BlueCollarBob- Bumbling Through My First Grow

[Zen_seeker]

Ha! MacGyver would have done a better job of it while simultaneously disarming a bomb.

Thanks for pointing it out to me. That one flew right over my head, but made perfect sense as soon as you brought it to my attention. When I unboxed the humidifier, I probably literally grunted when I when I saw the probe and the jack for it to plug into, lol.

As I said, not a big deal I still have one off to the side but it can give a different reading. Also watch for anything touching the tip as they get bigger.

I can’t control my environment like I want. Heat, cold, high/low humidity, it can get outside my ability to change pretty quick sometimes.

Even my wife using the basement oven over the weekend made the humidity 10% higher for hours. My leaves show signs of stress here and there but they usually get better in a day or two.

Keep up the good work.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

I have some of those swings, too. Humidity swings are the worst for me. My temps are flatter. Switching to LED lighting should smooth temps out even more. I think partitioning off a smaller lung room would make things a lot easier to dial in and maintain. Down the road...

 

[Observer]

All advice and recommendations are welcomed.

I believe these plants are in late week three or early week 4 of veg (I still need to learn how to identify day 1 of veg, accurately). These plants are still droopy with some curling. I don't "think" I'm overwatering, but this is still a possibility. I think the weather will soon let me set these out to harden some during the day. They will likely go in the ground the first or second week of May.

Nutrients- The only added nutrients they have received are from Lotus Grow. I mixed the amount of nutrient per gallon in accordance with the Lotus feed chart.

Try half or 3/4 of the recommended

These plants were up-potted from solo cups of seedling starter soil to 1 gallon nursery pots of FoxFarm Ocean Forest. Maybe the nutrient added to this soil is too hot???

Light- Still using 400W metal halide. Tops of the plants are 26" to 28" from the bottom of the bulb. Here are the light readings, measured from the top of the plants, that the Photone app gave me. I'm still using a paper diffuser until the little clip on Photone recommends arrives:

View attachment 98165

Here are the 5 plants. You'll see varying degrees of curl from the different plants:
View attachment 98166View attachment 98167View attachment 98168View attachment 98169View attachment 98170

The tops of these two seedlings are 40" from the bottom of the bulb. I plan to use these two for my first indoor effort. So, hopefully, I will figure out a few things from the five bigger plants and and get these two off to a better start. Here are the Photone app readings at tops of the seedlings:

View attachment 98164

Here's the two seedlings. Until now, they have also had clear trays inverted and set on top as makeshift humidity domes:
View attachment 98183View attachment 98184

 

[Driver77]

All advice and recommendations are welcomed.

I believe these plants are in late week three or early week 4 of veg (I still need to learn how to identify day 1 of veg, accurately). These plants are still droopy with some curling. I don't "think" I'm overwatering, but this is still a possibility. I think the weather will soon let me set these out to harden some during the day. They will likely go in the ground the first or second week of May.

Nutrients- The only added nutrients they have received are from Lotus Grow. I mixed the amount of nutrient per gallon in accordance with the Lotus feed chart. These plants were up-potted from solo cups of seedling starter soil to 1 gallon nursery pots of FoxFarm Ocean Forest. Maybe the nutrient added to this soil is too hot???

Light- Still using 400W metal halide. Tops of the plants are 26" to 28" from the bottom of the bulb. Here are the light readings, measured from the top of the plants, that the Photone app gave me. I'm still using a paper diffuser until the little clip on Photone recommends arrives:

View attachment 98165

Here are the 5 plants. You'll see varying degrees of curl from the different plants:
View attachment 98166View attachment 98167View attachment 98168View attachment 98169View attachment 98170

The tops of these two seedlings are 40" from the bottom of the bulb. I plan to use these two for my first indoor effort. So, hopefully, I will figure out a few things from the five bigger plants and and get these two off to a better start. Here are the Photone app readings at tops of the seedlings:

View attachment 98164

Here's the two seedlings. Until now, they have also had clear trays inverted and set on top as makeshift humidity domes:
View attachment 98183View attachment 98184

I noticed the plants looked good on Friday and then droopy here....is this after watering? Maybe considered a diy wick system to take the guess work out of watering?.....or just bottom water even.
I've used FF Ocean Forest and it can be too hot for seedlings but after a week or 2 the seedlings should be fine to transplant into it. They won't need additional nutes for 3 to 4 weeks.

