Growing with Amnesia

[Rootsruler]

Stretching and bud development are specialized forms of growth and thus may have specialized growth hormones unless something other than the hormones signal these types of growth, which I doubt. My guess would be that specialized hormones are the signals because hormones are essentially chemical messengers. There may even be a possibility that there could be a conflict. I've read that pre-flowering is the best time to flip. If true, then that might be an indicator of the types of chemical messengers that need to be present. Plants are adaptable, though...

I'm thinking in terms of the quality of that growth and all the processes that are happening in that stage. When we are young we can bounce back and recover quickly. As we get older our regenerative functions decline. I'm trying to catch it in the young stage as those growth hormones are still on the increase and can regenerate fully and quickly.

Again, zero plant science validity but just a hunch I'm going to try out.

 

[Amnesia]

I'm thinking in terms of the quality of that growth and all the processes that are happening in that stage. When we are young we can bounce back and recover quickly. As we get older our regenerative functions decline. I'm trying to catch it in the young stage as those growth hormones are still on the increase and can regenerate fully and quickly.

I understand. I was young once. We know that plants have stages of life. We do too.

Perhaps the best time to flip might be when the plant is best able to transition to the reproductive stage. Arguably, human females are best prepared for reproduction after they complete physical maturity. Both plants and humans can reproduce before then, but I know that for humans, reproduction before the body is ready might not go well. I wouldn't want to dissuade anyone from experimenting, though. Plants are much more adaptable than humans, which may be where comparability ends.

 

[Shaded]

Now you just gotta get in that habit of removing the lower 30% of branches/nodes to really force that energy to be spent on the upper buds!

Lovely looking plants @Amnesia

 

[Rootsruler]

I understand. I was young once. We know that plants have stages of life. We do too.

Perhaps the best time to flip might be when the plant is best able to transition to the reproductive stage.

How would one be able to quantify "when the plant is best able to transition to the reproductive stage"? In your other thread about seedling media we ran into the same issue. Where is the discernable line that signals this stage? Because there is no signal that I can point to I can only use the plants height or time in veg as a marker/threshold.

Of course this is more a generaliazation since the optimal time to flip depends on the genetics of the plant. For example, I was sent 3 clones from a friend. 2 of them responded normally in regards to growth performance. The 3rd didn't. I assumed that it was probably due to shock and the plant stunted. This went on for some time and I worried that I had done something wrong. A week or so later the plant took off and resumed normal growth patterns. In this case I would need to wait for the plant to reach a particular point that I felt was a good time to flip and catch it still in its high growth stage now that I have a better understanding of the growth characteristics of that particular cultivar.

Arguably, human females are best prepared for reproduction after they complete physical maturity.

This is where plant and human reproduction fork off. Cannabis uses photoperiodism to trigger the change in hormonal response to reproduction so at any point in the vegetative stage cannabis can be induced to reproduce(flower). This means the plant doesn't need to reach a particular time frame/level of maturity or height to be ready to reproduce. It is ready when the photoperiod changes to signal flowering. Sea of Green method corroborates this.

 

[Amnesia]

Now you just gotta get in that habit of removing the lower 30% of branches/nodes to really force that energy to be spent on the upper buds!

You're right about that, of course. I have a habit of compartmentalizing my learning and hadn't stepped far into that realm yet. I was just thinking about it this morning, though, as I was removing a few fan leaves from the Black Jacks. They're halfway through week 5 since the flip, so, maybe it would be best to just let them finish. I'm thinking we might harvest in late July.

Lovely looking plants @Amnesia

Thank you! We're feeling much better about both crops. They both started slowly and needed a lot of nurturing early. They responded well to the Gaia Green regimen that we began about mid vegetation.

 

[Shaded]

You're right about that, of course. I have a habit of compartmentalizing my learning and hadn't stepped far into that realm yet. I was just thinking about it this morning, though, as I was removing a few fan leaves from the Black Jacks. They're halfway through week 5 since the flip, so, maybe it would be best to just let them finish. I'm thinking we might harvest in late July.


Thank you! We're feeling much better about both crops. They both started slowly and needed a lot of nurturing early. They responded well to the Gaia Green regimen that we began about mid vegetation.

