⚡Electrical Help Thread⚡

[tobh]

Alright, starting this up instead of hijacking other threads. Figure there has been some disparate conversation about various electrical topics, and instead of losing that information to other threads it could be helpful to have a single location for posts to be migrated to.

Post any electrical-related questions or what-have-yous and maybe some of the resident sparkies will be willing to give feedback/best practices/how-to's.

 

[tobh]

Alright, @GrumpAzz and @ZombieRider . Per my question in the other thread.. .how does one locate where the wires actually run? I've got this situation.

Panels here with wires running up into an exterior wall

Then this hole with visible wires that are running in the wall I plan on using to run my CAT6 up to the attic through

Here's where I plan on punching the CAT6 bundle into the wall, where the bulk will go vertical, then the basement lines will be ran horizontally if I can figure out an optimum route.

And... the baby little rack waiting for punchdowns to be done and a connection to the modem to be made. I have to re-route a telephony cable from nearly directly above the electrical panels to inside the utility room so I can have the modem in here too, which will require some careful routing to avoid crosstalk from the electrical wires to the telephony line.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Alright, @GrumpAzz and @ZombieRider . Per my question in the other thread.. .how does one locate where the wires actually run? I've got this situation.

Panels here with wires running up into an exterior wall
View attachment 17076
Then this hole with visible wires that are running in the wall I plan on using to run my CAT6 up to the attic through
View attachment 17075
Here's where I plan on punching the CAT6 bundle into the wall, where the bulk will go vertical, then the basement lines will be ran horizontally if I can figure out an optimum route.
View attachment 17072
And... the baby little rack waiting for punchdowns to be done and a connection to the modem to be made. I have to re-route a telephony cable from nearly directly above the electrical panels to inside the utility room so I can have the modem in here too, which will require some careful routing to avoid crosstalk from the electrical wires to the telephony line.
View attachment 17073

That's the unfortunate thing.. you don't. However, 9 times out of 10, your electrical will be stapled to the stud above an outlet or switch. Rack-a-tiers maks an excellent studfinder. It's just a strong magnet encased in silcon. It snags all the nails or screws holding up the drywall.

There's really no other way, aside from expensive tracers, to know where your wires are running without physically tracing them out. If you cut the hole for your device at least 2" from the stud, you should miss all your electrical. Just cut nice and easy and try to feel for other shit in the wall.

I hope you have a decent set of fish-rods

 

[WeedRider]

I have to re-route a telephony cable from nearly directly above the electrical panels to inside the utility room so I can have the modem in here too, which will require some careful routing to avoid crosstalk from the electrical wires to the telephony line.

Maybe not possible but I like to put the modem as close to the incoming lines as possible then run Ethernet to wherever. Twisted pairs for the win.

 

[tobh]

Maybe not possible but I like to put the modem as close to the incoming lines as possible then run Ethernet to wherever. Twisted pairs for the win.

By re-routing the telephony line, I will actually be shortening the run from the telco box by about 5', and can make a patch cable to length so the modem will live in the same room as the rest of the network gear.

some day i'll foot the bill to get real high speed in my area (Comcast quoted $12k minimum to get a trunk ran), but for now I'm stuck with Centurylink DSL, which really blows.

 

[WeedRider]

Starlink? Buddy had it put in and is pretty happy. I think the latency isn't great though and it's not in all areas.

 

[tobh]

Starlink? Buddy had it put in and is pretty happy. I think the latency isn't great though and it's not in all areas.

They have a six month waitlist and with the latency, it just won't work for me. I run servers out of my house that are (er, were until I moved) accessible on the public internet. Given they serve media and other streams requiring low latency, I gotta have something ground-based. Had a gigabit connection with dedicated IP at my old place. This new place's connection feels like I stepped back into the stone age.

 

[GoodShit97]

Hmmm. Fishing wires is one of the things i hated about working with my father....
Hes an electrician of almoat 40 hears, so i was fortunate enough to work with him growing up and i realized real quick that electrical is not something i wanna do for a career
Crawlspaces, attics, 130 year old houses, fixing other peoples fire hazards.
Im good, Ill steer clear of all that lol.

