Cloning

[GoodShit97]

I need help people.
All my clones leaves keep turning brown and rotting....
I thought too much moisture but Idfk why anymore, ive completely removed the dome and its still happening. Ill grab some pics in a sec, cloner is sitting in ambient light, on top of my pellet stove to stay warm so being too cold isnt an option.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I wouldn't have known anything about it if it weren't for you mentioning/sending it to me.
I was curious of it's make up but couldn't really find much online about it.

I tried clonex and to be honest I liked the cinnamon powder method better, even if it is bro science lol, it worked better than clonex did for me
This will be my first set of aero roots but my other clones never really rooted up like crazy they just did what they wanted lol.

you got the power of Muddy Waters in your corner now!!!!!

if you buy anything from K4L make sure you sign up for their email. it's kinda like GPS, never pay full price!

i have bought almost everything they sell over the years.

 

[moe.red]

Hey gs don’t forget to change that water out. The one major drawback to most cloners is heat rising from the pump and low o2 sats. It’s a baby hydro system so lower water temp and high o2 will be best case scenario

Or drop a tiny airstone in if you got one handy. Maybe it already has one?

 

[GoodShit97]

Hey gs don’t forget to change that water out. The one major drawback to most cloners is heat rising from the pump and low o2 sats. It’s a baby hydro system so lower water temp and high o2 will be best case scenario

Or drop a tiny airstone in if you got one handy. Maybe it already has one?

No air stone in it.

Bandit was saying he's run this on his porch in 90-100 degree weather and set roots in 6 or 7 days so idk
I guess we will see what happens lol

 

[Bandit420]

The aeroponics provides all the needed air. No need for an air stone in an Ez Clone machine

Home - EZ-CLONE

The unrivaled EZ-CLONE® Plant Propagation System for all growers. Easily propagate your best plants quickly and effortlessly.

ezclone.com

 

[moe.red]

The aeroponics provides all the needed air. No need for an air stone in an Ez Clone machine

Home - EZ-CLONE

The unrivaled EZ-CLONE® Plant Propagation System for all growers. Easily propagate your best plants quickly and effortlessly.

ezclone.com

Hmmm. So how does the o2 get in there to replace what the plants use if the root zone is sealed? And you are sealing in co2 which can throw off ph via carbonic acid. Or am I missing something? Reference : have one too.

 

[GoodShit97]

Hmmm. So how does the o2 get in there to replace what the plants use if the root zone is sealed? And you are sealing in co2 which can throw off ph via carbonic acid. Or am I missing something? Reference : have one too.

Idk lol
I'm just doing what the directions said

 

[Stoneyluv]

Hmmm. So how does the o2 get in there to replace what the plants use if the root zone is sealed? And you are sealing in co2 which can throw off ph via carbonic acid. Or am I missing something? Reference : have one too.

i always assumed that because the water was always splashing around and mixing with air constantly that thats what created the O2. i always looked at areocloners like a fountain in a fish pond and they create a ton of O2 in a pond.

 

[Bandit420]

Hmmm. So how does the o2 get in there to replace what the plants use if the root zone is sealed? And you are sealing in co2 which can throw off ph via carbonic acid. Or am I missing something? Reference : have one too.

The action is fluming. Similar to how a pond is aerated



The same thing happens in an aerocloner.
The 8 gallons of water is what keeps the pump from heating the water too much. That's where bucket cloners often fail is due to too low of a water volume. Ideally, those should be made from 7 gallon buckets and not 5 or 3.

There's no need to change the water but only top it off when needed and even then that's not really needed since the whole process is usually complete inside of 10 days. The water may drop an inch if that in that time

 

[Bandit420]

No air stone in it.

Bandit was saying he's run this on his porch in 90-100 degree weather and set roots in 6 or 7 days so idk
I guess we will see what happens lol

One of the clones from that Summer.



