Cannabis and o2 in the rootzone

[Max]

It’s beneficial 24hrs a day unlike co2 in the atmosphere is only beneficial during lights on

I see now..I just woke up to myself lol..

 

[moe.red]

How should I do it in a flood and drain setup?

You could super oxygenate the water prior to flooding, but unless the root zone is sealed up I'll bet it is not worth the effort or expense. Would need testing.

 

[Anthem275]

You could super oxygenate the water prior to flooding, but unless the root zone is sealed up I'll bet it is not worth the effort or expense. Would need testing.

I do not know and as you stated would need testing. I have started screwing around with different media, as in one that holds more water below the root zone and a more porous product above the root zone.

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah about the only way i see is to cover the table with plastic or styrofoam with cut outs for the pots…. Then pump in o2 from the concentrator on the furthest end from the drain

 

[Observer]

I think there are 2 kinds of liquid O2.

There are gels that deep sea divers use - never seen one up close.
There is liquid O2 - frozen in bottles.

I have not looked into either one. I can't imagine the cost and safety as well as the equipment needed to use this is worth it for cannabis. Maybe in space.

correct.

 

[Observer]

Whacha mean by liquid o2?

Amazon.com

 

[Aqua Man]

Amazon.com

Cannabis marketing 101 at its finest… take something factual and find a way to twist it and scam people out of their money.

See a big part of the problem is the majority of ppl who use products and don’t have issue with them seem to support them and say they work. The problem is the fact that they don’t hurt your plants doesn’t equate to they help your plants…. This is almost exclusively what drives all of this marketing gimmickry as all these companies know this

 

[Observer]

Cannabis marketing 101 at its finest… take something factual and find a way to twist it and scam people out of their money.

See a big part of the problem is the majority of ppl who use products and don’t have issue with them seem to support them and say they work. The problem is the fact that they don’t hurt your plants doesn’t equate to they help your plants…. This is almost exclusively what drives all of this marketing gimmickry as all these companies know this

yea i was trying to find the LIquid oxygen i was looking at last night, some of these are just peroxide lol

 

[Aqua Man]

yea i was trying to find the LIquid oxygen i was looking at last night, some of these are just peroxide lol

Short of controlling the atmosphere above the water…. Nothing will help imo

 

[Observer]

Short of controlling the atmosphere above the water…. Nothing will help imo

Yeah there don't seem to be a lot of possible solutionsz I've been racking my head about DO

 

[Aqua Man]

Yeah there don't seem to be a lot of possible solutionsz I've been racking my head about DO

Been there bro… like months upon months of it

 

[moe.red]

Been there bro… like months upon months of it

Not me.

Born with it.

 

[Franksta]

@Aqua Man - Sorry I didn't get back to this sooner.


Well... I'm going to have to eat my words on that one. I'm sure I saw it somewhere, but I sure can't find it now. If I eventually find it, I'll try to remember to let you know. It's probably wrong, though, because if it were correct there would be more information, and there isn't any.

It's become clear to me that O2 has understated importance. This document was helpful to me as a primer on the subject:

http://www.dramm.com/media/Dissolved%20Oxygen%20in%20the%20Greenhouse.pdf

As a soil grower, I'm mostly interested in finding ways to increase O2 in the soil. That's why @Pipecarver's post with the air domes interested me. I don't know how many things I'm doing wrong, but how I prepare irrigation water might be one of them. I've been filling my watering cans after I use them and letting them sit till the next watering. Now I'm thinking that doing so makes the water anaerobic, both from off-gassing and warming the water to room temperature. That takes me in the direction of wondering how to improve soil oxygenation.

Meanwhile... I see that you're also correct about how H2O2 is best used as a disinfectant. I found recipes for using it to get rid of fungus gnats and used one of them yesterday. It's a 4:1 mix of water to 3% hydrogen peroxide. I sprayed it on the surface of the soil and today I haven't seen any gnats. Hooray for that!

