Cloning variables

[ninjadip]

ok ok, i am not in "trouble" or anything like that, just curious.
I just started my cloning operation back up, and very curious about the varying time for cuts to root in aeroponics taken at the same time from the same plant, and about the same size. These were all taken at the same time, i think a week ago.

Just curious how some can differ so much. I have all 3 in the middle of the aeroponics so i don't think it's a matter of placement in the cloner relating to the sprayers and all that. This isn't any kind of urgent issue, just curious. Does everyone experience this amount of variance when making clones? I wonder if it is the amount of time i let the cut sit in the rooting gel... I can't really think of another variable. Same light, same nutrients, close enough to be the same aeroponic spray application, same mom, same day cut.

Going to tag @Moe.Red and @Aqua Man my two hydro gurus.

Slowest one:


second slowest:


best: rooted in 2-3 days



cloning environment: (the tall one is not one in the above pics, it was from an earlier cut) don't laugh at my beans popping lol,


Environment under, you can see there are zero issues with aeroponic spray coverage lol. BTW is there a better way to stabilize the sprayer than with how i have it weighted?

 

[Observer]

Got the spray timer down to 5 seconds on 12 minutes off and everything is still wet before the start of the next cycle. Sounds like a recipe for disaster but they all seemed fine this morning.

This was the growth overnight of the stubborn one. Thanks @Moe.Red , feel like an idiot, the timer adjustment seems obvious now. For some reason I thought the more spray the better, but I didn't think it through.

Try fifteen minutes, you want a slight dry back.

 

[Observer]

I think tops do best till a certain point or thickness maybe? Like someone else said, once they get woody on the stem, they are very slow to root. Last time I did clones it was the tops of plants that were pretty big that I wanted to top, so instead of chucking them I went down more and made clones... they took over 2 weeks to root, I almost chucked em... probably would have e been a little faster with a fancy cloner instead of old school peat pods and a dome.

New growth does best usually ime, which is usually the new side shoots, lateral branching, and the top new growth.

 

[Rootsruler]

Try fifteen minutes, you want a slight dry back.

You could probably go every half hour and still be good....

 

[moe.red]

Exactly what happens.

These plant like DRY TIMES

Plant morphology is slightly different in hydro, the roots will grow slightly different.

If I may, can I change that to plants IN SOIL like dryback?

It’s about O2.

Roots in my fog cloner never dry out.

I would be willing to go out on a limb and say it is the most explosive root growth I have ever seen anywhere. I’d be willing to put that to the test with a clone challenge. Put my money where my mouth is.

 

[Rootsruler]

Try fifteen minutes, you want a slight dry back.

New growth does best usually ime, which is usually the new side shoots, lateral branching, and the top new growth.

This has been my experience also in regards to cut sites.

How would you go about initiating a doable "dry time" for the fresh cuts in soil? Water them in and let the pot get light like in normal veg? I would think the timeframe you have to rehydrate would be smaller than in veg since the plant is still pretty fragile.

 

[freezeland]

Then there are growers out there who root their cuts in a cup of water. I’ll just leave that there.

 

[moe.red]

This has been my experience also in regards to cut sites.

How would you go about initiating a doable "dry time" for the fresh cuts in soil? Water them in and let the pot get light like in normal veg? I would think the timeframe you have to rehydrate would be smaller than in veg since the plant is still pretty fragile.

I’d like to know this too.

 

[smoke]

soil is just slow as fuck, it just is based, on how it works.

roots love oxygen, which usually isnt that high in compacted soils as far as id think/know, especially if you dont water properly.

indicas may root faster in general as they have shorter life spans usually compared to sativas, but i also could be inclined to think it wont have much difference between indica/sat/hybrid besides the genes them selfs and of course, ENV params -

(i have no data on this and base this on absolutely nothing besides my briefly brief growing exp)

by synthetic media, do you mean just coco/perlite and or synthetic nutrients?

synthetic nutrients are already in ionic form and ready to go/when dissolved in water, organics gotta break down into ions first, for the plants to able able to uptake.

My clones usually come from the lower stems when cleaning up the bottom at flip or just before. Cut on a angle rough up the bottom inch with snips.

 

[freezeland]

My clones usually come from the lower stems when cleaning up the bottom at flip or just before. Cut on an angle rough up the bottom inch with snips.

Winner winner

 

[moe.red]

My clones usually come from the lower stems when cleaning up the bottom at flip or just before. Cut on an angle rough up the bottom inch with snips.

You use any hormones?

 

[TSD]

If I may, can I change that to plants IN SOIL like dryback?

It’s about O2.

Roots in my fog cloner never dry out.

I would be willing to go out on a limb and say it is the most explosive root growth I have ever seen anywhere. I’d be willing to put that to the test with a clone challenge. Put my money where my mouth is.

That would be a fun one!

 

[smoke]

You use any hormones?

Rooting jel and plain water in cloner

Clonex

 

[Observer]

If I may, can I change that to plants IN SOIL like dryback?

It’s about O2.

Roots in my fog cloner never dry out.

