PH Levels for Cannabis Explained by Aqua Man

OK I'm going to do my best to explain PH since its something that is for the most part greatly misunderstood and can be confusing to new growers and even experienced growers alike. This will explain why we need both ppm and PH meters to give us informed information about PH

This will be a simple guide leaving out a lot of information. So lets get started with a couple of definitions to help you understand.

What is PH?​

PH is a measurement of how alkaline or acid a solution is based on measuring hydrogen ions. It tells us nothing more than the ratio of acidic to alkaline elements. It does not tell us how much of each the solution contains or the alkalinity of the water.

pH at it's core is a measure of the relative amount of free hydrogen and hydroxyl ions ratio. Ie H+ verses OH-. Quantified in molar mass

The pH scale is logarithmic and inversely indicates the activity of hydrogen ions in the solution.

So each, 0.1 increments is either double or half the concentration.... pH 7 to 8 would be a 10x fold increase in OH- ions

Whereas pH 7 to 5 would be a 100x fold increase of H+

pH=−log⁡(H+)≈−log⁡([H+])

Sulfuric hydrogen ion is a great 👍 acidic H+ anchor; Potassium hydroxide is a useful source for the hydroxyl OH- component. But both need to be tightly controlled. ( Contributed by @Franksta )

What is alkalinity?​

Alkalinity is the measurement of the waters buffering capacity (ability to neutralize acids). Its the total amount of carbonate and bicarbonate in the water that affects its ability to resist change to PH. If you know the alkalinity you can actually calculate the amount of acid of varying types needed to reach your target PH but we wont get into that.


So now we have a basic understanding of the difference lets get into some examples of source water and how alkalinity will affect PH.

RO and Distilled water​

Ro and Distilled water is very low in mineral content containing carbonate or bicarbonate sources, we know this because if we test the ppm its usually under 40 and as low as 0ppm. This means it has a very low alkalinity (ability to neutralize acids) and is easily influenced by anything added that's acidic. But likewise it does not contain acid and is easily influenced by anything added that's basic. This results in a very unstable PH that can be easily influenced by anything added or anything its added to. In hydro the ideal ppm of carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an adequate buffer will be 50-100ppm with 75ppm being the target. Less than this and PH may swing to fast and be unstable, more and it will not drift enough and will require too much acid that could affect nutrient ratio's negatively depending on the acid used. By adding alkalinity and then acid we provide a more stable PH because adding more of either will have less impact on the overall ratio of acidic to basic elements

When used in hydro it should have alkalinity (a buffer) added back to prevent wild PH swings. Any source of carbonates, bicarbonates, silicates or hydroxides will work to create alkalinity. Sources i would recommend would be calcium carbonate, potassium bicarbonate (commonly sold as PH up) and finally what i would consider the best option is potassium silicate as it is a source of potassium and silica which are both excellent for cannabis. When using RO or distilled you will want to add back some calcium and magnesium if your nutrients are not designed for RO/distilled water as that's usually what Ro filters are removing for the majority. But most cal/mag is in the form of nitrate and provides no alkalinity (buffering capacity) so adding one of the previously mentioned or other is still a must.

When used in soil this unstable PH is actually IMO beneficial if you have a pre buffered soil (which you should) This means the water will have no impact on the PH potential (more on this later) of the soil and will almost instantly be influenced by the soil to the take on the PH of the soil makeup. This is why i feel we do not need to be PHing our nutrient solution for soil grows (unlike soiless and hydro). The soil is what will adjust the PH of our nutrient solution.

Tap Water​

OK we all know tap water varies a lot form place to place and I will explain the basics of how to determine if your tap water is suitable or not for use. First we want the PPM and second we want the makeup of that ppm if available. Generally speaking the majority of the PPM makeup will be calcium carbonate. This is used to buffer the water supply and prevent acidic conditions that erode the coatings and will break down piping and leach them into the water supply such a lead (Flint Michigan ring a bell?) So we can generally assume the majority of the PPM in tap water is likely calcium carbonate but also some others like magnesium, sulfur, phospahte, iron etc. So if you have a ppm of 100-200ppm you can assume roughly 50-75% of that is calcium carbonate. Remember our target is 75ppm carbonate/bicarbonate sources to provide an ideal alkalinity (hope we are starting to see how import alkalinity is and we can't just go by PH) Now there are some cases when some sodium may be used such as sodium bicarbonate aka baking soda (can also be used as a buffer in a pinch but not recommended as a long term option) so we can google our local water report and see the makeup of the ppm in the water.

