PH Levels for Cannabis Explained by Aqua Man

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH

This will be a simple guide leaving out a lot of information. So lets get started with a couple of definitions to help you understand.

What is PH?​

PH is a measurement of how alkaline or acid a solution is based on measuring hydrogen ions. It tells us nothing more than the ratio of acidic to alkaline elements. It does not tell us how much of each the solution contains or the alkalinity of the water.

pH at it's core is a measure of the relative amount of free hydrogen and hydroxyl ions ratio. Ie H+ verses OH-. Quantified in molar mass

The pH scale is logarithmic and inversely indicates the activity of hydrogen ions in the solution.

So each, 0.1 increments is either double or half the concentration.... pH 7 to 8 would be a 10x fold increase in OH- ions

Whereas pH 7 to 5 would be a 100x fold increase of H+

pH=−log⁡(H+)≈−log⁡([H+])

Sulfuric hydrogen ion is a great 👍 acidic H+ anchor; Potassium hydroxide is a useful source for the hydroxyl OH- component. But both need to be tightly controlled. ( Contributed by @Franksta )

What is alkalinity?​

Alkalinity is the measurement of the waters buffering capacity (ability to neutralize acids). Its the total amount of carbonate and bicarbonate in the water that affects its ability to resist change to PH. If you know the alkalinity you can actually calculate the amount of acid of varying types needed to reach your target PH but we wont get into that.


So now we have a basic understanding of the difference lets get into some examples of source water and how alkalinity will affect PH.

RO and Distilled water​

Ro and Distilled water is very low in mineral content containing carbonate or bicarbonate sources, we know this because if we test the ppm its usually under 40 and as low as 0ppm. This means it has a very low alkalinity (ability to neutralize acids) and is easily influenced by anything added that's acidic. But likewise it does not contain acid and is easily influenced by anything added that's basic. This results in a very unstable PH that can be easily influenced by anything added or anything its added to. In hydro the ideal ppm of carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an adequate buffer will be 50-100ppm with 75ppm being the target. Less than this and PH may swing to fast and be unstable, more and it will not drift enough and will require too much acid that could affect nutrient ratio's negatively depending on the acid used. By adding alkalinity and then acid we provide a more stable PH because adding more of either will have less impact on the overall ratio of acidic to basic elements

When used in hydro it should have alkalinity (a buffer) added back to prevent wild PH swings. Any source of carbonates, bicarbonates, silicates or hydroxides will work to create alkalinity. Sources i would recommend would be calcium carbonate, potassium bicarbonate (commonly sold as PH up) and finally what i would consider the best option is potassium silicate as it is a source of potassium and silica which are both excellent for cannabis. When using RO or distilled you will want to add back some calcium and magnesium if your nutrients are not designed for RO/distilled water as that's usually what Ro filters are removing for the majority. But most cal/mag is in the form of nitrate and provides no alkalinity (buffering capacity) so adding one of the previously mentioned or other is still a must.

When used in soil this unstable PH is actually IMO beneficial if you have a pre buffered soil (which you should) This means the water will have no impact on the PH potential (more on this later) of the soil and will almost instantly be influenced by the soil to the take on the PH of the soil makeup. This is why i feel we do not need to be PHing our nutrient solution for soil grows (unlike soiless and hydro). The soil is what will adjust the PH of our nutrient solution.

Tap Water​

OK we all know tap water varies a lot form place to place and I will explain the basics of how to determine if your tap water is suitable or not for use. First we want the PPM and second we want the makeup of that ppm if available. Generally speaking the majority of the PPM makeup will be calcium carbonate. This is used to buffer the water supply and prevent acidic conditions that erode the coatings and will break down piping and leach them into the water supply such a lead (Flint Michigan ring a bell?) So we can generally assume the majority of the PPM in tap water is likely calcium carbonate but also some others like magnesium, sulfur, phospahte, iron etc. So if you have a ppm of 100-200ppm you can assume roughly 50-75% of that is calcium carbonate. Remember our target is 75ppm carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an ideal alkalinity (hope we are starting to see how import alkalinity is and we can't just go by PH) Now there are some cases when some sodium may be used such as sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda (can also be used as a buffer in a pinch but not recommended as a long term option) so we can google our local water report and see the makeup of the ppm in the water.

Soil PH potential​

Now when we buy a prebufferd soil like most of the ones we use they come "Prebuffered" (alkalinity adjusted) what does this mean? This means the company has added amendments that when water is added the resulting PH of the water in the soil will be in a favorable range for growing our plants. Often times peat is used to lower PH and lime is used to raise PH in these soils. Just like in water we want to control the alkalinity (buffering capacity) of the soil to have a stable PH that is not easily influenced by adding things such as nutrients or other. Unlike hydro and soiless where we control the alkalinity (buffering capacity) of the water by adding it directly to the water it is applied to the soil. Which brings me back to my point of we don't need to PH our nutrient solution in soil because the soil provides the buffering and will adjust the PH. Now things like lime and peat break down slowly over time and only soluble elements will impact PH so this is how they control the PH in soil over long periods of time, because it breaks down slowly and only a small amount is soluble at a time its unlikely after a grow it has been depleted. But if we are reusing the soil we should be looking at re amending the buffering capacity before using again to ensure there is enough to last through the next grow. Often times farmers will do this once a year before seeding crops.

