Stoney grows Honey Fried Bananas in RDWC SCROG

[Bandit420]

a few days ago i think i found my potassium limits. i've been having an issue with the ph sinking and kept adding KOH on top of what i already had in there i think it was just too much, so i raised the light and did a change out and they seem to be a little better but still not thriving well. i think i want to try a different solution ratio and maybe more N.. right now i'm using about 250ppm of 7-4-10 novagrow and about 60ppm of K buffer and a little floralicious, not much maybe 15ppm of 2-.8-.5

i'm almost out of top off solution, in fact it would all fit in there now without overfilling it so i wanna try something different. what i have ain't jiving!! i'd like to use less buffer and see if i can't get the pH to climb a little. i have a much better handle on that then i did the first go around so i wanna see how much trouble i can get myself into!!! hehe

here are photos to compare a few days ago compared to just now.. old shots first...

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and now today.... (left side - left plant.. right - right!!)

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for now i gave them both a good spritz of foop foliar... its my go to lockout fixer...

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You seem to be liking the Foop stuff.
I saw it was a black friday deal for the whole kit and had it in my cart but it dropped due to going past m,y set spending limit.
I['d really like to give a whole grow chance and see what happens. I really like their pH adjusters.

i learned something important about my rain water. when the water is around the 35° mark it really throws off the ppm meter. it was frustrating me last night and i really thought something was in my water. i thought maybe because we didn't have rain for over forty days and that made it dirty when it did rain.. nope, all just the temperature.

of coarse i learned this after i dumped out 25 gallons of perfectly clean cold rain water!!! hahaha

moving forward with a change out.. i went with just 30% of the potassium that i started with last time. before calmag i am at 20ppm. i am going to double the veg nutes from what i had. and will aim for ph 5.8 to match what they're currently at.

What meter you have?
Mine is Blue Labs truncheon and it's temp range 32*-120* but yeah those lower temps can cause a +-.1EC/+-70ppm inaccurate reading on mine. Now instead of the tank storage outdoors and I have the second tank indoors to keep it around room temp

 

[moe.red]

i learned something important about my rain water. when the water is around the 35° mark it really throws off the ppm meter. it was frustrating me last night and i really thought something was in my water. i thought maybe because we didn't have rain for over forty days and that made it dirty when it did rain.. nope, all just the temperature.

of coarse i learned this after i dumped out 25 gallons of perfectly clean cold rain water!!! hahaha

moving forward with a change out.. i went with just 30% of the potassium that i started with last time. before calmag i am at 20ppm. i am going to double the veg nutes from what i had. and will aim for ph 5.8 to match what they're currently at.

EC probes need to be temp compensated.

I’ll show you what I mean when I head back down.

 

[Stoneyluv]

ou seem to be liking the Foop stuff.
I saw it was a black friday deal for the whole kit and had it in my cart but it dropped due to going past m,y set spending limit.
I['d really like to give a whole grow chance and see what happens. I really like their pH adjusters.

man i am a big fan of that foliar spray from foop... i call it my foop oops fixer!!! whenever i have a weird lockout or def. on a youngin it's my go to. as soon as they have five blades i give them one spritz a day. once they are bigger they can take a few pumps.

it's a game changer product for me. prime sales always have the gallons at a decent price. it's stinky though man!! at first you;re like mmm mint.. yea, then the poopy lingers just after.. hahaha!!!!

What meter you have?
Mine is Blue Labs truncheon and it's temp range 32*-120* but yeah those lower temps can cause a +-.1EC/+-70ppm inaccurate reading on mine. Now instead of the tank storage outdoors and I have the second tank indoors to keep it around room temp

i use blue labs as well. i actually got the EC meter for free on ebay. and bought the ph meter open box for a great deal!

EC probes need to be temp compensated.

