Solar Electric Generators, Power Storage, On Grid Hybrid Systems

[MiGrampa]

I'll keep this simple with the hope of generating conversation. I know only a little bit about solar power generation and storage. The purpose of this thread is for me and others to gain knowledge so hopefully someone out there has some experience with these systems and can guide me enough to decide if the high cost of purchasing such a system and having it installed can offer a realistic savings on energy costs and how long it would take for me to see a return on this kind of investment.

I've looked into this online a bit but it seems that I keep running into high pressure sales tactics.

@moe.red for some reason this seems to me like a subject you might know a thing or 2 about.

 

[freezeland]

I'll keep this simple with the hope of generating conversation. I know only a little bit about solar power generation and storage. The purpose of this thread is for me and others to gain knowledge so hopefully someone out there has some experience with these systems and can guide me enough to decide if the high cost of purchasing such a system and having it installed can offer a realistic savings on energy costs and how long it would take for me to see a return on this kind of investment.

I've looked into this online a bit but it seems that I keep running into high pressure sales tactics.

@moe.red for some reason this seems to me like a subject you might know a thing or 2 about.

Most I have seen are portable

 

[MiGrampa]

Most I have seen are portable

I've looked at this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Jackery...-Watts-Solar-Panels-40-1010-USC112Y/327558688

It's not exactly what I would like though. My preference would be at least 10KW storage and although the battery packs are on wheels, its heavy/bulky and not very portable. This more like what I have in mind. I can get 30% tax break through Uncle Sam for investing in renewable energy

Complete Hybrid Solar Kit 10000W 48V 120V/240V output 20.48KWH Lithium Battery 8300 Watt Solar Panel

Discover the ultimate hybrid solar kit with a 10,000W 48V 120V/240V output and a 20.48kWh lithium battery online at SunGoldPowerat. Power up with 8,300W solar panels.

sungoldpower.com

 

[Bandit420]

I've dabbled with solar many times. Even have a mini rig for HID lights to charge something like an exhaust fan.
The best I could come up with is for a couple grand, I could get everything in my grow room on solar except for the lights so there's no real point there.
The mini systems for things like camping and what not are okay for running a power saw for a couple hours per day but that's about it.
For example I have a portable freezer fridge that only pulls 80 watts and is solar ready. But it's not meant to run 24/7 off solar. Only a few hours a day
To run it continuously off solar I'd need around 3-4 deep cycle batteries and a solar panel and charge controller capable of 100 watts. I'd be looking at around $600-$1000 just to run 80 watts off grid.
The big thing is storage for me. I'd be looking at $1000s in battery banks. That's the major thing from keeping me from committing to it. And TBH, a fossil fuel powered generator would probably be more cost effective.

Solar is big in my city and I have neighbors with systems and even they have to be misers about just basic stuff like AC and amenities like a deep freezer or xtra fridge etc. They got rebates on their system and there's some with regret because the life span on panels is not great.
To go all in and have a system that covers my home and actually produces so much power the city has to pay me for the electricity I produce would be right around $100K. But for around 50-75K I could probably build a system to power my home and grow room.

 

[Observer]

I'll keep this simple with the hope of generating conversation. I know only a little bit about solar power generation and storage. The purpose of this thread is for me and others to gain knowledge so hopefully someone out there has some experience with these systems and can guide me enough to decide if the high cost of purchasing such a system and having it installed can offer a realistic savings on energy costs and how long it would take for me to see a return on this kind of investment.

I've looked into this online a bit but it seems that I keep running into high pressure sales tactics.

@moe.red for some reason this seems to me like a subject you might know a thing or 2 about.

