase discharge pressure) but connecting the pump inlet directly to your home's water line.

Otherwise maybe using a accumulator tank to keep constant pressure would solve it.

If the pump needs to run longer to hit the discharge pressure you want, maybe a pressure switch for the pump and an actuator valve would work for the mist/fog cycles. With such small lines, I'd think the pump would get there quickly on it's own, though. If the pump is sufficient, maybe it all comes down to the correct size nozzle.

I don't know anything. Just flapping my jaws and seeing if anything lands close, lol.

 

[Observer]

Need more aeroponic growers here, whether low pressure or high pressure.

=(

 

[Observer]

I did not know leaf sensors were a thing

 

[Observer]

What the fuck

I record a video, press OK, it dissappear.

Happens when I try to take pictures sometimes too.

 

[Observer]

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[Observer]

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[Observer]

2s/5:30 W/D

5.6 pH
250-400ppm

175ppfd
74-82 F
50-80 RH

 

[BlueCollarBob]

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I've seen where you are looking for more out of the roots, but don't those plants look nice and healthy? Does the root development become more impactful when the plant is bigger and in later stages?

Thanks again for sharing all of this.

 

[Observer]

I've seen where you are looking for more out of the roots, but don't those plants look nice and healthy? Does the root development become more impactful when the plant is bigger and in later stages?

Thanks again for sharing all of this.

They are definitely looking healthy up top, I think some of the root have bad bacteria on them but also get rinsed and killed with each spray from the hypochlorous acid I use too I think.

the growth rate has just been too slow for what I should be getting.

I'm going to flower and gonna see what sex these are and run it till they're done and try again.

Ultimately, may need to get another pump and combine them, and work better on my wet/dry cycles.

Trichoblasts are much more efficient parts of the root system for nutrient uptake, they won't even form unless the surrounding environment is near-perfect for that kind of root morphology, they are a lot more sensitive, the water just kicking on for too long will drown or destroy or suffocate those fine hairs,

then you just get the regular hydro/dwc/NFT/ebb&flow roots.


If my environment, root zone conditions and genetics were on point, these plants could be 2x-3x the size at day 15 compared to now, these have been in the tote for about 4 weeks now.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Thanks for the explanation. That helps me follow along a little better.

 

[Observer]

Thanks for the explanation. That helps me follow along a little better.

No problem, thanks for asking and getting involved, helps me think out loud and work things out more, pondering and answering questions.

 

[Observer]

Sup zen!, we going into flower and starting over!, after flower, if these are females, lol.

 

[Zen_seeker]

What’s your water temperature vs his?

What’s the warmest it can safely be before it negatively effects the roots?

 

[Observer]

What’s your water temperature vs his?

What’s the warmest it can safely be before it negatively effects the roots?

@Aqua Man got up to 80 or 90f running sterile, dwc?, smooth sailing grow no issue.

And that's a good point too, or important variable, i've been trying to run a little cooler, but my canopy stays around 75-81 with lights on, I suppose the chamber gets to 70-77 F from the Ambient and then cools a little when mist comes on, been keeping the door cracked too instead of shut to keep it cooler.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Sup zen!, we going into flower and starting over!, after flower, if these are females, lol.

I’ve been following along form outside. Just not logging in as often.

Root volume is growing but still brown and little side development. Anything along the line that could have contamination? Weren’t they whiter a while back?

 

[Zen_seeker]

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Look great from up top. Never know there was an issue.

 

[Observer]

I’ve been following along form outside. Just not logging in as often.

Root volume is growing but still brown and little side development. Anything along the line that could have contamination? Weren’t they whiter a while back?

Up top is more brown, and it does seem to be coming down the root rope some, but new root growth is still coming out solid or transparent white.

Gotta be careful and precise with my hypochlorous acid.

A hit of h2o2 wouldn't hurt but im out.

Little more lateral branching


I think the main problem is my AVERAGE mist is just barely small enough droplet size, and then my W/D cycles.

Adding another pump might just solve that, and then get solution, environment, and W/D cycles dialed.

 

[Observer]

Look great from up top. Never know there was an issue.

Thank you, I was expecting more of an issue but besides slow growth rate they are healthy for the most part I think

Ready to go ahead and flip and see, and try to finish them before contamination takes hold and then just try again.

And then remake the "system"

 

[Observer]

This was 2s/6m W/D from 4 am this morning to now


May change the timing again, going to observe 30 seconds before the time on and see if they are too wet or too dry, an add or subtract 30s.

 

[Observer]

Or again, maybe my average droplet size is barely small enough.

A very fine "dry" mist" and this trichoblasts morphology develops better.

Just like with every method, I get contradicting information and hypothesis. On what exactly causes what, but close ranges/ idea.

 

[Observer]

I could be overthinking too lol

 

[Observer]

I'm just around the edge of a "True" high pressure aeroponics, supposedly, considered around 90 PSI+, my pump is 70 PSI.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Or again, maybe my average droplet size is barely small enough.

A very fine "dry" mist" and this trichoblasts morphology develops better.

Just like with every method, I get contradicting information and hypothesis. On what exactly causes what, but close ranges/ idea.

Looks like they are about ready but just don’t take off. Is enough mist filling the whole tote or is it just at the general root area? Are you after more of a fog effect or misty shower?

 

[Observer]

Looks like they are about ready but just don’t take off. Is enough mist filling the hole tote or is it just at the general root area? Are you after more of a fog effect or misty shower?

"Fog effect" would be better for trichoblasts root morphology, compared to mist, I think that much is a fact 100%

The entire root system needs to be coated in micron scale thick water, once it dries, another mist or fog/cycle NEEDs to happen, that action has to be near perfectly dialed, in conjecture with with the water droplet size.

Oh, and you know how evaporation from a mushroom substrate causes pinning, or the fruiting bodies to grow? I think there's a similar correlation.