PH Levels for Cannabis Explained by Aqua Man

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH

This will be a simple guide leaving out a lot of information. So lets get started with a couple of definitions to help you understand.

What is PH?​

PH is a measurement of how alkaline or acid a solution is based on measuring hydrogen ions. It tells us nothing more than the ratio of acidic to alkaline elements. It does not tell us how much of each the solution contains or the alkalinity of the water.

pH at it's core is a measure of the relative amount of free hydrogen and hydroxyl ions ratio. Ie H+ verses OH-. Quantified in molar mass

The pH scale is logarithmic and inversely indicates the activity of hydrogen ions in the solution.

So each, 0.1 increments is either double or half the concentration.... pH 7 to 8 would be a 10x fold increase in OH- ions

Whereas pH 7 to 5 would be a 100x fold increase of H+

pH=−log⁡(H+)≈−log⁡([H+])

Sulfuric hydrogen ion is a great 👍 acidic H+ anchor; Potassium hydroxide is a useful source for the hydroxyl OH- component. But both need to be tightly controlled. ( Contributed by @Franksta )

What is alkalinity?​

Alkalinity is the measurement of the waters buffering capacity (ability to neutralize acids). Its the total amount of carbonate and bicarbonate in the water that affects its ability to resist change to PH. If you know the alkalinity you can actually calculate the amount of acid of varying types needed to reach your target PH but we wont get into that.


So now we have a basic understanding of the difference lets get into some examples of source water and how alkalinity will affect PH.

RO and Distilled water​

Ro and Distilled water is very low in mineral content containing carbonate or bicarbonate sources, we know this because if we test the ppm its usually under 40 and as low as 0ppm. This means it has a very low alkalinity (ability to neutralize acids) and is easily influenced by anything added that's acidic. But likewise it does not contain acid and is easily influenced by anything added that's basic. This results in a very unstable PH that can be easily influenced by anything added or anything its added to. In hydro the ideal ppm of carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an adequate buffer will be 50-100ppm with 75ppm being the target. Less than this and PH may swing to fast and be unstable, more and it will not drift enough and will require too much acid that could affect nutrient ratio's negatively depending on the acid used. By adding alkalinity and then acid we provide a more stable PH because adding more of either will have less impact on the overall ratio of acidic to basic elements

When used in hydro it should have alkalinity (a buffer) added back to prevent wild PH swings. Any source of carbonates, bicarbonates, silicates or hydroxides will work to create alkalinity. Sources i would recommend would be calcium carbonate, potassium bicarbonate (commonly sold as PH up) and finally what i would consider the best option is potassium silicate as it is a source of potassium and silica which are both excellent for cannabis. When using RO or distilled you will want to add back some calcium and magnesium if your nutrients are not designed for RO/distilled water as that's usually what Ro filters are removing for the majority. But most cal/mag is in the form of nitrate and provides no alkalinity (buffering capacity) so adding one of the previously mentioned or other is still a must.

When used in soil this unstable PH is actually IMO beneficial if you have a pre buffered soil (which you should) This means the water will have no impact on the PH potential (more on this later) of the soil and will almost instantly be influenced by the soil to the take on the PH of the soil makeup. This is why i feel we do not need to be PHing our nutrient solution for soil grows (unlike soiless and hydro). The soil is what will adjust the PH of our nutrient solution.

Tap Water​

OK we all know tap water varies a lot form place to place and I will explain the basics of how to determine if your tap water is suitable or not for use. First we want the PPM and second we want the makeup of that ppm if available. Generally speaking the majority of the PPM makeup will be calcium carbonate. This is used to buffer the water supply and prevent acidic conditions that erode the coatings and will break down piping and leach them into the water supply such a lead (Flint Michigan ring a bell?) So we can generally assume the majority of the PPM in tap water is likely calcium carbonate but also some others like magnesium, sulfur, phospahte, iron etc. So if you have a ppm of 100-200ppm you can assume roughly 50-75% of that is calcium carbonate. Remember our target is 75ppm carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an ideal alkalinity (hope we are starting to see how import alkalinity is and we can't just go by PH) Now there are some cases when some sodium may be used such as sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda (can also be used as a buffer in a pinch but not recommended as a long term option) so we can google our local water report and see the makeup of the ppm in the water.