 

[MiGrampa]

I've dabbled with solar many times. Even have a mini rig for HID lights to charge something like an exhaust fan.
The best I could come up with is for a couple grand, I could get everything in my grow room on solar except for the lights so there's no real point there.
The mini systems for things like camping and what not are okay for running a power saw for a couple hours per day but that's about it.
For example I have a portable freezer fridge that only pulls 80 watts and is solar ready. But it's not meant to run 24/7 off solar. Only a few hours a day
To run it continuously off solar I'd need around 3-4 deep cycle batteries and a solar panel and charge controller capable of 100 watts. I'd be looking at around $600-$1000 just to run 80 watts off grid.
The big thing is storage for me. I'd be looking at $1000s in battery banks. That's the major thing from keeping me from committing to it. And TBH, a fossil fuel powered generator would probably be more cost effective.

Solar is big in my city and I have neighbors with systems and even they have to be misers about just basic stuff like AC and amenities like a deep freezer or xtra fridge etc. They got rebates on their system and there's some with regret because the life span on panels is not great.
To go all in and have a system that covers my home and actually produces so much power the city has to pay me for the electricity I produce would be right around $100K. But for around 50-75K I could probably build a system to power my home and grow room.

Yes, for the system I linked in my post above, its still almost 11k before anything else is done. I can do some of the work myself such as mounting solar panels, running cables to the point of entry, etc ... but I would still have to hire an electrician to upgrade my service panel and make all electrical connections. My guess is it would be a minimum of 20K and maybe more realistically 25k and I'm not entirely sure it would supply all my power needs. Those are some of the unknowns for me. I also live in Michigan where we tend to have more clouds than sun compared to other areas of the country.

 

[Bandit420]

Yes, for the system I linked in my post above, its still almost 11k before anything else is done. I can do some of the work myself such as mounting solar panels, running cables to the point of entry, etc ... but I would still have to hire an electrician to upgrade my service panel and make all electrical connections. My guess is it would be a minimum of 20K and maybe more realistically 25k and I'm not entirely sure it would supply all my power needs. Those are some of the unknowns for me. I also live in Michigan where we tend to have more clouds than sun compared to other areas of the country.

Yeah I'm in Texas so cooling would be the major power draw on my home. My neighbors with solar are stingy about it and keep their homes in the mid to high 80s as a result because the solar cannot produce enough before it's pulling power from the grid.
IDK if I'd want the panels up on the roof either. Seems like that's a hassle for them.
Wind power generators have me interested though too and there's some small wind turbines for residential use. Everything is the same as solar but instead of solar panels you'd have a wind turbine

 

[Stoneyluv]

i've been wanting to do a wind/solar combo but without the inverter. just raw 12/24vdc and make a special power line throughout my house. just to power everything 12 and 24vdc.. i have a lot! enough that it would significantly save me $$$... if i had a water stream on my property i would already be doing it.

 

[MiGrampa]

Yeah I'm in Texas so cooling would be the major power draw on my home. My neighbors with solar are stingy about it and keep their homes in the mid to high 80s as a result because the solar cannot produce enough before it's pulling power from the grid.
IDK if I'd want the panels up on the roof either. Seems like that's a hassle for them.
Wind power generators have me interested though too and there's some small wind turbines for residential use. Everything is the same as solar but instead of solar panels you'd have a wind turbine

Wind turbines can be purchased and added to that system. They are even available in one of the other kits that company offers. We do have our fair share of windy days.

I would be more likely to go with ground mounting and/or mounting them on the roof of my garage. I wouldn't want them on the roof of my house due to the potential issues it can cause. So yeah, I'm with you there ...

We set our thermostat to 78F on the central air. Our electricity cost has gone up 25% in just a few years. I also don't grow indoors during the summer due to the extra cost of running the AC.

 

[Rootsruler]

I have a little knowledge of these types of systems. My opinion is that if you want to be able to generate enough electricity to bring your bill to zero you're going to have to install a lot of panels. I'm also of the opinion that battery storage is not quite up to snuff if, again, you're looking to eliminate your bill by producing electricity or be able to power up the whole house in case of an extended outage.

There are a lot of factors that play into if it is worth it or not. A lot has to do with the area you are in and the way the power company handles your generation. Some areas it's not worth it for the little the company pays. Most of the privately held companies aren't very friendly to roof top generation so, again, it depends on how your power company deals with this type of generation.

