One_bell here, newbie and need advice on RDWC and auto's for 2nd run

[One_Bell]

Hello fellow buddies,

My name is One_Bell and I just started my second round of autoflowers in RDWC. Started the first run in aeroponics as seedlings and after two weeks I transplanted them to the RDWC system. They got shocked but bounced back pretty good. However, the last three week where hell. They stopped drinking, probably because I over fed them.


Day 44 after sprouting:

66 days after sprouting:

I got the feeling I overfeed them. Went up to 1.5EC day 45, which is way to high for autoflowers+rdwc I learned later on. I did have some luck applying Perceys chart for ph and ec fluctuations but I am interested if this was really the case.

Pictures above are from two F1 Epsilon (RQS) auto's, under a Mars Hydro FC4800 evo with all the four Adlight (IR, UV, Blue, Deep Red), Growrilla RDWC system + waterchiller, 24/7 monitoring with a Bluelab Guardian wifi, 1mx1m tent, 6" inline fan, 4 6" oscillating fans, heater, humidifier and an AI+ controller from inifinity to connect all the pieces together. The whole story can be found by googling: One_bells-first-grow-f1-epsilon-auto-rdwc for more pictures and information.

So this second round I planted some Lemon Cherry Cookies (autoflower) but planted the seeds this time in the Growrilla netcups right away to prevent shocking them. Some pictures of the roots yesterday:




Pictures of the roots today:



The two small ladies:





Now my question for this round is: what are the correct feeding values PPM and EC wise for these autoflowers in RDWC?
They sprouted on March 31st/first of April, so I would say this is day 15. Currently at 300PPM 0.4EC, 5.7-5.9pH with an average of 5.8 for the last week, light at 300PPFD 16" from plants.
Temp around 25C and humidity of 60-65%.

 

[Skinnypuppy80]

Welcome to the site, glad to see ya! I won't bother giving you advice, I'll leave that to the experienced growers here!

 

[One_Bell]

Thanks for welcoming me Skinny! Looking forward to see more pictures of your grow

 

[MiGrampa]

Welcome to Bud Builders! I'm a soil grower so I'm not the one to guide you through the ins and outs of an RDWC system, but we do have those people here. I'd agree with your observation though ... plants were over-fed. @Aqua Man is one of our resident hydro guys. So is @moe.red. There's also some others who are very good hydro growers. You've come to the right place for help!

 

[One_Bell]

Thank you MiGrampa! I have read ppms for Veg Max 800 and 600ppm for flower, but it did not listen the scale of ppm’s (x500 of x700) and rather would now the correct EC values for these stages of growth. I hope someone with hands-one experience can tell me.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

I'm a noob and in soil. Just wanted to say welcome to Bud Builders. Like @MiGrampa said, there are some great hydro guys here. I'm sure you'll get some good recommendations. I'm going to browse @GrumpAzz 's grow threads. I think I remember his early hydro efforts being well documented and having recommendations from some of the super experienced guys. If I find something close to what you're looking at, I'll share a link to it.

 

[One_Bell]

I'm a noob and in soil. Just wanted to say welcome to Bud Builders. Like @MiGrampa said, there are some great hydro guys here. I'm sure you'll get some good recommendations. I'm going to browse @GrumpAzz 's grow threads. I think I remember his early hydro efforts being well documented and having recommendations from some of the super experienced guys. If I find something close to what you're looking at, I'll share a link to it.

Cool, Thanks for the welcome and to point that specific user with well documented thread out, Will definitely look into it!

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Cool, Thanks for the welcome and to point that specific user with well documented thread out, Will definitely look into it!

Sorry @One_Bell. That wasn't a wise comment, on my part. I poked around threads by some of the hydro guys and seeing how varied their targets are was eye opening. It looks like there are plenty of things that influence the ideal nutrient levels for individual systems and different ways to best measure those levels.

I'm looking forward to seeing the hydro gurus login and start chatting with you. It'll be a good learning opportunity for me. It looks like you've already acquired an solid collection of equipment to this point in your second grow. It's going be fun watching you put it to work growing out these sweet autos.

