Cannabis and o2 in the rootzone

[Franksta]

With good gas exchange and at atmospheric o2 i found 72 to be the best for growth.

The reason for that is the metabolic increase from temperature provides more benefit than the small change in o2 at those temps.

Now if you start removing the limit of o2 based on temp…. I can see this being closer to 76-80f

Holy cow that's a big jump. I'm not surprised that all those optimum move around. Especially with the extra oxygen taking it up further

 

[Franksta]

I’m running 78 in the fog res and roots and colonies explode.

I have been hotter by accident and I see diminishing returns past 80.

If running atmospheric O2 I have settled on 72 but have no data to support it is best. I run a chiller to maintain that.

My guess is it's nutrient specific as to the needs of the plants. A little higher as aqua suggest during the veggies and even earlier flower

But I would consider dialing it lower during late flowers. Or cycle it lower during lights out. I believe lower temperature can potentially boost flavor. But probably at a certain cost to end bag weight

Would be interested in seeing what the Data says

 

[Franksta]

Everything I am talking about is hydro. I wouldn't expect the amount of O2 in water for soil or coco to make that much of a difference. I could be wrong on that, still lots of things to test.

I think you might be surprised but it's biggest obstacle is the requirement of pressure and would probably need much more frequent waterings

Pumping O2 into Coco choir seems like a great idea IMO

Personally I believe it can be improved with a simple Air stone and atmospheric level of oxygen. But the pressure/dispersal is the biggest variable starting out the gate

 

[Rootsruler]

When I get back from my trip I'm going to try putting a 6" air stone disc at the bottom of a plastic nursery pot and insert a cloth pot over it like Aquaman suggested to see if pumping air through the soil has any real benefits.

 

[Aqua Man]

When I get back from my trip I'm going to try putting a 6" air stone disc at the bottom of a plastic nursery pot and insert a cloth pot over it like Aquaman suggested to see if pumping air through the soil has any real benefits.

You will need to dial back the volume imo… unless adding a bit of water to the bottom so your not pumping dry air into the rootzone but even then you want a small volume

 

[Rootsruler]

You will need to dial back the volume imo… unless adding a bit of water to the bottom so your not pumping dry air into the rootzone but even then you want a small volume

I have one of the little ActiveAqua pumps with the volume dial on top so I can adjust the air volume. I'm going to have to figure out some sort of plumbing to fit the air pump to the air stone. The air stone has a 3/8's hose barb whereas the air pump has two 1/4" outlets. I need to find a 1/4" x 3/8" x 1/4" tee manifold so that I can utilize both outlet ports on the pump.

 

[steamroller]

They make nylon hose barbs and all sorts of size hose.

Here I went from Pex I think 1/2 0r 3/4 to3/8 then another fitting from 3/8 to 1/4 then I slip fit the vinyl hose over silicone.
I had 2 pumps running almost 80 tanks from 80g-1.5g.

Alita FTW and for a lifetime. Great huge volume and pressure pumps.
Every pump will do better and last longer with a fan blowing on it.

 

[Rootsruler]

They make nylon hose barbs and all sorts of size hose.
View attachment 12334
Here I went from Pex I think 1/2 0r 3/4 to3/8 then another fitting from 3/8 to 1/4 then I slip fit the vinyl hose over silicone.
I had 2 pumps running almost 80 tanks from 80g-1.5g.
View attachment 12335
Alita FTW and for a lifetime. Great huge volume and pressure pumps.
Every pump will do better and last longer with a fan blowing on it.

Yeah. I was spoiled in Cali with Hydro stores on practically every corner so finding parts was easy. I'll have to google it and see who has one in that configuration. A Y would be even better than a T.

 

[Observer]

Multiple systems could be utilized.

 

[Observer]

looking into algae, they release oxygen but then consume it when lights off basically dead end?

then theres nanobubbles....but need a system for that and probably o2 tanks

 

[SiamSam]

Everything I am talking about is hydro. I wouldn't expect the amount of O2 in water for soil or coco to make that much of a difference. I could be wrong on that, still lots of things to test.