IMO, If everything lines up with the numbers then I would seriously consider it. Keep in mind that battery storage is still not all that great and is expensive. There have been lots of breakthroughs as far as panel improvements but battery storage is where it would be a deal breaker for me. When the numbers make sense for me I will definitely pull the trigger but for right now I want to see battery storage get better and cheaper.

I did a remodel on a house that was out in the sticks. It had solar and battery storage. One of the inverters took a dump and took most of the batteries with it. The battery replacement cost alone was more than the original price for the entire setup.

Plan on 20k+ for any decent sized system. Also know that you can't take it with you if you move and you still have to pay for the system even though you don't live there anymore.

I haven't messed with solar in a while so things may have improved enough to where it makes it viable. Wind is great if you live in a windy area.

 

[freezeland]

I've looked at this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Jackery...-Watts-Solar-Panels-40-1010-USC112Y/327558688

It's not exactly what I would like though. My preference would be at least 10KW storage and although the battery packs are on wheels, its heavy/bulky and not very portable. This more like what I have in mind. I can get 30% tax break through Uncle Sam for investing in renewable energy

Complete Hybrid Solar Kit 10000W 48V 120V/240V output 20.48KWH Lithium Battery 8300 Watt Solar Panel

Discover the ultimate hybrid solar kit with a 10,000W 48V 120V/240V output and a 20.48kWh lithium battery online at SunGoldPowerat. Power up with 8,300W solar panels.

sungoldpower.com

I’d go with a propane generac before spending that kind of cash on solar.

 

[MiGrampa]

I’d go with a propane generac before spending that kind of cash on solar.

I've already got a fairly large gasoline generator which has been plenty enough to keep the essentials running during a power outage. With a jet change, it can run on liquid propane or even natural gas ...

I've been looking at the solar for a while now and to me, it seems like the prices are inflated due to newer technology. It's kind of like when VCRs or microwave ovens first came out, they were mega expensive. Over time, the price of both dropped significantly. Now a days, you can get a really nice microwave at a reasonable price. (The VCR went the way of the dinosaurs.) At some point the price will drop on solar electric systems. Otherwise, they will always be a niche system that only a few actually have.

 

[Neueregel]

I'll keep this simple with the hope of generating conversation. I know only a little bit about solar power generation and storage. The purpose of this thread is for me and others to gain knowledge so hopefully someone out there has some experience with these systems and can guide me enough to decide if the high cost of purchasing such a system and having it installed can offer a realistic savings on energy costs and how long it would take for me to see a return on this kind of investment.

I've looked into this online a bit but it seems that I keep running into high pressure sales tactics.

@moe.red for some reason this seems to me like a subject you might know a thing or 2 about.

i posted on this topic but didn't get many bites. I found the same thing when try to research, my phone was literally blowing up with calls. all i found is like others have posted. it's not worth it right now.

 

[MiGrampa]

i posted on this topic but didn't get many bites. I found the same thing when try to research, my phone was literally blowing up with calls. all i found is like others have posted. it's not worth it right now.

I already get enough calls from people or AI dialers that I won't answer, I don't need anymore. If they want my name, address and phone number to share information ... I just move on. In the past, when I've done that, I have only ended up with hard sells and salesmen blowing up my phone.

Hopefully the day is coming when investing in solar means I can fire my electric company.

 

[Neueregel]

I have a little knowledge of these types of systems. My opinion is that if you want to be able to generate enough electricity to bring your bill to zero you're going to have to install a lot of panels. I'm also of the opinion that battery storage is not quite up to snuff if, again, you're looking to eliminate your bill by producing electricity or be able to power up the whole house in case of an extended outage.

There are a lot of factors that play into if it is worth it or not. A lot has to do with the area you are in and the way the power company handles your generation. Some areas it's not worth it for the little the company pays. Most of the privately held companies aren't very friendly to roof top generation so, again, it depends on how your power company deals with this type of generation.