The cutting was taken from a commercial landscape and rooted in that machine out on my deck, set in the shade where temps exceeded 90+. It's about 5 years later and the plant is doing very well.
Warmth is an ally in aerocloning. I liked running that machine in the low to mid 80s since that always gave me best results and microbial cloning does not like cold water. Too cool and the process stalls out and clones rot and die.
I kept the cloner running for about a month that Summer, topping it off and adding more plants as it went along.

 

[Stoneyluv]

The action is fluming. Similar to how a pond is aerated

View attachment 61967

The same thing happens in an aerocloner.
The 8 gallons of water is what keeps the pump from heating the water too much. That's where bucket cloners often fail is due to too low of a water volume. Ideally, those should be made from 7 gallon buckets and not 5 or 3.

There's no need to change the water but only top it off when needed and even then that's not really needed since the whole process is usually complete inside of 10 days. The water may drop an inch if that in that time

not saying you should, but i've had the same water in my cloner for over six months already just topping off when needed. when i was perpetual cloning i didn't have opportunity to dump and refill.

.

my ONLY beef with areocloners are you mist keep the water filtered of debri. when roots fall off and go through the pump they gunk up those sprayers... i used to keep a short piece of wire handy and just poke them out once a week.

my favorite cloner does not use those sprayer heads thus being the reason it's my favorite!!!!!

 

[Bandit420]

not saying you should, but i've had the same water in my cloner for over six months already just topping off when needed. when i was perpetual cloning i didn't have opportunity to dump and refill.

.

my ONLY beef with areocloners are you mist keep the water filtered of debri. when roots fall off and go through the pump they gunk up those sprayers... i used to keep a short piece of wire handy and just poke them out once a week.

my favorite cloner does not use those sprayer heads thus being the reason it's my favorite!!!!!

I remember doing some real wacky shit with that machine. Just leaving xtra clones in it to veg and go as long as they want then getting a root ball so big it didn't fit thru the hole so I had to cut it off. I don't think I ever had an experiment fail and a plant die. They just kept growing.
Once they get going it's like a stew and you can keep that thing on simmer and just keep adding stuff to make more stew every day.

Only trouble I ever had was cloning roses. But just about every plant I stuck in there would pop roots and those that didn't I found out later were not ideal for cloning. Things like cactus and succulents but everything else popped roots

 

[GoodShit97]

my ONLY beef with areocloners are you mist keep the water filtered of debri. when roots fall off and go through the pump they gunk up those sprayers... i used to keep a short piece of wire handy and just poke them out once a weweek.

I ordered 100 nozzles when I got my bucket and bandit sent me another 100ct bag. idk how many are still in it but it looks close to 100 anyways so thats 1 thing I'm not terribly worried about.
I have plenty of wire too so no issues there either lol

 

[moe.red]

The action is fluming. Similar to how a pond is aerated

View attachment 61967

The same thing happens in an aerocloner.
The 8 gallons of water is what keeps the pump from heating the water too much. That's where bucket cloners often fail is due to too low of a water volume. Ideally, those should be made from 7 gallon buckets and not 5 or 3.

There's no need to change the water but only top it off when needed and even then that's not really needed since the whole process is usually complete inside of 10 days. The water may drop an inch if that in that time

Hey bud, not disputing the thing works. At all. Like I said, I run one too. I've only found one way better.

Fountain aerators work because of the exchange of atmospheric O2 both in the spray and by turning the surface.

In a closed box with roots actively pulling O2 from it, (this is really only an issue once roots form) you will deplete the O2. I've measured it.

I guess if you plan to take them out once roots form that depletion never happens. What starts out in the box both as DO and in the airspace is enough until that point. But to grow roots the size you showed a pic of, there is no way your DO is not well below 8.

If your are running biologics they eat O2 as well.

Roots still grow at 6. At 3 you are starving them and they will absolutely protest.

At least in my neck of the woods that's what I have found.

 

[moe.red]

not saying you should, but i've had the same water in my cloner for over six months already just topping off when needed. when i was perpetual cloning i didn't have opportunity to dump and refill.