Soil PH potential​

Now when we buy a prebufferd soil like most of the ones we use they come "Prebuffered" (alkalinity adjusted) what does this mean? This means the company has added amendments that when water is added the resulting PH of the water in the soil will be in a favorable range for growing our plants. Often times peat is used to lower PH and lime is used to raise PH in these soils. Just like in water we want to control the alkalinity (buffering capacity) of the soil to have a stable PH that is not easily influenced by adding things such as nutrients or other. Unlike hydro and soiless where we control the alkalinity (buffering capacity) of the water by adding it directly to the water it is applied to the soil. Which brings me back to my point of we don't need to PH our nutrient solution in soil because the soil provides the buffering and will adjust the PH. Now things like lime and peat break down slowly over time and only soluble elements will impact PH so this is how they control the PH in soil over long periods of time, because it breaks down slowly and only a small amount is soluble at a time its unlikely after a grow it has been depleted. But if we are reusing the soil we should be looking at re amending the buffering capacity before using again to ensure there is enough to last through the next grow. Often times farmers will do this once a year before seeding crops.

Effects of nutrients and source water on PH​

First the PH down acids we use tend to break down much faster than the alkaline sources we use in both hydro and soil. This is one reason we see a hydro systems PH generally rise over time unless something is creating more acid like decaying roots in which case we may actually see PH going down. Typically a PH increase of 0.2 in a 24 hr period is desirable and by adjusting the alkalinity we can control the PH drift. In the case of soil the acids used to bring PH down before feeding break down quickly and the alkaline and acidic buffer we have created minimizes the impact so they are really of not much benefit and have virtually no impact on long term PH potential of the soil. This is why we can't use them to lower high soil PH once we have an alkaline source buildup. However in hydro and coco PHing the nutrient solution is important because unlike soil there is not an adequate buffer established although in coco it is possible to do so.
Generally speaking the ratio's of nutrients we use will be acidic so when we get a buildup of nutrients we will almost always see PH drop. This is where you often hear ppl say flush the media. What this does is dilutes the dissolved elements and will remove some from the media in runoff. Another factor that contributes to PH changes are tge sources of nitrogen used. Ammoniacal nitrogen can cause PH in media to drop. This is due to the release of h+ ions from ion exchange. Whereas Nitrate nitrogen does the opposite and will cause PH in the media to rise when taken up by the plants.

Conversely a water source with high alkalinity can build up in the media and cause the PH potential of the soil to rise over time and in turn the PH of the water added to it. This is the reason we should look at the alkalinity of the water source not the PH as PH cannot measure the potential influence but rather only result.

Often in both circumstances its a good idea to flush the media to remove excess amount of available elements that may be affecting the PH negatively.

I'm gonna stop there and if anyone has questions i will do my best to answer them. If you have something you would like to add please do.


Aqua Man
 
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This is the same product I have been using Moe from KiS. You may already be aware but there are directions for mixing that and that package makes about 3/4 of a gallon of ready to use concentrate. KiS does not give the directions out that I know of, I found them on the other site and have them at home. I can get them to you if you need them.
 
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I used to get nitric from work… it was used for a ph dosser to ensure that the ph was adequate for the sewer system. But we got it in 45gal drums lol. Prob a bit much for this purpose. Lol the first time i put it in a jar and yeah shit ate the fucking lid 😬…. Knowledge gained
Ever mix any with glycol?


Lol
 
Yeah 👍 that's why I said potassium hydroxide cause especially at the tail end your simply adding in potassium and a hydroxyl OH-component. ... Skip the silicate... Can make a water molecules instead or it's added oxygen and hydrogen at the roots which I believe are in a dynamic state of charges that's useful for uptake


Would be really cool to find hydroponic or lab grade element solution sensors for the following elements. Then use molar mass and the gleaned information to drive the process though the whole cycle

The million dollar question is if there anything available on the market for such a use



  • Nitrogen (N)
  • Potassium (K)
  • Phosphorus (P)
  • Calcium (Ca)
  • Magnesium (Mg)
  • Sulphur (S)
  • Iron (Fe)
  • Manganese (Mn)
  • Copper (Cu)
  • Zinc (Zn)
  • Molybdate (Mo)
  • Boron (B)
  • Chlorine (Cl)

Even just sensor for the top five could be such a boon of information to analyze
Would be reallllllly cooool.

An all-in-one meter would be insane.
 
Would be reallllllly cooool.

An all-in-one meter would be insane.
The biggest thing is as Moe red points out you need a probe for each element. Or a device that that can correctly interpret spectrum.