IMO, If everything lines up with the numbers then I would seriously consider it. Keep in mind that battery storage is still not all that great and is expensive. There have been lots of breakthroughs as far as panel improvements but battery storage is where it would be a deal breaker for me. When the numbers make sense for me I will definitely pull the trigger but for right now I want to see battery storage get better and cheaper.

I did a remodel on a house that was out in the sticks. It had solar and battery storage. One of the inverters took a dump and took most of the batteries with it. The battery replacement cost alone was more than the original price for the entire setup.

Plan on 20k+ for any decent sized system. Also know that you can't take it with you if you move and you still have to pay for the system even though you don't live there anymore.

I haven't messed with solar in a while so things may have improved enough to where it makes it viable. Wind is great if you live in a windy area.

I didn't know about this. is this just where you live or entire USA?

 

[Stoneyluv]

I've already got a fairly large gasoline generator which has been plenty enough to keep the essentials running during a power outage. With a jet change, it can run on liquid propane or even natural gas ...

i know you wern't saying you were gonna do this but when someone does switch to propane/NG the generator loses a few hundred watts and it not as powerful start up power as with gasoline. and IME it was less efficient and cost more in the long run. this also depends on how you get your fuel, if it's piped right to your house is one thing, if you have to exchange bottles or get delivery it gets less attractive. still gotta burn gasoline to get propane if you need bottles.

like a lot of you have been saying, the problem with clean energy is the batteries and storage. and considering not much of the battery gets recycled i don't find it all that much of a "clean" energy once the dust settles. we need to fid some new space rock or something that just makes batteries better and cheaper.

i just don't feel it's worth it just yet. i have a friend that has a lot of solar and yeah his $9 a month bills are nice for some of the time. but the other troubles that come with it are not worth it in his opinion and he has talked me out of doing it multiple times. just most recently he has to have some roof work done.. can't just fix it with the panels in place. can be very expensive once down the rabbit hole.

 

[Bandit420]

i posted on this topic but didn't get many bites. I found the same thing when try to research, my phone was literally blowing up with calls. all i found is like others have posted. it's not worth it right now.

The high pressure sign up right now sales tactics work against the solar industry IMO. That was the hit that turned me off and consider DIY only. Those people make time share sellers seem like placid little girls selling Girl Scout Cookies outside a CVS.
There's also shenanigans at play. Never accept a tablet being handed to you by a salesman. They have a tactic to where you simply touching an ipad screen is signing a contract and they bilk lots of money, especially the elderly by doing that. It's almost like you need a lawyer with you signing up for solar quotes.
One of our neighbors with solar wasn't even able to shop around. He got a quote and was locked in and pretty much had to accept it. And he's the one with panels only 10 years old working about half as good as when they were new and is looking to replace them but still finding the sellers are shady and deceitful.

 

[Stoneyluv]

like placid little girls selling Girl Scout Cookies outside a CVS.

man those girls are rough around here,, they'll shiv ya if you don't buy a box!!!! those CVS girls ain't like the nice post office ones!!!

 

[moe.red]

I have some dated experience. I was off grid on my farm before I sold it.
solar, wind, forklift batteries, and a diesel generator I ran on biodiesel I made from waste veggie oil. I used Xantrex 6048 inverters with grid tie and it was all seamless, including starting the generator automatically.

Problem is this was back in the 2010s, so much has changed. I doubt those inverters are even sold any more. I used a pair of forklift batteries I got from Giant Batteries they were lead acid and about 1000 pounds each, but it was on a farm so it made sense for me as the lowest cost highest capacity at the time.

My understanding is that the cost of solar has gone negative.

quick google search

Too Much Sun? Heavy Focus on Solar Might Create Volatile US Electricity Markets

Greater US emphasis on solar energy might lead to electricity market volatility, negative wholesale energy prices, and continued reliance on nonrenewables.

www.conference-board.org

could not find the article I read recently or I would link it.

