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Is there any truth to the saying 'bigger the roots, bigger the fruits' when growing cannabis?

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Rootsruler said:
So the takeaway I'm seeing here is with fertigation a large root system is not necessary due to the frequent feeds?
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Pretty much, a small root system can support a large plant, I'm sure theres a maximum correlation amount of root zone-to-canopy size but yea, a bigger pot also does not mean 100% or so of that media is actually going to rootzone,

SO, you balance that pot size with you're vertical space available.

A 5x5 tent with 5-6 foot of ceiling, anything more than a gallon really is a waste/loss of utilization and optimization, and efficiency, using more media than is actually needed for example.

I used HALF of the 1 gallon bags of coco on an unoptimized watering schedule and still did not have to break my back watering, just once or twice a day, coco perlite, even through flower, but again, not optimized, didn't need alot of media, took most the space up in the tent still, had a few feet left to work with for canopy.



Smaller media volume leads to a tight/compact dense root zone, and the growth media plays a role as well.
 
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Doobie said:
I have been reading alot of good things about the autopots. I looked for 1 gallon autopots but the smallest ones I found were 3 gallon versions. I always thought that bottom feeding coco was a no go.
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I dont see why not, the coco will act like a wick alongside the roots.

People do "swamp" grows where they just put there fabric pots in trays and flood the tray. They let the pots/plants absorb and then can drain excess water.


Doobie said:
But with my current Grow I am learning to fertigate when needed and I have not had any issues so far. So I am not feeding until runoff every time. Once a day at most. So I bet if you top feed once a week until runoff in autopots you can have great success.
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it just boils down to the root zone environment condition/variables.

And feeding till run off is not a requirement, or end all be all.


a balance between E.C, pH, O2 and WC% is.
 
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Remember there is a difference between root mass, root structure and container size.

You can have the same root mass in a 1 gal pot and a 3 gal pot. Just because the pot is bigger doesn’t mean it has a larger root mass. The roots are just more dense in a smaller container and thus requires more effort in keeping a stable root zone and supply of nutrients. Gas exchange is faster because of less media and growth is increased.

The term rootbound as it is used by us cannabis growers is 99% BS. They are not rootbound, we are simply not looking after the needs well enough to replenish the small amount of media.
 
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Doobie said:
I have been reading alot of good things about the autopots. I looked for 1 gallon autopots but the smallest ones I found were 3 gallon versions. I always thought that bottom feeding coco was a no go. But with my current Grow I am learning to fertigate when needed and I have not had any issues so far. So I am not feeding until runoff every time. Once a day at most. So I bet if you top feed once a week until runoff in autopots you can have great success.
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The whole idea behind the autopots in my mind is no top feeding needed.I only half feed my pots after I transplant into the AP's the first time then they feed off the bottom. I use Promix & perlite I know nothing about Coco, Promix is too simple to want to change
 
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Pipecarver said:
I know Moe used them for a while but I don't know why he stopped, seems so simple maybe that's why, too easy for him.
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I went to RDWC hydro because I do believe bigger roots = bigger fruits.

Not just bigger, but more efficient IMO.

As Aqua said, it is not just the pot size tho. It's the whole method being used, how you feed, how you oxygenate - they all play a part.
 
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Aqua Man said:
Remember there is a difference between root mass, root structure and container size.

You can have the same root mass in a 1 gal pot and a 3 gal pot. Just because the pot is bigger doesn’t mean it has a larger root mass. The roots are just more dense in a smaller container and thus requires more effort in keeping a stable root zone and supply of nutrients. Gas exchange is faster because of less media and growth is increased.

The term rootbound as it is used by us cannabis growers is 99% BS. They are not rootbound, we are simply not looking after the needs well enough to replenish the small amount of media.
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Would you suggest running a 1 gal with a photo plant in coco? Because coco is an inert substrate the only ion source would come from what you are feeding correct?
 
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Correct, "You are what you Eat", I prefer 3-5 gal material bags in my 4x4 and 3x3 indoor climate controlled micro climate tents!, Out doors Plants will grow huge root systems, media matters, we use SS or super soil mixtures to start plants outdoors too. SSgrower my 2 cents
 
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Rootsruler said:
Would you suggest running a 1 gal with a photo plant in coco? Because coco is an inert substrate the only ion source would come from what you are feeding correct?
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Only if you can maintain the stability of ph, EC, and WC. Otherwise you will cause yourself issues.