Looks like some of them are out there just really pricey and expensive to maintain
 
The biggest thing is as Moe red points out you need a probe for each element. Or a device that that can correctly interpret spectrum.

Looks like some of them are out there just really pricey and expensive to maintain
Yeah, seems kinda impossible, 18-in-1 element meter

maybe some kind of alien tech lol
 
Yeah, seems kinda impossible, 18-in-1 element meter

maybe some kind of alien tech lol
Totally possible yes 👍 but have to be funded by aliens


Maybe if I smoke they'll take me up there in the clouds with them.... If there watching
PXL_20230616_025727851.jpg
 
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This is the same product I have been using Moe from KiS. You may already be aware but there are directions for mixing that and that package makes about 3/4 of a gallon of ready to use concentrate. KiS does not give the directions out that I know of, I found them on the other site and have them at home. I can get them to you if you need them.
Thanks man.

After I get done with this harvest this weekend, I should have some time to dig back in on this and do the bench testing I started.

Do you have any test strips for GH or KH?
 
This is the same product I have been using Moe from KiS. You may already be aware but there are directions for mixing that and that package makes about 3/4 of a gallon of ready to use concentrate. KiS does not give the directions out that I know of, I found them on the other site and have them at home. I can get them to you if you need them.
Hey dude please send it if you can find it.

I mixed it up and added it to the res with RO water and 10PPM of H2O2 left over. PH went to 9+. Overnight it dropped a point, so took it back to 9.2 again, and let it go another day.

Used PH down to bring it down to 5.8.

Resulting KH? 0. Meaning no buffer. WTF?

I need to figure this out once and for all with an exact recipe.
 
I did some looking around and I think this is the one I followed. Taken from here-


1. Add 1/2 gal. distilled water

2. Using GH PH Up, raise PH to approx. 11.3

3. Add 560 grams of Agsil 16H, stir/agitate until completely dissolved.

4. Add 1/2 gal. distilled water PH’d at 11.3

5. 1 gallon stock 7.8% potassium silicate completed.

P.S. I use 2ml/gallon in my recirculating ebb and flow system. 2ml/gal = 40 ppm SiO2 (approximately)
 
I did some looking around and I think this is the one I followed. Taken from here-

I'm a little confused following those directions.

For step 3, are you adding the Agsil to the res and then adding the 11.3 mixture on step 4? Or is it the half gallon of UP mixture you are adding the Agsil to? Then adding another half gallon of 11.3?

Sorry. I just woke up and my reading comprehension is still asleep.
 
I'm a little confused following those directions.

For step 3, are you adding the Agsil to the res and then adding the 11.3 mixture on step 4? Or is it the half gallon of UP mixture you are adding the Agsil to? Then adding another half gallon of 11.3?

Sorry. I just woke up and my reading comprehension is still asleep.
Grump, this is a recipe for making an Agsil 16 concentrate from the powdered stuff Moe had bought. After mixing using these instructions, you will have a gallon of 7.8% Potassium Silicate that can be used in the res, in this case, at the suggested rate of 2 ml per gallon. Hope that makes sense.
 
Grump, this is a recipe for making an Agsil 16 concentrate from the powdered stuff Moe had bought. After mixing using these instructions, you will have a gallon of 7.8% Potassium Silicate that can be used in the res, in this case, at the suggested rate of 2 ml per gallon. Hope that makes sense.
Yessir, thanks. That's what I was assuming it meant but something about it had me confused. This actually answers a question I had for moe over in my First Time thread. I mix my nutes in the top-off res and, previously, I'd been making a batch of Agsil and letting it sit overnight. My plant has been drinking way too much for me to deprive her of the top-off trickle. This way, I can mix a batch in a pitcher and then, when I'm ready, the nute mix should be relatively quick. Perfect. Thanks a ton, SweetLeaf.
 
Exactly. I like the 2.5 gallon in fridge water dispenser for doing stuff like this. Convert all measurements to ml. Makes life so much easier and less error prone. At least for my high ass.
 
@Aqua Man i have virtually every horticultural acid and base on my shelf. Tell me how to get a resulting KH more than zero on the bench. When I try these things expecting to build a buffer in the end it is failing. Plenty of GH but no KH.

If I run the system for a while I do get measurable KH but I think it’s the plants doing that because the chemistry experiments I’m doing all fail.
 