Yep I usually don't touch my plants or induce any stress after week 3 of flower

Things you can start to incorporate into future grows if you so desire!

 

[Amnesia]

How would one be able to quantify "when the plant is best able to transition to the reproductive stage"? In your other thread about seedling media we ran into the same issue. Where is the discernable line that signals this stage? Because there is no signal that I can point to I can only use the plants height or time in veg as a marker/threshold.

There are indicators. Labeling them seemed to be part of the problem. Start with what we know.

We know, or have accepted as being fact, that a plant does not need nutrition for its first few weeks of life. That means there's a point at which it does need nutrition. We may not be able to precisely identify that point, but we know it exists. Of course, it probably isn't reducible to a specific moment in time. More likely, it occurs during a span of days. Nevertheless, we know it happens. Before it happens, the word "seedling" seems to be a good label. After it happens, "vegetation" similarly seems adequate for most purposes.

We know, or have accepted as being fact, that at some point, leaf phyllotaxy changes from opposite decussate to alternate spiral. The latter is thought to indicate the plant's readiness or increasing preparedness for flowering. (Source: Understanding and using cannabis leaves.)

Those are two examples of observable indicators of a plant's stage of development. There are more. Pre-flowers may be an important one. I've read that many growers consider the best time to flip to be when pre-flowers are present.

 

[Amnesia]

Yep I usually don't touch my plants or induce any stress after week 3 of flower

That's mostly my thinking. I think what we may want to consider is how much plant stress is desirable versus undesirable. Some stress can cause plants to put more resources into fruit production. I've also read that some growers induce stress to generate the production of anthocyanins for the purpose of increasing bag appeal.

Things you can start to incorporate into future grows if you so desire!

Oh, I'll get there. It will be easier to refine my techniques as I get past the bigger challenges. My main goal at present is to gain experience. I have my third and fourth grows in tents now.

 

[Amnesia]

Cannabis uses photoperiodism to trigger the change in hormonal response to reproduction so at any point in the vegetative stage cannabis can be induced to reproduce(flower).

If that were entirely true, how does the plant know to begin pre-flower mode without any changes to the lighting? They do that, you know. I have some in a tent now that are showing pre-flower structures, but the light hasn't changed. So, sure, changing the light is a trigger. But is it the only trigger? I contend that it isn't.

From an evolutionary perspective, photoperiodism is likely an adaptation to changing seasons. I would agree that that's true for plants that evolved where there are seasons. Then there are plants that evolved near the equator. My understanding is that the only change is in the direction of sunlight, not the periodicity of sunlight. Lacking photoperiodicity, those plants must use some other mechanism.

 

[Amnesia]

My latest acquisition from AC Infinity arrived today. These are for the 28"x28" tent.

 

[tobh]

lemme know what you think of their clip fans. i tend to go fairly cheap with clip fans given i change em often enough, but I like the ACI gear I have quite a bit.

 

[Amnesia]

lemme know what you think of their clip fans. i tend to go fairly cheap with clip fans given i change em often enough, but I like the ACI gear I have quite a bit.

I use cheap fans, too, but most of them only have two speeds that are too powerful for my small tent. I use them in my 2x4.

This is my second one of these. They have 10 speeds, and the slower speeds are better for the small tent. ACI says they shouldn't run continuously, so I use the controller to put them on an intermittent duty cycle--something like 45 minutes on and 15 minutes off. (I run the cheap fans continuously and keep a spare.) Other than setting on/off times, I can't think of a reason to have a clip fan on a controller. They can run without one and oscillation can't be set from the controller. So, if a controller or slow speeds aren't needed, then cheap fans may be the better option.

 

[tobh]

I use cheap fans, too, but most of them only have two speeds that are too powerful for my small tent. I use them in my 2x4.

This is my second one of these. They have 10 speeds, and the slower speeds are better for the small tent. ACI says they shouldn't run continuously, so I use the controller to put them on an intermittent duty cycle--something like 45 minutes on and 15 minutes off. (I run the cheap fans continuously and keep a spare.) Other than setting on/off times, I can't think of a reason to have a clip fan on a controller. They can run without one and oscillation can't be set from the controller. So, if a controller or slow speeds aren't needed, then cheap fans may be the better option.

dope, appreciate the info!