Effects of nutrients and source water on PH​

First the PH down acids we use tend to break down much faster than the alkaline sources we use in both hydro and soil. This is one reason we see a hydro systems PH generally rise over time unless something is creating more acid like decaying roots in which case we may actually see PH going down. Typically a PH increase of 0.2 in a 24 hr period is desirable and by adjusting the alkalinity we can control the PH drift. In the case of soil the acids used to bring PH down before feeding break down quickly and the alkaline and acidic buffer we have created minimizes the impact so they are really of not much benefit and have virtually no impact on long term PH potential of the soil. This is why we can't use them to lower high soil PH once we have an alkaline source buildup. However in hydro and coco PHing the nutrient solution is important because unlike soil there is not an adequate buffer established although in coco it is possible to do so.
Generally speaking the ratio's of nutrients we use will be acidic so when we get a buildup of nutrients we will almost always see PH drop. This is where you often hear ppl say flush the media. What this does is dilutes the dissolved elements and will remove some from the media in runoff. Another factor that contributes to PH changes are tge sources of nitrogen used. Ammoniacal nitrogen can cause PH in media to drop. This is due to the release of h+ ions from ion exchange. Whereas Nitrate nitrogen does the opposite and will cause PH in the media to rise when taken up by the plants.

Conversely a water source with high alkalinity can build up in the media and cause the PH potential of the soil to rise over time and in turn the PH of the water added to it. This is the reason we should look at the alkalinity of the water source not the PH as PH cannot measure the potential influence but rather only result.

Often in both circumstances its a good idea to flush the media to remove excess amount of available elements that may be affecting the PH negatively.

I'm gonna stop there and if anyone has questions i will do my best to answer them. If you have something you would like to add please do.


Aqua Man
 
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I think a live system with bennies and enzymes with increased DO as high as possible and or fog/atomized mist chambers with DO sat solution running through is youre most optimum.
It is the best that I have been able to put together.

But I am not sure about the bennies. I think it is the way to go, but I need to put this to the test with a side by side with sterile.
 
It is the best that I have been able to put together.

But I am not sure about the bennies. I think it is the way to go, but I need to put this to the test with a side by side with sterile.
It would be easier to pressurize and cool a solution and increase higher DO and do burst injections at the rootzone perhaps?
 
Fair question. I only have assumptions.
Temperature, pH trend, sugar (energy source) is the other big factor you want to consider... All things being the same


It's a lot of variables here Moe. But if you see inhibiton that should be a dead ringer
 
Show me a link to what you are talking about.

When I look at hanna, they are measuing CaCO3 which is calcium carbonate. Same as the test strips.

Range0 to 500 ppm CaCO₃
Exactly what i mean potassium silicate while alkaline does not form carbonates like CaC03 thats measured by KH tests for carbonates.

With that said KH is almost always used to test because they are by far the most common sources of buffers.

So i think its not possible to measure the buffer that silicates provide with that test.

I haven’t dug into it but with what I understand in my mind that makes sense.

Just a fast search.IMG_0949.png
 
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Exactly what i mean potassium silicate while alkaline does not form carbonates like CaC03 thats measured by KH tests for carbonates.

With that said KH is almost always used to test because they are by far the most common sources of buffers.

So i think its not possible to measure the buffer that silicates provide with that test.

I haven’t dug into it but with what I understand in my mind that makes sense.

Just a fast search.
I suspect it's added buffer capacity if it's staying soluble and not easily forming precipitation

It's obvious absorbed well in the plants

Seems like buffers are the more the merrier... Diversity of usable combinations.... And finding that sweet spot

Solubility diversity and increasing ppm.. ppm have limits that need to be observed
 
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What's the microbe population been doing with all the extra oxygen? Exploding? The same or less...
Imo nothing changes with microbes except they have all the o2 they want keeping the population healthy…. Now tgis is only as @Moe.Red says an assumption but I can’t see how it would increase population other than if it were negatively affected by o2 to start with.

Imo microbe populations will continue to be governed by food source so long as environment is adequate
 
Exactly what i mean potassium silicate while alkaline does not form carbonates like CaC03 thats measured by KH tests for carbonates.

With that said KH is almost always used to test because they are by far the most common sources of buffers.

So i think its not possible to measure the buffer that silicates provide with that test.

I haven’t dug into it but with what I understand in my mind that makes sense.

Just a fast search.
I'm picking up what you are laying down H20mbre, I just can't figure out the instrumentation.

I guess I need to be able to measure everything to really detect a buffer. That is a ton of positively charged molecules that are getting missed. And clearly the nutes will add to this.

I may have to go on belief that I have a buffer.
 