 

[doublej]

Just adding a couple photos showing how some plants are displaying more leaf curl than others. My gut is saying it almost has to be related to light intensity or overwatering. And some plants are just more tolerant than others. So, I'm now running the lights a little further from the tops of the plants. 22" from the bottom of the bulb. I wasn't sure whether to measure from the bottom of the bulb or the bottom of the fixture. I'm guessing it might not matter as long as I find the right spacing and consistently measure from the same point on the light.

The first plant shows more leaf curl than the second. I also noticed that the first plant is more compact and the lower fan leafs are reaching for the light. The second plant is more spindly and it's lower fans are hanging:

View attachment 97455

View attachment 97456

Where's the air coming in from? How is the air entering in? How cold are the pots?

 

[BlueCollarBob]

I noticed the plants looked good on Friday and then droopy here....is this after watering? Maybe considered a diy wick system to take the guess work out of watering?.....or just bottom water even.
I've used FF Ocean Forest and it can be too hot for seedlings but after a week or 2 the seedlings should be fine to transplant into it. They won't need additional nutes for 3 to 4 weeks.

I watered them after lights out the night before. That was from the following morning. Later in the day, they looked much better. Just not as vibrant and obviously healthy as folks on here who have things dialed in. The leaf curling is really bugging me.

I do plan to use some type of bottom watering system when I grow out those two seedlings indoors. Any recommendations. Autopots look nice, but spendy. I like the reservoir option with those. I've read where wick systems like AC Infinity require refilling often. I recently set up Blumats for some house plants, but they are water only. Nutrients can clog them.

The older plants will be going in the ground outdoors in 2-3 weeks.

 

[Driver77]

As long as they're straightening out during the day should be good....mine look like they're about to die an hour before lights out....and not so great at lights on some days. Winter/spring rh swings don't help matters.

Spider Farmer and a few others makes fairly inexpensive wick systems with reservoirs that might suit your needs. like this https://www.spider-farmer.com/products/self-watering-system-4kit/
I have to fill my AC infin bases daily when they're in flower...when in veg while their smaller it's every few days....they do make a larger one though mine are the small ones.
Autopots are spendy but work great, no argument there.
I use Jacks in everything now and no more clogging issues. I tried Fox Farm stuff in them at first and it would clog the wicks. Are you using organics?
Blumats work great and I've seen guys feed through them...back to organics or not I think.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Where's the air coming in from? How is the air entering in? How cold are the pots?

The air is being drawn in through two mesh vents, one on each side, at the bottom of the tent. I have opened the velcro flaps that cover these inlets and the exhaust fan, located at the top of the tent, draws the air in.

I haven't measured the soil temperatures. Should I be doing that? I do have a pretty good temperature swing when the light turns on and off. The metal halide bulb puts out some heat and this is confined to a small tent. During 18hrs of lights on, The air temperature, measured at the top of the plants, is averaging around 80℉/27℃ during lights on and 65℉/18℃ during the 6hrs the lights are off.

Without measuring, I'd say tabletop the pots are currently sitting on is 20" to 24" off of the ground. I do have a 4" riser that I plan to install under the tent to get it off of the basement floor, before grow bags are placed directly on the bottom of the tent.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

As long as they're straightening out during the day should be good....mine look like they're about to die an hour before lights out....and not so great at lights on some days. Winter/spring rh swings don't help matters.

Spider Farmer and a few others makes fairly inexpensive wick systems with reservoirs that might suit your needs. like this https://www.spider-farmer.com/products/self-watering-system-4kit/
I have to fill my AC infin bases daily when they're in flower...when in veg while their smaller it's every few days....they do make a larger one though mine are the small ones.
Autopots are spendy but work great, no argument there.
I use Jacks in everything now and no more clogging issues. I tried Fox Farm stuff in them at first and it would clog the wicks. Are you using organics?
Blumats work great and I've seen guys feed through them...back to organics or not I think.

The Blumats I'm using are the terracotta "carrots" that you insert into the soil and the water seeps through the terracotta and into the soil. I have just read their literature saying to top feed nutrients as they can clog up the terracotta carrots. It sounds like some nutrients are safe to use, unless they're being used with the top irrigation stuff from Blumat. I haven't looked into it. I have them set up in houseplants and don't mind occasionally hand-watering some nutes in. I think @steamroller uses some version of Blumats. Maybe he'll see this and chime in on what he's using and whether he runs nutrients through his set up.