 

[Observer]

The plants look mostly healthy to me, If the bottom leafs are dieing off, then do 0.1 E.C Incremental increases.

Nutrient,or elemental, Ratio is important too.

You should be fine around 400 PPM (500 scale).

There's "correct" ranges but not a correct number for a specific growth period, the plant will show you.


For example, a highly optimized growth system and environment may need "10", a inconsistent environment with a inefficient growth method may need "3", and depending on that plants genes, while also accounting for all the other possible variables, aiding or harming the plant/roots.

And the Ratio it wants or needs changes alongside as well, slightly at least.

 

[Observer]

Perhaps you don't need PPM increase, but maybe a slight nitrogen increase coinciding with the PK ratio, micronutrients are important too though.

 

[Driver77]

What nutrient line are you using?

 

[One_Bell]

I am using Terra Aquatica (GHE) flora series with some boosters:

 

[Pipecarver]

I am using Terra Aquatica (GHE) flora series with some boosters:

View attachment 97512

Hey, welcome. I use general Hydroponics 3 part in an autopot system. a reservoir with float valves controlling the water level.
As I look at your nutes you have a similar line up. I don't see any cal/mag and do you use Epsom salts at all? We have a few DWC guys I'm sure will pop in and help out.

I use 1 tsb epsom salts/gal through veg then switch to Cal/mag at week 3 in flower. This seems to help prevent early yellowing of the leaves and provides calcium through flower when they need it most.

My nute mix in veg for comparison is pretty balanced I mix a 2/2/2 for basic Micro/Grow/Bloom - 3/3/3-4/4/4-5/5/5 -6/6/6 at flip and first 2 weeks of flower + 1tsp epsom salts each feed. I also add fulvic in the form of Diamond Nectar I use at 4/ml/gal.......In flower at 2 weeks I start with KoolBloom - 6 weeks then switch to KoolBloom dry. I don't use any of your other additives but I'm sure they help

In flower starting week 3 I add cal/mag at 5 ml/gal though flower. at week 3...5/5/5/8/5/4/ week 4 ..5/3/3/8/5/4..Cal/mag/ micro/Grow/Bloom/koolbloom/Diamond nectar.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Greetings One Bell and welcome to Bud Builders!

I would say that you most likely overfed those autos so sounds like you realized your errørs there.

Now my question for this round is: what are the correct feeding values PPM and EC wise for these autoflowers in RDWC?

As for how much you should feed them, I let the plants and mostly the water tell me what is going on and what I need to do. Have you seen this chart?

I use this chart to guide me in what the plants want by letting the water give me the clues I need.

You first look at the EC, is it rising? falling? static? Also, is she drinking water? Then, look at the pH. What is the pH trend? up? down? static?

Then, depending on where you land, do what the chart says. I don't change out a new res but adjust a new res. If the res is going past one week old too far, I will change it depending on how the plant is acting.


Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any questions.

 

[One_Bell]

Hey, welcome. I use general Hydroponics 3 part in an autopot system. a reservoir with float valves controlling the water level.
As I look at your nutes you have a similar line up. I don't see any cal/mag and do you use Epsom salts at all? We have a few DWC guys I'm sure will pop in and help out.

I use 1 tsb epsom salts/gal through veg then switch to Cal/mag at week 3 in flower. This seems to help prevent early yellowing of the leaves and provides calcium through flower when they need it most.

My nute mix in veg for comparison is pretty balanced I mix a 2/2/2 for basic Micro/Grow/Bloom - 3/3/3-4/4/4-5/5/5 -6/6/6 at flip and first 2 weeks of flower + 1tsp epsom salts each feed. I also add fulvic in the form of Diamond Nectar I use at 4/ml/gal.......In flower at 2 weeks I start with KoolBloom - 6 weeks then switch to KoolBloom dry. I don't use any of your other additives but I'm sure they help

In flower starting week 3 I add cal/mag at 5 ml/gal though flower. at week 3...5/5/5/8/5/4/ week 4 ..5/3/3/8/5/4..Cal/mag/ micro/Grow/Bloom/koolbloom/Diamond nectar.