Keep in mind water too cold although it's going to have lots of oxygen it can shock the plants. Will take hours to recover and might be an issue with frequent watering cycles

Cold sequester of oxygen is most helpful in a specific range IMO


I'm not sure if @Aqua Man has a specific optimal number he's dialed in or not. But I'm thinking it's between 60-65f or perhaps even a few degrees higher

 

[Aqua Man]

Keep in mind water too cold although it's going to have lots of oxygen it can shock the plants. Will take hours to recover and might be an issue with frequent watering cycles

Cold sequester of oxygen is most helpful in a specific range IMO


I'm not sure if @Aqua Man has a specific optimal number he's dialed in or not. But I'm thinking it's between 60-65f or perhaps even a few degrees higher.

With good gas exchange and at atmospheric o2 i found 72 to be the best for growth.

The reason for that is the metabolic increase from temperature provides more benefit than the small change in o2 at those temps.

Now if you start removing the limit of o2 based on temp…. I can see this being closer to 76-80f

 

[moe.red]

I’m running 78 in the fog res and roots and colonies explode.

I have been hotter by accident and I see diminishing returns past 80.

If running atmospheric O2 I have settled on 72 but have no data to support it is best. I run a chiller to maintain that.

 

[Amnesia]

I haven't checked the temperature of the water I'm using. I just fill the watering cans after each use, so they'll be ready when they're needed. I suspect the water temperature is in the mid to low 70s. The cans sit on the floor, which should be the coolest part of the room. The room itself is currently 76.8º and 51.2% RH.

 

[moe.red]

I haven't checked the temperature of the water I'm using. I just fill the watering cans after each use, so they'll be ready when they're needed. I suspect the water temperature is in the mid to low 70s. The cans sit on the floor, which should be the coolest part of the room. The room itself is currently 76.8º and 51.2% RH.

Everything I am talking about is hydro. I wouldn't expect the amount of O2 in water for soil or coco to make that much of a difference. I could be wrong on that, still lots of things to test.

 

[Amnesia]

Everything I am talking about is hydro. I wouldn't expect the amount of O2 in water for soil or coco to make that much of a difference. I could be wrong on that, still lots of things to test.

I thought it was about hydro, but I was quoted, so I thought maybe I was involved somehow. Otherwise, I think you're correct about the O2 in water not being a factor for an organic-soil-in-fabric-pot grower like me.

 

[moe.red]

I thought it was about hydro, but I was quoted, so I thought maybe I was involved somehow. Otherwise, I think you're correct about the O2 in water not being a factor for an organic-soil-in-fabric-pot grower like me.

Me too. Just started. I'm using tap water now. Not even PHing it. Weird.

All this O2 stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me in soil. The medium is the limiting factor in getting O2 to the roots, so why choose it if you want to run O2? Makes no sense to me from an engineering standpoint.

 

[Amnesia]

Me too. Just started. I'm using tap water now. Not even PHing it. Weird.

I don't adjust the pH of my tap water. I test it just to know what it is. It is consistently 7.6. When I have done slurry tests on soil from my pots, however, it has been slightly below 6. As far as I know, the pH of the water I use hasn't impacted the health of my plants. I don't know that for sure, though.

All this O2 stuff doesn't make a lot of sense to me in soil. The medium is the limiting factor in getting O2 to the roots, so why choose it if you want to run O2? Makes no sense to me from an engineering standpoint.

I suppose a person could make a case for an O2 implementation for soil. The analysis probably would be better served by thinking of it as gas exchange, which is important for soil because roots do aerobic respiration. (Roots take in oxygen and give off carbon dioxide.) It's likely the use of gas permeable (e.g., fabric) pots with adequate air circulation is a satisfactory solution for most soil growers. (It's what I do.) Nevertheless, some of us want to explore better ways. So, the challenge would be to try to improve the movement of gases beyond what we already do. Ergo, in what ways could gas exchange processes be made more efficacious.

