BB First annual grow off - soil vs hydro

moe.red

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Here is the post that kicked this off:

contest.jpg

What was a side by side under controlled conditions became a great idea for a forum wide grow-off.

I'm thinking we have enough folks here from both sides - hydro and that other silly grow style - to make this really fun.

@Bandit420 has offered to be the soil guru in his area, I'll try to figure out hydro and help someone along with me if there is any interest.

I'm thinking that we can get identical genetics into everyone's hands, and see who can grow the best weed?

Looking for participants - tag in if you want to grow with us, and what your preferred grow style is.

We can come up with the judging criteria, and who will be doing the judging based on who decides to participate.

Who's with us?
 
Love it!
The age old debate!
My room and I will be available in early July for me to give this my full attention. Between now and then I already have a crop going and there will be June vacation travels so when I get back then I can dive in. I may even run a little hydro myself along side soil just for shits and giggles.:devilish:

There's a que of strains lined up for my next 4 grows and the July grow will be one or a combination of... Oreoz S1 (Cookies N Cream x Secret Weapon)...Critterz (Zkittlez x Animal Cookies) and Frozen Custard (Wedding Pie x Animal Cookies) all by Greenpoint.
I'm fairly certain these will be hybrids or indica leaners but yeah for the most part I'll be baking cookies. ;)

I see a lot of soil growers who's game is on point so doubt I can be any kind of guru for many of Y'all. However, if you're looking for speed, I know exactly where to find it. And if you wanna see if your soil grow can be as speedy and fruitful as any kind of hydro grow, I can help with that. 🚄

My background over the years has gone from being an outdoor grower to hydro indoors to soil indoors and out, to just soil indoors.
When I did hydro, I ran just about every type of system other than aero unless you count aerocloning which I still do when I need clones.
IMO there's no better way to clone than with aeroponics but that's another debate. I like to think my hydro experience has played a huge roll in how I run my soil grows and how today I don't really see one having a huge advantage over the other and really just comes down to preference.

Ok so there's two sides to soil growing and one side isn't really soil growing at all. What we're really doing more often than not is soilless hydroponics.
True soil growing IMO is growing plants in the Earth, outside. You may dig a hole and fill it with enriched goodies but your plant is in the Earth and the earthen soil and whatever is in it will play a role in the grow.
Indoors with a potting mix is far closer to hydroponics using a medium like coco than growing in the Earth. The mixes out today, custom or bagged, are rich in nutrients, light, and fast draining. By using ingredients like perlite we can ensure they're also loaded with oxygen. And that fast draining oxygenated soil is where the lines between hydro and soil become blurred.

When we ask what's faster or better, hydro or soil, depends on what answer we want. 🎰
Faster? I doubt any hydro grower will ever tell you that just because they grow in hydro they can take an 8 week strain and have it ready in 6 or 7 weeks.
So then how or why can it be faster?:unsure:
The answer is in the start and in veg. Hydroponics starts fast because of abundant amounts of oxygen to the roots.
If you want to be fast in soil, it doesn't start in peat pods, rapid rooters, or solo cups. It starts with a vertical bare root germination and an aerating container like an airpot. And a little mycorrhizae doesn't hurt either.
When we stick a popped seed in something like a solo cup, that move alone adds a week or longer to the grow. We'll find the speed and on the other side, if a hydro grower fumbles with pH or nutes, be prepared to see your soil grow go faster than hydro :cool:

So for anybody wanting to join Team Dirty Fingers, rather than have matching jerseys and uniforms, we'll be in matching airpots. I have plenty to share or BYO but if you're looking for hydro speed in soil, an airpot is like a 4bbl carb for your soil.
Combined with vertical germination (which I can show how to do with a DVD case or 3D printed kit), good soil, good clean water, we should be able to start a seed and be flipping it to flower at around 20-25 days. A clone, 10 days max veg time after rooting and planting. If working with an 8 week cut, we can go from dry seed to harvest in as little as 90 days and no more than 110. Clones will go much faster at around 70-75 days from root to harvest.

To answer the question of which is better is where everything else comes into play to decide. Lights, environment, nutrients, water, soil quality and so on plays just as much factor in that decision as any. It's well beyond just the medium to decide that.
But if it's all dialed in and you have the speed to go along with it, it makes the decision of which is better all the more difficult to make.
We also have to define "better". Is it yield or potency? Or is it other factors like cost of operation or easiest to set up, maintain, and ease of post grow clean up? Probably a gumbo of all of the above and that's what we'll try to figure out and have some fun doing it!✌️
 
Yield and cost of production will be the easiest to determine with a number that is accessible to all to figure. Because of the pheno factor clones would be best imo.