I’ll show you what I mean when I head back down.

i just assumed that since it could read the temp that it had an algorithm in it to automatically adjust.. it was crazy the number was 380-450 when i first put it in the barrel, i was like wtf?! i measured right from the hose tap and still high AF... i gave up after dumping a bunch out and cleaning my mixing barrel and trying to filter and few other crazy efforts that kept kicking my ass... i gave up and just went to bed.. next day after the water warmed up to room temp it measured 9 PPM!!!!!!

i lived it... i learned it!!!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

so just after four weeks now i believe we're not much further.. i still have spider mites in this cabinet!! i tool advantage of Mi benificials sales and bought some miles to fight them but it's been three days now and still see a few so i don't think many of the miles were alive and froze to death out at my mailbox that day.

the burning of the leaves stopped once i did the changeout without all the potassium so i'm pretty sure that was it..



i'm still not likeing the new solution either.. ph keeps diving down everyday causing swings and causing stress. i've been keeping them on an IV by daily foliar feeds.





and thats where i'm at... not the worst but certainty not OK.. i'm persistent though and am trying not to react and think about what i do before i just knee jerk it like normal!!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

plants are now six weeks old and still alive.. trying to end the mites and haven't seen any signs since my last update but i've said this before so i'm hopeful!!

still dealing with ph drops all my charts tell me to lower the EC so i've been slowly doing this but doesn't seem to make a difference. i've added close to 30ml of K now in this batch so i gotta be careful how much more up i add but i also can't keep finding my rez at 4.7 either. i added about another 10-15 ml tonight. i'll see where it's at in a couple hours.

 

[GrumpAzz]

You're using Potassium Silicate, right? Agsil even? I feel like with the way the plant uses the silicate, it loses it's ability to act as a buffer. I could be wrong, on that. Have the drops been happening since the last res change? Or did they start happening a while afterwards?

I've also heard that airstones lower the ph with carbonic acid or something like that.

 

[Stoneyluv]

ou're using Potassium Silicate, right? Agsil even?

yes sir, actually i've been using all four of the kinds i have combined. agsil, koh, gh ph up, and armor si.

that fist solution i overdid it trying to bring it up after what Moe said about using the bennies. then when i did the change out after i burned them i cut the total K in half

Have the drops been happening since the last res change?

the other change i made was increasing the veg nutes and this is when the ph diving started.. hind sight i should have noticed this then! so then i did that second changeout and felt i was falling further behind so i up'd the veg nutes even more... i gotta stop thinking i can force feed plants dammit!!!!

so when i raised the EC even more out of whack the problem got even worse... so a little bit ago i pumped half the rez out into the mixing barrel and topped off the rez with plain water and didn't need to adjust the ph. i cut the EC in half.. it's now at 0.7 and ph is 5.8

i'll check it again tomorrow...

I've also heard that airstones lower the ph with carbonic acid or something like that.

i lowered both buckets air just in case.

 

[steamroller]

My understanding of air and water is that air bubbles raise pH only by removing excess CO2 and bringing the water to equilibrium.
There is a limit to how much this works and effects pH.

 

[GrumpAzz]

My understanding of air and water is that air bubbles raise pH only by removing excess CO2 and bringing the water to equilibrium.
There is a limit to how much this works and effects pH.

Yep you're right. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

Carbonic Acid??
I musta been high...

 

[steamroller]

I musta been high...

That covers most of my life from 6th grade~!

 

[Stoneyluv]

i was forced to add the buffer at the same amount i started out with, without the 2ml per gallon of agsil16 i just struggled. i caved and added the rest in yesterday morning and ever since then it's been steady right at 5.8-5.9. it bumped the EC up to 0.8 from adding the K buffer.

plants are already showing sign of less stress in the new growth. so now i need to get back on the bug patrol.. it was friday night when i washed them with 75% strength of jungle rain then washed it all off a few hour later. i didn't see any signs of mites before i did this so i'll get my magnifying glass out tonight and give another look... if i see nothing i will probably hit them with jungle rain gain since this was the least harmful to them out of all the other sprays i tried. although i really thing the capt jacks kicked their ass and the rest has been border control. i really need to get to that wood behind the panda film..

