Cannabis and o2 in the rootzone

[Aqua Man]

Will have to b multible sites throughout the media..I thought of spikes going into the sides of the pot then put the coco/perlite in the pot?

Yeah i you could oxygen the feed water and use a stake that releases the water inside the media as one option.

But i have a hard to explain concept of say using a 3 gal pail and 3 gal bags. Then attaching the 1/4” lines like in a hydro system. Its alot more complex than that but when i grow next in going to try it in coco and ill figure something out

 

[Max]

B funny if you could use vehicle injectors ..telling your mates your plants are injected with o2 ha.

 

[Aqua Man]

Some facts on how this work for aero, hydro and fog. We chose these methods because of the feasibility for ise with an o2 concentrator.

By concentrating the o2 levels in the atmosphere where the water is as the water tries to reach equilibrium with the gases in the air it leads to DO levels that are inline. This takes advantage of henrys law.

So its then possible to have many times the amount of DO as would be achieved with perfect aeration.

The most efficient way with the ability to reach the highest DO is aeroponic and fogponic. The roots can have levels of up to 90%+ of o2 available at all times. And i would suggest hydro, aero or fog at this time.

I will be doing some testing with coco later this year.

It will replace the need for airstones and pumps. An o2 concentrator is also good for around 50,000hrs before the media needs changes and they are a fraction of the cost of a unit. So yeah it’s expensive but you wont be replacing air stones or pumps for likely 5-10 years plus reaping the benefits of elevated o2.

 

[smoke]

My thoughts were as i explained to @Rootsruler . You use a plastic pail. A support rack and a fabric pot that fits the pail. Th o2 concentrator goes in the bottom of the pail. The fabric bag edges are folded over the edge of the pail. It makes sense in my head but not the most ideal.

Im with @Moe.Red that ideally this is best used for hydro, aero and fog ponics

Can you seal things up enough in rdwc or dwc, or is the oxygen only required in the rez/epicenter?

Edit should say, is oxygen only required in epi/rez

 

[Aqua Man]

Can you seal things up enough in rdwc or dwc, or is the oxygen only required in the rez/epicenter?

Yeah thats why i used coco for the net pots. It just needs to be adequately designed like tight fitting lids. I ran o2 into the Venturi that feed each site so it was constantly pumping in o2 the change in the gas makeup changes the makeup of the water.

O2 is extremely hard to dissolve in water and to super saturate it they use gimmicks to fool the DO sensor. Super saturated mean that the gas will try to escape very quickly as it fights to reach equilibrium.

If we change the equilibrium levels of o2 then the gas wants to stay put and we can elevate o2 levels much higher and more efficiently.

Tldr: yea you need a good sealed system and almost all are these days. But when making your own this needs to be considered

 

[Max]

Sorry aqua..I missed post 27 explaining how it works..

 

[Aqua Man]

Same thing, stoner lol

Is the oxygen only required in the rez in a rdwc system or is it required in each module?

Its all dependant on load but a sealed system with o2 injection will effect the entire system. You could do just the epi but the mire surface water exposure to the concentrated o2 the more efficient the gas exchange and thats better. Thats not to say you can’t maintain the same level of DO if you only do the epi.

the 2 very key factors to increase gas exchange are surface area agitation and water column mixing. The more of each the more efficient the gas exchange but at some point it becomes excessive. I cannot yet say the ideals with 100% confidence…. Just not enough data yet.

If you just wanted to do the epi and i think that would be adequate ideally you would want a mixing pump in there preferably with a Venturi

 

[Rootsruler]

May work better to use a fabric pot and place the airstone into a plastic pail then the favric pot over top.

The airstone will get the plugged and need cleaned periodically. Imo

Love it! Great idea. That's how I'm going to set it up so that I minimize plugging up the airstone.

 

[Franksta]

For hydroponics i did this using a venturi to suck in 90%+ of o2.

In aeroponics and fogponics it can be directly injected into the rootzone.

Its no secret that faster growth is a result of the availability of o2 in the rootzone. Soil being slower due to the lower gas exchange and air holding capacity.

To soiless like coco and hydro where it’s limited to around 8-9%

Where aeroponic and fogponic being the fastest is around 20-21% with good gas exchange.

Well this can be raised to 90%+ with an o2 concentrator. No data yet as to where it peaks as there are very few studies available because it was not easily accomplished until now.

Moe tested I believe close to 300% o2 levels in his hydro system which is right around the o2 levels of an aeroponic system.

I wonder how much constant flow of O2 might affect temperature regulation especially 02 exchange capacity at high temperature ie 80+f or 26.66+c


On a side note I think it's actually cooling the whole thing while it's happening... Via a type of convection I think maybe. Not sure exactly

But should have some type of net cooling effects

This is the magic bottle neck in the bottom half of the plants IMO

 

[Observer]

Yeah i you could oxygen the feed water and use a stake that releases the water inside the media as one option.

But i have a hard to explain concept of say using a 3 gal pail and 3 gal bags. Then attaching the 1/4” lines like in a hydro system. Its alot more complex than that but when i grow next in going to try it in coco and ill figure something out

The bags as a air cushion under the medium?