@Aqua Man i have virtually every horticultural acid and base on my shelf. Tell me how to get a resulting KH more than zero on the bench. When I try these things expecting to build a buffer in the end it is failing. Plenty of GH but no KH.

If I run the system for a while I do get measurable KH but I think it’s the plants doing that because the chemistry experiments I’m doing all fail.
So you have potassium bicarbonate?
 
So you have potassium bicarbonate?
OK yes I have this, as well as several acids.

This showed up yesterday


Hoping it gives me a little better accuracy.

What would you like to try?


Citric Acid
Nitric Acid
Potassium Bicarbonate
Potassium Silicate
Agsil 16
Silicium
Sufuric Acid
Phosphoric Acid

And quite a few things that are not agricultural like NAOH, KOH, etc.
 
OK yes I have this, as well as several acids.

This showed up yesterday


Hoping it gives me a little better accuracy.

What would you like to try?


Citric Acid
Nitric Acid
Potassium Bicarbonate
Potassium Silicate
Agsil 16
Silicium
Sufuric Acid
Phosphoric Acid

And quite a few things that are not agricultural like NAOH, KOH, etc.
1.5 gram potassium bicarbonate into 10L RO measuring PH. Ppm after addition. Should be about 90ppm of bicarbonate and a total of about 150ppm. This should give a fairly high buffering capacity between 100-150 is what I recommend.

Then bring ph down to 5.8 with phosphoric acid using metered doses to record volume used and again measure PH, pom.

What concentration of phosphoric acid will you be using?

You can also do the same if you like using citric acid to show how citric acid reacts with bicarbonate to produce an unstable PH.


Then test for PH change daily of each.

Thats one test. You can do the same with potassium silicate at the same dose.

You could also track the HK over time
 
1.5 gram potassium bicarbonate into 10L RO measuring PH. Ppm after addition. Should be about 90ppm of bicarbonate and a total of about 150ppm. This should give a fairly high buffering capacity between 100-150 is what I recommend.

Then bring ph down to 5.8 with phosphoric acid using metered doses to record volume used and again measure PH, pom.

What concentration of phosphoric acid will you be using?

You can also do the same if you like using citric acid to show how citric acid reacts with bicarbonate to produce an unstable PH.


Then test for PH change daily of each.

Thats one test. You can do the same with potassium silicate at the same dose.

You could also track the HK over time
IMG_2524.jpeg


Just found this looking for the phosphoric acid concentration in PH Down


Pro = hydrogenated water. Hmmm
 
OK yes I have this, as well as several acids.

This showed up yesterday


Hoping it gives me a little better accuracy.

What would you like to try?


Citric Acid
Nitric Acid
Potassium Bicarbonate
Potassium Silicate
Agsil 16
Silicium
Sufuric Acid
Phosphoric Acid

And quite a few things that are not agricultural like NAOH, KOH, etc.
I like the citric acid but you got to use really small trace amount.... It's a really strong acid


Here's another base element I'm really impressed with during especially early and mid flowering...



Calcium hydroxide (traditionally called slaked lime) is an inorganic compound with the chemical formula Ca(OH)2. It is a colorless crystal or white powder and is produced when quicklime (calcium oxide) is mixed with water. It has many names including hydrated lime, caustic lime, builders' lime, slaked lime, cal, and pickling lime. Calcium hydroxide is used in many applications, including food preparation, where it has been identified as E number E526. Limewater, also called milk of lime, is the common name for a saturated solution of calcium hydroxide.

What is retrograde solubility? A few, solutes like calcium carbonate, calcium phosphate, calcium sulfate magnesium silicate etc., become less soluble in water as temperature increases. This inverse temperature dependence is sometimes referred to as retrograde or inverse solubility, Implications of retrograde solubility.

Retrograde solubility
The reason for this rather uncommon behavior is that the dissolution of calcium hydroxide in water is an exothermic process. Thus, according to Le Chatelier's principle, a lowering of temperature favours the elimination of the heat liberated through the process of dissolution and increases the equilibrium constant of dissolution of Ca(OH)2, and so increases its solubility at low temperature. This counter-intuitive temperature dependence of the solubility is referred to as "retrograde" or "inverse" solubility. The variably hydrated phases of calcium sulfate (gypsum, bassanite and anhydrite) also exhibit a retrograde solubility for the same reason because their dissolution reactions are exothermic.


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