been thinking of making a make shift dwcx2 setup upstairs for a few days to a week and then tear everything down and treat the wood and walls and put a new drip tray i have made for the bottom. i have to almost drain the system to lo lift the buckets enough to slide the tray underneath. for now it's just a piece of panda with tow circles cut out and leaves places for bugs to hide... i've farted around with this long enough and it's time i get serious. its gut wrenching to me when i turn over leaf and see yet another mite!

but if i see nothing tonight i'll go for JR again.. if i do see something (mite or egg) then i will think about using my pyrethrin bomb. i'm really hoping i don't see any.. the JR is simple to use and very easy to wash off later and even wash right through all the clay and roots so no soap sits anywhere but the leaves.

if i see one i might have to start over... i could move them out, contaminate that space too.. clean the room and bring back bugs on the plants and start the problem over. i may be forced to just ditch the plants and clean the room and start over! sucks either way, wait, watch, hope n pray,, or give in and lose what have and still have no guarantee.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Unless your guaranteed to have them gone after a scorched earth approach I’d finish them.

But I would be hunting for how they keep returning. You’ve gone to great lengths to get rid of them but they keep returning. How, from where? How quickly are they showing up once the new plants are introduced? These are the little things that bug the hell out of me. The “what am I missing” crap.

I know you’ll nail it, just hope you catch it sooner.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Man... you have a stockpile of weed and wax, right? If it were me and I wasn't in need of the product, I'd start over. Scorched earth, as you say. This all sounds like a nightmare.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Unless your guaranteed to have them gone after a scorched earth approach I’d finish them.

But I would be hunting for how they keep returning. You’ve gone to great lengths to get rid of them but they keep returning. How, from where? How quickly are they showing up once the new plants are introduced? These are the little things that bug the hell out of me. The “what am I missing” crap.

I know you’ll nail it, just hope you catch it sooner.

i have two theories on how they got back.. one is they're holed up somewhere in my plywood or lumber behind my panda film. number two is i kinda fucked up with the gallon challenge plant, i took that plant out back when i bombed and bleached right before i started this grow, then i put that untreated plant back in the clean room... well a week or so ago when i first saw the mites were back i went to take a photo of that gallon challenge plant for the thread and cut it off. well when i looked it was covered in webs!!! i mean covered!!!

so i believe this is how they came back but there is no way to know for sure.

i could try this again... wipe out all the plants this time, bomb clean and start over. but man if i did that and they still came back i think i'd burn the room down!!!

could it have been a simple fuck up by putting the untreated plant back in? it didn't even have many leaves so i figured they weren't on that plant

Man... you have a stockpile of weed and wax, right? If it were me and I wasn't in need of the product, I'd start over. Scorched earth, as you say. This all sounds like a nightmare.

nah i really don't need any herb from this cabinet at all, the black cabinet produces more than i can even smoke.

thank goodness they're not moving over to the other plants yet.. i've been keeping a close eye on them. all the vents between the two have a covering of material so maybe they can't get through it and i've been lucky to not carry any over on me.

the ideal situation would be to have no plants growing at this time and do a total clean.. it's gonna be three maybe four weeks till the black room is ready for harvest.

i hate giving up on any plants.. this sucks!! plus these beans were gifted to me, the only two i got. so i'm not just disappointing me..
one of my fights is i already cut some leaves out so the plants have bushed out just a bit on the bottoms and now there are more tiny leaves to treat and i know i'm not hitting every square mm on every single leaf, i mean i try... but reality.. i think maybe i'll try the bomb once again and not introduce anything back into the room this time. if the plants don't survive the bomb then i'll start over. i'd bomb anyway even if i took the plants out so i might as well leave them in there. then i bomb and i still have eggs tucked away somewhere and in three weeks this all surfaces again... IDK what to do... i think rational thinking tells me to cull the plants and clean the room! i got at least another 9 -10 hours before i'll even have time to mess with the plants so i have something to think about!!!