Do you grow autoflowers of photo's?

Greetings One Bell and welcome to Bud Builders!

I would say that you most likely overfed those autos so sounds like you realized your errørs there.


As for how much you should feed them, I let the plants and mostly the water tell me what is going on and what I need to do. Have you seen this chart?

I use this chart to guide me in what the plants want by letting the water give me the clues I need.

You first look at the EC, is it rising? falling? static? Also, is she drinking water? Then, look at the pH. What is the pH trend? up? down? static?

Then, depending on where you land, do what the chart says. I don't change out a new res but adjust a new res. If the res is going past one week old too far, I will change it depending on how the plant is acting.


Hope this helps! Let me know if you have any questions.

Right on, this is the chart I came up with after searching and searching and not knowing what to do. In hindsight, when I found the chart I think it was already a bit too late.

The plants grew atleast 2cm in height today, they are really taking of it seems. EC remains static, water level declines and ph is going up slowly, time for a reservoir change I think but that is beceause it has been 10 days now, following the chart I should continue as normal so I will keep this EC value currently.

 

[Skinnypuppy80]

EC remains static, water level declines and ph is going up slowly, time for a reservoir change I think.

It changes by .5 in a day? As u know growing buddy, I know shit about shit! Just thought by that chart, I think u r ok? Just following ur thread and waiting till I see some crazy, big ass colas in the future!
I have not drained my system(50ish gal) since the start 26 days ago. So diff volumes which I think has a part in it to play? My ppms and ph have been stagnant for the last 5 days, it's been very nice!

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

My ppms and ph have been stagnant for the last 5 days, it's been very nice!

That's what I call DIALED IN! Great job

 

[Pipecarver]

Do you grow autoflowers of photo's?


Right on, this is the chart I came up with after searching and searching and not knowing what to do. In hindsight, when I found the chart I think it was already a bit too late.

The plants grew atleast 2cm in height today, they are really taking of it seems. EC remains static, water level declines and ph is going up slowly, time for a reservoir change I think but that is beceause it has been 10 days now, following the chart I should continue as normal so I will keep this EC value currently.

Photo's atm but I don't think it matters, it would just makes the start of flowering faster, Good question though. I'd still follow my balanced feed but start bloom nutes earlier with auto's.

 

[Observer]

Photo's atm but I don't think it matters, it would just makes the start of flowering faster, Good question though. I'd still follow my balanced feed but start bloom nutes earlier with auto's.

They have slightly different genes so I'd say yes, but it would be on the negligible side.

I don't know.

 

[Driver77]

I grow a lot of autos and back when I used a different bloom ratio I would have problems with them yellowing prematurely. I extended the veg cycle of nutrients a few weeks longer with better results. So continuing veg nutes later into flower worked better for me with autos.
I use the same from seed to harvest now and don't have that issue.....Jacks 321

 

[Pipecarver]

I grow a lot of autos and back when I used a different bloom ratio I would have problems with them yellowing prematurely. I extended the veg cycle of nutrients a few weeks longer with better results. So continuing veg nutes later into flower worked better for me with autos.
I use the same from seed to harvest now and don't have that issue.....Jacks 321

I don't start dropping my veg nutes until the 3rd week in flower. I'm at 6/6/6 M/G/B week 2 and 4/4/8 week 3... 3/3/8 week 4 plus my other nutes but I drop the Micro & Grow. I try to build and taper off according to the graph I keep pushing

 

[One_Bell]

It changes by .5 in a day? As u know growing buddy, I know shit about shit! Just thought by that chart, I think u r ok? Just following ur thread and waiting till I see some crazy, big ass colas in the future!
I have not drained my system(50ish gal) since the start 26 days ago. So diff volumes which I think has a part in it to play? My ppms and ph have been stagnant for the last 5 days, it's been very nice!

Good to hear! My system volume is around 30 liters/8 gallons, perhaps that makes it less easy to stabilize?

Photo's atm but I don't think it matters, it would just makes the start of flowering faster, Good question though. I'd still follow my balanced feed but start bloom nutes earlier with auto's.

