Newbie learning how to hydro

[GrumpAzz]

Still beats driving cross country tho.

Nothing beats a good cross country cruise in my book. Might be the years I spent as a somewhat mule.

I'd much rather do that than mosey through security just to sit in a crowded airport waiting to board a crowded plane for a couple hours only to land and do it all again. Yuck.

 

[Observer]

I'm trying to find some information on feeding the right ppm's, since i find this very important.
All things i find, showing values way above of those you guys mentioned.
Im not saying anything about you being wrong, all i do is trying to understand how to work with nutes.
I totally understand that your values comes from practice, but those i keep reading are just brochures.

Here is another brochure from Royal Queen

All info and suggestions are super appreciated

Thank you for your time

Kind regardsView attachment 40982

At one point, you throw all that way and learn how to read the plant

 

[Bushman]

Greetings sirs!!!

WoW, so many things, i like science!!

Plants are looking a little bit happier today btw

Moe.Red, everyone, thanks for your time, i really appreciate it

All that hydrogen peroxide thing is really interesting, is there another way to count peroxides ppm except those strips? I was reading somewhere that you could use from 1ml/l to 3ml/l of 3% in your reservoir, without damaging the plants, is that right?

Yes, there is a water pump, 2000lt/h, my system consists of 8 buckets and one control bucket. I running around 130lt of water in there. So i guessing i have around 15 turns per hour. Chiller i bought is useless for the summer hot days, it's too small... What a shame.

By using cal mag together with grow 1:1 , you mean, if i use 1 part grow i should use same amount of cal mag, right?

VDP, i see...
My room temp is around 20 all the time,its a mild winter here. I was thinking, maybe i should add one hps lamp instead of led, for extra temps, since i have one. As goes for humidity, i guess i must to invest in hygrometer. I run a humidifier for some time in the room, just to collect some humidity.

Once again, thanks for being so helpful

My best wishes

 

[Observer]

Greetings sirs!!!

WoW, so many things, i like science!!

Plants are looking a little bit happier today btw

Moe.Red, everyone, thanks for your time, i really appreciate it

All that hydrogen peroxide thing is really interesting, is there another way to count peroxides ppm except those strips? I was reading somewhere that you could use from 1ml/l to 3ml/l of 3% in your reservoir, without damaging the plants, is that right?

ORP sensors, oxidation reduction potential.
Though, I've not use one yet, or what the "maximum" reading would be/safe for plant health/optimum for root zone oxygenation.

I use 34% h202 at 3-8mL per Gallon.

Others will say 3-5mL

But I go ham with the h2o2 @ 34%

Yes, there is a water pump, 2000lt/h, my system consists of 8 buckets and one control bucket. I running around 130lt of water in there. So i guessing i have around 15 turns per hour. Chiller i bought is useless for the summer hot days, it's too small... What a shame.

By using cal mag together with grow 1:1 , you mean, if i use 1 part grow i should use same amount of cal mag, right?

VDP, i see...
My room temp is around 20 all the time,its a mild winter here. I was thinking, maybe i should add one hps lamp instead of led, for extra temps, since i have one. As goes for humidity, i guess i must to invest in hygrometer. I run a humidifier for some time in the room, just to collect some humidity.

Once again, thanks for being so helpful

My best wishes

 

[Bushman]

WoW!!!
Thats a lot of peroxide
How would you treat root rot with it?

Btw i replaced one of my most unhealthy looking seedlings with a better looking one, had one on a side in a netpot, sitting in some water.

Also opened up the other seedling. Looked fine with white roots.
How long do those tiny plants need top feeding?

What about plant on the second pic, with a bigger roots? Should i continue top feeding?

Thank you for your time

 

[smoke]

Once your roots hit the water, there's no reason to top feed

 

[moe.red]

Just got a minute for now, wanted to answer the peroxide dosing question.

Yes, you can do some math if you know the actual volume of water in your system (not just adding up the container sizes) and know the % peroxide.

Here is where the problem comes in if we want to get technical. Ever pour peroxide on a cut and watch it bubble? Notice it only bubbles on the cut and not your clean finger? That's because peroxide is like a heat seeking missile for organics.

If you put in the correct amount of H2O2 to get to 10PPM in a clean system, the math works.

If you put that same amount into a system with turds floating in it, it will immediately attack the turds and burn itself off. In 30 minutes you will measure 0 PPM peroxide.

