Stoney grows Honey Fried Bananas in RDWC SCROG

[moe.red]

Ok Stoney this is a strange one.

Coupla points - fulvic and humic are not the same thing but very related. Humic has larger molecule size so not as easy to transport within the plant. That said the Mr series products contain the same stuff. Not generally true for other brands.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 75* at this point. 78 is fine too. Lower temp will cause it to grow more slowly just like backing the light off does but would not induce imbalances.

Glad you got no bugs. It does have me scratching my head tho. To me those leaves I posted are not taco.



Those are taco. ^^^ (not Stoney’s plant)

This is your plant



From this angle it looks like one blade has its edges folded over not the whole blade being cupped ,and the blade next to it is flat. That screams to me something is acting on individual fan blades which typically would mean a pest.

Ph being largely steady with slight increase is good.

When I get to a big screen in a few hours I’ll take a much closer look. This one is a puzzle

Edit call me this afternoon if ya want. This top off should be strategic

@Aqua Man any ideas?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Coupla points - fulvic and humic are not the same thing but very related. Humic has larger molecule size so not as easy to transport within the plant. That said the Mr series products contain the same stuff. Not generally true for other brands.

i understand Moe, and i agree with ya. i didn't buy the mr humic on purpose, i thought it was mr fulvic till i opened the box and realized i ordered the wrong one, then was cool with it once i realized it was the same solution as what i wanted. i'm not positive but i think it has fulvic, humic, and a some aminos as well.

the only reason i went with it is because i stopped using the floralicious because it was messing with my ph and causing it to sink all the time. i took that out of the equation and the ph was so much easier to manage and i only needed half the amount of agsil16 and buffer K. and also OLDCRO was saying how the new recipe of floralicious didn't contain fulvic acid anymore and then a few minutes later i'm reading on Nesta's page how he really liked the mr fulvic and that made me remember Grump and other discussing it as well so i figured why not.

long story but thats the history of it all..

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 75* at this point. 78 is fine too. Lower temp will cause it to grow more slowly just like backing the light off does but would not induce imbalances.

i kinda figured and also when i was struggling to keep the rh up i thought the lower temp would be better for them anyway. i really thought this was all caused by low rh. but it's been more than a week since it's been over 60% and two sets of leaves are since then and even the new leaves are showing signs.

rom this angle it looks like one blade has its edges folded over not the whole blade being cupped ,and the blade next to it is flat. That screams to me something is acting on individual fan blades which typically would mean a pest.

you're right Moe, the serrated tips are curling up and bending in flat. the center vein is not creasing and the sides and not pulling closed like a taco leaf.

it starts with the serrations at the back wide part of the leaves then works its way towards the tip.

Ph being largely steady with slight increase is good.

i'm glad we didn't jump to a rez change because this honestly has been the best i've ever gotten it to date.

When I get to a big screen in a few hours I’ll take a much closer look. This one is a puzzle

thanks for your time man!!!! one other detail, this didn't start happening till the beginning of week three. then took three or four days until the tips died.

when i was inspecting them the underside of the plants seemed "fuzzier" than normal. almost reminded me of mullein leaves. not bad fuzzy but just softer and different texture than my soil plants at the same age.

 

[Observer]

Ok Stoney this is a strange one.

Coupla points - fulvic and humic are not the same thing but very related. Humic has larger molecule size so not as easy to transport within the plant. That said the Mr series products contain the same stuff. Not generally true for other brands.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with 75* at this point. 78 is fine too. Lower temp will cause it to grow more slowly just like backing the light off does but would not induce imbalances.

Glad you got no bugs. It does have me scratching my head tho. To me those leaves I posted are not taco.

View attachment 90717

Those are taco. ^^^ (not Stoney’s plant)

This is your plant

View attachment 90718

From this angle it looks like one blade has its edges folded over not the whole blade being cupped ,and the blade next to it is flat. That screams to me something is acting on individual fan blades which typically would mean a pest.

Ph being largely steady with slight increase is good.

When I get to a big screen in a few hours I’ll take a much closer look. This one is a puzzle

Edit call me this afternoon if ya want. This top off should be strategic

@Aqua Man any ideas?

i just dont see how that isnt the start of tacoing from either low rh and high PPFD

something burned them

ur rh was fine once you got back to 60 but you were running 500 ppfd over those little ones?

the very top new growth looks great though.

 

[Observer]

could it be DO deficient?

 

[Observer]

i just wanna figure it out, i hate not being able to.

 

[Observer]

other thing is if it dried up at all somewhere, or if the root connection was hampered at some point.

 

[moe.red]

Hey stoney is this stalk OK or is that a little rot I see?



Coco looks very wet. Cotyledons look super. If that mix was short on N they would be brown.

 

[Observer]

Hey stoney is this stalk OK or is that a little rot I see?



Coco looks very wet. Cotyledons look super. If that mix was short on N they would be brown.

nice eye on the stem, didnt see that but the next thing i saw was how soggy this is






View attachment 90770

 

[Stoneyluv]

i just dont see how that isnt the start of tacoing from either low rh and high PPFD

we'll see soon enough, raising the light is the only change i made esides the one foliar spray of the right plant.

something burned them

i wonder if they just destroyed their cells from curling so agressive?

ur rh was fine once you got back to 60 but you were running 500 ppfd over those little ones?

nah, not the whole time. i started out at 10% and added ten at the end of each week. i should be at 40% right now but in holding pattern due to this, i've grown more seedlings than i can count with this light and i'm being very easy and conservative on them right now.

i'm not convinced it's a light issue, but if it clears up in the next few days then i'll be wrong...

the very top new growth looks great though.

it's been like this too.. new growth looks good then next set starts curling.

other thing is if it dried up at all somewhere, or if the root connection was hampered at some point.