I'm so damned split on which direction to go I can't make up my mind. I think I'm leaning towards living soil and I believe that requires larger containers. For automated bottom watering, that might limit me to one of the living soil containers that are made to fit Autopot's Tray2Grow system. So part of me says to go ahead and get the living soil set up and buy Gaia or some other premade living soil and nutrients. The other part of me says to keep this grow simple and use Foxfarm or Coast of Maine soil in a couple of grow bags. Actually, I might just go ahead and commit to normal soil, this time and start work on developing my own living soil for the next round.

This is the first time I've looked at Jack's line-up. Looks like they have options for about any type of grow. I even saw an outdoor mix and that UV blend. Interesting stuff and nice hearing that it's working well for you .

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Try half or 3/4 of the recommended

Yep. I think that's what I should try next. Feels like the lights and watering issues are getting close to where they need to be. I makes sense to try cutting back on nutrients, I think.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Nice score Bob!
You have a solid and well cared for 14 year old HPS/MH all in one light. These have been discontinued but inside parts like the ignitor which is what usually breaks down can be bought and swapped out if it ever stops working but these ballasts are workhorses and can accrue a lot of hours before that happens.
You can use a 400 watt MH lamp for veg then a 400 watt HPS for flower. In the final two weeks before harvest you can switch back to the MH for a ripening blue spectrum that can enhance resin production.

The caveat to these lights are they need to run hot to get to full brilliance. You'll have help with the glass between lamp and canopy acting as a heat shield so it won't burn up the plants and on the exhaust you'll need an inline fan to pull heat out.
What you don't want to do is have cool air go thru one side of the vent, passing over the lamp, and cooling it down reducing it's effectiveness. So ya figure a way to remove heat but not cool the lamp if that makes any sense.
It will cover a footprint for flowering around 3.5'x3.5' and you'll want it around 12-20" above canopy during flower. For seedlings and veg, much higher at 30"-40". It will easily grow plants up to around 3-4' tall

I'm an idiot. I was browsing through old posts and found where I had shared about a buddy gifting me his old MH/HPS light. I've been fussing around trying to figure the right distance between the light and the plants. The whole while, I was overlooking advice on using this light that @Bandit420 shared last September

 

[doublej]

The air is being drawn in through two mesh vents, one on each side, at the bottom of the tent. I have opened the velcro flaps that cover these inlets and the exhaust fan, located at the top of the tent, draws the air in.

I haven't measured the soil temperatures. Should I be doing that? I do have a pretty good temperature swing when the light turns on and off. The metal halide bulb puts out some heat and this is confined to a small tent. During 18hrs of lights on, The air temperature, measured at the top of the plants, is averaging around 80℉/27℃ during lights on and 65℉/18℃ during the 6hrs the lights are off.

Without measuring, I'd say tabletop the pots are currently sitting on is 20" to 24" off of the ground. I do have a 4" riser that I plan to install under the tent to get it off of the basement floor, before grow bags are placed directly on the bottom of the tent.

View attachment 98266

Nah, I wouldn't say you "need" to measure soil temps. What i do is check the pots with the back of my hand, if there chilly, it's not gonna help the roots. Looks like the rh is pretty baseline average, are your pots drying back slow or fast.? Almost 70% is great rh if it can be exchanged, not sure if that's what happens in here?
My air never stops moving, ever!...it "helps" me heat the hole grow space, pots, floor included. Now this is just what works here for me, from the past,,hehe...

Sorry not funny....

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Nah, I wouldn't say you "need" to measure soil temps. What i do is check the pots with the back of my hand, if there chilly, it's not gonna help the roots. Looks like the rh is pretty baseline average, are your pots drying back slow or fast.? Almost 70% is great rh if it can be exchanged, not sure if that's what happens in here?

Nothing catches my attention as drying back too fast or too slow, but I don't have the personal experience to lean on. Lately, they've been needing watered every second or third day in these one gallon pots.

I'm going to have to check out these soil temps. You've got me curious.

My air never stops moving, ever!...it "helps" me heat the hole grow space, pots, floor included. Now this is just what works here for me, from the past,,hehe...

Sorry not funny....

I've picked up on others talking about the importance of good air movement. Currently, I have a fixed fan in the bottom of the tent blowing straight up and an oscillating fan blowing back-and-forth across the tops of the plants. Again going on gut and not experience, but it feels like good air movement and exchange.

Thanks for the help

 

[doublej]

Nothing catches my attention as drying back too fast or too slow, but I don't have the personal experience to lean on. Lately, they've been needing watered every second or third day in these one gallon pots.

I'm going to have to check out these soil temps. You've got me curious.