So if you are trying to get the water to an effective dose to treat root rot, doing the measuring thing will most likely not end up in a PPM level you are expecting because it will oxidize quickly with all the pythium it needs to kill. It will bubble like on your cut and burn itself off quickly, leaving none left to not just get into every nook and cranny, but to remain in the water to continue protecting you for the next couple of days. Pythium will remain in that system for a while once you have it, it finds a place to hide and will re-infect if you don't have a low level of peroxide in the water going forward.

So, using peroxide if you have pythium is good. If you have no way to actually measure PPM, you will want to probably up your dose frequency. And at this point you are playing a guessing game as to how much to add and when.

If you get to a high PPM like 50+ - it will also eat some of the root cells. You will see this as them turning almost a brownish red color.

Take it for what it is worth. If you like to be precise with your medicine doses, you need the strips. If you have root rot and don't have strips, you are still better off using peroxide and doing the best you can with dosage than just letting the problem get worse. Roots burned by H2O2 are most likely better than ones with an active colony of root rot.

 

[Observer]

ORP sensors, oxidation reduction potential.
Though, I've not use one yet, or what the "maximum" reading would be/safe for plant health/optimum for root zone oxygenation.

I use 34% h202 at 3-8mL per Gallon.

Others will say 3-5mL

But I go ham with the h2o2 @ 34%

wait, let me clarify on this/ context

in this context this is for feed solution, (i use 3-7mL, playing around with upwards to 10mL) h2o2 34% per gallon of water for DTW_drain-to-waste, coco/wool/perl) systems


does it carry over for RES's , i believe so.

redose RES every 3-5 days with h2o2/pool shock (calcium hypochlorous acid)
if going the STERILE route.

411

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Welcome to Bud Builders Bushman, a little late coming to your thread but you are hearing some solid advice. Will be following along and helping when I can.

I will add briefly that I run RDWC but also use a different method than what smoke and Moe use. The main difference is smoke and Moe use an auto top off res and I do not. I top off manually with buckets of water and mixed nutrients. I am not sure if anyone else grows this way but it works and makes things easy peasy.

My main tool is this chart.

I have learned to never use the nutrient manufacturer recommendations on the amounts to feed my plants. I also use GH Trio and only look to their charts for the proper ratio between brown, green and pink, that's it. It's been said, I'll say it again. It's easier to help a hungry plant than an overfed one. I always start on the low side of things with total ppm and then, using the above chart, I read the water and the plants and that tells me what to do.

I keep a daily log of pH and ppm, morning and evening at least. I can see when things are changing and I read that chart to tell me what to do. You first look at the EC or PPM, I use ppm. What's the ppm doing? Falling, rising, steady? Then go to that part of the chart and ask, what is the pH doing? Falling, rising, steady? Then look at that part of the chart to see what to do.

Don't want to overload you, there is a bit of a learning curve here, but once you get the hang of it, you will love it. Happy to help any way I can, will be following along.

 

[Bushman]

Smoke, Moe.Red, thanks

Observer, thanks!! I see you working with different system. Hey, what is RES? You telling that those numbers should work on RDWC also?
Yay!! Whats calcium hypochlorous acid, and how it works? You combining both acid and peroxide? Peroxide by itself doesn't do the job?

SweetLeafGrow, hey!!
Very interesting, how my rdwc differs from yours, smokes and MoeReds. I mean, i don't quite understand what are auto top off ress are. Yes, I don't know much
The chart of yours is sweet also. I think i understand a little what you doing there.

Thanks

 

[Cool_Beans]

Good luck dude! Super fun way to grow and very helpful folks here.

 

[Observer]

Smoke, Moe.Red, thanks

Observer, thanks!! I see you working with different system. Hey, what is RES?

RES = Resevoir

You telling that those numbers should work on RDWC also?

yea , i think so, if one is going the sterile route 3-5ml 34% h2o2 per gallon, 3-5 days

Yay!! Whats calcium hypochlorous acid, and how it works?

this is "snakeoil" you can make the "same thing" A LOT CHEAPER, with POOL SHOCK, 1 gram of pool shock /per gallon

Pool Shock?