.

my ONLY beef with areocloners are you mist keep the water filtered of debri. when roots fall off and go through the pump they gunk up those sprayers... i used to keep a short piece of wire handy and just poke them out once a week.

my favorite cloner does not use those sprayer heads thus being the reason it's my favorite!!!!!

Is your box fully sealed or do you have air exchange? Like leave some collars out? Or is there a vent?

 

[Bandit420]

Hey bud, not disputing the thing works. At all. Like I said, I run one too. I've only found one way better.

Fountain aerators work because of the exchange of atmospheric O2 both in the spray and by turning the surface.

In a closed box with roots actively pulling O2 from it, (this is really only an issue once roots form) you will deplete the O2. I've measured it.

I guess if you plan to take them out once roots form that depletion never happens. What starts out in the box both as DO and in the airspace is enough until that point. But to grow roots the size you showed a pic of, there is no way your DO is not well below 8.

If your are running biologics they eat O2 as well.

Roots still grow at 6. At 3 you are starving them and they will absolutely protest.

At least in my neck of the woods that's what I have found.

I really don't get into all of that because it seems to complicate and over-think the process.
However the box is not sealed so air can pass in and out of it. Where you see the cord go in you'll also see water seeping into that gap then fall back into the rez. If water can get there then air can as well. These things are far from being an air tight sealed container.

 

[moe.red]

I really don't get into all of that because it seems to complicate and over-think the process.
However the box is not sealed so air can pass in and out of it. Where you see the cord go in you'll also see water seeping into that gap then fall back into the rez. If water can get there then air can as well. These things are far from being a air tight sealed container.

OK missed that. Mine is sealed unless I leave collars out on top.

 

[steamroller]

I was going to suggest leaving a foam piece out or running an air line through one if the unit was sealed.

 

[moe.red]

I was going to suggest leaving a foam piece out or running an air line through one if the unit was sealed.

The smallest air pump they sell at petsmart is all you need if you have a sealed system. Folks that build from a tote often are.

 

[Bandit420]

OK missed that. Mine is sealed unless I leave collars out on top.

G$ will have to take a pic but yeah there's no seal or gasket around the edges of the rez or the top. It's kind of a shelf and lip the top rests on and the lip prevents the water from leaking out of the machine. You'll see water seepage all along that edge and then more in the gap where the cord enters.
His machine is Gen2. What's out now is gen3 and I don't see seals on those either.

If lack of oxygen was any kind of concern then maybe a hard plastic straw in one of the collars would be all that's needed to unseal it then rely on the fluming for the aeration but I can tell Y'all from experience with that machine he's using, no airstone or injected air is needed with it

 

[Stoneyluv]

Is your box fully sealed or do you have air exchange? Like leave some collars out? Or is there a vent?

it's not even close to sealed... air holes are all over. and i've grown clones into full blown plants in the thing. two of my last two harvested plants were grown in it before i put them in soil.

but i also use a different nozzle than most i feel i get more O2 from mine.. and not just a one off.. i've used this thing for years!!

 

[GoodShit97]

OK missed that. Mine is sealed unless I leave collars out on top.

I have a small air stone I could add to it, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt it any.
But it is not sealed by any means.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I have a small air stone I could add to it, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt it any.
But it is not sealed by any means.

i'd wait and see what happens without it.... if you got the little white bumps on their tushies then it won't be long!!!!

 

[Bandit420]

I was going to suggest leaving a foam piece out or running an air line through one if the unit was sealed.

If a collar is pulled out it will spray water out of the machine and go dry and make a good size mess. You could run an airline thru a collar hole but then you have a PITA hassle when lifting the lid having that line connecting the two like a tether

 

[GoodShit97]

i'd wait and see what happens without it.... if you got the little white bumps on their tushies then it won't be long!!!!

Gonna have too anyway!
I forgot my cat knocked the pump to my fish tank down and the check valve failed so it filled with water. So my pump I got for my water is on the fish tank lol.

 

[moe.red]

I have a small air stone I could add to it, I'm sure it wouldn't hurt it any.
But it is not sealed by any means.

