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You smart kids have definitely gone way past my intelligence when it comes to elemental anything. JRCROPTECH was formulated by Josh Neulinger and he has been growing dope a long time and posts massive plant pics regularly on IG. Again it’s my first go with them and am by no means pimpin them but I really like what I see thus far!
 
LJFarming said:
You smart kids have definitely gone way past my intelligence when it comes to elemental anything. JRCROPTECH was formulated by Josh Neulinger and he has been growing dope a long time and posts massive plant pics regularly on IG. Again it’s my first go with them and am by no means pimpin them but I really like what I see thus far!
Click to expand...
I did not know that was the name of his brand. I have seen his IG pictures, not really sold on his formula. But it is better than running Jacks per their formula I would imagine. I have no idea who is packaging his stuff.
Athena was originally formulated by Jungle Boys when it was really Jungle Boys. They have since sold Jungle Boys and Luxx from what I know. I have never heard if they retained Athena or not. Athena was being made by Grow More when they first started out. I know Athena pulls some really shitty stuff. Like for example they buy Calcium Nitrates and add the required Micro Nutrients to the Calcium Nitrate so you are forced to buy their Calcium Nitrate unless you know how to jailbreak around it. Secondly, they post their Magnesium PPM at about half of what is actually in the mix. I used it for a few years but as I mentioned it makes everything smell the same when dried.
I am sticking with Jacks for Veg just to use up what I have and using Masterblend 0-12-24, Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium sulfate later in flower to get more sulphur into the plant. I kind of like the calcium and nitrogen all in one bag so I can lower it at the same time. I might use some calcium chloride the last few weeks to supplement Calcium and back off nitrogen.
Athena Came out with Fade, it is Calcium Chloride and Chlorine with the trace nutrients to replace those lost by not using their Calcium Nitrate. I have tried the stuff but I am not sold on it because the Chlorine kills all the life in the rez.
I need to do some more research on the Calcium Chloride, I know Josh swears by it but I have also heard people say it is not good for the plant to have all that Chloride in the Rez.
 
Anybody reading this have a ballpark of what it costs per grow to run Athena per typical 700 watt LED with 16 plants per 4x4 tray? It seemed like it would be a lot higher than Jacks. I’m not bad mouthing Jacks or Athena at all. I have grown great weed that sells in Cali for more than most hydro growers I know running nutrients that cost 5x more than Jacks. However I believe after running Jacks for a few years that they are missing something. The terps and quality always seemed to turn out very good but as someone said before it seems that if running 3 or 4 strains that the terps are way too similar. I honestly can’t say but I think they were on to something? Salts are cheap compared to anything in a bottle and for hydro/coco is the only way to go IMO! So maybe I will try Athena next. However I do truly feel that JR potentially put more work into their formula as well as if you email Josh or Ramsey they always get back to you. They answer the phone or call you back as well so that’s a big plus for a grower that doesn’t know elemental nothing about nutrients. Ramsey also worked for (grodan? ) rock wool manufacturer for years and I’m pretty sure he brought crop steering to the dope table for us dope growers? I try to fuck around with crop steering KIND OF but it’s another G or 2Gs to upgrade my 6 light room to all the technical equipment necessary to do it properly. For now I’m fine with open ended drip lines and multi feeds everyday. Again as I have said before baby shit easy once the system is in place and no worries about clogged drippers, very expensive pumps, sprinkler valves, and an irrigation controller. Just my thoughts boys and girls as I crack my first beer for the day and wait for the lights to come on in a couple hours.
 
Anthem275 said:
I did not know that was the name of his brand. I have seen his IG pictures, not really sold on his formula. But it is better than running Jacks per their formula I would imagine. I have no idea who is packaging his stuff.
Athena was originally formulated by Jungle Boys when it was really Jungle Boys. They have since sold Jungle Boys and Luxx from what I know. I have never heard if they retained Athena or not. Athena was being made by Grow More when they first started out. I know Athena pulls some really shitty stuff. Like for example they buy Calcium Nitrates and add the required Micro Nutrients to the Calcium Nitrate so you are forced to buy their Calcium Nitrate unless you know how to jailbreak around it. Secondly, they post their Magnesium PPM at about half of what is actually in the mix. I used it for a few years but as I mentioned it makes everything smell the same when dried.
I am sticking with Jacks for Veg just to use up what I have and using Masterblend 0-12-24, Calcium Nitrate and Magnesium sulfate later in flower to get more sulphur into the plant. I kind of like the calcium and nitrogen all in one bag so I can lower it at the same time. I might use some calcium chloride the last few weeks to supplement Calcium and back off nitrogen.
Athena Came out with Fade, it is Calcium Chloride and Chlorine with the trace nutrients to replace those lost by not using their Calcium Nitrate. I have tried the stuff but I am not sold on it because the Chlorine kills all the life in the rez.
I need to do some more research on the Calcium Chloride, I know Josh swears by it but I have also heard people say it is not good for the plant to have all that Chloride in the Rez.
Click to expand...
Aqua turned me on to Potassium Sulfate instead of MAGSuL for the last three weeks of flower when running Jacks and he gets 100% props for that the terps are definitely better using it!