 

[Amnesia]

It's day 3 of the 6th week since the flip for the Black Jack grow. They were watered with supplements yesterday. I can't find any pistils that are changing color yet. My guess is they have at least another 4 weeks left. I'm still thinking about a partial harvest, but that decision will have to wait. The last time they were fed was about 3 weeks ago.




The Amnesia Haze plants are doing well. They were watered with supplements two days ago. They didn't do much for a long time, but now they're really beginning to grow well. I'm hoping I can keep them in veg till the Black Jacks are done so I can move these to the bigger tent. They'll have much more room there. Then I'll shut down the tent they're in to reconfigure it. I have the new ACI 69 Pro and the inline fan installed, but still need to configure the heater and humidifier for the new controller.

Once the tent is ready, I'll move the little clone plant at the bottom of the picture back into this tent so it can finish in style. It seems healthy, but is slow growing like the others. The internodal distances are much shorter and that's a difference.

 

[Amnesia]

I finished converting my smaller tent to the AC Infinity controller 69 Pro. I used the same settings for both tents. Now that this is done, I'm tempted to change to a light that can take advantage of the controller's sunrise and sunset feature. The light that's in the tent now may be too powerful for the tent, so I've been thinking about changing the light for a while. If I decide to do it, I'd probably do it before starting my next grows in the fall.

 

[Amnesia]

My usual Saturday grow diary update...

I think I've dialed in my smaller tent. The Controller 69 and the inline fan made the difference. While tweaking the settings on the controllers, I decided to lower the target humidity from 60% to 55% with a 2% buffer. The plants seem to be okay with the change. The temperature is set to 76º with a 2º buffer. It's nice to have the same type of controllers in both tents.

The flowering Black Jacks are developing nice-looking colas and the pistils are beginning to change color. The buds are getting heavy, so I've had to add support for some of them. They're in the 7th week since the flip. There are signs of too much N, but I don't think there's much that can be done about it now. Downward curling leaf tips are most noticeable after watering. The last time they were fed was 3 1/2 weeks ago. I'm seeing very few fading leaves. I'm hoping for a good harvest in a few weeks.



The three Amnesia Haze plants are also doing well. Two of them are waiting to move to the big tent (2x4) for flowering. So, they need to stay in veg for a few more weeks, even though they're close to being ready to flip. I can't flip the tent they're in because there's also a young clone in the tent.

This little clone plant is also waiting for the plants in the big tent to finish. It will stay in the smaller tent. It clearly needs more attention. I believe I'm seeing several problems. Maybe too much N and too little K. It was growing slowly until I started spraying the top of the soil once a day with plain water. Thinking about the perched water table, the pot might be too tall and narrow, so the roots weren't deep enough to reach enough water for the plant to grow. It responded well to moistening the top layer of the soil, but then, with the accelerated growth, nutrient problems appeared. I can't up-pot it yet because there's not enough room in the tent. I am thinking about adding some Great White.

 

[Amnesia]

My Saturday grow diary update:

I'm out of tent space. I have plants in three stages of growth and the younger plants are waiting for the oldest plants to finish. There isn't much to be done till the flowering plants are harvested.

In tent one, the Black Jacks are in their 8th week of flowering. I'm guessing the bigger of the two could be harvested in about two weeks. About a third of the pistils have changed color, so I started looking at the trichomes and most appear cloudy. The rest are still clear. The smaller of the two plants looks like it will need three or four weeks. The big plant is crowding it.

In tent two, there are three Amnesia Haze. Two were grown from seed and the third is a clone, so it's much smaller. The larger plants recently had a growth spurt. They look like they are ready to flower but there's not enough room in the tent. So, they're waiting for the Black Jacks in tent one to be harvested. I'm thinking about bending the tops.

The little clone in tent two isn't getting enough light because it's in the shade of the larger plants. So, it's starting to stretch. It will need to be up-potted soon, too. I plan to put it in a 5-gallon pot. I'll be using mycorrhizae, too.

Some pictures:

Here are the two flowering Black Jack plants in the larger of the two tents. They're the same strain, but they grew very differently. The one on the right is the master of the tent. The one on the left is a slow-growing mutant. I'm thinking of harvesting the big one before the small one to make room in the tent for the larger of the Amnesia Haze.