BTW, i saw an egg in a quick inspection last night. it was too late at night to start the JR by time i remembered so i hit them both with capt jacks. i think maybe you're right and i should start over.

 

[Stoneyluv]

new plan....



At high concentrations ozone kills spider mites (including eggs) and most other insects. If you previously had a mite outbreak in your room, remove your plants and leave the BIG BLUE plugged in overnight. Unlike chemical sprays, ozone will permeate through everything in your room, and leave nothing behind except pure oxygen.

Spider mites cannot become resistant to ozone, unlike the resistance they have built up to many pesticides. You can repeat treatments in necessary until they are gone. Just make sure to remove plants or perform the treatment between crops, as high ozone concentrations will make them very unhappy!

also found this to be a good read...

https://www.uvonair.com/uploads/upload/files/Ozone-An_Indoor_Garden_Super_Tool_MY_2014.pdf

my ozone generator is a commercial grade unit and should have no problem clouding the cabinet. i will probably have to cull the plants and start over but i feel better about this than sprays and coatings.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Interesting. Looks the size of a small portable heater. How long would it take to do a 10x10 space?

The fact, just based on above, that it kills all/lots of insects and eggs has me interested. Carpenter ants can be a problem here. Had them in a few inside spots. As well as the usual basement type critters that can seasonally get outbreaks.

Close off doors and openings, keep anything living out?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Interesting. Looks the size of a small portable heater. How long would it take to do a 10x10 space?

The fact, just based on above, that it kills all/lots of insects and eggs has me interested. Carpenter ants can be a problem here. Had them in a few inside spots. As well as the usual basement type critters that can seasonally get outbreaks.

Close off doors and openings, keep anything living out?

you could cloud out a 10 x 10 in an hour easy. i originally bought it for mushroom sterilization.

if you're looking to kill stuff than yeah, seal it up. a circulation fan helps...and higher rh kills more airborn bacteria then low rh. but for bugs i don't think that matters.

after a room is totally clouded i don't go back in for at least an hour. if i just wanna kill the smell of smoking a doob in the party room i just run it while i'm in there.. only for like 10 minutes.

20 minutes in front of my forced hot air intake and it makes the whole house smell fresh!!!

it depends on how big the unit is... that big blue company is kinda wimpy at just 1500 mg of ozone an hour, my unit puts out 10000 mg/hour. my mfg says A 150 sq ft space can be completely cleaned in 10 minutes, or more than 6 times per hour.

if you buy one get a fireproof one.. i had two before this one and they both caught fire within a couple years! this one is fireproof and i've had it for almost five years now!!

ozone is heavier than air and sinks so it's better to have the unit up high in a room or good circulation fans.

 

[Zen_seeker]

At $600, probably US, wimpy is still expensive.

I was hoping your portable one was cheaper but now I suspect it’s much more. Portable and much stronger means more $$$ but it sounds like yours is worth it. Share the brand in case it’s up here too?

 

[Stoneyluv]

At $600, probably US, wimpy is still expensive.

I was hoping your portable one was cheaper but now I suspect it’s much more. Portable and much stronger means more $$$ but it sounds like yours is worth it. Share the brand in case it’s up here too?

i know your amazon never comes out the same but ... $90. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D8MC68M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[Zen_seeker]

i know your amazon never comes out the same but ... $90. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D8MC68M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It’s not too bad. But they add duty. About $150 to the door I think.

 

[CannaGranny]

i know your amazon never comes out the same but ... $90. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D8MC68M/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It may be coming out the same quicker than you think, if Trudeau steps down!

 

[Bandit420]

you could cloud out a 10 x 10 in an hour easy. i originally bought it for mushroom sterilization.

if you're looking to kill stuff than yeah, seal it up. a circulation fan helps...and higher rh kills more airborn bacteria then low rh. but for bugs i don't think that matters.

after a room is totally clouded i don't go back in for at least an hour. if i just wanna kill the smell of smoking a doob in the party room i just run it while i'm in there.. only for like 10 minutes.