Again I have no elemental knowledge but while running Jacks I would pull 25% per week of the recommended CalNit and replace with GrowMore no N flowering CalMag. I also run Bare Naked ladies after stretch and no leaf with a stem is allowed to stay. My mentor taught me that very little N is needed after stretch as well as to strip the girls. I’m sure this will make 50% of growers say I’m wrong. I’m not looking for an argument 💯Right wrong or indifferent it’s the way I roll. 16 smaller short veg plants per 4x4 tray/light, coco DTW, and after a less than 5 years I’m pulling over 2 per light with very little effort and trimming is easier if you keep the girls naked. Again my opinion and I’m definitely not preaching!

Peace out,

LJ
 
LJFarming said:
Aqua turned me on to Potassium Sulfate instead of MAGSuL for the last three weeks of flower when running Jacks and he gets 100% props for that the terps are definitely better using it!

Again I have no elemental knowledge but while running Jacks I would pull 25% per week of the recommended CalNit and replace with GrowMore no N flowering CalMag. I also run Bare Naked ladies after stretch and no leaf with a stem is allowed to stay. My mentor taught me that very little N is needed after stretch as well as to strip the girls. I’m sure this will make 50% of growers say I’m wrong. I’m not looking for an argument 💯Right wrong or indifferent it’s the way I roll. 16 smaller short veg plants per 4x4 tray/light, coco DTW, and after a less than 5 years I’m pulling over 2 per light with very little effort and trimming is easier if you keep the girls naked. Again my opinion and I’m definitely not preaching!

Peace out,

LJ
Click to expand...
iirc that's what Front Row AG uses in their bloom formula for the extra bump in sulfur. Super important mineral for building terps.
 
LJFarming said:
Aqua turned me on to Potassium Sulfate instead of MAGSuL for the last three weeks of flower when running Jacks and he gets 100% props for that the terps are definitely better using it!

Again I have no elemental knowledge but while running Jacks I would pull 25% per week of the recommended CalNit and replace with GrowMore no N flowering CalMag. I also run Bare Naked ladies after stretch and no leaf with a stem is allowed to stay. My mentor taught me that very little N is needed after stretch as well as to strip the girls. I’m sure this will make 50% of growers say I’m wrong. I’m not looking for an argument 💯Right wrong or indifferent it’s the way I roll. 16 smaller short veg plants per 4x4 tray/light, coco DTW, and after a less than 5 years I’m pulling over 2 per light with very little effort and trimming is easier if you keep the girls naked. Again my opinion and I’m definitely not preaching!

Peace out,

LJ
Click to expand...
Athena I was right around 2.75 per light. And I am in Cali so I know what is quality.
 
LJFarming said:
Anybody reading this have a ballpark of what it costs per grow to run Athena per typical 700 watt LED with 16 plants per 4x4 tray? It seemed like it would be a lot higher than Jacks. I’m not bad mouthing Jacks or Athena at all. I have grown great weed that sells in Cali for more than most hydro growers I know running nutrients that cost 5x more than Jacks. However I believe after running Jacks for a few years that they are missing something. The terps and quality always seemed to turn out very good but as someone said before it seems that if running 3 or 4 strains that the terps are way too similar. I honestly can’t say but I think they were on to something? Salts are cheap compared to anything in a bottle and for hydro/coco is the only way to go IMO! So maybe I will try Athena next. However I do truly feel that JR potentially put more work into their formula as well as if you email Josh or Ramsey they always get back to you. They answer the phone or call you back as well so that’s a big plus for a grower that doesn’t know elemental nothing about nutrients. Ramsey also worked for (grodan? ) rock wool manufacturer for years and I’m pretty sure he brought crop steering to the dope table for us dope growers? I try to fuck around with crop steering KIND OF but it’s another G or 2Gs to upgrade my 6 light room to all the technical equipment necessary to do it properly. For now I’m fine with open ended drip lines and multi feeds everyday. Again as I have said before baby shit easy once the system is in place and no worries about clogged drippers, very expensive pumps, sprinkler valves, and an irrigation controller. Just my thoughts boys and girls as I crack my first beer for the day and wait for the lights to come on in a couple hours.
Click to expand...
Who said Jacks makes terps smell the same?
 
anecdotal - sample size of multiple strains with similar terp profiles all running same nutrients/env (?)
 
