Cloning variables

[ninjadip]

ok ok, i am not in "trouble" or anything like that, just curious.
I just started my cloning operation back up, and very curious about the varying time for cuts to root in aeroponics taken at the same time from the same plant, and about the same size. These were all taken at the same time, i think a week ago.

Just curious how some can differ so much. I have all 3 in the middle of the aeroponics so i don't think it's a matter of placement in the cloner relating to the sprayers and all that. This isn't any kind of urgent issue, just curious. Does everyone experience this amount of variance when making clones? I wonder if it is the amount of time i let the cut sit in the rooting gel... I can't really think of another variable. Same light, same nutrients, close enough to be the same aeroponic spray application, same mom, same day cut.

Going to tag @Moe.Red and @Aqua Man my two hydro gurus.

Slowest one:


second slowest:


best: rooted in 2-3 days



cloning environment: (the tall one is not one in the above pics, it was from an earlier cut) don't laugh at my beans popping lol,


Environment under, you can see there are zero issues with aeroponic spray coverage lol. BTW is there a better way to stabilize the sprayer than with how i have it weighted?

 

[Aqua Man]

Yea I've given a bit of thought into it since I started researching variables more and seeing you're guys test

I'm up for the challenge down the line, of course haha.

He may hit theoretical maximum speed before I can get to it though!

I think he said he wouldn't mess around with oxygen tanks but I would.

Do NOT mess with i2 tank i dont wanna see anyone blow up their house. I have done extensive research in this are and over 24% o2 you can go boom. What we are talking about is over 90% safely. Ill make the thread now as to not clog up this thread.

I wont go through stuff yet but eventually will edit the first post as an information post after

 

[Observer]

Do NOT mess with i2 tank i dont wanna see anyone blow up their house. I have done extensive research in this are and over 24% o2 you can go boom. What we are talking about is over 90% safely. Ill make the thread now as to not clog up this thread.

I wont go through stuff yet but eventually will edit the first post as an information post after

Oh I know it could be a hazard, old people walk around with o2 tanks though (?)

I wouldn't want to Stockton rush the thing, fuck around with compressed o2, haha.

 

[TSD]

It's slow as fuck.

I have had some of the lower branches I removed from under my scrog in a jar of water on my patio table in the shade and they've been living for like 2 weeks and I'm pretty sure I see little root nubs starting... why? For the fuck of it I guess... I don't want any more plants. I've been changing the water every few days but that's it. Testing thier will to live lol.

 

[Observer]

I have had some of the lower branches I removed from under my scrog in a jar of water on my patio table in the shade and they've been living for like 2 weeks and I'm pretty sure I see little root nubs starting... why? For the fuck of it I guess... I don't want any more plants. I've been changing the water every few days but that's it. Testing thier will to live lol.

Ive done it a few times, it would take 2-3+ weeks though

 

[Rootsruler]

A perfect balance between moisture/water content and oxygen content at/on the surface area of the stems where we want to root is what we want to achieve.

Not including proper humidity and temperature levels.

So how do you determine that you've arrived at that threshold?

 

[Observer]

So how do you determine that you've arrived at that threshold?

good ?

perhaps, Start with O2 and WC sensors test and repeat set data points of different variables

moe is working on figuring that at too i think.

this would be best/easier in medium-less.

 

[Observer]

measure o2 saturation around root zone in a aero/ or water medium growth chamber.

add more o2 till you cant/ reach equilibrium/till the roots show toxicity/damage

theres o2 probes, idk about in mediums/ soils though..

 

[Aqua Man]

Oh I know it could be a hazard, old people walk around with o2 tanks though (?)

I wouldn't want to Stockton rush the thing, fuck around with compressed o2, haha.

Here ya go bro… im telling ya o2 is the next co2 lol.

Cannabis and o2 in the rootzone

Place holder for article on o2 in the rootzone

budbuilders.org

 

[Observer]

Here ya go bro… im telling ya o2 is the next co2 lol.

Cannabis and o2 in the rootzone

Place holder for article on o2 in the rootzone

budbuilders.org

Fully agree man

i cleaned the bottom of my solos in the aerototes and opened the bottom up more, roots are starting to grow out the bottom.

if i can keep up with the humidity of the chamber, should get some little better growth.

sweeeet

 

[Bandit420]

IMO cloning is 99% mojo and 1% all the other stuff.

 

[Observer]

poor mans tek.

Hack the o2 of the rootzone and get everything else in proper parameters

They blow up.

That is why aeroponics is/can be so fast besides everything else. ( In what seemed to be the main difference between all the growth mediums is ROOT ZONE - Biggest changes )

Easier for the roots to grow, no restrictions/medium to "fight" through.

Ease of access to ready-to-go ionic nutes/food.

Water usage is more efficient and conservative.