I would be willing to go out on a limb and say it is the most explosive root growth I have ever seen anywhere. I’d be willing to put that to the test with a clone challenge. Put my money where my mouth is.

Yes, rootzone o2 is probably one of the most impactful variables behind genes.

that's why I included the bottom bit about hydroponics and plant morphology.

And you're fog cloner is o2 injected right?
These guys don't have that efficiency like your system, why he needs more of a dry back perhaps. To get that o2

So in his context.

 

[Observer]

Then there are growers out there who root their cuts in a cup of water. I’ll just leave that there.

It's slow as fuck.

 

[ninjadip]

You could probably go every half hour and still be good....

I think you are right

 

[Observer]

A perfect balance between moisture/water content and oxygen content at/on the surface area of the stems where we want to root is what we want to achieve.

Not including proper humidity and temperature levels.

 

[Aqua Man]

Dry back is needed for the o2 in a dense media but clones dont have roots and dont use much o2 because of that. The important tging is they stay moist or wet until they produce roots then they need a dry back if in a dense media for the o2…

@Moe.Red i think you will agree that o2 is far more important than most realize.

 

[Observer]

Dry back is needed for the o2 in a dense media but clones dont have roots and dont use much o2 because of that. The important tging is they stay moist or wet until they produce roots then they need a dry back if in a dense media for the o2…

@Moe.Red i think you will agree that o2 is far more important than most realize.

Hack the o2 of the rootzone and get everything else in proper parameters

They blow up.

 

[Aqua Man]

Hack the o2 of the rootzone and get everything else in proper parameters

They blow up.

Yes that what moe is doing… thats why i would want in on that action if anyone thinks they can get a clone of the same mother to root faster or stronger than him.

I keep putting off my post on o2 but im gonna get it done come hell or high water this weekend. I had a business idea and thats pushed way back now so the fine folks here can just reap the info. I will get to it someday hopefully…. But elevated o2 in the rootzone is as impactful as co2 in the atmosphere and possibly more so. A combination is… well ill get into when i make the thread.

I apologize to everyone who kinda knows and still doesn’t know for holding out so long… a few of you already know this and i dont care if anyone shares or wants to talk openly about it now. @Moe.Red was absolutely instrumental in helping and testing because this started as an idea in my head and he put the work in

 

[Observer]

Yes that what moe is doing… thats why i would want in on that action if anyone thinks they can get a clone of the same mother to root faster or stronger than him.

I keep putting off my post on o2 but im gonna get it done come hell or high water this weekend. I had a business idea and thats pushed way back now so the fine folks here can just reap the info. I will get to it someday hopefully…. But elevated o2 in the rootzone is as impactful as co2 in the atmosphere and possibly more so. A combination is… well ill get into when i make the thread.

I apologize to everyone who kinda knows and still doesn’t know for holding out so long… a few of you already know this and i dont care if anyone shares or wants to talk openly about it now. @Moe.Red was absolutely instrumental in helping and testing because this started as an idea in my head and he put the work in

Yea I've given a bit of thought into it since I started researching variables more and seeing you're guys test

I'm up for the challenge down the line, of course haha.

He may hit theoretical maximum speed before I can get to it though!

I think he said he wouldn't mess around with oxygen tanks but I would. - (maybe after learning about them and safe handling if needed)

 

[Aqua Man]

Yea I've given a bit of thought into it since I started researching variables more and seeing you're guys test

I'm up for the challenge down the line, of course haha.

He may hit theoretical maximum speed before I can get to it though!

I think he said he wouldn't mess around with oxygen tanks but I would.

Do NOT mess with i2 tank i dont wanna see anyone blow up their house. I have done extensive research in this are and over 24% o2 you can go boom. What we are talking about is over 90% safely. Ill make the thread now as to not clog up this thread.

I wont go through stuff yet but eventually will edit the first post as an information post after

 

[Observer]

Do NOT mess with i2 tank i dont wanna see anyone blow up their house. I have done extensive research in this are and over 24% o2 you can go boom. What we are talking about is over 90% safely. Ill make the thread now as to not clog up this thread.

I wont go through stuff yet but eventually will edit the first post as an information post after

Oh I know it could be a hazard, old people walk around with o2 tanks though (?)

I wouldn't want to Stockton rush the thing, fuck around with compressed o2, haha.

 

[TSD]

It's slow as fuck.

I have had some of the lower branches I removed from under my scrog in a jar of water on my patio table in the shade and they've been living for like 2 weeks and I'm pretty sure I see little root nubs starting... why? For the fuck of it I guess... I don't want any more plants. I've been changing the water every few days but that's it. Testing thier will to live lol.

 

[Observer]

I have had some of the lower branches I removed from under my scrog in a jar of water on my patio table in the shade and they've been living for like 2 weeks and I'm pretty sure I see little root nubs starting... why? For the fuck of it I guess... I don't want any more plants. I've been changing the water every few days but that's it. Testing thier will to live lol.

Ive done it a few times, it would take 2-3+ weeks though

 

[Rootsruler]

A perfect balance between moisture/water content and oxygen content at/on the surface area of the stems where we want to root is what we want to achieve.

Not including proper humidity and temperature levels.