LJFarming said:
Aqua turned me on to Potassium Sulfate instead of MAGSuL for the last three weeks of flower when running Jacks and he gets 100% props for that the terps are definitely better using it!

Again I have no elemental knowledge but while running Jacks I would pull 25% per week of the recommended CalNit and replace with GrowMore no N flowering CalMag. I also run Bare Naked ladies after stretch and no leaf with a stem is allowed to stay. My mentor taught me that very little N is needed after stretch as well as to strip the girls. I’m sure this will make 50% of growers say I’m wrong. I’m not looking for an argument 💯Right wrong or indifferent it’s the way I roll. 16 smaller short veg plants per 4x4 tray/light, coco DTW, and after a less than 5 years I’m pulling over 2 per light with very little effort and trimming is easier if you keep the girls naked. Again my opinion and I’m definitely not preaching!

Peace out,

LJ
Click to expand...
Two covalent oxygen bonds. Yikes 😳 I think oxidation Redox is pretty cool 😎 stuff



That's an efficient looking unit for sure. Lots of potential sitting in this molecule. Four oxygen...

imgsrv.png


K2SO4 with sulfuric acid. It forms rhombic pyramids,. A rhombus base attached to four identical scalene triangle

Rhombic_right_pyramid.png


Sulfur + oxygen is the real magic in this one ✨ I believe. Not the K+ as much

I personally start with potassium hydroxide...liberating two hydrogen and two oxygen atoms from sulfuric acid.. Let's calculate molar mass 😆

2 KOH ( aq ) + H 2 SO 4 ( aq ) → K 2 SO 4 ( aq ) + 2 H 2 O ( l ) .

Fishing net...a fishing pole... Same result in the right environment
 
Last edited:
Franksta said:
Two covalent oxygen bonds. Yikes 😳 I think oxidation Redox is pretty cool 😎 stuff



That's an efficient looking unit for sure. Lots of potential sitting in this molecule. Four oxygen...

View attachment 4240


K2SO4 with sulfuric acid. It forms rhombic pyramids,. A rhombus base attached to four identical scalene triangle

View attachment 4241


Sulfur + oxygen is the real magic in this one ✨ I believe. Not the K+ as much
Click to expand...
Ramifications?

I don't speak Chem yet

I need to start reading chemistry books, further understand our little biological synthesizers
 
  • Deleted by Observer
Show…
  • Deleted by Observer
Show…
Observer said:
How much oxygen is too much would one need to factor in their h2o2 usage
Click to expand...
Yeah I read the equation wrong at first also


It's not H202 up there. End product was 2H. Plus 2O.... And I don't think too much oxygen is ever a issue at the roots... Aqueous O2 saturation depends on the 💦 temperature and to lesser degrees atmospheric pressure
 
Last edited:
Franksta said:
Yeah I read the equation wrong at first also


It's not H202 up there. End product was 2H. Plus 2O....
Click to expand...
Ah I see
Franksta said:
And I don't think too much oxygen is ever a issue at the/ roots... Aqueous O2 concentration depends on the 💦 temperature and pressure
Click to expand...
I was underdosing my h2o2 34% - 0.1-0.5 ml
Did 3ml~/gallon this last solution, so what happens if I do 20ml? Or 50?

I got some of it in my mouth, short story I dropped my syringe and squeezed the bottle to get bring it up to the top, I don't have 3 hands though, so I used mouth lol. - don't advise - still taste peroxide.

All good.

Man it's been a rough time

Most of the o2 dissipates (?)

I'ma read my chem book tomorrow, and try to start catching up more.
 
Observer said:
Ah I see

I was underdosing my h2o2 34% - 0.1-0.5 ml
Did 3ml~/gallon this last solution, so what happens if I do 20ml? Or 50?

I got some of it in my mouth, short story I dropped my syringe and squeezed the bottle to get bring it up to the top, I don't have 3 hands though, so I used mouth lol. - don't advise - still taste peroxide.

All good.

Man it's been a rough time

Most of the o2 dissipates (?)