Its all a balance. If you have an autofeed system i say yes go for it. If you are hand watering then 2-5 gal may be a better option.

Growth increase from using the least media possible is 100% contingent on ability to maintain a stable root zone. If you can’t it will be a hindrance and cause issues or what people incorrectly refer to as rootbound.
 
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Aqua Man said:
Only if you can maintain the stability of ph, EC, and WC. Otherwise you will cause yourself issues.

Its all a balance. If you have an autofeed system i say yes go for it. If you are hand watering then 2-5 gal may be a better option.

Growth increase from using the least media possible is 100% contingent on ability to maintain a stable root zone. If you can’t it will be a hindrance and cause issues or what people incorrectly refer to as rootbound.
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So we're keeping a smaller container to sequester the roots for better O² exchange by not doing a large feed then allowing dryback but rather small feeds to keep the WC% consistent trying to find the WC level where they can optimize their O² exchange?

I have an auto irrigate system I made so I can control feed frequency and amounts at every event. I'll follow @Observer recommendations to start and spend a few days dialing in the WC%.
 
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Rootsruler said:
So we're keeping a smaller container to sequester the roots for better O² exchange by not doing a large feed then allowing dryback but rather small feeds to keep the WC% consistent trying to find the WC level where they can optimize their O² exchange?

I have an auto irrigate system I made so I can control feed frequency and amounts at every event. I'll follow @Observer recommendations to start and spend a few days dialing in the WC%.
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Each fertigation brings in o2 and the higher ratio of media exposed means better gas exchange. WC is an important factor but you can still have drybacks. They just aren’t as necessary or impactful as in bigger pots. You still have drybacks they just happen much faster and do not need to be as drastic
 
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Aqua Man said:
Only if you can maintain the stability of ph, EC, and WC. Otherwise you will cause yourself issues.

Its all a balance. If you have an autofeed system i say yes go for it. If you are hand watering then 2-5 gal may be a better option.

Growth increase from using the least media possible is 100% contingent on ability to maintain a stable root zone. If you can’t it will be a hindrance and cause issues or what people incorrectly refer to as rootbound.
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Hey Aqua man....Root bound to me is when I see stalling in the plants growth in small pots. When I start seeds in solo cups there is daily progress, then after about 2-3 weeks I can notice a change in growth where the top doesn't grow upwards and over a day or two I can notice the stall. It happens when I don't get them out of the small cups and the roots wraps the bottom and its all root around the inside of the cup. I've called that rootbound but you say that's the wrong term?? and if I do??? something other than transplant It will grow without the accompanied stunting? or have I read that wrong?
 
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Aqua Man said:
Remember there is a difference between root mass, root structure and container size.

You can have the same root mass in a 1 gal pot and a 3 gal pot. Just because the pot is bigger doesn’t mean it has a larger root mass. The roots are just more dense in a smaller container and thus requires more effort in keeping a stable root zone and supply of nutrients. Gas exchange is faster because of less media and growth is increased.
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Aqua Man said:
The term rootbound as it is used by us cannabis growers is 99% BS. They are not rootbound, we are simply not looking after the needs well enough to replenish the small amount of media.
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I wanted to say something along these lines too, but aqua said it better though.


I see the term being misused A LOT, mainly from reddit lol.
 
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Pipecarver said:
Hey Aqua man....Root bound to me is when I see stalling in the plants growth in small pots. When I start seeds in solo cups there is daily progress, then after about 2-3 weeks I can notice a change in growth where the top doesn't grow upwards and over a day or two I can notice the stall. It happens when I don't get them out of the small cups and the roots wraps the bottom and its all root around the inside of the cup. I've called that rootbound but you say that's the wrong term?? and if I do??? something other than transplant It will grow without the accompanied stunting? or have I read that wrong?
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Yea that's not rootbound, they are circling the bottom of the container and then they'll continue circling up, growing a denser root ball, ik ur not asking me tho

But are those solos with soil, and organic amendments?

""We are simply not looking after the needs well enough to replenish the small amount of media."""
 
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Observer said:
Yea that's not rootbound, they are circling the bottom of the container and then they'll continue circling up, growing a denser root ball, ik ur not asking me tho

But are those solos with soil, and organic amendments?