Soil PH potential​

Now when we buy a prebufferd soil like most of the ones we use they come "Prebuffered" (alkalinity adjusted) what does this mean? This means the company has added amendments that when water is added the resulting PH of the water in the soil will be in a favorable range for growing our plants. Often times peat is used to lower PH and lime is used to raise PH in these soils. Just like in water we want to control the alkalinity (buffering capacity) of the soil to have a stable PH that is not easily influenced by adding things such as nutrients or other. Unlike hydro and soiless where we control the alkalinity (buffering capacity) of the water by adding it directly to the water it is applied to the soil. Which brings me back to my point of we don't need to PH our nutrient solution in soil because the soil provides the buffering and will adjust the PH. Now things like lime and peat break down slowly over time and only soluble elements will impact PH so this is how they control the PH in soil over long periods of time, because it breaks down slowly and only a small amount is soluble at a time its unlikely after a grow it has been depleted. But if we are reusing the soil we should be looking at re amending the buffering capacity before using again to ensure there is enough to last through the next grow. Often times farmers will do this once a year before seeding crops.

Effects of nutrients and source water on PH​

First the PH down acids we use tend to break down much faster than the alkaline sources we use in both hydro and soil. This is one reason we see a hydro systems PH generally rise over time unless something is creating more acid like decaying roots in which case we may actually see PH going down. Typically a PH increase of 0.2 in a 24 hr period is desirable and by adjusting the alkalinity we can control the PH drift. In the case of soil the acids used to bring PH down before feeding break down quickly and the alkaline and acidic buffer we have created minimizes the impact so they are really of not much benefit and have virtually no impact on long term PH potential of the soil. This is why we can't use them to lower high soil PH once we have an alkaline source buildup. However in hydro and coco PHing the nutrient solution is important because unlike soil there is not an adequate buffer established although in coco it is possible to do so.
Generally speaking the ratio's of nutrients we use will be acidic so when we get a buildup of nutrients we will almost always see PH drop. This is where you often hear ppl say flush the media. What this does is dilutes the dissolved elements and will remove some from the media in runoff. Another factor that contributes to PH changes are tge sources of nitrogen used. Ammoniacal nitrogen can cause PH in media to drop. This is due to the release of h+ ions from ion exchange. Whereas Nitrate nitrogen does the opposite and will cause PH in the media to rise when taken up by the plants.

Conversely a water source with high alkalinity can build up in the media and cause the PH potential of the soil to rise over time and in turn the PH of the water added to it. This is the reason we should look at the alkalinity of the water source not the PH as PH cannot measure the potential influence but rather only result.

Often in both circumstances its a good idea to flush the media to remove excess amount of available elements that may be affecting the PH negatively.

I'm gonna stop there and if anyone has questions i will do my best to answer them. If you have something you would like to add please do.


Aqua Man
 
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Nice… the reason i say we should include nutrients into the mix is because it may play a role in the reactions that are taking place… once we add the plants to this it will also change the dynamics…

As easy as this sounds to test there are so many variables that go into ph its not going to be as simple as we think. Chemical reactions, temperature, aeration concentrations, nutrients and the list goes on and on all can help or hurt our desired PH
I completely agree with this statement.

I'm also a believer that proving our theory on the bench should be attempted before in the grow.

Why is my KH now 0 after PH down? People running potassium silicate need to know what is happening there.
 
I can get those on order, I do not think I have any pure sulfuric. Or nitric

Phosphoric is PH down, if that is acceptable.

OK I have them both in the amazon cart. Anything else before I place the order?
I used to get nitric from work… it was used for a ph dosser to ensure that the ph was adequate for the sewer system. But we got it in 45gal drums lol. Prob a bit much for this purpose. Lol the first time i put it in a jar and yeah shit ate the fucking lid 😬…. Knowledge gained
 
I completely agree with this statement.

I'm also a believer that proving our theory on the bench should be attempted before in the grow.

Why is my KH now 0 after PH down? People running potassium silicate need to know what is happening there.
How low did you bring the PH?

Also what type of acid? Possibly its a specific reaction to those specific elements?
 
How low did you bring the PH?

Also what type of acid? Possibly its a specific reaction to those specific elements?