I'ma read my chem book tomorrow, and try to start catching up more.
Click to expand...
Be careful with undiluted peroxide. NOT GOOD

At minimum your teeth 🪥 will be white
 
Observer said:
Yea....I usually don't fuck around with it, just stick my little syringe in lol, little burns on my finger tips
Sometimes

Will never get that In my mouth again, of course I rinsed immediately but it happens fast.
Click to expand...
Yeah 👍 you don't wanna be part of the reaction quite yet


Let it stew into cannabis first
 
The stinky in sulfur during flowering


thiol, also called mercaptan, any of a class of organic chemical compounds similar to the alcohols and phenols but containing a sulfur atom in place of the oxygen atom.

Prenylthiol or 3-methyl-2-butene-1-thiol is a chemical compound. It is one of a group of chemicals that give cannabis its characteristic "skunk-like" aroma.

Prenylthiol
Names
Identifiers
Properties
Hazards[1]
3-Methyl-2-buten-1-thiol V1.svg
Prenyl-mercaptan-3D-balls.png
IUPAC name
3-methylbut-2-ene-1-thiol
Other names
Prenyl mercaptan; 3-Methyl-2-butene-1-thiol; MBT; Prenylthiol; UNII-FDG262156U; 2-Butene-1-thiol, 3-methyl-
CAS Number
  • 5287-45-6
    ☒
3D model (JSmol)
ChEBI
ChemSpider
ECHA InfoCard100.118.632 Edit this at Wikidata
EC Number
  • 610-907-9
PubChem CID
UNII
CompTox Dashboard (EPA)
InChI
  • InChI=1S/C5H10S/c1-5(2)3-4-6/h3,6H,4H2,1-2H3
    Key: GYDPOKGOQFTYGW-UHFFFAOYSA-N
SMILES
  • CC(=CCS)C
Chemical formulaC5H10S
Molar mass102.2 g/mol
GHS labelling:
PictogramsGHS02: FlammableGHS07: Exclamation mark
Cannabis sativa
 
Franksta said:
Yeah I read the equation wrong at first also


It's not H202 up there. End product was 2H. Plus 2O.... And I don't think too much oxygen is ever a issue at the roots... Aqueous O2 saturation depends on the 💦 temperature and to lesser degrees atmospheric pressure
Click to expand...
And the gas makup of the atmosphere
 
Aqua Man said:
And the gas makup of the atmosphere
Click to expand...
Yeah I believe that (I) on the equation represents insoluble and is released as O2 and H2.... Because they are stable forms

atomic hydrogen and oxygen doesn't exist in the atmosphere. Far too reactive.

Both share it's electrons with itself....
 
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Last edited:
So I think whatever happens in cannabis during late flowers is that sulfur is combined into the Sweet... Sour... Umami... Bitter and each of those categories have whole spectrum of different variables.... So infinite possibilities....

Allowing to magnify and guide the process..

Cause sulfur likes to take the place of oxygen....

Specifically, Sulfur likes to take the position of oxygen in the hydroxyl unit of alcohol and highly relevant phenol groups


Phenol (systematically named Benzenol, also called carbolic acid or phenolic acid) is an aromatic organic compound with the molecular formula C6H5OH. It is a white crystalline solid that is volatile. The molecule consists of a phenyl group (−C6H5) bonded to a hydroxy group (−OH). Mildly acidic, it requires careful handling because it can cause chemical burns.
Other names
  • Carbolic acid
  • Phenolic acid
  • Phenylic acid
  • Hydroxybenzene
  • Phenic acid
  • Phenyl alcohol
 
Last edited:
Biofractions... Anything a bee harvest off the plants I really trust in my solution just watching the sugar ratio and avoiding pH swings. Usually let it set some and add streptomyices yeast and probiotics


I think the waxes are really beneficial cause of the variety of carbon chains

I suspect the microbes and plants are able to benefit. The pure comb should have hormones present

I try to capitalize on certain microbiology and insects which are highly beneficial to the plants in multiple ways


PXL_20230528_014912942.jpg
 
Franksta said:
Biofractions... Anything a bee harvest off the plants I really trust in my solution just watching the sugar ratio and avoiding pH swings. Usually let it set some and add streptomyices yeast and probiotics


I think the waxes are really beneficial cause of the variety of carbon chains

I suspect the microbes and plants are able to benefit. The pure comb should have hormones present

I try to capitalize on certain microbiology and insects which are highly beneficial to the plants in multiple ways


View attachment 4493
Click to expand...
image.jpg
Do you think bee pollen would benefit them as well?
 
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