I've seen it mentioned in other threads but I was just wondering if anyone currently is using it and if so what is your dosing procedure? UC Roots is damn expensive. Thanks.

www.thcfarmer.com

You combining both acid and peroxide?

i mix both and Ca(CIO)2 and 34% H2o2

"""

1. Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2):Hydrogen peroxide can decompose into water (H2O) and oxygen (O2) gas, especially under certain conditions:
   2�2�2→2�2�+�22H2O2→2H2O+O2
2. Calcium Hypochlorite (Ca(ClO)2):Calcium hypochlorite can release hypochlorite ions (���−ClO−) when dissolved in water:
   ��(���)2→��2++2���−Ca(ClO)2→Ca2++2ClO−

When these two reactions are combined, the hypochlorite ions may react with hydrogen peroxide to form water, oxygen, and chloride ions:

2�2�2+2���−→2�2�+�2+2��−2H2O2+2ClO−→2H2O+O2+2Cl−

The released oxygen would be in the form of gas and might be observed as bubbles.""

guess, cant copy paste those symbols here, idk.

Peroxide by itself doesn't do the job?

it can.

SweetLeafGrow, hey!!
Very interesting, how my rdwc differs from yours, smokes and MoeReds. I mean, i don't quite understand what are auto top off ress are. Yes, I don't know much
The chart of yours is sweet also. I think i understand a little what you doing there.

Thanks

 

[Observer]

RES = Resevoir

yea , i think so, if one is going the sterile route 3-5ml 34% h2o2 per gallon, 3-5 days

View attachment 41314

this is "snakeoil" you can make the "same thing" A LOT CHEAPER, with POOL SHOCK, 1 gram of pool shock /per gallon

Pool Shock?

I've seen it mentioned in other threads but I was just wondering if anyone currently is using it and if so what is your dosing procedure? UC Roots is damn expensive. Thanks.

www.thcfarmer.com

i mix both, Ca(CIO)2 and 34% H2o2

"""

1. Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2):Hydrogen peroxide can decompose into water (H2O) and oxygen (O2) gas, especially under certain conditions:
   2�2�2→2�2�+�22H2O2→2H2O+O2
2. Calcium Hypochlorite (Ca(ClO)2):Calcium hypochlorite can release hypochlorite ions (���−ClO−) when dissolved in water:
   ��(���)2→��2++2���−Ca(ClO)2→Ca2++2ClO−

When these two reactions are combined, the hypochlorite ions may react with hydrogen peroxide to form water, oxygen, and chloride ions:

2�2�2+2���−→2�2�+�2+2��−2H2O2+2ClO−→2H2O+O2+2Cl−

The released oxygen would be in the form of gas and might be observed as bubbles.""

guess, cant copy paste those symbols here, idk.




it can.

Edited

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Very interesting, how my rdwc differs from yours, smokes and MoeReds. I mean, i don't quite understand what are auto top off ress are.

Auto top off means that they have a separate reservoir that feeds their main system reservoir using a float valve.

Basically, this extra "res" is there to replenish the main system, and as the plants drink together with a bit of evaporation, keep the system water level constant. This has the effect, over time, to dilute the nutrient solution ppm numbers so nutrients must be added to the system to maintain any given ppm. This is how smoke and Moe run their systems.

I do not have that extra res so when my plants drink, I need to get water in buckets, mix the nutrients in the proper ratios and at the proper ppm, and then add that to my system.

 

[Observer]

Smoke, Moe.Red, thanks

Observer, thanks!! I see you working with different system

like to learn it all lol

Kratky, DWC, RDWC, Ebb & Flow, Fogponics, AeroPonics, RockWool (DTW)/Coco ("Drain-To-Waste")

 

[smoke]

Welcome to Bud Builders Bushman, a little late coming to your thread but you are hearing some solid advice. Will be following along and helping when I can.

I will add briefly that I run RDWC but also use a different method than what smoke and Moe use. The main difference is smoke and Moe use an auto top off res and I do not. I top off manually with buckets of water and mixed nutrients. I am not sure if anyone else grows this way but it works and makes things easy peasy.

My main tool is this chart.

I have learned to never use the nutrient manufacturer recommendations on the amounts to feed my plants. I also use GH Trio and only look to their charts for the proper ratio between brown, green and pink, that's it. It's been said, I'll say it again. It's easier to help a hungry plant than an overfed one. I always start on the low side of things with total ppm and then, using the above chart, I read the water and the plants and that tells me what to do.