Here, in the smaller tent, are the Amnesia Haze plants. The two big ones suddenly decided to grow rapidly, after growing slowly since they were seedlings. The one in the back is about six inches from the light. I raised the light as far as it would go earlier in the week. I'm hoping to be able to transfer it to the big tent within a few weeks. I'm not sure if I'll be able to avoid topping or bending the two main stems. The smaller one should be able to stay in this tent for a while longer. Then there's the little clone at the bottom. It should be able to finish in this tent. It is starting to stretch because it's in the shade of the big plants, so after I took the picture, I put it on a stand to raise it up about 12 inches. That should help it.







Finally, here is a picture of a mother and child that decided to graze in front of our kitchen window. They weren't interested in posing.

 

[Amnesia]

Saturday Grow Diary Update — July 15th

All the plants appear to be healthy. I'm waiting for the Black Jacks to finish so I can move the Amnesia Haze to the bigger tent, which has become the flowering tent. The smaller tent seems to work well for vegetation—for a while. So, I seem to be learning the value of having separate tents that are specialized for the stages of plant growth. I just need to do better at timing sprouting and growth to avoid a bottleneck in the queue.

I don't know where I'll dry and cure the plants. I thought about buying a wardrobe box, the type used for moving, but the price for one box is $25. That's $11 more than a 4x8 sheet of OSB sheathing. So, for a moment, I considered making a box, but I still don't have a place to put it. Last time, I used the tent I grew the plants in. I won't be able to do that this time, so it seems I'll need to clean a closet.

Black Jacks: Waiting for buds to ripen can test a person's patience. So, it's understandable how some growers might harvest too soon. These plants are three days into their ninth week of 12/12. I'm optimistic about having a good yield. These aren't getting any more nutrients from here to harvest.

Plant #1. It looks like this plant will finish before #2, probably near the end of July. When it's harvested, Amnesia Haze #1 will take its place. I decided to try molasses. I added two tablespoons of molasses to one gallon of water. I only did it with this plant so I could compare it to the other plant.

Here's a picture of the best cola on this plant:



Plant #2. This one might be one or two weeks behind #1. That might be due to much of it being in #1's shade. I plan to move it closer to the light when #1 is harvested.

Here's a picture of a cola from this plant:



Amnesia Haze: Some growers mentioned how a plant can grow slowly and then suddenly change to rapid growth. These plants did that. They were painfully slow growing during their early life. Now, the problem has become how to slow their growth while they wait for the flowering tent. I suspect they'll take a long time to ripen, too.

Plant #1. I decided to take about six inches off the two main stems. I am conservative about pruning plants, so I've been slow to cut the tops. They're almost to the light, though, so this will have to be done soon, as in, today.

Plant #2. This plant should be fine as it is till the flowering tent is ready.

Plant #3. This is a clone from #1. It's in a one-gallon pot. As soon as there's space in the veg tent, this plant will be transplanted to a five-gallon pot.

Clones. I've decided to try to clone the tops from #1. I don't know what I will do with them if they root. Getting some practice at cloning won't hurt, though, so I'll try it to see what happens. I'm thinking growing them outside might work if they grow with the age characteristics of their much older mother plant.

Here's the last picture of the two too-tall stems on plant #1. The soil for cloning the tops is being moistened as I write this. These obviously need some defoliation. It's hard to do while they're in the tent. So, my plan is to top the big one and wait a week or so for it to recover. Then I'll pull them out and defoliate both. Soon after, there should be space in the big tent.

 

[Amnesia]

These hopeful clones are in their third day. They look okay to me. The RH was 67% when I took the picture. There is some slight wilting. I have continued to mist the leaves every few hours during the day.

There are signs of Mg deficiency on the right plant. That must mean that the mother plant needs some Mg. She's due for watering today, so I'll supplement her water. I'm not sure what to do about the clone here. Maybe sprinkling some Epsom Salts on her soil might help.

I'm thinking about how long I should keep some water in the saucers. My last clone seemed to start growing when I let them dry, but that was after about a week. So, it's probably too soon.