Cannabis and o2 in the rootzone

[Aqua Man]

Place holder for article on o2 in the rootzone

 

[Aqua Man]

how to hack o2 levels in the rootzone and what it means to your cannabis plants.

I will update this with information in a constructive format but for now lets spill the beans and answer some questions.

First off DO NOT USE bottled o2 it’s highly explosive over a 24% concentration.

You will want an o2 concentrator which after covid are readily available but still quite costly. I eventually may build them scaled to our needs for much cheaper but this is not going to be anytime soon so thats why im spilling the beans here.

Its no secret that @Moe.Red and i have worked on this starting idk well over a yr maybe closer to a yr and a half and i came up with it over 2 yrs ago… by worked i mean he did all the work and i shared my idea so this is not something that would even have had any results or anything if it was not for out favourite mad scientist.

An o2 concentrator simply separates gases at a molecular level and since o2 is a large molecule a certain type of media will capture co2 nitrogen and hold onto them while allowing the o2 through. I wont go more into the mechanics behind it but its a pretty simple concept.

Im gonna just let this ride out in convo for now because i could write pages and will do that when i get more time.

 

[Observer]

First off DO NOT USE bottled o2 it’s highly explosive over a 24% concentration.

i gotta fuck around and blow my self up AT LEAST once man, cmon.

little boom be ok

 

[Aqua Man]

For hydroponics i did this using a venturi to suck in 90%+ of o2.

In aeroponics and fogponics it can be directly injected into the rootzone.

Its no secret that faster growth is a result of the availability of o2 in the rootzone. Soil being slower due to the lower gas exchange and air holding capacity.

To soiless like coco and hydro where it’s limited to around 8-9%

Where aeroponic and fogponic being the fastest is around 20-21% with good gas exchange.

Well this can be raised to 90%+ with an o2 concentrator. No data yet as to where it peaks as there are very few studies available because it was not easily accomplished until now.

Moe tested I believe close to 300% o2 levels in his hydro system which is right around the o2 levels of an aeroponic system.

 

[Aqua Man]

i gotta fuck around and blow my self up AT LEAST once man, cmon.

little boom be ok

Please don’t bro

 

[Observer]

pretty sure thats where i came up with my poor-mans-tek aerotote

 

[Observer]

Please don’t bro

im entirely joking with ya, mostly.

haha


where did he get the 300% figure from or how? ;p

just to understand getting 300%

 

[Observer]

Yes these roots aren't the best looking but this is when I was first trying this system

Poor man's tek - o2 concentrator lol/ aeroponics

 

[Aqua Man]

im entirely joking with ya, mostly.

haha


where did he get the 300% figure from or how? ;p

He used a DO probe to test it. So that’s dissolved o2 available to the plant. In gis fog ponic im not aure what he has it set to but probably around 60% if i guess from our last real discussion on it possibly as high as 90%.

 

[Aqua Man]

Water temps were in the low 90’s in these pics with o2

 

[Observer]

yea that shit was cool.

besides the higher o2, i dont get fully how it was cool having 90f feet.

was this sterile or bennies?

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok going for ice cream with my hot date… bbl

 

[Aqua Man]

yea that shit was cool.

besides the higher o2, i dont get fully how it was cool having 90f feet.

It wasn’t lol but the plant did ok and were severely neglected… look at moes root porn it will be a much better example. I tortured those plants

 

[Observer]

yea i remember you started to get (?) into issues but still.

 

[Rootsruler]

Crown rot...

 

[Rootsruler]

I'm going to place the 6" air stone plate I have at the bottom of a plastic nursery pot and fill it with some Roots Original potting mix. Any observations/suggestions? I know this has been tried before with airstones placed in the middle of the root zone with mixed results. Wondering if cationic activity is part of why in regards to raised O2 in the soil.

 

[Observer]

I'm going to place the 6" air stone plate I have at the bottom of a plastic nursery pot and fill it with some Roots Original potting mix. Any observations/suggestions? I know this has been tried before with airstones placed in the middle of the root zone with mixed results. Wondering if cationic activity is part of why in regards to raised O2 in the soil.

uneven dry and wet zones came to mind

so if theres a 10inch pot and 3inch puck in the middle, that will dry faster maybe (?) then whats around and maybe create an uneven rootzone

now if they were same diameter or close (?)

 

[Rootsruler]

This is the airstone I'm going to use. It's 6" so I guess a 3 gal plastic nursery pot with an 9" bottom diameter? Leaves an 1 1/2" on each side for side fill. That should aereate most of the media. I'm also thinking that whatever water that sits inside the rim of the airstone is going to get super oxygenated simmering on the plate being constantly bombarded with champagne bubbles. One concern I have is salt buildup on the plate. I could do some alternating fresh water feeds to dilute some of the buildup and since it's going to be constantly rumbling with air most of the salt that builds up should be fairly easy to wash out.

uneven dry and wet zones came to mind

so if theres a 10inch pot and 3inch puck in the middle, that will dry faster maybe (?) then whats around and maybe create an uneven rootzone

now if they were same diameter or close (?)