Im in and my room is empty and ready to go anytime
 
I will be ready to go when my current RDWC harvest is complete. I have about a month on that.

I'm still going to do a side by side dirt vs hydro in this tent, and let @CannaGranny be the judge with a blind taste test. Maybe she will take me under her wing on this grow and teach me the ways of soil.

I figure we can come up with some genetics that we can all agree to, and if there is enough time I can grow a mom and pass out tissue culture clones to participants. That way we have identical genetics, but not passing on any bugs or viruses.

So if we can come up with a plan for a mom, I can get to work on that. I think we still have time to make that happen and start around July 1. Maybe make it the 4th of July kickoff?
 
Yield and cost of production will be the easiest to determine with a number that is accessible to all to figure. Because of the pheno factor clones would be best imo.

Im in and my room is empty and ready to go anytime
I wonder if yield should be determined by Gram Per Watt?
I'm pretty locked in with what I want to grow. This Oreoz cut has a chance to be something special and I wanted her in the ground yesterday. Waiting until July sucks and I'm not waiting past that. I'd also rather have the start be done in house just so I don't have to nurse a shipped clone out of shock. It's warm here and shipped clones in 95* heat doesn't go well. Mail service is even worse now with staff shortages so I only get mail 5 random days a week. Maybe 1 in 6 survives last I went down that path and that was with daily mail service.
I don't mind the randomness of multi strain entries at all. Been in a couple grow offs like contests before, not hydro vs soil, just grow offs to win a light or other prize and the mixed bag of entered strains didn't mess up the works or anything. There were even autoflowers entered which some considered cheating to an extent but I didn't mind
 
You may want to run with this one Bandit, and I'll do the side by side with the same genetics I was going to do. For me not having the same DNA is not really what I am going for.

Your sounds more fun tho, and I'll participate with something. But I really want to see first hand the difference in results only changing the medium and nothing else.
 
good luck trying to get the same genetics to me down here at the South Pole.😆.my grows half the time go over the 110 day cut off.but not by much..5 week veg 11 week 🌸 .I’m between 40-50 days from putting my nxt batch in so I don’t think I’ll b able to play 😭..
 
sshz looks like the captain of the soil guys…what’s this other silly style grow moe..lol..I had abit of a chuckle and I reckon the silly style is coco/perlite 😃
 
You may want to run with this one Bandit, and I'll do the side by side with the same genetics I was going to do. For me not having the same DNA is not really what I am going for.

Your sounds more fun tho, and I'll participate with something. But I really want to see first hand the difference in results only changing the medium and nothing else.
We could all work with Greenpoint strains from seed. They only have 3 main parents that cross into everything else so many strains are very similar. And with the reverse auctions some packs can be had for as little as $23/six feminized
 
The silly grow style is soil Max, stupid joke.

Bandit, I'll play along with whatever you come up with. I just also need to do my own thing with clones for it to be meaningful to me. First thing anyone will ask when reading the results of my side by side is "was it the same genetics?" With seeds, you cannot say yes, only close.

But I have room to do both a grow along with seeds and the side by side I want to do with clones. All good. Hell, I might really piss you off and put the seeds in my O2 injected Fogponics rig 😱
 
Here is the post that kicked this off:

View attachment 2062

What was a side by side under controlled conditions became a great idea for a forum wide grow-off.

I'm thinking we have enough folks here from both sides - hydro and that other silly grow style - to make this really fun.

@Bandit420 has offered to be the soil guru in his area, I'll try to figure out hydro and help someone along with me if there is any interest.

I'm thinking that we can get identical genetics into everyone's hands, and see who can grow the best weed?

Looking for participants - tag in if you want to grow with us, and what your preferred grow style is.

We can come up with the judging criteria, and who will be doing the judging based on who decides to participate.

Who's with us?
Hell yeah
 
Man i wish i could get in this, buuuut. 4 plants in my 3x3 still 2 months from harvest, 10 plants in my 4x4 vegging, and just popped 3 seeds in my 2x2 so im jam packed. Plus 3 outside 🤫
Just spread some solos around lol
 
i'll join in if i can get setup before the kick-off date. still two-ish weeks before i can even consider getting set back up but it won't take long to get going once we're moved.
 
i'll join in if i can get setup before the kick-off date. still two-ish weeks before i can even consider getting set back up but it won't take long to get going once we're moved.
Sweet!
More rock wool slabs?
 