So how do you determine that you've arrived at that threshold?

 

[Observer]

So how do you determine that you've arrived at that threshold?

good ?

perhaps, Start with O2 and WC sensors test and repeat set data points of different variables

moe is working on figuring that at too i think.

this would be best/easier in medium-less.

 

[Observer]

measure o2 saturation around root zone in a aero/ or water medium growth chamber.

add more o2 till you cant/ reach equilibrium/till the roots show toxicity/damage

theres o2 probes, idk about in mediums/ soils though..

 

[Aqua Man]

Oh I know it could be a hazard, old people walk around with o2 tanks though (?)

I wouldn't want to Stockton rush the thing, fuck around with compressed o2, haha.

Here ya go bro… im telling ya o2 is the next co2 lol.

Cannabis and o2 in the rootzone

Place holder for article on o2 in the rootzone

budbuilders.org

 

[Observer]

Here ya go bro… im telling ya o2 is the next co2 lol.

Cannabis and o2 in the rootzone

Place holder for article on o2 in the rootzone

budbuilders.org

Fully agree man

i cleaned the bottom of my solos in the aerototes and opened the bottom up more, roots are starting to grow out the bottom.

if i can keep up with the humidity of the chamber, should get some little better growth.

sweeeet

 

[Bandit420]

IMO cloning is 99% mojo and 1% all the other stuff.

 

[Observer]

poor mans tek.

Hack the o2 of the rootzone and get everything else in proper parameters

They blow up.

That is why aeroponics is/can be so fast besides everything else. ( In what seemed to be the main difference between all the growth mediums is ROOT ZONE - Biggest changes )

Easier for the roots to grow, no restrictions/medium to "fight" through.

Ease of access to ready-to-go ionic nutes/food.

Water usage is more efficient and conservative.

Roots need oxygen

Roots hang freely in oxygen laden environment

(Not to mention all the other growth parameters dialed)

 

[GoodShit97]

I have had some of the lower branches I removed from under my scrog in a jar of water on my patio table in the shade and they've been living for like 2 weeks and I'm pretty sure I see little root nubs starting... why? For the fuck of it I guess... I don't want any more plants. I've been changing the water every few days but that's it. Testing thier will to live lol.

Never had any luck this way, tried rooting prolly damn near 60 snips and all died lol

 

[Observer]

Never had any luck this way, tried rooting prolly damn near 60 snips and all died lol

In cup of water?

What kind of solution?

 

[GoodShit97]

In cup of water?

What kind of solution?

Yeah, in a cup of plain tap water.

Never had a single one root, everyone else i talk to hasnt ever had one fail. Idk man
That is why i decided to buy a cloning tray and dome.

 

[TSD]

Never had any luck this way, tried rooting prolly damn near 60 snips and all died lol

I don't even have a plan for it if it does root.. see if a friend wants it or chuck it I guess... too late in the outdoor season for it to do much. I just wanted to see if it would live lol. I've propagated many houseplants this way.

 

[GoodShit97]

I don't even have a plan for it if it does root.. see if a friend wants it or chuck it I guess... too late in the outdoor season for it to do much. I just wanted to see if it would live lol. I've propagated many houseplants this way.

Ive just never had luck that way
Seems too easy to mess up but i managed to mess it up lol

 

[moe.red]

In terms of what I have tested -

O2 in Fog both cloner and full plant sites.

55%, 65%, 90%. As you go up in %, the volume of O2 delivered goes down. So in a small space like a cloner, 90%. In the big totes I used in the grow tent on plants in veg, 55% with a higher flow seemed to be better.

In side by sides - the results were undeniable.

The media I settled on is 3.5" net cups with coco and perlite. The roots hang down into the fog and are bathed in nute / bennies / O2 laden water.

I tried RDWC but I was not sealed well enough and the O2 leaked out pretty quick. I know I could make it work, but focused on fog.

 

[Amnesia]

I don't even have a plan for it if it does root.. see if a friend wants it or chuck it I guess... too late in the outdoor season for it to do much. I just wanted to see if it would live lol. I've propagated many houseplants this way.

I've had other plants root in water, but I've never had success with cannabis. It has rooted okay in soil, though.

 

[Shaded]

I don't have much to contribute to the realm of cloning, but I just want to ask....why are we all so concerned with FAST, FASTER, FASTEST?

When did growing marijuana become like running a Formula 1 team? Just sayin'

 

[moe.red]

I don't have much to contribute to the realm of cloning, but I just want to ask....why are we all so concerned with FAST, FASTER, FASTEST?

When did growing marijuana become like running a Formula 1 team? Just sayin'

It's a proof of concept for me.

If I can make the plant respond positively, I know I am doing something right.

I have a sick clone right now I am nursing back. Understanding the relationships of things like water temp, O2, nutes, etc help me to give the best possible environment for success.

Sometimes I slow things down too for timing reasons.

Being successful in adjusting speed to me is nothing more than having a deeper understanding of the plant and what it needs. Helps when things go wrong.

As it pertains to clones, getting duds or ones that are well behind the others (and could have been avoided) can often complicate grow plans, especially for those of us with plant counts to deal with.