I've picked up on others talking about the importance of good air movement. Currently, I have a fixed fan in the bottom of the tent blowing straight up and an oscillating fan blowing back-and-forth across the tops of the plants. Again going on gut and not experience, but it feels like good air movement and exchange.

Thanks for the help

I gotta ya brother it's not hard.. you've had plants outside right?
Bring that thought inside...
Like just a few minutes ago it rained a little bit and flooded the pots a bit and then a big wid Strom is happening Now in my tent.....fk SORRY...RSO makes me tell storys...sorry
"IMO"!!!!:; I look at a tent and say fuck first!!
Alright I ATTACH my room/tent, ice truck aluminum box...yes that's right (it's another story) .
There's air to move top/middle/bottom. NOW AGAIN for me with the way my air is here, PM, bud rot, mold all have me watching the dead air spaces and I make sure some kind of ait flow like outside.
Inside as Mother Nature's helper we can help it out. That's were lights and fans and shit come in man CooL Ass grow Forums.....Help out ...
Try more movement of air first it's the easiest thing to do.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

I gotta ya brother it's not hard.. you've had plants outside right?

Last year was my first grow of any kind. It was outdoors. Made mistakes, learned a lot, and had a blast.

I'm with you on the air movement. All of that makes perfect sense and I have the same concerns you have about powdery mildew, etc.. Pretty high humidity around here. It's a small tent and it feels like I have air moving pretty good in there. I do plan to pick up a second oscillating clip fan to replace a stationary fan that I have in the bottom. I think it's the 6" version of the new 9" you picked up.

Alright I ATTACH my room/tent, ice truck aluminum box...yes that's right (it's another story) .

This got my attention. Has to be a cool story there. I'll be keeping my eyes open for that one .

 

[doublej]

Last year was my first grow of any kind. It was outdoors. Made mistakes, learned a lot, and had a blast.

I'm with you on the air movement. All of that makes perfect sense and I have the same concerns you have about powdery mildew, etc.. Pretty high humidity around here. It's a small tent and it feels like I have air moving pretty good in there. I do plan to pick up a second oscillating clip fan to replace a stationary fan that I have in the bottom. I think it's the 6" version of the new 9" you picked up.

Thing is a beast and I mean beast!!
First thing that stuck with me was you can always trun it down, but never up. Meaning if you under fan and need to trun it up your fucked...

This got my attention. Has to be a cool story there. I'll be keeping my eyes open for that one .

Haha, pics are on my old phone, I'll findem when I find the phone lmao

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Impulsiveness got me, today. I got home late and found some training clips I had ordered waiting on me. I intended to practice on one plant. Then watch it and see how it handled the stress. Next thing I know, I had hacked on and bent all of them out of shape. All got their second topping, removed some lower fan leaves and installed clips on the nodes from first topping and the nodes immediately below that. I see some people don't keep anything anything below the first topping. So maybe those should go, if these get back into decent shape??? One of the White Widows only had one side of the nodes. Maybe I damaged it early on.

Anyway, here's the before and after pics. Hoping they make it back to decent health... We shall see:

Here's where the White Widow is missing a bud site. It's pretty obvious at top left in the photo above. I wish I had left the fan leaf there, since it wasn't interfering with training and could have helped harness some energy:

 

[Observer]

Impulsiveness got me, today. I got home late and found some training clips I had ordered waiting on me. I intended to practice on one plant. Then watch it and see how it handled the stress. Next thing I know, I had hacked on and bent all of them out of shape. All got their second topping, removed some lower fan leaves and installed clips on the nodes from first topping and the nodes immediately below that. I see some people don't keep anything anything below the first topping. So maybe those should go, if these get back into decent shape??? One of the White Widows only had one side of the nodes. Maybe I damaged it early on.

Anyway, here's the before and after pics. Hoping they make it back to decent health... We shall see:

View attachment 98557
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Here's where the White Widow is missing a bud site. It's pretty obvious at top left in the photo above. I wish I had left the fan leaf there, since it wasn't interfering with training and could have helped harness some energy:
View attachment 98560

Nicely done.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Well, they still have the will to live:

 

[TomH]

Well, they still have the will to live:

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Looking at the stems on those, makes me think something like either Agrocybe (dark brown spores) or Armillaria (white spores).

I’ve honestly never seen either of those on pots. They eat decaying matter (Armillaria can kill living plants by infecting the roots).

Neither of these look like normal soil mushrooms (which are usually Leucoagaricus or similar small Lepiotoid mushrooms.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Looking at the stems on those, makes me think something like either Agrocybe (dark brown spores) or Armillaria (white spores).