I wonder if yield should be determined by Gram Per Watt?
I'm pretty locked in with what I want to grow. This Oreoz cut has a chance to be something special and I wanted her in the ground yesterday. Waiting until July sucks and I'm not waiting past that. I'd also rather have the start be done in house just so I don't have to nurse a shipped clone out of shock. It's warm here and shipped clones in 95* heat doesn't go well. Mail service is even worse now with staff shortages so I only get mail 5 random days a week. Maybe 1 in 6 survives last I went down that path and that was with daily mail service.
I don't mind the randomness of multi strain entries at all. Been in a couple grow offs like contests before, not hydro vs soil, just grow offs to win a light or other prize and the mixed bag of entered strains didn't mess up the works or anything. There were even autoflowers entered which some considered cheating to an extent but I didn't mind
If it is grams per watt than you might want to rethink Oreoz. I had it from TC and it was a really nice plant but the yield was not there. Frosty and pretty but low yield. 6 plants was only 1 unit. Take something like biscotti and it was 3 units for 9 plants.
 
If it is grams per watt than you might want to rethink Oreoz. I had it from TC and it was a really nice plant but the yield was not there. Frosty and pretty but low yield. 6 plants was only 1 unit. Take something like biscotti and it was 3 units for 9 plants.
One of the heaviest producing cultivars I've grown was Light of Jah. If anyone can get there hands on some original Light of Jah you will be amazed at how it stacks flower.
 
GPW isn't really an accurate measure anymore. It's quite rudimentary, tbh, since it doesn't account for time nor light source. plus, when the weighing actually happens matters a lot, too. weighing dry, but pre-cure will likely show a higher yield than after a 1 month cure.

for a case like this, i would say final cure weight by volume of media is likely a better measure given a volume of 1 US gallon is the same, regardless if it's filled with soil or water. this also raises the point of 1 lb to 1 gallon is hypothetically possible, but i digress.
 
GPW isn't really an accurate measure anymore. It's quite rudimentary, tbh, since it doesn't account for time nor light source. plus, when the weighing actually happens matters a lot, too. weighing dry, but pre-cure will likely show a higher yield than after a 1 month cure.

for a case like this, i would say final cure weight by volume of media is likely a better measure given a volume of 1 US gallon is the same, regardless if it's filled with soil or water. this also raises the point of 1 lb to 1 gallon is hypothetically possible, but i digress.
What if we weighed the flowers wet but removed from all stems? I get that it should be dry weight but you bring up a good point about the various factors. At least wet can level the playing field.
 
What if we weighed the flowers wet but removed from all stems? I get that it should be dry weight but you bring up a good point about the various factors. At least wet can level the playing field.
the problem with that is different preferences for trimming. for instance, i hate wet trimming. did it a handful of times and simply hate it. you sure as shit aren't gonna catch me shucking buds off wet branches lol

really, there would need to be consensus either on technique or when the weighing is to happen. there are a shit ton of variables in this already, so i guess setting a kick off date of X, 110 days later evidence provided that plant is alive, then final weight provided Y days after stated harvest date. Maybe something like 45 days after harvest so that it gives people time to correctly dry and start curing their plants.

then everyone can dry, trim, and cure however tf they prefer and it's still a reasonably fair competition with reduced likelihood of fish stories lol
 
the problem with that is different preferences for trimming. for instance, i hate wet trimming. did it a handful of times and simply hate it. you sure as shit aren't gonna catch me shucking buds off wet branches lol

really, there would need to be consensus either on technique or when the weighing is to happen. there are a shit ton of variables in this already, so i guess setting a kick off date of X, 110 days later evidence provided that plant is alive, then final weight provided Y days after stated harvest date. Maybe something like 45 days after harvest so that it gives people time to correctly dry and start curing their plants.

then everyone can dry, trim, and cure however tf they prefer and it's still a reasonably fair competition with reduced likelihood of fish stories lol
Wouldn't cure and dry style have an effect on final weight?
 
Wouldn't cure and dry style have an effect on final weight?
oh absolutely. that's where we weed out the men from the boys :ROFLMAO:

i mean, to be fair, i completely fucked my last run right before harvest due to a user malfunction with a timer for a water pump. would've hit the 2lb goal out of a 4x4 tent if i had done the one thing i was supposed to (turn the timer back to auto instead of leaving it in the off position). certainly affected the yield.

however, with a longer time window post-harvest, it will eliminate the possibility of someone fudging their numbers by weighing prematurely. a few weeks of cure will equalize the moisture content, and if participants are willing to use hygrometers in their curing containers, we can be reasonably assured everyone is weighing at a relatively similar moisture content, and can correlate that to media volume for accurate "scoring."
 
I’m in but cut down my current grow 7/7 if all goes well. If I can get the cuts/clones to participate a couple weeks before that LETS GO! Coco DTW all day everyday ! I might be leaning on (cheating) with Aqua for a dialed in nutrient program FTW! Lol
 
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