I keep a daily log of pH and ppm, morning and evening at least. I can see when things are changing and I read that chart to tell me what to do. You first look at the EC or PPM, I use ppm. What's the ppm doing? Falling, rising, steady? Then go to that part of the chart and ask, what is the pH doing? Falling, rising, steady? Then look at that part of the chart to see what to do.

Don't want to overload you, there is a bit of a learning curve here, but once you get the hang of it, you will love it. Happy to help any way I can, will be following along.

I cropped that page you gave me a couple days ago and thought I'd add it here.

 

[Observer]

Best practice on RDWC is 10 turns per hour. More just adds heat and energy use with no benefit

Ty

So I should probably use my timer and set up on/off cycles for the Recirculation bit, Atleast 10 "turns or cycles" an hour?

 

[moe.red]

Ty

So I should probably use my timer and set up on/off cycles for the Recirculation bit, Atleast 10 "turns or cycles" an hour?

No what I mean by that is if you have a 40lt system use a 400lph pump. Jumping to an 800lph does not improve your grow.

I do not recommend a timer on the circ pump leave it on 24/7

Or use a variable speed pump. @steamroller is the site expert on pumps.

 

[Observer]

No what I mean by that is if you have a 40lt system use a 400lph pump. Jumping to an 800lph does not improve your grow.

I do not recommend a timer on the circ pump leave it on 24/7

Or use a variable speed pump. @steamroller is the site expert on pumps.

ahh, i see what ur saying

thanks moe.

 

[Bushman]

I'm so grateful for all your help folks

Thanks!! Stuff you sharing is priceless.

SweetLeafGrow, what about my system. RDWC with control bucket but no valve in it. It's not auto top off right?
I using control bucket to add fresh water, nutes and make my measurements.
When adding nutrients, i doing it separately with every nute, and waiting a little until it mixes up in reservoirs. I heard, its not good when you mixing nutes all together at once.

Generally, as i understand, hydroponics working better with cuttings than plants from seed. From my observation, there is a lot of struggling for those tiny plants. Or im wrong here?, and those seedlings are struggling because of me, lol

I already acquired an aeroponic cloner for the future. And those two small seedlings are bubble gums, I'll try to make them mother plants..

 

[stonemason]

I'm so grateful for all your help folks

Thanks!! Stuff you sharing is priceless.

SweetLeafGrow, what about my system. RDWC with control bucket but no valve in it. It's not auto top off right?
I using control bucket to add fresh water, nutes and make my measurements.
When adding nutrients, i doing it separately with every nute, and waiting a little until it mixes up in reservoirs. I heard, its not good when you mixing nutes all together at once.

Generally, as i understand, hydroponics working better with cuttings than plants from seed. From my observation, there is a lot of struggling for those tiny plants. Or im wrong here?, and those seedlings are struggling because of me, lol

I already acquired an aeroponic cloner for the future. And those two small seedlings are bubble gums, I'll try to make them mother plants..

Love the buble.gum.who is the breeder?

 

[Bushman]

Love the buble.gum.who is the breeder?

Hey stonemason!!

Serious seeds <<<

 

[stonemason]

Nice my buddy just poped thier new buble gum bx.

 

[stonemason]

Welcome to bud builders.

 

[Moshmen]

Welcome bushman ! Not much help here I play in the dirt ! lol but love me some plant porn !

 

[moe.red]

I'm so grateful for all your help folks

Thanks!! Stuff you sharing is priceless.

SweetLeafGrow, what about my system. RDWC with control bucket but no valve in it. It's not auto top off right?
I using control bucket to add fresh water, nutes and make my measurements.
When adding nutrients, i doing it separately with every nute, and waiting a little until it mixes up in reservoirs. I heard, its not good when you mixing nutes all together at once.

Generally, as i understand, hydroponics working better with cuttings than plants from seed. From my observation, there is a lot of struggling for those tiny plants. Or im wrong here?, and those seedlings are struggling because of me, lol

I already acquired an aeroponic cloner for the future. And those two small seedlings are bubble gums, I'll try to make them mother plants..

I know you asked slg but I’ll put in a couple of pennies.

There is not that much difference between a system with auto top off and one without if everything else is equal. The big thing is one is more manual. It’s sounds like that is what you have. A manual top off.