Sorry to chime in late, but I was told to oxygenate the water using an air pump and air stone....for several hours prior to feeding my plants in soil. Also the Terp tea people say to fo it when using their product which I do...Is this wisdom or bunk?

 

[SiamSam]

Sorry to chime in late, but I was told to oxygenate the water using an air pump and air stone....for several hours prior to feeding my plants in soil. Also the Terp tea people say to fo it when using their product which I do...Is this wisdom or bunk?

 

[Observer]

Everything I am talking about is hydro. I wouldn't expect the amount of O2 in water for soil or coco to make that much of a difference. I could be wrong on that, still lots of things to test.

i see ur point

soil is slow, playing with DO is one of the top variables for growth rates, and yet soil is at the bottom, trying to mix the two seems....counter intuitive...

 

[Franksta]

Yeah like maybe a little bin bubbler with Coco choir above and maybe perlite in the bottom area. Plus a shallow plastic dish in the bottom of the fabric types

Just run it almost dry and reload w/pH optimal solution, adjust for ppm


I bet it would be sweet and you could dial it to nitrogen fixation and yeast enzymes. It's bet outside plants would explode

You will need to dial back the volume imo… unless adding a bit of water to the bottom so your not pumping dry air into the rootzone but even then you want a small volume

 

[moe.red]

Sorry to chime in late, but I was told to oxygenate the water using an air pump and air stone....for several hours prior to feeding my plants in soil. Also the Terp tea people say to fo it when using their product which I do...Is this wisdom or bunk?

I would not say it is bunk, stirring and good O2 will never hurt. But compared to hydro, I would not expect the amount of O2 in the water used to feed soil would make a big difference. Not nothing, but negligible. I have no testing to back this up, just a gut feeling.

 

[SiamSam]

I would not say it is bunk, stirring and good O2 will never hurt. But compared to hydro, I would not expect the amount of O2 in the water used to feed soil would make a big difference. Not nothing, but negligible. I have no testing to back this up, just a gut feeling.

Who got me started on Terp Tea from Organics was @Observer who used it in his soil grows. The directions on the package are pretty clear about giving it a good bubbling for 24 hours before dissemination. Watering systems like Bluenose or whatever it is called or even drip irrigation wouldn't get any extra 02 and maybe their plants don't care. Be curious, most of the positive things happen when you simply follow the given directions -- like replicating BudGoodman's cup in cup method. I like to try new things especially if they work. Success has many mothers and fathers while failure remains an orphan.

 

[moe.red]

Who got me started on Terp Tea from Organics was @Observer who used it in his soil grows. The directions on the package are pretty clear about giving it a good bubbling for 24 hours before dissemination. Watering systems like Bluenose or whatever it is called or even drip irrigation wouldn't get any extra 02 and maybe their plants don't care. Be curious, most of the positive things happen when you simply follow the given directions -- like replicating BudGoodman's cup in cup method. I like to try new things especially if they work. Success has many mothers and fathers while failure remains an orphan.

Not an expert here. I think terp teas would benefit from both agitation and oxygenation. I think you are doing it right.

How much of that bubbling results in more O2 directly to the roots - that would be my question. My feeling is minimal.

 

[Aqua Man]

Sorry to chime in late, but I was told to oxygenate the water using an air pump and air stone....for several hours prior to feeding my plants in soil. Also the Terp tea people say to fo it when using their product which I do...Is this wisdom or bunk?

Yeah not bunk… terp tea I believe uses bacteria to break it down and they use a lot of o2 so just like any tea it’s important to aerate the tea

 

[Observer]

However, it's essential to clarify that the increase in oxygen solubility is due to the dissolved CO2 in carbonated water, not the carbonation itself. Carbonation creates an environment that can hold more dissolved gases, and this can include an increased capacity for holding oxygen as well.

oxygen saturation extremism. It's a solid strategy IMO


I would be looking closely at all the possible delivery route

Fuckin tank of o2

High efficiency aeration membranes
Nanobubble generator
Ceramic oxygen diffusers
Carbonated water (?)
Pressure(?) And lower temperature
D2O (?) Has more weight, does it have "more" pressure in the substance/solution between the molecules?
Oxygen nanodispersoids(???)
High-pressure system to dissolve oxygen.