""We are simply not looking after the needs well enough to replenish the small amount of media."""
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Well the plants stunt in the small pots for me, what is it if not root bound? I know were just talking semantics here but what is root bound then? The term came from somewhere, I'm just assuming a full pot of roots and unhealthy looking leaves that thrive when transplanted was root bound.but your saying a better feed schedule and more O2 access will eliminate the...root bound symptom even in small pots?
 
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Pipecarver said:
Well the plants stunt in the small pots for me, what is it if not root bound? I know were just talking semantics here but what is root bound then? The term came from somewhere, I'm just assuming a full pot of roots and unhealthy looking leaves that thrive when transplanted was root bound.but your saying a better feed schedule and more O2 access will eliminate the...root bound symptom even in small pots?
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From what I'm understanding it won't get root bound if you are feeding it at a rate that doesn't flood the root ball and put the roots essentially under water. As long as they are getting a fairly constant flow of water at a rate that maintains a WC in the soil that allows them to do their O² exchanges that seems to be the goldilocks zone you want to put them in.
 
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Pipecarver said:
Hey Aqua man....Root bound to me is when I see stalling in the plants growth in small pots. When I start seeds in solo cups there is daily progress, then after about 2-3 weeks I can notice a change in growth where the top doesn't grow upwards and over a day or two I can notice the stall. It happens when I don't get them out of the small cups and the roots wraps the bottom and its all root around the inside of the cup. I've called that rootbound but you say that's the wrong term?? and if I do??? something other than transplant It will grow without the accompanied stunting? or have I read that wrong?
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Correct. If you can maintain the rootzone they will be fine. Round bound would be when there is not enough space for the roots. The roots grow like that because thats where they are getting the most moisture and o2. Typically the bottom and outsides.

I had pictures showing this on the other site. The type of container also plays a role. Fabric are less likely to grow like that because of the gas exchange.
 
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Aqua Man said:
Correct. If you can maintain the rootzone they will be fine. Round bound would be when there is not enough space for the roots. The roots grow like that because thats where they are getting the most moisture and o2. Typically the bottom and outsides.

I had pictures showing this on the other site. The type of container also plays a role. Fabric are less likely to grow like that because of the gas exchange.
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I've not seen fabric pots get root wrapped, the roots grow through the soil not around the inside of the pot. I have a large garbage bag full of old fabric pots I don't know what to do with. I can't see me getting out of the Autopots and using them again.
 
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Pipecarver said:
Well the plants stunt in the small pots for me, what is it if not root bound? I know were just talking semantics here but what is root bound then? The term came from somewhere, I'm just assuming a full pot of roots and unhealthy looking leaves that thrive when transplanted was root bound.but your saying a better feed schedule and more O2 access will eliminate the...root bound symptom even in small pots?
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I'd say rootbound is when a plant has out-grown its container, there's no more space for roots, take a 1 gallon of soil for instance, eventually that soil will be devoid of nutrients and can no longer support the plants needs, compared to its size, stage and Evironmemt.
 
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Aqua Man said:
Correct. If you can maintain the rootzone they will be fine. Round bound would be when there is not enough space for the roots. The roots grow like that because thats where they are getting the most moisture and o2. Typically the bottom and outsides.

I had pictures showing this on the other site. The type of container also plays a role. Fabric are less likely to grow like that because of the gas exchange.
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So once your pot is full of roots, as long as you maintain a constant source of water at a particular level, the plant won't need to continue growing roots and will utilize what you are feeding it with the existing roots it has?
 
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Rootsruler said:
So once your pot is full of roots, as long as you maintain a constant source of water at a particular level, the plant won't need to continue growing roots and will utilize what you are feeding it with the existing roots it has?
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No if the pot is full of roots it will be rootbound. But to that point when was the last time you seen a pot of a solid rootball?

By that i mean from the middle of the soil top to bottom and sides. The entire media filled.

I came close in 1 gal but never have. But again just because you can do it doesn’t mean you should or its the best method for YOU.

You need to balance it to fit YOUR needs. If you can’t meet the needs it will only cause you problems.

Its a high demand grow and REQUIRES automation.

Thats not for everyone. The best way to grow is the one that you can maintain healthy plants. Much like co2 its not necessary but if done right can have a huge impact on growth rates. Only this if done wrong can be catastrophic
 
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