 

[tobh]

Hmmm. Fishing wires is one of the things i hated about working with my father....
Hes an electrician of almoat 40 hears, so i was fortunate enough to work with him growing up and i realized real quick that electrical is not something i wanna do for a career
Crawlspaces, attics, 130 year old houses, fixing other peoples fire hazards.
Im good, Ill steer clear of all that lol.

yeah, i've done simple work -- mostly for myself -- but this current effort (no pun intended) I'm on is a whole other thing . I've wired up ballasts, squirrel cages, switches, ceiling fans, etc but never fished wire or done anything beyond simple circuit work in a building. automotive, yeah I've done a shit ton of. sure that can be a PITA but looking at this project I'm on now I'm like fuck. give me a cross short buried in some quarter panel over trying to play connect the dots with wall cavities in my house lol

tbh, i've even debated just cutting entire ceiling-to-floor panels out just so I can see and easily do everything from the basement to the attic. I can sling mud with the best of em, drywall don't scare me. what scares me is drilling through a wire or pipe or running the CAT6 next to electrical. At $150-$300 per run for a pro to come out and do it, I'll figure this out lol

 

[GrumpAzz]

yeah, i've done simple work -- mostly for myself -- but this current effort (no pun intended) I'm on is a whole other thing . I've wired up ballasts, squirrel cages, switches, ceiling fans, etc but never fished wire or done anything beyond simple circuit work in a building. automotive, yeah I've done a shit ton of. sure that can be a PITA but looking at this project I'm on now I'm like fuck. give me a cross short buried in some quarter panel over trying to play connect the dots with wall cavities in my house lol

tbh, i've even debated just cutting entire ceiling-to-floor panels out just so I can see and easily do everything from the basement to the attic. I can sling mud with the best of em, drywall don't scare me. what scares me is drilling through a wire or pipe or running the CAT6 next to electrical. At $150-$300 per run for a pro to come out and do it, I'll figure this out lol

When it comes to fishing wires, the best advice I can give is "close your eyes to see what you're doing"

 

[GoodShit97]

give me a cross short buried in some quarter panel over trying to play connect the dots with wall cavities in my house lol

I couldn't agree with this more, ill chase wires all day in a vehicle.
I rewired most of my trailer when i moved in, especially my bedroom where my grow is. I put everything on its own circuit.

tbh, i've even debated just cutting entire ceiling-to-floor panels out just so I can see and easily do everything from the basement to the attic.

This is how i would do it cause id rather fix the wall than anything else.

At $150-$300 per run for a pro to come out and do it, I'll figure this out lol

All i know if my dad charges 125-175 an hour depending who it is, so 150-300 a run honestly sounds pretty normal to me lol.
Im lucky that i have my dad to call when i fuck shit up lol.


He wired a lot of the houses that were designed/advertised by Connor Mill Built Homes out of Vermont, pretty good for a highschool dropout!

 

[tobh]

When it comes to fishing wires, the best advice I can give is "close your eyes to see what you're doing"

I've watched some youtube videos of pros doing exactly what I need to do, and all I can think is -- this is why they charge per hour what they do. Looks like a total PITA, it's never easy, always a fuckin hassle.

A close friend of mine is a master electrician down in NM, does a lot of federal work, and the stories he's told me of problems doing new construction are crazy. Granted the feds have way higher standards than residential, but still. If he's bitch about pulling wire through someone else's fucked up bends, then what am I gonna be doing trying to take a bundle of a dozen wires from horizontal to vertical before fanning out across a flat plane? Promise it's gonna be more than bitching lol probably gonna be breaking shit.

pretty good for a highschool dropout!

hey, i resemble that comment! voted the most likely to end up in prison by my high school peers, now I make more than 99% of them without destroying my body doing it haha

 

[GoodShit97]

I've watched some youtube videos of pros doing exactly what I need to do, and all I can think is -- this is why they charge per hour what they do. Looks like a total PITA, it's never easy, always a fuckin hassle.

A close friend of mine is a master electrician down in NM, does a lot of federal work, and the stories he's told me of problems doing new construction are crazy. Granted the feds have way higher standards than residential, but still. If he's bitch about pulling wire through someone else's fucked up bends, then what am I gonna be doing trying to take a bundle of a dozen wires from horizontal to vertical before fanning out across a flat plane? Promise it's gonna be more than bitching lol probably gonna be breaking shit.