Oxygen Nanobubbles with Nano-Enhanced Coating:

• Employ oxygen nanobubbles coated with specialized nanomaterials that enhance gas dissolution efficiency.
• Theoretical Maximum DO Saturation: Theoretical maximum DO saturation levels can exceed 100 mg/L due to the enhanced gas dissolution properties of nanobubbles

Electrochemical Oxygenation:

• Implement electrochemical processes to generate oxygen in situ through the electrolysis of water.
• Theoretical Maximum DO Saturation: Theoretical maximum DO saturation levels depend on the efficiency of the electrolysis process but can potentially achieve 50-70 mg/L
• Biological Oxygen Production:
  • Cultivate specific microorganisms or algae that have exceptionally high rates of oxygen production through photosynthesis or bioconversion processes.
  • Theoretical Maximum DO Saturation: Theoretical maximum DO saturation levels can vary greatly depending on the selected microorganisms, but some engineered systems may achieve 50-100 mg/L or more.

 

[Observer]

the possibilities are endless


anyone else keeping up with this congress/UAP hearing ?

any of this UAP stuff?

this isnt the thread for it lol

 

[Observer]

electrolysis sounds promising?

but affect on the plant/medium root zone?

would be safer for yall then o2 tanks?



just An Observer looking in....

 

[Observer]

And obviously some of this is out of the realm of homegrowers abilities perhaps

But for theory maximums and convo

If theres a will theres a way.

Theorycraft

 

[Observer]

Fog
Bio - algae o2 producers
Nanobubbles
O2 tank
Electrolysis
Membranes, not airstones.

 

[Aqua Man]

Gases are independent co2 doesn’t effect o2. The electrolysis is bunk bro don’t drink the koolaid on that. It produces microbubbles that trick the DO sensor into supersaturated levels but its not. Plus it can add heavy metals to your water and is NOT recommended for water containing minerals.

@Moe.Red had already achieved 300 mg/L.

Trust me when i say i have explored about every option available nothing will beat an o2 concentrator in safety and results… it just won’t happen bro

 

[Observer]

Gases are independent co2 doesn’t effect o2. The electrolysis is bunk bro don’t drink the koolaid on that. It produces microbubbles that trick the DO sensor into supersaturated levels but its not. Plus it can add heavy metals to your water and is NOT recommended for water containing minerals.

@Moe.Red had already achieved 300 mg/L.

I want, down the line
Lol

Trust me when i say i have explored about every option available nothing will beat an o2 concentrator in safety and results… it just won’t happen bro

Well shit

 

[Aqua Man]

Well shit

I know… i was of the mindset there has to be an easier way for prob close to a year but i cannot figure anything better than an o2 concentrator… especially for safety. I spent years on this. But it is possible i missed something i just haven’t seen anything or come across anything to lead me to believe something else would be better

 

[Observer]

I know… i was of the mindset there has to be an easier way for prob close to a year but i cannot figure anything better than an o2 concentrator… especially for safety. I spent years on this. But it is possible i missed something i just haven’t seen anything or come across anything to lead me to believe something else would be better

well shit i need to know his method then, and then if that can be improved on
obviously you guys are smarter than me and know way more of this stuff let alone the basics.

id like to think maybe i could find something that you guys missed or overlooked if possible, perhaps
but im only a half genius lol

maybe something yet to be developed, but again yall would know, i wouldnt.

was it just the fog? and the o2 concentrator ? is there a 3rd thing...


appreciate ya


just An Observer looking in...

 

[Observer]

especially for safety.

 

[Aqua Man]

well shit i need to know his method then, and then if that can be improved on
obviously you guys are smarter than me and know way more of this stuff let alone the basics.

id like to think maybe i could find something that you guys missed or overlooked if possible, perhaps
but im only a half genius lol

maybe something yet to be developed, but again yall would know, i wouldnt.

was it just the fog? and the o2 concentrator ? is there a 3rd thing...


appreciate ya


just An Observer looking in...