Got it now. Sorry to muddy the water.



Different system.

 

[GoodShit97]

Got it now. Sorry to muddy the water.

View attachment 61987

Different system.

It's all new to me, this whole water thing is anyway. So not muddying the water any more than it already is here
I swear I could drown a water lily man.

 

[SpectrumFarms]

The action is fluming. Similar to how a pond is aerated

View attachment 61967

The same thing happens in an aerocloner.
The 8 gallons of water is what keeps the pump from heating the water too much. That's where bucket cloners often fail is due to too low of a water volume. Ideally, those should be made from 7 gallon buckets and not 5 or 3.

There's no need to change the water but only top it off when needed and even then that's not really needed since the whole process is usually complete inside of 10 days. The water may drop an inch if that in that time

Thank you for pointing that out. I was going for 5 gallons glad I didn’t buy the bin yet!

 

[Stoneyluv]

Got it now. Sorry to muddy the water.

View attachment 61987

Different system.

you NEVER muddy the water!!!!!!are you kidding me?!?!?!

 

[Stoneyluv]

I swear I could drown a water lily man.

i struggle with growing water lily's man!! i'm like ohh for five i think... seriously..

 

[GoodShit97]

i struggle with growing water lily's man!! i'm like ohh for five i think... seriously..

Oh shit so apparently they don't just grow? They're everywhere up here and take over entire ponds and small lakes about August so I figured they kinda just grew wherever lol

 

[SpectrumFarms]

Oh shit so apparently they don't just grow? They're everywhere up here and take over entire ponds and small lakes about August

No it’s a whole process to get them started.

 

[GoodShit97]

No it’s a whole process to get them started.

Well I'd definitely drown them then

 

[Stoneyluv]

Oh shit so apparently they don't just grow? They're everywhere up here and take over entire ponds and small lakes about August so I figured they kinda just grew wherever lol

oh if i had them around me like that i'd snag em for sure. to buy them at the store already started they cost like $50... f'k dat!

No it’s a whole process to get them started.

you got that right... delicate little things!!!

 

[Bandit420]

I ordered 100 nozzles when I got my bucket and bandit sent me another 100ct bag. idk how many are still in it but it looks close to 100 anyways so thats 1 thing I'm not terribly worried about.
I have plenty of wire too so no issues there either lol

EzClone sells a product called Clear Rez which is pretty much an internal cleaner for the machine.
After a run you dump the cloning solution then fill the machine with plain water and add in the clear rez. Run it for a day or two and it will clean the inside of the manifold and sprayers.
After, dump the water and turn everything upside down to drain and dry then it's ready to stow away.

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ezclone.com

OK missed that. Mine is sealed unless I leave collars out on top.

Here's what I'm talking about with the vent on an EzClone.
In the upper left corner is that dugout where the cord runs thru to the inside but it's way larger than just a hole for a cord and you can see the shelf and lip design and how the lid sits on top but there's no seal. It would take a lot of work to make this thing air tight....



I am curious about what machine you're using now.
I sent G$ my Ezclone because I needed a larger machine and for it to also be a low rider.
I went with a TurboClone and it's still in the box for now but I cannot tell if it's sealed or not. The hole for the cord looks to be sized just for the cord so no extra venting there. Doesn't look like there's a gasket or anything that locks the lid down but weight of the lid may be all that's needed to create a seal. If this is the case I'll likely fall back to the idea of putting hard plastic or stainless steel drinking straws in a few collars to let it vent.



But yeah I'm curious if yours is a TurboKlone, another brand, or DIY?

Thank you for pointing that out. I was going for 5 gallons glad I didn’t buy the bin yet!

I've built a lot of bucket and tote cloners over the years and when it comes to water capacity even for a small machine, more is better.