My dad used to tell me on every single jobsite "if it were easy, everyone would wanna do it" ive honestly never felt that statement more true about anything but electrical lol. Shit is just ridiculous through and through.

hey, i resemble that comment! voted the most likely to end up in prison by my high school peers, now I make more than 99% of them without destroying my body doing it haha

Haha didnt mean anything by it, its just funny to me that everyone says high school drop outs never go anywhere but most of the people i know that are wicked successful, dropped out between 9th and 11th grade lol.

 

[smoke]

@tobh i would give one of these to trace your wire.

Turn everything off except the circuit your tracing.

 

[tobh]

@tobh i would give one of these to trace your wire.

Turn everything off except the circuit your tracing.

ah perfect! that's what I was after.

TL;DR: neighbor confirmed my suspicions of the house. The previous owners were running a massive illegal op here. Half the electrical seen in the cutout I posted is likely related to their op. So, I really would like to know where tf all the wires they ran are so that I don't hit em and get thrown against the opposite wall or have an unintentional restart of the heart.

 

[smoke]

ah perfect! that's what I was after.

TL;DR: neighbor confirmed my suspicions of the house. The previous owners were running a massive illegal op here. Half the electrical seen in the cutout I posted is likely related to their op. So, I really would like to know where tf all the wires they ran are so that I don't hit em and get thrown against the opposite wall or have an unintentional restart of the heart.

Real handy tool for the toolbox, has a thumb dial for sensitivity and it is

Edit: Might tag @GrumpAzz , as a electrician he may have something to add

 

[GrumpAzz]

Real handy tool for the toolbox, has a thumb dial for sensitivity and it is

Edit: Might tag @GrumpAzz , as a electrician he may have something to add

Those dumby sticks won't help you determine where that wire is in the wall, though. Maybe yours does, but mine needs to be in pretty close proximity to what it's testing. We call them dumby sticks cuz you'd have to be a dumby to trust your life with one. Don't get me wrong, mine's a daily carry, but they aren't very forgiving when the batteries get low or if they've seen one too many falls.

 

[GrumpAzz]

ah perfect! that's what I was after.

TL;DR: neighbor confirmed my suspicions of the house. The previous owners were running a massive illegal op here. Half the electrical seen in the cutout I posted is likely related to their op. So, I really would like to know where tf all the wires they ran are so that I don't hit em and get thrown against the opposite wall or have an unintentional restart of the heart.

Yeah, like I mentioned... just cut easy. The tracer smoke posted will at least tell you whether or not those wires are still live. Best to test it with a multimeter, but if you can't find either end, that tick tracer should give you a pretty good idea. You could also just cut them with an old shitty pair of pliers and if you don't get any sparks... you're good to go

 

[tobh]

Yeah, like I mentioned... just cut easy. The tracer smoke posted will at least tell you whether or not those wires are still live. Best to test it with a multimeter, but if you can't find either end, that tick tracer should give you a pretty good idea. You could also just cut them with an old shitty pair of pliers and if you don't get any sparks... you're good to go

my ol lady would kick my ass if i cut power to anything she's using mid-stroke hahah.

long term house project is to fully re-wire it anyways. i need to move outlets and switches to sensible places, rip out fabric wire that was left from previous renos, etc. for now i just want my goddamn network active again. hate being down to a single wifi source and no hardlines, no security, etc. i'm a fucking infosec professional and my own house is sitting here like a fucked up tijuana whore right now.

 

[Zen_seeker]

my ol lady would kick my ass if i cut power to anything she's using mid-stroke hahah.

long term house project is to fully re-wire it anyways. i need to move outlets and switches to sensible places, rip out fabric wire that was left from previous renos, etc. for now i just want my goddamn network active again. hate being down to a single wifi source and no hardlines, no security, etc. i'm a fucking infosec professional and my own house is sitting here like a fucked up tijuana whore right now.

Got hit by lightning again a few years back. Hopped from power to Bell line to network because I had all wired in nice neat boxes like we had at work. Binx box and punch in the closet and two servers with cat5 to each floor. WiFi and movie server streaming for fam.