I see what you mean about dry/wet zones. Maybe I should conduct a test with the soil and water it without any plant to see if it creates the wet/dry zone you mentioned although I'm thinking the fast draining soil that Roots has should keep it relatively even(I hope!). I have one of those cheap ass amazon soil meters but they're pretty much worthless other than soil pH. Maybe I can get a rough reading with it. Thinking how to test this and cover all parameters.

 

[Aqua Man]

I'm going to place the 6" air stone plate I have at the bottom of a plastic nursery pot and fill it with some Roots Original potting mix. Any observations/suggestions? I know this has been tried before with airstones placed in the middle of the root zone with mixed results. Wondering if cationic activity is part of why in regards to raised O2 in the soil.

May work better to use a fabric pot and place the airstone into a plastic pail then the favric pot over top.

 

[Aqua Man]

This is the airstone I'm going to use. It's 6" so I guess a 3 gal plastic nursery pot with an 9" bottom diameter? Leaves an 1 1/2" on each side for side fill. That should aereate most of the media. I'm also thinking that whatever water that sits inside the rim of the airstone is going to get super oxygenated simmering on the plate being constantly bombarded with champagne bubbles. One concern I have is salt buildup on the plate. I could do some alternating fresh water feeds to dilute some of the buildup and since it's going to be constantly rumbling with air most of the salt that builds up should be fairly easy to wash out.

View attachment 10904


I see what you mean about dry/wet zones. Maybe I should conduct a test with the soil and water it without any plant to see if it creates the wet/dry zone you mentioned although I'm thinking the fast draining soil that Roots has should keep it relatively even(I hope!). I have one of those cheap ass amazon soil meters but they're pretty much worthless other than soil pH. Maybe I can get a rough reading with it. Thinking how to test this and cover all parameters.

The airstone will get the plugged and need cleaned periodically. Imo

 

[smoke]

Water temps were in the low 90’s in these pics with o2

This has me intrigued, if i remember you were running live?

It wasn’t lol but the plant did ok and were severely neglected… look at moes root porn it will be a much better example. I tortured those plants roots

Its not only the brighter than white roots but the exponential growth of the roots compared to mine maybe 3 or 4 times

 

[Max 2]

ok.I’m in.what’s the media

 

[moe.red]

ok.I’m in.what’s the media

For me coco and perlite.

I'm happy to answer any questions. Got my fog cloner running right now, I just got some clones from @Anthem275 and will be posting that up this weekend.

Not running in the main system currently because I'm doing a soil grow over there.

 

[Max 2]

it’s going to b awhile then before you start..I’m all ears.keen to see how o2 can b elevated in the media.I gather it’s not just one point but multible points in the pot .

 

[moe.red]

it’s going to b awhile then before you start..I’m all ears.keen to see how o2 can b elevated in the media.I gather it’s not just one point but multible points in the pot .

Depends on what you mean by start. If you mean a full grow then yes. I'll get back to fog and O2 in that tent once the soil grow is harvested. Still in veg currently.

But I am running the concentrator right now in the fog cloner.

I have no experience with doing this in soil. Why it seems to me to work better hydro is you can seal up the res and pump it full of O2 and leave it there. With soil and coco in a pot - I'm sure there is some benefit but not like where you can trap and hold the O2 on the roots.

 

[Max 2]

Yeah I meant you already have a grow going.I still don’t have the faintest how you’d go about it in coco.specially if you hand water

 

[Aqua Man]

My thoughts were as i explained to @Rootsruler . You use a plastic pail. A support rack and a fabric pot that fits the pail. Th o2 concentrator goes in the bottom of the pail. The fabric bag edges are folded over the edge of the pail. It makes sense in my head but not the most ideal.

Im with @Moe.Red that ideally this is best used for hydro, aero and fog ponics

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah I meant you already have a grow going.I still don’t have the faintest how you’d go about it in coco.

Haven’t done it yet but i have a few ideas. Some make more sense than others.

 

[Max 2]

Will have to b multible sites throughout the media..I thought of spikes going into the sides of the pot then put the coco/perlite in the pot?

 

[Aqua Man]

ill try to find some sources for everyone to read I haven’t looked at them in some time and not sure where my links are on it. There have been studies using compressed gas way back but there really isn’t much done lated for elevated o2. One thing is always consistent the higher the DO the faster and more healthy the growth and use of nutrients

 

[Aqua Man]

Will have to b multible sites throughout the media..I thought of spikes going into the sides of the pot then put the coco/perlite in the pot?

Yeah i you could oxygen the feed water and use a stake that releases the water inside the media as one option.