 

[Aqua Man]

I wonder how much constant flow of O2 might affect temperature regulation especially 02 exchange capacity at high temperature ie 80+f or 26.66+c


On a side note I think it's actually cooling the whole thing while it's happening... Via a type of convection I think maybe. Not sure exactly

But should have some type of net cooling effects
View attachment 11022

Im not sure how it effects rootzone temp but i could see it possibly helping plabt temps through regulation of transpiration rates

 

[Observer]

I wonder how much constant flow of O2 might affect temperature regulation especially 02 exchange capacity at high temperature ie 80+f or 26.66+c


On a side note I think it's actually cooling the whole thing while it's happening... Via a type of convection I think maybe. Not sure exactly

But should have some type of net cooling effects

This is the magic bottle neck in the bottom half of the plants IMO
View attachment 11022

Colder water would hold more oxygen right?

As there is less energy?

 

[Franksta]

Colder water would hold more oxygen right?

As there is less energy?

Yes but As more storage potential. Not less. The cool is good for this side of the biological battery

Energy coming mostly from the top of the canopy. Mostly but not all. There's (bio)chemical energy below but it's not temperature dependent like you think about above the plants... It's a cooler zone

It's why everything growing towards the light... It's all moving along an electron hydrogen gradient... Oxygen is the donor element

 

[Aqua Man]

The bags as a air cushion under the medium?

The bags creating separation where you can control the environment that the media is exposed to better

 

[Aqua Man]

Colder water would hold more oxygen right?

As there is less energy?

Cold water holds more o2 yes. There are several implications to increasing o2 and part of that is the fact you will no longer be limited by temperature for the concentration of o2 that can be dissolved in water

 

[Aqua Man]

That means plants may like the temperature they do for many reasons one if which is o2 concentration so by changing the equilibrium in essence we may change the plants likes or need on water temp allowing them to grow in much higher temps as was my experience for a period my root temps were over 90f and averaged probably about 82f. Without the o2 concentrator i do not believe this would be possible

 

[Franksta]

So are there any type of solar fogger mister I can make? They sound really efficient if I don't need to plug it in

I've got a few small solar pumps

 

[Observer]

So are there any type of solar fogger mister I can make? They sound really efficient if I don't need to plug it in

I've got a few small solar pumps

A fogger powered by a solar panel?

 

[Aqua Man]

So are there any type of solar fogger mister I can make? They sound really efficient if I don't need to plug it in

I've got a few small solar pumps

They can be run off solar panels yep and pretty low wattage

 

[Observer]

Thought these were kinda neat lol

 

[Observer]

Ok this is cool

 

[Rootsruler]

Love it! So many ideas swirling around in my head from the education y'all are giving me!!!

Would it be advisable to set up a small water fountain, like the one Observer posted, in the reservoir for DO or are their better ways of doing that?

 

[Aqua Man]

Love it! So many ideas swirling around in my head from the education y'all are giving me!!!

Would it be advisable to set up a small water fountain, like the one Observer posted, in the reservoir for DO or are their better ways of doing that?

Trickle filter is one I absolutely live but not done in hydro yet… it’s probably the best option to do organic hydro. Scale of this filter is important

 

[tobh]

So with the increased levels of O2, what implications happen with the pH and the corrosiveness of the solution? Given H2O2 is effectively water with a boosted level of O2, and we hydro guys know how corrosive that shit is (eg, don't get it on you because that shit buuuuurns), are you effectively creating H2O2 in the res? Or despite the elevated concentration of O2, you're still not reaching the point where there's the chemical reaction to bind the excess oxygen to the H2O molecule?

Trying to understand the underlying chemistry that's going on here, or could potentially occur.

 

[Rootsruler]

Trickle filter is one I absolutely live but not done in hydro yet… it’s probably the best option to do organic hydro. Scale of this filter is important

Can you go into more detail about this? I would imagine the longer the water is dropping the more DO is occurring?

 

[tobh]

Love it! So many ideas swirling around in my head from the education y'all are giving me!!!

Would it be advisable to set up a small water fountain, like the one Observer posted, in the reservoir for DO or are their better ways of doing that?

I'll back up what @Aqua Man said re: venturis. Of the various methods for increasing surface area of a solution and maximizing DO, venturis have been my absolute favorite method. Almost nothing else compares imo

 

[Aqua Man]

So with the increased levels of O2, what implications happen with the pH and the corrosiveness of the solution? Given H2O2 is effectively water with a boosted level of O2, and we hydro guys know how corrosive that shit is (eg, don't get it on you because that shit buuuuurns), are you effectively creating H2O2 in the res? Or despite the elevated concentration of O2, you're still not reaching the point where there's the chemical reaction to bind the excess oxygen to the H2O molecule?

Trying to understand the underlying chemistry that's going on here, or could potentially occur.

Look up henrys law. Oxygen as in o2 is not nearly as oxidative as h2o2 so no burn. It’s completely different.

H2o2 is extremely short lived and as it breaks down the extra o2 is released via gas exchange. This make it extremely ineffective for this use

 

[Rootsruler]

I'll back up what @Aqua Man said re: venturis. Of the various methods for increasing surface area of a solution and maximizing DO, venturis have been my absolute favorite method. Almost nothing else compares imo

Can you show me some examples?

 

[Aqua Man]

Can you go into more detail about this? I would imagine the longer the water is dropping the more DO is occurring?

Ot more do just better gas exchange keeping the water closer to saturation

 

[Aqua Man]

Be back in a few bit read up on henrys law and i bet it starts making much more sense. Easier to understand what im saying and why.. need like 15 min