Roots need oxygen

Roots hang freely in oxygen laden environment

(Not to mention all the other growth parameters dialed)

 

[GoodShit97]

I have had some of the lower branches I removed from under my scrog in a jar of water on my patio table in the shade and they've been living for like 2 weeks and I'm pretty sure I see little root nubs starting... why? For the fuck of it I guess... I don't want any more plants. I've been changing the water every few days but that's it. Testing thier will to live lol.

Never had any luck this way, tried rooting prolly damn near 60 snips and all died lol

 

[Observer]

Never had any luck this way, tried rooting prolly damn near 60 snips and all died lol

In cup of water?

What kind of solution?

 

[GoodShit97]

In cup of water?

What kind of solution?

Yeah, in a cup of plain tap water.

Never had a single one root, everyone else i talk to hasnt ever had one fail. Idk man
That is why i decided to buy a cloning tray and dome.

 

[TSD]

Never had any luck this way, tried rooting prolly damn near 60 snips and all died lol

I don't even have a plan for it if it does root.. see if a friend wants it or chuck it I guess... too late in the outdoor season for it to do much. I just wanted to see if it would live lol. I've propagated many houseplants this way.

 

[GoodShit97]

I don't even have a plan for it if it does root.. see if a friend wants it or chuck it I guess... too late in the outdoor season for it to do much. I just wanted to see if it would live lol. I've propagated many houseplants this way.

Ive just never had luck that way
Seems too easy to mess up but i managed to mess it up lol

 

[moe.red]

In terms of what I have tested -

O2 in Fog both cloner and full plant sites.

55%, 65%, 90%. As you go up in %, the volume of O2 delivered goes down. So in a small space like a cloner, 90%. In the big totes I used in the grow tent on plants in veg, 55% with a higher flow seemed to be better.

In side by sides - the results were undeniable.

The media I settled on is 3.5" net cups with coco and perlite. The roots hang down into the fog and are bathed in nute / bennies / O2 laden water.

I tried RDWC but I was not sealed well enough and the O2 leaked out pretty quick. I know I could make it work, but focused on fog.

 

[Amnesia]

I don't even have a plan for it if it does root.. see if a friend wants it or chuck it I guess... too late in the outdoor season for it to do much. I just wanted to see if it would live lol. I've propagated many houseplants this way.

I've had other plants root in water, but I've never had success with cannabis. It has rooted okay in soil, though.

 

[Shaded]

I don't have much to contribute to the realm of cloning, but I just want to ask....why are we all so concerned with FAST, FASTER, FASTEST?

When did growing marijuana become like running a Formula 1 team? Just sayin'

 

[moe.red]

I don't have much to contribute to the realm of cloning, but I just want to ask....why are we all so concerned with FAST, FASTER, FASTEST?

When did growing marijuana become like running a Formula 1 team? Just sayin'

It's a proof of concept for me.

If I can make the plant respond positively, I know I am doing something right.

I have a sick clone right now I am nursing back. Understanding the relationships of things like water temp, O2, nutes, etc help me to give the best possible environment for success.

Sometimes I slow things down too for timing reasons.

Being successful in adjusting speed to me is nothing more than having a deeper understanding of the plant and what it needs. Helps when things go wrong.

As it pertains to clones, getting duds or ones that are well behind the others (and could have been avoided) can often complicate grow plans, especially for those of us with plant counts to deal with.

 

[Aqua Man]

Its not just faster it helps the plant be more efficient and grow healthier… faster is a result of the plant being more efficient nothing more. Learning where the bottle necks are in terms of limiting factors is not only fascinating but goes a long way towards learning and understanding the plants and growing the healthiest plants we can.

Slower doesn’t mean bad it just means the plant grows less efficiently and likely to produce less yield. But many things factor into that.

Understating the relationships of all the moving parts and how each effect them is important to success. Like determining the ideal light intensity, nutrient rato and concentration, ideal temp etc.

When we dial a plant into we make it grow more efficiently for its given conditions. The biggest limiting factor we have known is o2 concentration and availability. It works much like elevated co2 n the atmosphere and both effect eachother as well as a ton of other variables.

There is no best way but rather the most efficient for each method. And each gas their benefits and drawbacks. Like organics produce several beneficial metabolites and enzymes.

 

[Shaded]

Does a plant have the energy to focus on root growth as well as vegetative growth? Or is the plant doing one or the other? Does increased root mass have a proportional increase to vegetative growth above the root zone compared to a plant with a smaller root ball, or is there a certain point of "diminishing returns" that the plant reaches where X amount of root mass passed Y point is not providing anything beneficial?

I understand the concept of "bigger roots, bigger fruits" but I guess I'm just trying to see where we draw the line between pushing for root mass?

 

[Aqua Man]

Does a plant have the energy to focus on root growth as well as vegetative growth? Or is the plant doing one or the other? Does increased root mass have a proportional increase to vegetative growth above the root zone compared to a plant with a smaller root ball, or is there a certain point of "diminishing returns" that the plant reaches where X amount of root mass passed Y point is not providing anything beneficial?