Imo nothing changes with microbes except they have all the o2 they want keeping the population healthy…. Now tgis is only as @Moe.Red says an assumption but I can’t see how it would increase population other than if it were negatively affected by o2 to start with.

Imo microbe populations will continue to be governed by food source so long as environment is adequate
They are going to grow to the food source, which in our case is carbs coming from the plant. But you can sure kill them off with too little O2.
 
I'm picking up what you are laying down H20mbre, I just can't figure out the instrumentation.

I guess I need to be able to measure everything to really detect a buffer. That is a ton of positively charged molecules that are getting missed. And clearly the nutes will add to this.

I may have to go on belief that I have a buffer.
Yeah i think we confirmed my prior statement of this is probably not going to be as easy as we think. Bit this discussion has taught me a lot. Even if its not so feasibly tested i came away with a better understanding so thats a BIG win for me
 
But you CAN test potassium bicarbonate for effectiveness with varying acids. I know you busy af but its also a commonly used buffer that could ahed some light on ideal doses and which acid the most beneficial with it
 
Yeah i think we confirmed my prior statement of this is probably not going to be as easy as we think. Bit this discussion has taught me a lot. Even if its not so feasibly tested i came away with a better understanding so thats a BIG win for me
Yeah me too. But I'm not giving up yet. I'm gonna sleep on this.
 
My biggest take away is that silicates are almost self regulate ph in a sense. The more acidic the water gets the more soluble and harder they fight to raise PH. The more alkaline the less soluble and less they try to raise PH.

I had no idea
 
bicarbonate reacts with oxygen, one hydrogen ion and one bicarbonate ion combine to form one molecule of liquid water and one molecule of carbon dioxide gas

download.png
 
bicarbonate reacts with oxygen, one hydrogen ion and one bicarbonate ion combine to form one molecule of liquid water and one molecule of carbon dioxide gas

View attachment 13097
And citric acid speeds that up somehow… im not sure the chemical equation for that but tested it myself.
 
@Moe.Red an alkalinity meter may do the trick it does take more than just carbonate hardness into account… hydroxyls for sure but i think it will work
 
Imo nothing changes with microbes except they have all the o2 they want keeping the population healthy…. Now tgis is only as @Moe.Red says an assumption but I can’t see how it would increase population other than if it were negatively affected by o2 to start with.

Imo microbe populations will continue to be governed by food source so long as environment is adequate
Agree 💯 energy food is the biggest check ✅ for control


This would be a really novel approach for countering pH drifting up, if it's feasible to regulate

Plus all the interesting metabolite gleaned from a healthy microbe population
 
Volume of fluid... temperature.... Growth rate.... Oxygen content... And existing population size all players factoring sugar consumption rates..


Lots of variables but not terrible much to figure. Temperature 🌡️ control is the biggest standout IMO aside from the fuel source

Temperature affect mitosis big-time
 
Show me a link to what you are talking about.

When I look at hanna, they are measuing CaCO3 which is calcium carbonate. Same as the test strips.

Range0 to 500 ppm CaCO₃
Total alkalinity is primarily bicarbonate, carbonate, and hydroxide, along with a few others like cyanurate alkalinity. When acid is added, these alkali have the ability to neutralize some of the acid. In simpler terms, total alkalinity is a measurement of the water’s ability to resist a reduction in pH.
Alkalinity cannot be measured in real-time with probes, at least with today's technology. Perhaps someday it will be possible, but for now, we must rely on titration or color-change on a test strip. The most common titration is with liquid reagents, where each drop is counted as it neutralizes more and more of the sample until the color changes.
 
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Think about Amino acid in general as functional carbon units or 3D component to molecule. Ie what gives protein it's shape.

GABA is simple.... Gabapentin is more complex and larger...
View attachment 16853

Gabapentin is a ligand of the α2δ calcium channel subunit. α2δ is an auxiliary protein connected to the main α1 subunit

Ones that can pass though the blood brain barrier are kinda special IMO. Calcium channel a plus... Nitrogen (NH2) base
 
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I think tree ligand is potentially a really important source of ligand that's useful for our purpose but different trees are better than others


Been experimenting with alder and maple barks with really good results so far

Plus the beneficial fungus and microbes in this type of substrate

Mostly I've been getting my ducks in a row with building the cabin, so this year grow is just for entertainment purposes
 
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Bump.

I need a buffer solution lol.
Agsil16 worked great for me on that first run. That was Red's suggestion. Someone here posted the proper mixing formula. I think it was @SweetLeafGrow.

I used like 3 or 4 grams per gallon (I'd have to check back on my notes to be sure). Let that set for several hours, then bring your pH down to 5.8 and mix in your nutes. When I switched to the flower cycle, I just used pH UP bringing the intial pH up to 9+, then brought it back down to 5.8 before adding nutes. It took a day or so to stabilize but it worked fine.
 
What are you trying to balance better?
Wanted to bring this back under attention, I had a small Gatorade bottle res, it was more of a joke, but now I got it in a bigger bottle and just redoing pH down every few hours
 

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