I’m down to an iPhone and an old asus gaming laptop. Just can’t give a crap enough to fix shit this time round. Office is a tomb.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Lightning was such a nightmare when I was doing low voltage work in Florida. These bigger "houses" we did would have everything automated with touch screens controlling all sub-systems, so every damn thing was connected by a wire one way or another. Plus a direct strike nearby will often cause enough static electricity to fry sensitive shit even if its surge protected. Ugh bad memories.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Yeah, like I mentioned... just cut easy. The tracer smoke posted will at least tell you whether or not those wires are still live. Best to test it with a multimeter, but if you can't find either end, that tick tracer should give you a pretty good idea. You could also just cut them with an old shitty pair of pliers and if you don't get any sparks... you're good to go

I may or may not have dikes w holes burned in them lol. Sometimes that breaker panel is one too many trips downstairs for the day lol.

 

[tobh]

Got hit by lightning again a few years back. Hopped from power to Bell line to network because I had all wired in nice neat boxes like we had at work. Binx box and punch in the closet and two servers with cat5 to each floor. WiFi and movie server streaming for fam.

I’m down to an iPhone and an old asus gaming laptop. Just can’t give a crap enough to fix shit this time round. Office is a tomb.

i didn't even consider lightning. the house is surrounded by super tall trees, so it shouldn't be a huge concern but i can see it traveling through the roots and potentially getting into a circuit somehow.

makes me think i need to get a sparky out here to run a dedicated ground just for the outlet that the network guts are plugged into lol i'd be devastated if the couple grand worth of business grade network switches and edge router got cooked by mother nature.

 

[Zen_seeker]

i didn't even consider lightning. the house is surrounded by super tall trees, so it shouldn't be a huge concern but i can see it traveling through the roots and potentially getting into a circuit somehow.

makes me think i need to get a sparky out here to run a dedicated ground just for the outlet that the network guts are plugged into lol i'd be devastated if the couple grand worth of business grade network switches and edge router got cooked by mother nature.

In the 30 years here we get strikes about every 5 years. We have 6 silos across the street.

Cable, phone and power lines have all been entry points. Ground strikes and hydro poles. Never would have believed possible in a big city.

 

[tobh]

In the 30 years here we get strikes about every 5 years. We have 6 silos across the street.

Cable, phone and power lines have all been entry points. Ground strikes and hydro poles. Never would have believed possible in a big city.

for real. and there's not a lot you can do residentially to keep that kind of current from finding its way into your circuits.

 

[moe.red]

Hey @tobh I think I am too late to move posts and have it make sense at this point. Sorry I’m so slow.

 

[Zen_seeker]

for real. and there's not a lot you can do residentially to keep that kind of current from finding its way into your circuits.

No. Cable and phone company don’t have suppressors and arcing bypasses anyway. Too many different entry points in an old house.

 

[tobh]

Hey @tobh I think I am too late to move posts and have it make sense at this point. Sorry I’m so slow.

It's all good! if you want to clean up that other thread, that'd be equally fine. I figured a dedicated thread would be better for these kind of questions instead of having that content, while marginally related to gaming, cluttering up that thread.

 

[tobh]

alright sparkies. question time.

i changed plans for how to run the wire slightly due to everywhere electrical switches or receptacles are located. i have one wall that has no electrical anything on it (at least on the outside. I know that you aren't supposed to run CAT6 parallel to electrical, and if you must cross paths with electrical, you want to cross over at as close to a 90 degree angle as possible. However, my new plan of action would require crossing paths with a copper water pipe. Does the same rule apply?

Given the pipe is the main hot water line for the house, I intend on insulating the CAT6 as to reduce the risk of the insulator on the wires melting, but otherwise I think I've got the path upwards figured out. Just want to confirm it's not a national code violation or against best practice to be in the same wall cavity as water pipes with low voltage.

 

[tobh]

Scratch that, figured out a more optimal path that doesn't require crossing water pipes nor electrical. only four holes deep so far good thing i'm good with drywall and texturing haha.

but i do have another question regarding fire blocking.

the penetration I'm making from the utility room to the stairwell is at a similar height to a penetration the home inspector listed as needing fire blocking. Given I don't want to leave an undressed hole in the wall -- it'll bug tf out of me every time I'm in the room -- I figured I could take some sheet rock and box in the penetration prior to running the wire. Would that be good enough or do I need to figure out something more extensive like filling the gap around the penetration with fire blocking spray foam?