So here are the results:

Overnight stirring PH remained high. PPM stable.

Added in too much PH down. It's now sitting at 2.6. (n)


PH down is phosphoric acid
 
The other end of the puzzle is the nitrate and ammonium ion ratio and what to consider as input

Things like ammonium nitrate would be cost or prohibited to some degree. Unless we can find a pathway that fits the bill.

So alternative is things like ammonium sulfate or calcium nitrate should be considered.

With the right choices you'll have better control over the ratio at different stages of nutrition needs
 
The other end of the puzzle is the nitrate and ammonium ion ratio and what to consider as input

Things like ammonium nitrate would be cost or prohibited to some degree. Unless we can find a pathway that fits the bill.

So alternative is things like ammonium sulfate or calcium nitrate should be considered.

With the right choices you'll have better control over the ratio at different stages of nutrition needs
Yeah the more sources you use the tighter control over ratios you have. Last time i bought ammonium nitrate i had to show ID and i dont even think you can now without a license.
 
So what is the consensus?

I wonder if Potassium Silicate stops being a buffer below 7.

I wonder if the KH I am reading in my res has more to do with the nutes than the "buffer" I think I am adding.

Something I am doing is making my PH more or less stable, but right now I cannot conclusively say what.
 
So what is the consensus?

I wonder if Potassium Silicate stops being a buffer below 7.

I wonder if the KH I am reading in my res has more to do with the nutes than the "buffer" I think I am adding.

Something I am doing is making my PH more or less stable, but right now I cannot conclusively say what.
Can be many things… healthy plants and a good environment increase uptake… the more nitrate taken up the more upward drift you see.

The higher the ppm of nutrients the more stability as less impact on the ratios as they are taken up.

The better gas exchange the more co2 is driven off and not accumulated.

The more ammonium taken up by the plant the more of a downward teend you will see. This can be from nutrient sources, decay of plants and microorganisms.

The more bacteria populations in the water the more microorganisms respiration that consumes o2 and releases co2. This can be significant and will be based off individual species food sources.temperature also had a large effect in this area.

There are lots of tiny clues like seeing bacteria blooms which consume lots of o2 and produce lots of co2 and then you can bet it will follow with die and decay leading to more co2 and ammonium which as stated above will lead to a decline in the ph.

Everyone is going to require a different amount of buffering to cover these impacts specifically to their grow… so I usually start off with 150ppm for RO and 100ppm recommendations for tap of potassium silicate.
 
Everyone is going to require a different amount of buffering to cover these impacts specifically to their grow… so I usually start off with 150ppm for RO and 100ppm recommendations for tap of potassium silicate.
I will do a proper test of 150PPM potassium silicate and PH down tomorrow. Measure KH at the end. I'm hoping for a significant buffer when I get to 5.8. If not, this is all for nothing.
 
Can be many things… healthy plants and a good environment increase uptake… the more nitrate taken up the more upward drift you see.

The higher the ppm of nutrients the more stability as less impact on the ratios as they are taken up.

The better gas exchange the more co2 is driven off and not accumulated.

The more ammonium taken up by the plant the more of a downward teend you will see. This can be from nutrient sources, decay of plants and microorganisms.

The more bacteria populations in the water the more microorganisms respiration that consumes o2 and releases co2. This can be significant and will be based off individual species food sources.temperature also had a large effect in this area.

There are lots of tiny clues like seeing bacteria blooms which consume lots of o2 and produce lots of co2 and then you can bet it will follow with die and decay leading to more co2 and ammonium which as stated above will lead to a decline in the ph.

Everyone is going to require a different amount of buffering to cover these impacts specifically to their grow… so I usually start off with 150ppm for RO and 100ppm recommendations for tap of potassium silicate.
Yeah 👍 that's why I said potassium hydroxide cause especially at the tail end your simply adding in potassium and a hydroxyl OH-component. ... Skip the silicate... Can make a water molecules instead or it's added oxygen and hydrogen at the roots which I believe are in a dynamic state of charges that's useful for uptake


Would be really cool to find hydroponic or lab grade element solution sensors for the following elements. Then use molar mass and the gleaned information to drive the process though the whole cycle

The million dollar question is if there anything available on the market for such a use



  • Nitrogen (N)
  • Potassium (K)
  • Phosphorus (P)
  • Calcium (Ca)
  • Magnesium (Mg)
  • Sulphur (S)
  • Iron (Fe)
  • Manganese (Mn)
  • Copper (Cu)
  • Zinc (Zn)
  • Molybdate (Mo)
  • Boron (B)
  • Chlorine (Cl)