With an auto top off there are 2 ways to do it. One is keep the levels up with RO. The other is to top off with a nutrient mix. Both work fine but it affects how you interpret your ph and EC trends. We can dig into all that in time, but honestly it would just be confusing at this stage of your grow. Trust us to guide you and get your first harvest done and everything will make more sense.

Adding nutes separately is correct. In your case the correct order is cal mag, micros (brown stuff) then green then pink. Finally adjust ph after stirring but using RO the ph should be already set to 5.8 by the nutes you added.

After you get more comfortable we will talk about things like buffering, silica, msa, hummic and fulvic acid, and all the other potions. Right now the 4 cal, green, pink, brown are all you need. Less is more when learning and those alone will produce a great harvest.

In terms of hydro being tough with seedlings, it’s all just what you are comfortable with. I think success rates for seasoned hydro growers vs seasoned soil growers is nearly identical- approaching 100%. If the seed pops you can grow it in either system equally well.

 

[smoke]

https://budbuilders.org/threads/rdwc-advanced-top-up-method-explained-by-aqua-man.209/post-7260

 

[moe.red]

https://budbuilders.org/threads/rdwc-advanced-top-up-method-explained-by-aqua-man.209/post-7260

That’s a good thread. Hopefully our local hero and weed guru @Aqua Man will find time to drop in. He’s probably forgotten more about weed than I know.

 

[Max]

You heard from the man Moe…how’s he doing..

 

[moe.red]

You heard from the man Moe…how’s he doing..

Spoke maybe a week ago? Running a lot of overtime. His new job is challenging for sure. But doing good just super busy.

Not growing atm just no time. Hopefully things level out for him.

 

[Moshmen]

Spoke maybe a week ago? Running a lot of overtime. His new job is challenging for sure. But doing good just super busy.

Not growing atm just no time. Hopefully things level out for him.

Gotta have some balance. - not sure what that’s like yet but I’m tryin

 

[Bushman]

Very well!!
Thanks

Took some pics of them plants.
Today they are looking more alive i would say!! But there is some damage also...Is that some kind of deficiency on younger leaves?, The yellow colour?
If that's iron, i have some chelated fe liquid right away.
Btw i noticed that ec went from 345 to 355 ppm. Maybe i should dilute more?

Hey, already ordered some 35% hydrogen peroxide. Lol, today i noticed that someone else is also living in the system. Some aquatic bacteria
Thats ok lol, i hope it's not root eating goo. But if it is, I'm ready to fight it!!,

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I am still learning the art of RDWC my bro so I would like to hear from @Moe.Red about this, but if this were me and I had no other advice, I would think hard about changing out your res and restarting with a new set of nutrient ratios 1:1:1:1 Cal/mag-Brown-Green-Pink, ppm no more than 200 and see how they respond.

 

[moe.red]

I don't like the looks of this


Can you try to get a couple of clear close ups of the stalk? I'd love to see the roots too please.

 

[moe.red]

I am still learning the art of RDWC my bro so I would like to hear from @Moe.Red about this, but if this were me and I had no other advice, I would think hard about changing out your res and restarting with a new set of nutrient ratios 1:1:1:1 Cal/mag-Brown-Green-Pink, ppm no more than 200 and see how they respond.

No man that is solid advice. I would definatly do this. But if we have a pathogen here we need to resolve that asap as well.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

No man that is solid advice. I would definatly do this. But if we have a pathogen here we need to resolve that asap as well.

Good eye there bro....

 

[Bushman]

Sure Moe!!!

Here

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Sure Moe!!!

HereView attachment 41492
View attachment 41493

Crown rot?

 

[moe.red]

@Bushman

I've been editing your posts to be more easily readable. You are missing one step when you post pics.

This is what it looks like:



When I go to edit, you will see that there is an insert button on your pics:



After you click that insert button, choose Full Image



And the end result is the way your post looks now. Much easier to quickly see by anyone looking at your thread. You will get more / better feedback this way.

 

[moe.red]

What I am seeing here is that we need to pull out that peroxide and start using it. We need to get the root zone healthy again.

I also do not like the stalk near the perlite. You need more airflow there to prevent crown rot which will kill your plant quick if you do not address it.

If you have a fan you can gently blow across the base of your plants, and maybe get that plastic cup out of there with some scissors, then do the res change SLG suggested and finally treat with H2O2, we can recover these plants.