I understand the concept of "bigger roots, bigger fruits" but I guess I'm just trying to see where we draw the line between pushing for root mass?

The plant adapts growth based on its needs and growing conditions. Spectrum plays a fairly impactful role in the morphology of the plants as well. Root structure changes based on the type of media and water availability and oxygen availability.

I can say there is not a linear relationship that easily measure because it depends on many factors including the plant …but overall the more growth will be overall so roots AND shoots when it comes to o2

Probably the biggest factor is hormones that are responsible for shifting growth… the plants make these based on their needs and stresses…. Thats how crop steering works but also this can be manipulated by the addition of PGRs.

 

[Amnesia]

Learning where the bottle necks are in terms of limiting factors is not only fascinating but goes a long way towards learning and understanding the plants and growing the healthiest plants we can.

This has become my focus as I learn how to grow. It wasn't my intention when I began. It's just how my learning progressed as I watched my plants grow and wondered about what was happening. I've now completed one year. I know my plants could have grown faster. I'm hoping that learning the causes of slow growth will result in better crops in the future. It nevertheless can be frustrating. It's also about learning to be patient.

 

[Aqua Man]

This has become my focus as I learn how to grow. It wasn't my intention when I began. It's just how my learning progressed as I watched my plants grow and wondered about what was happening. I've now completed one year. I know my plants could have grown faster. I'm hoping that learning the causes of slow growth will result in better crops in the future. It nevertheless can be frustrating. It's also about learning to be patient.

100% if you understand how something works then fixing it is easy… not so much if you don’t. I always encourage people learning not to look for this sign means this kinda stuff because its just more complex than that. Try to understand how th plant works and learn about how they do things and why… thats where the answers are

 

[Amnesia]

I understand the concept of "bigger roots, bigger fruits" but I guess I'm just trying to see where we draw the line between pushing for root mass?

I tend to take a holistic view, in that every part of the plant and the growth factors involved are intertwined. Thus, a healthy plant can make better use of any given growth factor than an unhealthy plant can. That, of course, is up to the point that the factor becomes excessive or toxic.

There's an old Chinese saying that goes something like this: "Understanding the leaves is knowledge. Understanding the roots is wisdom." I had that in my signature at that other forum. I've tried to find the source but haven't had any luck. Whatever, I like it.

 

[moe.red]

Does a plant have the energy to focus on root growth as well as vegetative growth? Or is the plant doing one or the other? Does increased root mass have a proportional increase to vegetative growth above the root zone compared to a plant with a smaller root ball, or is there a certain point of "diminishing returns" that the plant reaches where X amount of root mass passed Y point is not providing anything beneficial?

I understand the concept of "bigger roots, bigger fruits" but I guess I'm just trying to see where we draw the line between pushing for root mass?

Its a fair question.

I am currently using AI to teach the plants to talk so I can ask them.

Seriously tho, I've only got theories. And a little experience.

You know how a tap root on a seedling will grow until it reaches some resistance? I get the same kind of thing with dangling roots in fog. It seems to me the plant will grow roots faster at first until there is some resistance. Then they start to go wide.

When the roots are big and some resistance is reached, that seems to me when the veg growth really takes off. But now it has a huge root ball to service anything that grows above ground.

I'm still learning myself, but I believe the top growth more than catches up and surpasses smaller rooted plants in Veg.

 

[Amnesia]

100% if you understand how something works then fixing it is easy… not so much if you don’t. I always encourage people learning not to look for this sign means this kinda stuff because its just more complex than that. Try to understand how th plant works and learn about how they do things and why… thats where the answers are

I agree. It takes growing a few crops from start to finish to understand the plant. So far, I've only had one harvest. Another is a few weeks from harvest. Yet another is waiting to move to the big tent for flowering.

Every grow so far, I've been eager to start another so I can correct problems. A big issue for me now is doing better in the seedling stage. I'll focus on that next time, among other things.

 

[Amnesia]

You know how a tap root on a seedling will grow until it reaches some resistance? I get the same kind of thing with dangling roots in fog. It seems to me the plant will grow roots faster at first until there is some resistance. Then they start to go wide.

I would imagine that with aeroponics, and maybe hydroponics, root trimming would be possible. Has anyone explored that?

 

[moe.red]

I agree. It takes growing a few crops from start to finish to understand the plant. So far, I've only had one harvest. Another is a few weeks from harvest. Yet another is waiting to move to the big tent for flowering.

Every grow so far, I've been eager to start another so I can correct problems. A big issue for me now is doing better in the seedling stage. I'll focus on that next time, among other things.

I think I was about 10 grows in before I started to feel like I knew what i was doing. Still learning today. Hopefully that never ends.

Seedlings are the fun part to me. Best advice I can give you on seedlings is make your lighting flexible, preferably with some spectrum control. I use spectrum to adjust for things like being leggy rather than PPFD. But I guess that is on the advanced side of the grow spectrum.