Even just sensor for the top five could be such a boon of information to analyze
 
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Yeah 👍 that's why I said potassium hydroxide cause especially at the tail end your simply adding in potassium and a hydroxyl OH-component. ... Skip the silicate... Can make a water molecules instead or it's added oxygen and hydrogen at the roots which I believe are in a dynamic state of charges that's useful for uptake


Would be really cool to find hydroponic or lab grade element solution sensors for the following elements. Then use molar mass and the gleaned information to drive the process though the whole cycle

The million dollar question is if there anything available on the market for such a use



  • Nitrogen (N)
  • Potassium (K)
  • Phosphorus (P)
  • Calcium (Ca)
  • Magnesium (Mg)
  • Sulphur (S)
  • Iron (Fe)
  • Manganese (Mn)
  • Copper (Cu)
  • Zinc (Zn)
  • Molybdate (Mo)
  • Boron (B)
  • Chlorine (Cl)
I forget the name of them but @Moe.Red may remember… i talked about them with him… can actually test the levels in the plants from sap
 
Yes there are sap sensors for 4 of those.

I think frank is talking about res sensors. Those are not available or available at a price point I would be willing to invest in.

Holy hell the irony. You need to mortgage the farm for the meters.

Anyone got $2500 laying around somewhere in a hole waiting to be spent? 😆. There deluxe DUAL SENSOR lol. Probably two wrong number half the time


keep it Calibrated for the win. But I suspect it's expensive also
 
Each sensor has a half dozen calibration items for $99 each


My guess is we can find something from China for less cost. Just need to find the right person

It's a lot of money 💰 but the information gleaned can be valuable

Screenshot_20230604-182951.png
 
Would be really cool to make stuff like this affordable for everyone and find a manufacturer that would partner


This could almost be like AI for cannabis 😆

I suspect all those sensors can be built for under $100 each
 
Would be really cool to make stuff like this affordable for everyone and find a manufacturer that would partner


This could almost be like AI for cannabis 😆

I suspect all those sensors can be built for under $100 each
I looked into this hard for a month. These sensors are not available off the shelf to integrate into your own system. I’d probably be better off to do a spectrscopy from a test strip with all the right pads to keep it cheap.
 
I looked into this hard for a month. These sensors are not available off the shelf to integrate into your own system. I’d probably be better off to do a spectrscopy from a test strip with all the right pads to keep it cheap.
Spectrometer would be awesome also. There lots of used equipment for sale from labs and such on eBay but I don't know anything about the upkeep
 
These people have some of these things out of Shanghai

$170 for sulfur, but no specs, no engineering info, and no circuit board to process the reading. By the time you get done, not including labor, you are over the Laqua price.
 
I wonder if something like this could be modified or talk to the manufacturer and switch some of the sensors configuration
CJMCU-4541 MICS-4514 carbon monoxide nitrogen oxygen sensor CO/NO2/H2/NH3/CH4

CHEAP
$19.99

As somebody who builds electronics, I can say unfortunately it does not work that way.
 
Yeah the information would be of limited value IMO anyway. So many variables I believe that can change nutrient uptake


I believe just following what the plants are saying and having a precision corrective response is the ticket
 
an alcohol is an organic compound in which a hydroxyl group is bound to a carbon atom


In microbial electrosynthesis, microorganisms use CO2 and electricity to produce alcohol, for example. How this process works biologically, however, has only been speculated about, until now. Researchers at the Leibniz Institute for Natural Product Research and Infection Biology have now been able to confirm experimentally for the first time that the bacteria use electrons from hydrogen and can produce more chemical substances than previously known. Their research has been published in the journal Green Chemistry.
 
I'm really slacking on these buffer experiments. Gotta find some time.
Complex mix of simple organic acids is how I've approached it Moe.

Citric acid in millimolar levels. (Strong acid) Gabba Amino butic acid (weaker acid) works well at higher levels.. I used both.

Some of the sugars and fruit acids like strawberry preserves... Or raw honey. All of them have set various levels of acidity but the sugars best to ferment beforehand imo then introduce

The real wisdom IMO is finding the right ones that really push flavor and Terps profile, then dialing in the ratio amounts and the when... In the timeline
 
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