But i have a hard to explain concept of say using a 3 gal pail and 3 gal bags. Then attaching the 1/4” lines like in a hydro system. Its alot more complex than that but when i grow next in going to try it in coco and ill figure something out

 

[Max 2]

B funny if you could use vehicle injectors ..telling your mates your plants are injected with o2 ha.

 

[Aqua Man]

Some facts on how this work for aero, hydro and fog. We chose these methods because of the feasibility for ise with an o2 concentrator.

By concentrating the o2 levels in the atmosphere where the water is as the water tries to reach equilibrium with the gases in the air it leads to DO levels that are inline. This takes advantage of henrys law.

So its then possible to have many times the amount of DO as would be achieved with perfect aeration.

The most efficient way with the ability to reach the highest DO is aeroponic and fogponic. The roots can have levels of up to 90%+ of o2 available at all times. And i would suggest hydro, aero or fog at this time.

I will be doing some testing with coco later this year.

It will replace the need for airstones and pumps. An o2 concentrator is also good for around 50,000hrs before the media needs changes and they are a fraction of the cost of a unit. So yeah it’s expensive but you wont be replacing air stones or pumps for likely 5-10 years plus reaping the benefits of elevated o2.

 

[smoke]

My thoughts were as i explained to @Rootsruler . You use a plastic pail. A support rack and a fabric pot that fits the pail. Th o2 concentrator goes in the bottom of the pail. The fabric bag edges are folded over the edge of the pail. It makes sense in my head but not the most ideal.

Im with @Moe.Red that ideally this is best used for hydro, aero and fog ponics

Can you seal things up enough in rdwc or dwc, or is the oxygen only required in the rez/epicenter?

Edit should say, is oxygen only required in epi/rez

 

[Aqua Man]

Can you seal things up enough in rdwc or dwc, or is the oxygen only required in the rez/epicenter?

Yeah thats why i used coco for the net pots. It just needs to be adequately designed like tight fitting lids. I ran o2 into the Venturi that feed each site so it was constantly pumping in o2 the change in the gas makeup changes the makeup of the water.

O2 is extremely hard to dissolve in water and to super saturate it they use gimmicks to fool the DO sensor. Super saturated mean that the gas will try to escape very quickly as it fights to reach equilibrium.

If we change the equilibrium levels of o2 then the gas wants to stay put and we can elevate o2 levels much higher and more efficiently.

Tldr: yea you need a good sealed system and almost all are these days. But when making your own this needs to be considered

 

[Max 2]

Sorry aqua..I missed post 27 explaining how it works..

 

[Aqua Man]

Same thing, stoner lol

Is the oxygen only required in the rez in a rdwc system or is it required in each module?

Its all dependant on load but a sealed system with o2 injection will effect the entire system. You could do just the epi but the mire surface water exposure to the concentrated o2 the more efficient the gas exchange and thats better. Thats not to say you can’t maintain the same level of DO if you only do the epi.

the 2 very key factors to increase gas exchange are surface area agitation and water column mixing. The more of each the more efficient the gas exchange but at some point it becomes excessive. I cannot yet say the ideals with 100% confidence…. Just not enough data yet.

If you just wanted to do the epi and i think that would be adequate ideally you would want a mixing pump in there preferably with a Venturi

 

[Rootsruler]

May work better to use a fabric pot and place the airstone into a plastic pail then the favric pot over top.

The airstone will get the plugged and need cleaned periodically. Imo

Love it! Great idea. That's how I'm going to set it up so that I minimize plugging up the airstone.

 

[Franksta]

For hydroponics i did this using a venturi to suck in 90%+ of o2.

In aeroponics and fogponics it can be directly injected into the rootzone.

Its no secret that faster growth is a result of the availability of o2 in the rootzone. Soil being slower due to the lower gas exchange and air holding capacity.

To soiless like coco and hydro where it’s limited to around 8-9%

Where aeroponic and fogponic being the fastest is around 20-21% with good gas exchange.

Well this can be raised to 90%+ with an o2 concentrator. No data yet as to where it peaks as there are very few studies available because it was not easily accomplished until now.

Moe tested I believe close to 300% o2 levels in his hydro system which is right around the o2 levels of an aeroponic system.

I wonder how much constant flow of O2 might affect temperature regulation especially 02 exchange capacity at high temperature ie 80+f or 26.66+c


On a side note I think it's actually cooling the whole thing while it's happening... Via a type of convection I think maybe. Not sure exactly

But should have some type of net cooling effects

This is the magic bottle neck in the bottom half of the plants IMO

 

[Observer]

Yeah i you could oxygen the feed water and use a stake that releases the water inside the media as one option.

But i have a hard to explain concept of say using a 3 gal pail and 3 gal bags. Then attaching the 1/4” lines like in a hydro system. Its alot more complex than that but when i grow next in going to try it in coco and ill figure something out

The bags as a air cushion under the medium?