20 minutes in front of my forced hot air intake and it makes the whole house smell fresh!!!

it depends on how big the unit is... that big blue company is kinda wimpy at just 1500 mg of ozone an hour, my unit puts out 10000 mg/hour. my mfg says A 150 sq ft space can be completely cleaned in 10 minutes, or more than 6 times per hour.

if you buy one get a fireproof one.. i had two before this one and they both caught fire within a couple years! this one is fireproof and i've had it for almost five years now!!

ozone is heavier than air and sinks so it's better to have the unit up high in a room or good circulation fans.

Ozone is what I use on outgoing exhaust in lieu of carbon filters. The gen is up in my crawl space between ceiling and roof. I have another that's more portable I use to disinfect my truck interior and in my sauna when it gets musty.
I've always been nervous about using it though. Like dancing with the devil. It will kill everything without mercy, even plants and pets. I'm not sure if I could seal my room well enough so I'd probably evacuate my home when using it. It's a real deal nuke option

 

[midwestcannaman]

Ozone is what I use on outgoing exhaust in lieu of carbon filters. The gen is up in my crawl space between ceiling and roof. I have another that's more portable I use to disinfect my truck interior and in my sauna when it gets musty.
I've always been nervous about using it though. Like dancing with the devil. It will kill everything without mercy, even plants and pets. I'm not sure if I could seal my room well enough so I'd probably evacuate my home when using it. It's a real deal nuke option

Pretty sure that ozone degrades rubbers, plastics, fabrics and some paints if I remember correctly.

 

[Bandit420]

Pretty sure that ozone degrades rubbers, plastics, fabrics and some paints if I remember correctly.

Wouldn't surprise me at all if it did. I probably don't use it often enough in my truck to notice but I could see it exasperating normal wear and tear of that interior.
For my room exhaust I plugged the duct into an old furnace outlet no longer in use but I should probably climb up in there and make sure the duct hasn't been degraded by it. It's not on 24/7, just a few hours a day when things are extra stinky but the duct is around 4 years old.

I've also used in my storage sheds on everything from silverfish to rats. Stuff is probably more toxic than No Pest Strips

 

[SSgrower]

Groovy grow! SS

 

[Stoneyluv]

It’s not too bad. But they add duty. About $150 to the door I think.

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i guess we should be surprised that it's even available to you! and not a total rip off hehe

It may be coming out the same quicker than you think, if Trudeau steps down!

we'll have to wait and see what these thieves come up with next...

Ozone is what I use on outgoing exhaust in lieu of carbon filters. The gen is up in my crawl space between ceiling and roof. I have another that's more portable I use to disinfect my truck interior and in my sauna when it gets musty.
I've always been nervous about using it though. Like dancing with the devil. It will kill everything without mercy, even plants and pets. I'm not sure if I could seal my room well enough so I'd probably evacuate my home when using it. It's a real deal nuke option

i've been using ozone for a few years and yes it needs to be respected when used. i use it in car interiors all the time but only at 20 minute intervals.

i would have no problem sealing that cabinet, and with my basement not being finished or heated it is sealed pretty tight from the house itself.
when i used those those bug bombs down there i couldn't smell anything at all upstairs. i'm pretty sure i can totally isolate that 4x4 box. my plan was to just run it long enough to cloud it out then let it dissipate for a couple hours and hit it again, maybe do this three or four times i don't know for sure yet, i'm gonna wing it and pay attention to what i'm doing.

believe me if i knew of a better option right now i'd be doing it!

Pretty sure that ozone degrades rubbers, plastics, fabrics and some paints if I remember correctly.

yes it does i have seen this first hand. i plan to remove most of the stuff from the room first. only one thing really concerns me and that the seals i used on the hydro buckets. the material is listed as a copywrite and i'm not exactly sure what their composition is.

ozone is safe with some materials like epdm, teflon, nitrile, silicone, neoprene. anything with a high content of carbon black in them is safe to use.

i believe in moderation it can be useful and not destructive. and at this point i think it might be my best option.

and by all means if anyone has a better way i am all ears!!!!!!