I’ve honestly never seen either of those on pots. They eat decaying matter (Armillaria can kill living plants by infecting the roots).

Neither of these look like normal soil mushrooms (which are usually Leucoagaricus or similar small Lepiotoid mushrooms.

I suspect they will be dead when I get home, this evening. They were under a dome that was holding in moisture.

I don't know what they are. Google lens says they are Panaeolus Cinctulusa: A very common, widespread, mildly psychoactive psilocybin mushroom. Beats me, but hope they aren't the root eating variety you mentioned.

 

[TomH]

I suspect they will be dead when I get home, this evening. They were under a dome that was holding in moisture.

I don't know what they are. Google lens says they are Panaeolus Cinctulusa: A very common, widespread, mildly psychoactive psilocybin mushroom. Beats me, but hope they aren't the root eating variety you mentioned.

That’s not a bad one to check. It should have really dark brownish/black spores if so!
Pan cinc is mildly hallucinogenic, some grow kits from High Times used to sell them so there is obviously some good ones out there. Everything I read on the oracle of google says no psilocybin. Makes me wonder if, what was hallucinogenic was split off the species. Mycologists like to split both genera and species, sometimes entire families. They are anal retentive about IDs.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

That’s not a bad one to check. It should have really dark brownish/black spores if so!
Pan cinc is mildly hallucinogenic, some grow kits from High Times used to sell them so there is obviously some good ones out there. Everything I read on the oracle of google says no psilocybin. Makes me wonder if, what was hallucinogenic was split off the species. Mycologists like to split both genera and species, sometimes entire families. They are anal retentive about IDs.

I'll see if there's anything left to inspect closer when I get home. I removed the little humidity dome and expect they dried up an disappeared.

I had an almost constant little army of mushrooms arounf my outdoor plants last year. They were different, but I never researched those either.

 

[TomH]

I'll see if there's anything left to inspect closer when I get home. I removed the little humidity dome and expect they dried up an disappeared.

I had an almost constant little army of mushrooms arounf my outdoor plants last year. They were different, but I never researched those either.

View attachment 98804

That’s in the genus Coprinosis or Coprinellus. They are poop digesters. This is of those things where mycologists split these two genera from another genus (Coprinus) based on really mundane things that need either a microscope or gene analysis hardware to tell the difference.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

That’s in the genus Coprinosis or Coprinellus. They are poop digesters. This is of those things where mycologists split these two genera from another genus (Coprinus) based on really mundane things that need either a microscope or gene analysis hardware to tell the difference.

I was wrong. Fungi were still there last night. I went ahead and chucked them.


You guys might see things I don't have the experience to pick up on, yet. I think the plants are "looking" healthier. I went without any nutrients for the last two waterings. I was thinking the young plants, between the rich soil and nutrients, might have been getting fed too much. I'll probably start taking them outside to start hardening tomorrow. The seedlings will soon go into grow bags and stay in the tent through harvest or I mess up and kill them early, lol.




The Lemon Sour Diesel is definitely built different. More lanky and whispy than the White Widow and Orange Widow. The photos don't show it, but it's a darker green and the new growth isn't as light as on the others.

 

[steamroller]

Be careful if you are mixing indoor and outdoor plants in the same place.
Once a pest is brought in it only has one food choice.
I go as far as to not tend one of the two on the same day when growing indoors and outdoors and would never bring a plant back in once it touched outdoors. I learned the hard way.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Be careful if you are mixing indoor and outdoor plants in the same place.
Once a pest is brought in it only has one food choice.
I go as far as to not tend one of the two on the same day when growing indoors and outdoors and would never bring a plant back in once it touched outdoors. I learned the hard way.

Yessir. Once they come out of the tent, they won't go back in. I plan to set them out in the mornings and bring the on a covered porch or outbuilding, if we get another freeze forecast. Sometimes we get another little cold blast this time of year, but they will likely go in the ground next weekend or shortly after.

 

[TomH]

Gorgeous plants.

 

[BlueCollarBob]

Gorgeous plants.

Thanks! Still scratching my head over what I did wrong germinating that Green Crack. Should be the same as what you grew out. Gotta be missing something obvious.

 

[TomH]

Thanks! Still scratching my head over what I did wrong germinating that Green Crack. Should be the same as what you grew out. Gotta be missing something obvious.

I highly recommend trying GC again, if you are out of seeds, I have left over seeds, I can get you going with what ever I have left (minus 1, wanna grow Green outdoors next year).

Let me know, I might need your ship to address.