However when going with a small bucket it is possible but there's some tricks to it.
You would cut holes to fit a 2" net cup rather than a neoprene collar. Remove some of the ribs of the netcup and instead of going bare root, you would use a 2" rockwool plug.
This will allow you to put the pump on a timer, 15 on, 30-60 off, and it will not overheat the water but still keep the stem moist.
The result would look something like this



On that machine I cut out every rib on the netcup except for about six. Just enough to support the rockwool plug but wide open enough so the roots would not get tangled in the ribs.
Using 2" netcups this type of cloner can comfortably fit 6 sites but it's possible to pack up to 8 in there.

I'm curious though...What's your budget for this project and how many sites will you need on your machine?
Going the DIY route with a bucket and needing a pump, manifold, collars, and sprayers it's probably gonna be around a $30-$50 build.

Viagrow makes a decent machine priced slightly above that. I've used this machine in the past and it's good machine that gets results however the top plastic is on the thin side of life and not as sturdy as a bucket lid or what EzClone and TurboKlone offers

Amazon.com

The other option which is where I bought G$'s machine originally is buying used off Ebay.
Used is a good option because really you're wanting the plastic and manifold so used or new doesn't really matter much there as long as there's no cracks and it's cleaned up well before using.
The pump can always be swapped out for a new and less expensive one which is also what I did with G$'s machine.
If this machine is within your budget, I'd highly consider making this guy an offer of $100 and see where it goes from there just for the quality upgrade over a bucket cloner, Viagrow, or knockoff machine.
Another tip I recommend with aerocloners is to have a spare pump on hand. I've had my fair share of pumps fail, even the original EZclone pump went tits up on me so having a spare at the ready can prevent losing a whole batch of clones if a pump fails

EZ Clone 32 Site Low Pro System - Black aeroponic cloner machine hydroponics | eBay

EZ Clone 32 Site Low Pro System - Black aeroponic cloner machine hydroponics. Condition is Used. Shipped with UPS Ground.

www.ebay.com

 

[SpectrumFarms]

EzClone sells a product called Clear Rez which is pretty much an internal cleaner for the machine.
After a run you dump the cloning solution then fill the machine with plain water and add in the clear rez. Run it for a day or two and it will clean the inside of the manifold and sprayers.
After, dump the water and turn everything upside down to drain and dry then it's ready to stow away.

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ezclone.com

Here's what I'm talking about with the vent on an EzClone.
In the upper left corner is that dugout where the cord runs thru to the inside but it's way larger than just a hole for a cord and you can see the shelf and lip design and how the lid sits on top but there's no seal. It would take a lot of work to make this thing air tight....

View attachment 62056

I am curious about what machine you're using now.
I sent G$ my Ezclone because I needed a larger machine and for it to also be a low rider.
I went with a TurboClone and it's still in the box for now but I cannot tell if it's sealed or not. The hole for the cord looks to be sized just for the cord so no extra venting there. Doesn't look like there's a gasket or anything that locks the lid down but weight of the lid may be all that's needed to create a seal. If this is the case I'll likely fall back to the idea of putting hard plastic or stainless steel drinking straws in a few collars to let it vent.

View attachment 62062

But yeah I'm curious if yours is a TurboKlone, another brand, or DIY?




I've built a lot of bucket and tote cloners over the years and when it comes to water capacity even for a small machine, more is better.

However when going with a small bucket it is possible but there's some tricks to it.
You would cut holes to fit a 2" net cup rather than a neoprene collar. Remove some of the ribs of the netcup and instead of going bare root, you would use a 2" rockwool plug.
This will allow you to put the pump on a timer, 15 on, 30-60 off, and it will not overheat the water but still keep the stem moist.
The result would look something like this

View attachment 62061

On that machine I cut out every rib on the netcup except for about six. Just enough to support the rockwool plug but wide open enough so the roots would not get tangled in the ribs.
Using 2" netcups this type of cloner can comfortably fit 6 sites but it's possible to pack up to 8 in there.

I'm curious though...What's your budget for this project and how many sites will you need on your machine?
Going the DIY route with a bucket and needing a pump, manifold, collars, and sprayers it's probably gonna be around a $30-$50 build.