 

[Observer]

My understanding of air and water is that air bubbles raise pH only by removing excess CO2 and bringing the water to equilibrium.
There is a limit to how much this works and effects pH.

Bringing in atmospheric air, through airstones usually drifts the PH overtime from the carbon


Atmospheric CO2: The air we breathe contains CO2. When this air is drawn into your DWC system through airstones, it dissolves into the nutrient solution.

Carbonic Acid Formation: The dissolved CO2 reacts with water to form carbonic acid, which is a weak acid.

pH Decrease: The formation of carbonic acid lowers the pH of the nutrient solution.

 

[Observer]

Yep you're right. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

Carbonic Acid??
I musta been high...

No you were right......I think?

Lol

 

[Stoneyluv]

Bringing in atmospheric air, through airstones usually drifts the PH overtime from the carbon


Atmospheric CO2: The air we breathe contains CO2. When this air is drawn into your DWC system through airstones, it dissolves into the nutrient solution.

Carbonic Acid Formation: The dissolved CO2 reacts with water to form carbonic acid, which is a weak acid.

pH Decrease: The formation of carbonic acid lowers the pH of the nutrient solution.

is the fix less air volume through the stones? or is it more complicated like adding O2?

 

[Observer]

is the fix less air volume through the stones? or is it more complicated like adding O2?

Buffering, monitoring the pH, and large volumes of water hold more steadily/stable.

And maybe it's possible to have too many airstones, beyond a certain point they can't add anymore o2 than what is atmo, anyways.

Besides keeping it at those levels 24/7 otherwise...

 

[Observer]

Al though, my pH would always drift up IME so there's some variable conflicting here

Carbonic (acid) would make it go down.

 

[Stoneyluv]

i'm rethinking the ozone... i need to do more research. data is all over the place and have not read two opinions or studies that agree with each other on any part of it. nobody disuses concentration amounts or times. and most say it does NOT kill the eggs and that the ozone must be applied like a spray and is a three week treatment...

i'm afraid i'm back to square one. with the price of all these sprays and bombs and looking at what this could end up costing me i'm now seriously looking into how much four sheets of luan will cost me and i already have the 2x2's and am now thinking of just burning the whole grow cabinet to ash and just slap up another one. maybe about four hours of my time and cost of the plywood.

 

[Observer]

i'm rethinking the ozone... i need to do more research. data is all over the place and have not read two opinions or studies that agree with each other on any part of it. nobody disuses concentration amounts or times. and most say it does NOT kill the eggs and that the ozone must be applied like a spray and is a three week treatment...

i'm afraid i'm back to square one. with the price of all these sprays and bombs and looking at what this could end up costing me i'm now seriously looking into how much four sheets of luan will cost me and i already have the 2x2's and am now thinking of just burning the whole grow cabinet to ash and just slap up another one. maybe about four hours of my time and cost of the plywood.

Just get a 2v4 tent?

 

[Observer]

This the one I have, I've bought this one twice, second time was to replace the first one from when I couldn't grow anymore and left it at buddies

 

[moe.red]

This is thrips right? Sorry I smoked since I read this thread

 

[GrumpAzz]

This is thrips right? Sorry I smoked since I read this thread

Two-spotters I believe

 

[moe.red]

Two-spotters I believe

So spider mites?

 

[moe.red]

I’d use predatory mites or nematodes

 

[Stoneyluv]

Two-spotters I believe

So spider mites?

View attachment 83853

yes these are the ones i have... been trying to get a photo but haven't been able to.

i've tried a few of the popular methods: poisons, predators, soap. everything has kept them at bay but not been able to stop them from coming back.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I’d use predatory mites or nematodes

View attachment 83855

right now the temps here are in the twenties everytime i've ordered thm and i think they're dead by time i get them. i've bought them a few times from different places and don't see any movement when they arrive. i so want this to be my method i'm just struggling to acquire them during the winter. next day air makes them cost $50 and they show up frozen.