Basically, if you have the ability to install solar now is better than ever to do it, except if you are trying to sell back to the grid, that future is uncertain. For personal use, i would absolutely do it if I could. MY HOA and orientation of my house prevents me from doing it at home well.

If you have specific questions, ask away. I'm out of town this week, so might be slow to respond but I get a kick out of designing systems like this. Especially with your money

 

[Neueregel]

I have some dated experience. I was off grid on my farm before I sold it.
solar, wind, forklift batteries, and a diesel generator I ran on biodiesel I made from waste veggie oil. I used Xantrex 6048 inverters with grid tie and it was all seamless, including starting the generator automatically.

Problem is this was back in the 2010s, so much has changed. I doubt those inverters are even sold any more. I used a pair of forklift batteries I got from Giant Batteries they were lead acid and about 1000 pounds each, but it was on a farm so it made sense for me as the lowest cost highest capacity at the time.

My understanding is that the cost of solar has gone negative.

quick google search

Too Much Sun? Heavy Focus on Solar Might Create Volatile US Electricity Markets

Greater US emphasis on solar energy might lead to electricity market volatility, negative wholesale energy prices, and continued reliance on nonrenewables.

www.conference-board.org

could not find the article I read recently or I would link it.

Basically, if you have the ability to install solar now is better than ever to do it, except if you are trying to sell back to the grid, that future is uncertain. For personal use, i would absolutely do it if I could. MY HOA and orientation of my house prevents me from doing it at home well.

If you have specific questions, ask away. I'm out of town this week, so might be slow to respond but I get a kick out of designing systems like this. Especially with your money

I am curious to know more about this, but like someone stated if you move you still have to pay for the system or something like that.

 

[Neueregel]

I have a little knowledge of these types of systems. My opinion is that if you want to be able to generate enough electricity to bring your bill to zero you're going to have to install a lot of panels. I'm also of the opinion that battery storage is not quite up to snuff if, again, you're looking to eliminate your bill by producing electricity or be able to power up the whole house in case of an extended outage.

There are a lot of factors that play into if it is worth it or not. A lot has to do with the area you are in and the way the power company handles your generation. Some areas it's not worth it for the little the company pays. Most of the privately held companies aren't very friendly to roof top generation so, again, it depends on how your power company deals with this type of generation.

IMO, If everything lines up with the numbers then I would seriously consider it. Keep in mind that battery storage is still not all that great and is expensive. There have been lots of breakthroughs as far as panel improvements but battery storage is where it would be a deal breaker for me. When the numbers make sense for me I will definitely pull the trigger but for right now I want to see battery storage get better and cheaper.

I did a remodel on a house that was out in the sticks. It had solar and battery storage. One of the inverters took a dump and took most of the batteries with it. The battery replacement cost alone was more than the original price for the entire setup.

Plan on 20k+ for any decent sized system. Also know that you can't take it with you if you move and you still have to pay for the system even though you don't live there anymore.

I haven't messed with solar in a while so things may have improved enough to where it makes it viable. Wind is great if you live in a windy area.

wtf is your deal. fucking idiot

 

[Rootsruler]

wtf is your deal. fucking idiot

Seriously. Did you forget to take your meds?

 

[Neueregel]

Seriously. Did you forget to take your meds?

seriously, fuck off.

 

[Neueregel]

Seriously. Did you forget to take your meds?

no wonder people are leaving here with dickheads like you.

 

[Zen_seeker]

wtf is your deal. fucking idiot

What’s up? Didn’t see a reason for the comment?

 

[TomH]

What did I miss?
I didn’t see any negative replies here

 

[Neueregel]

What’s up? Didn’t see a reason for the comment?

I have asked this asshole a bunch of questions since the last site and he never responds, so fuck him.

 

[GoodShit97]

Lets all play nice now

 

[Neueregel]

it's all good. i know there are assholes in the world like rootsmoocher.

 

[GoodShit97]

Idk what the deal is but I don't like it.
So again.
Play nice.