 

[Franksta]

With good gas exchange and at atmospheric o2 i found 72 to be the best for growth.

The reason for that is the metabolic increase from temperature provides more benefit than the small change in o2 at those temps.

Now if you start removing the limit of o2 based on temp…. I can see this being closer to 76-80f

Holy cow that's a big jump. I'm not surprised that all those optimum move around. Especially with the extra oxygen taking it up further

 

[Franksta]

I’m running 78 in the fog res and roots and colonies explode.

I have been hotter by accident and I see diminishing returns past 80.

If running atmospheric O2 I have settled on 72 but have no data to support it is best. I run a chiller to maintain that.

My guess is it's nutrient specific as to the needs of the plants. A little higher as aqua suggest during the veggies and even earlier flower

But I would consider dialing it lower during late flowers. Or cycle it lower during lights out. I believe lower temperature can potentially boost flavor. But probably at a certain cost to end bag weight

Would be interested in seeing what the Data says

 

[Franksta]

Everything I am talking about is hydro. I wouldn't expect the amount of O2 in water for soil or coco to make that much of a difference. I could be wrong on that, still lots of things to test.

I think you might be surprised but it's biggest obstacle is the requirement of pressure and would probably need much more frequent waterings

Pumping O2 into Coco choir seems like a great idea IMO

Personally I believe it can be improved with a simple Air stone and atmospheric level of oxygen. But the pressure/dispersal is the biggest variable starting out the gate

 

[Rootsruler]

When I get back from my trip I'm going to try putting a 6" air stone disc at the bottom of a plastic nursery pot and insert a cloth pot over it like Aquaman suggested to see if pumping air through the soil has any real benefits.

 

[Aqua Man]

When I get back from my trip I'm going to try putting a 6" air stone disc at the bottom of a plastic nursery pot and insert a cloth pot over it like Aquaman suggested to see if pumping air through the soil has any real benefits.

You will need to dial back the volume imo… unless adding a bit of water to the bottom so your not pumping dry air into the rootzone but even then you want a small volume

 

[Rootsruler]

You will need to dial back the volume imo… unless adding a bit of water to the bottom so your not pumping dry air into the rootzone but even then you want a small volume

I have one of the little ActiveAqua pumps with the volume dial on top so I can adjust the air volume. I'm going to have to figure out some sort of plumbing to fit the air pump to the air stone. The air stone has a 3/8's hose barb whereas the air pump has two 1/4" outlets. I need to find a 1/4" x 3/8" x 1/4" tee manifold so that I can utilize both outlet ports on the pump.

 

[steamroller]

They make nylon hose barbs and all sorts of size hose.

Here I went from Pex I think 1/2 0r 3/4 to3/8 then another fitting from 3/8 to 1/4 then I slip fit the vinyl hose over silicone.
I had 2 pumps running almost 80 tanks from 80g-1.5g.

Alita FTW and for a lifetime. Great huge volume and pressure pumps.
Every pump will do better and last longer with a fan blowing on it.

 

[Rootsruler]

They make nylon hose barbs and all sorts of size hose.
View attachment 12334
Here I went from Pex I think 1/2 0r 3/4 to3/8 then another fitting from 3/8 to 1/4 then I slip fit the vinyl hose over silicone.
I had 2 pumps running almost 80 tanks from 80g-1.5g.
View attachment 12335
Alita FTW and for a lifetime. Great huge volume and pressure pumps.
Every pump will do better and last longer with a fan blowing on it.

Yeah. I was spoiled in Cali with Hydro stores on practically every corner so finding parts was easy. I'll have to google it and see who has one in that configuration. A Y would be even better than a T.

 

[Observer]

Multiple systems could be utilized.

 

[Observer]

looking into algae, they release oxygen but then consume it when lights off basically dead end?

then theres nanobubbles....but need a system for that and probably o2 tanks