Dude question everything because more heads are better than one. Everyone is a genius in their way. You always ask the right questions and thats 100% of finding the solutions

 

[Observer]

Dude question everything because more heads are better than one. Everyone is a genius in their way. You always ask the right questions and thats 100% of finding the solutions

ty sir

 

[Observer]

@Moe.Red had already achieved 300 mg/L.

does the plant even benefit beyond 300mg/L and if so, up to how much?

 

[SiamSam]

the possibilities are endless


anyone else keeping up with this congress/UAP hearing ?

any of this UAP stuff?

this isnt the thread for it lol

 

[Observer]

Dude question everything because more heads are better than one. Everyone is a genius in their way. You always ask the right questions and thats 100% of finding the solutions

I am curious about the effects/ A-ffect of CO2 water though

Gases are independent co2 doesn’t effect o2. The electrolysis is bunk bro don’t drink the koolaid on that. It produces microbubbles that trick the DO sensor into supersaturated levels but its not. Plus it can add heavy metals to your water and is NOT recommended for water containing minerals.

@Moe.Red had already achieved 300 mg/L.

Trust me when i say i have explored about every option available nothing will beat an o2 concentrator in safety and results… it just won’t happen bro

Oh and that top bit was some shit chaptgpt3 spit out

It's not always accurate.

Pretty sure it was Lobotomized lol
It got too good at some things, speculatively

 

[Observer]

I am curious about the effects/ A-ffect of CO2 water though
Oh and that top bit was some shit chaptgpt3 spit out

It's not always accurate.

Pretty sure it was Lobotomized lol
It got too good at some things, speculatively

So I don't ever know what to trust from it exactly without further questioning


due diligence

 

[Aqua Man]

does the plant even benefit beyond 300mg/L and if so, up to how much?

Can’t say right now…. Not enough testing and i wont be for some time probably

 

[Aqua Man]

I am curious about the effects/ A-ffect of CO2 water though
Oh and that top bit was some shit chaptgpt3 spit out

It's not always accurate.

Pretty sure it was Lobotomized lol
It got too good at some things, speculatively

Co2 dissolved in water forms carbonic acid. I used to use co2 with a rex griggs reactor to inject co2 into my water planted tanks for growth and to control the PH.

At 4DKH a 1.0 PH drop would give you roughly 30ppm of co2 in the water. At atmospheric levels its about 4ppm when at equilibrium

 

[Observer]

just thought this was cool, curious what the oxygen content of that "liquid air" would be

obviously o2 concentrator would be higher

i just thought this was cool to share.

 

[Aqua Man]

just thought this was cool, curious what the oxygen content of that "liquid air" would be

obviously o2 concentrator would be higher

i just thought this was cool to share.

Cool to see. No clue how much if any o2 it would add but definitely would likely need a constant supply in high volume. Compressed o2 would even be a far far far more viable option

 

[Rootsruler]

So Hydro has shown how elevated O2 levels in your feed water will help increase yields. In soil, since it uses a different mode of ion transfer, it is harder to hold onto the DO in the source water because of the equilibrium effect it would experience once in the soil due to the slower transmission of ions. This would lead me to believe that direct O2 injection in the soil medium would be the only real way to present O2 in the rhizosphere and be able to consistently keep it at a level that is above atmospheric O2.

Is this correct?

 

[Aqua Man]

So Hydro has shown how elevated O2 levels in your feed water will help increase yields. In soil, since it uses a different mode of ion transfer, it is harder to hold onto the DO in the source water because of the equilibrium effect it would experience once in the soil due to the slower transmission of ions. This would lead me to believe that direct O2 injection in the soil medium would be the only real way to present O2 in the rhizosphere and be able to consistently keep it at a level that is above atmospheric O2.

Is this correct?

In an media ideally you need to separate the rhizosphere and atmosphere. Soil is a natural barrier in a sense. The gas exchange is slower so really all you need to do is provide a steady source and a way to deliver it into the soil. I have some theories on how to do this but yes its likely that direct delivery to the soil would be the most efficient.