I already did a lot of research and found that autoflowers need less nutrients then photo's, not only at the start but the whole cycle. Less is more in this case I presume.

I grow a lot of autos and back when I used a different bloom ratio I would have problems with them yellowing prematurely. I extended the veg cycle of nutrients a few weeks longer with better results. So continuing veg nutes later into flower worked better for me with autos.
I use the same from seed to harvest now and don't have that issue.....Jacks 321

I Got this as a tip during my first run also. I switched to bloom nutrient regime when I saw white pistols and was in preflower I think. Someone suggested to keep the veg regiment longer into flower so I switched back with a fresh res change but alrady had the flower nutes in for I think 3 or 4 days.

I don't start dropping my veg nutes until the 3rd week in flower. I'm at 6/6/6 M/G/B week 2 and 4/4/8 week 3... 3/3/8 week 4 plus my other nutes but I drop the Micro & Grow. I try to build and taper off according to the graph I keep pushingView attachment 97639

Thanks for commenting, I am gonna try it this round.

Day 17 since sprouting:














I added some ph'ed RO water to top off the res and added one liter. EC was climbing a little bit after the plants started to drink water, just after 08:00 I added the water and since then it is stable.



Currently at 310PPM 0.4EC, light at 300PPFD 16" from plants.
Temp around 25C and humidity of 60-65%.

One of the upcoming days I will top both plants.

 

[One_Bell]

This the feeding schedule I started using after switching to TA nutes in early veg. These calculations are based on the following schedule from TA:

Should I skip the preflower and continu with the veg regime well into flower and switch to the flower then?

 

[Aqua Man]

Not sure if anyone said it but if your ph is drifting up 0.5 per day you have a buffering issue.

If you have any questions let me know

PH Levels for Cannabis Explained by Aqua Man

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH This will be a...

budbuilders.org

 

[One_Bell]

Not sure if anyone said it but if your ph is drifting up 0.5 per day you have a buffering issue.

If you have any questions let me know

PH Levels for Cannabis Explained by Aqua Man

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH This will be a...

budbuilders.org

Thanks but as you can see in the graph it has been steady 0,0 for the past 24 hours with once adding 4 drops of ph-down. What do you think about that? Still too much drifting? and what about the EC value of 0.4 at this stage? Thanks in advance!

 

[Aqua Man]

Thanks but as you can see in the graph it has been steady 0,0 for the past 24 hours with once adding 4 drops of ph-down. What do you think about that? Still too much drifting? and what about the EC value of 0.4 at this stage? Thanks in advance!

Ill have to get back to you because i need to look into the nutrients. If they are Infact truly organic and not organically derived which i suspect is what they are. it differs as you will need alot more organic nutrients than organically derived. Also organic is a very difficult way to grow in hydro. Organically derived no problem but i want to be sure.

Have a feeling things going on to ight but what is your PH drift over 24 hrs if you completely leave it alone?

 

[moe.red]

Ill have to get back to you because i need to look into the nutrients. If they are Infact truly organic and not organically derived which i suspect is what they are. it differs as you will need alot more organic nutrients than organically derived. Also organic is a very difficult way to grow in hydro. Organically derived no problem but i want to be sure.

Have a feeling things going on to ight but what is your PH drift over 24 hrs if you completely leave it alone?

Thx for chiming in been meaning to but heavy travel for work over the last 2 weeks.

I agree if organic not great for us.

Roots look great. Good start imo.

 

[Aqua Man]

Thx for chiming in been meaning to but heavy travel for work over the last 2 weeks.

I agree if organic not great for us.

Roots look great. Good start imo.

Hope things are well brother

 

[One_Bell]

I wont touch the ph today, made the last adjustment yesterday evening by adding only four drops of ph-down. So Lets see what happens I guess?

 

[Aqua Man]

I wont touch the ph today, made the last adjustment yesterday evening by adding only four drops of ph-down. So Lets see what happens I guess?

Yeah see what it does in 24 hrs. Do you have ph up?

Are you using RO water?