Viagrow makes a decent machine priced slightly above that. I've used this machine in the past and it's good machine that gets results however the top plastic is on the thin side of life and not as sturdy as a bucket lid or what EzClone and TurboKlone offers

Amazon.com

The other option which is where I bought G$'s machine originally is buying used off Ebay.
Used is a good option because really you're wanting the plastic and manifold so used or new doesn't really matter much there as long as there's no cracks and it's cleaned up well before using.
The pump can always be swapped out for a new and less expensive one which is also what I did with G$'s machine.
If this machine is within your budget, I'd highly consider making this guy an offer of $100 and see where it goes from there just for the quality upgrade over a bucket cloner, Viagrow, or knockoff machine.
Another tip I recommend with aerocloners is to have a spare pump on hand. I've had my fair share of pumps fail, even the original EZclone pump went tits up on me so having a spare at the ready can prevent losing a whole batch of clones if a pump fails

EZ Clone 32 Site Low Pro System - Black aeroponic cloner machine hydroponics | eBay

EZ Clone 32 Site Low Pro System - Black aeroponic cloner machine hydroponics. Condition is Used. Shipped with UPS Ground.

www.ebay.com

[/QUOTE]

I’ve got most of everything laying around. Pump, 2 inch net pots, PVC and 360 sprayers. I really only need a larger bin and the neoprene collars and to build the manifold. Was wanting to do 12-14 sites. With only needing 20 dollars or less of materials, I’m gonna give it a go. Then if that fails I’ll go the manufactured route.

 

[Zen_seeker]

I need smaller but $250 is nuts to me. A 9 hole would be perfect I think. Small compact square. Leave in the tent shelf or move as needed.

I couldn’t even find the neoprene pucks local to put in my red coffee can cloner. Foam doesn’t quite grab the stems. But it does work. G$ used one to keep them alive until the new cloner got there.

I’ll keep any eye open for used smaller ones.

I know these things aren’t needed. But man do they make life easier. My “I would like” list keeps growing watching these threads.

 

[Bandit420]

View attachment 62063

I need smaller but $250 is nuts to me. A 9 hole would be perfect I think. Small compact square. Leave in the tent shelf or move as needed.

I couldn’t even find the neoprene pucks local to put in my red coffee can cloner. Foam doesn’t quite grab the stems. But it does work. G$ used one to keep them alive until the new cloner got there.

I’ll keep any eye open for used smaller ones.

I know these things aren’t needed. But man do they make life easier. My “I would like” list keeps growing watching these threads.

They definitely get the Because it's for growing pot mark up on pricing.
Given that, if I was legal this is the field I'd be in. Selling clones.
I paid $250 for my 96 site machine but imagine using it to sell clones at $10-$25 a pop? Pretty much like owning a gold mine. + no hassles of testing, selling, or processing flower.
Be a force like Burpee or something. Multi million dollar biz selling tomato starter plants & seeds but doesn't sell a single tomato

 

[Zen_seeker]

They definitely get the Because it's for growing pot mark up on pricing.
Given that, if I was legal this is the field I'd be in. Selling clones.
I paid $250 for my 96 site machine but imagine using it to sell clones at $10-$25 a pop? Pretty much like owning a gold mine. + no hassles of testing, selling, or processing flower.
Be a force like Burpee or something. Multi million dollar biz selling tomato starter plants & seeds but doesn't sell a single tomato

Tempting but we have enough trouble with the city. Besides I give all my extra clones and seeds away. I just like seeing new growers get started and sharing my hobby.

But a few years down the road I might charge for consultations and give away free clones.

 

[moe.red]

@Bandit420



I don't use this much anymore, because of the issues I mentioned. I use a fog cloner for the most part now. It gets really bad if you try to use all 36 sites.

This one is definitely sealed, and has a much smaller water volume. My guess is yours works well because of the size, water volume, and some air exchange.

If anyone out there is looking at this thread and has some setup similar to mine, a tiny airstone will make it work fine. Just pushes atmospheric into the res to allow for the aeration Bandit mentioned earlier with the pond spray system.

 

[GoodShit97]

It's happening