View attachment 90767

maybe a 1% chance but these had roots hit the water in a few days and didn't have a single hicup with the system or power outage or anything. i have graphs that are rock steady.

Hey stoney is this stalk OK or is that a little rot I see?

View attachment 90769

Coco looks very wet. Cotyledons look super. If that mix was short on N they would be brown.

with a deep sigh of relief, NO.. not sure what that discoloration is though.. i dug all around it and tried to get a better pic...



.
.

these leaves were nice and flat last night... this is the very start of the curl...





edit>> you can see how even the newest growth is showing the earliest sign.. six o'clock on that photo shows it^

nice eye on the stem, didnt see that but the next thing i saw was how soggy this is


View attachment 90771



View attachment 90770

it may look that way but i just checked to confirm... damp but not wet, this is where i wanna be right?

 

[Observer]

little antagonist somewhere

 

[Observer]

leads me back to the nutrient ratio or water source

something is out of balance or something "caustic" is around

 

[Observer]

Could try to increase you're floragrow ppm slightly, see what moe and aqua say

 

[Observer]

Pathogen?

 

[Stoneyluv]

little antagonist somewhere

freakin shenanigans i tell ya!!!

leads me back to the nutrient ratio or water source

something is out of balance or something "caustic" is around

thats why i started to foliar spray the smaller worse looking one to see if anything changes over the next couple days.

Could try to increase you're floragrow ppm slightly, see what moe and aqua say

i haven't put up the Aqua signal yet... was hoping it would be something dumb that i was doing and wouldn't need to bug him.

Pathogen?

bird flu... idk...

 

[Observer]

If you're foliar spraying the ones that look bad, and they get better they might need to increase the ppm?

Which doesn't make sense though because smoke is flowering big plants in 400ppm but that's because they are sitting comfortable with their health(?) and the available nutrients are right there when needed though.....

Leading me to think again ratio or something caustic

 

[Stoneyluv]

If you're foliar spraying the ones that look bad, and they get better they might need to increase the ppm?

if not to raise but to change, that foliar spray is great for deficiencies and lock outs. i call it my foop oops fixer!! and if it gets worse then i didn't waste a lot or hurt both plants trying.

Which doesn't make sense though because smoke is flowering big plants in 400ppm but that's because they are sitting comfortable with their health(?) and the available nutrients are right there when needed though.....

and on top of it he's on a 700 scale!!

Leading me to think again ratio or something caustic

it's def not out of the equation. and if it's either one a dumping and cleaning is in order. it wouldn't be that hard to do.

 

[Observer]

if not to raise but to change, that foliar spray is great for deficiencies and lock outs. i call it my foop oops fixer!! and if it gets worse then i didn't waste a lot or hurt both plants trying.

and on top of it he's on a 700 scale!!

thats important, maybe, 120ppm difference. and the way its measured

it's def not out of the equation. and if it's either one a dumping and cleaning is in order. it wouldn't be that hard to do.

 

[moe.red]

What's new Stoney? Any changes?

 

[Stoneyluv]

What's new Stoney? Any changes?

still the coarse, slowly growing, still curling, and still burning. both ph and ec have slightly dropped over the past week.





do you think it's time for drain/clean/remix new solution?

 

[moe.red]

Any potential for contamination in the water? Any chemicals or herbicide or anything you can think of? PVC solvent? Chiller disintegrating? Did you do any work on the system?

Coco is pretty wet netpots are not touching water?

I’ve seen nute imbalances cause a lot of weird shit but not like this. This feels like a contamination or pathogen. But I’ve been wrong a lot just ask my wife. Easier to count the times I’m right.

 

[Observer]

Any potential for contamination in the water? Any chemicals or herbicide or anything you can think of? PVC solvent? Chiller disintegrating? Did you do any work on the system?

Coco is pretty wet netpots are not touching water?

I’ve seen nute imbalances cause a lot of weird shit but not like this.

This feels like a contamination or pathogen. But I’ve been wrong a lot just ask my wife. Easier to count the times I’m right.

about the only other thing i can think of

 

[steamroller]

Can you feel heat if you place your hand between the heater and plants?
Trying to keep it simple. Occam's razor.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Any potential for contamination in the water? Any chemicals or herbicide or anything you can think of? PVC solvent? Chiller disintegrating? Did you do any work on the system?

Coco is pretty wet netpots are not touching water?

I’ve seen nute imbalances cause a lot of weird shit but not like this. This feels like a contamination or pathogen. But I’ve been wrong a lot just ask my wife. Easier to count the times I’m right.

there's a possibility on the chems.. from when i bombed/bleached/sprayed for like a month straight. i didn't flush or sterilize after that. i covered the buckets and bombed... it's possible some got in, the lids weren't perfectly sealed. i had hoped since the air stones were going nothing could get in.

i want to carefully dig back on the coco more and make sure i'm not dampening them off or choking them out somehow. i didn't pack it in there but they seem to be almost showing those symptoms.

about the only other thing i can think of

this is where it at by this point i think.. so many other bases have been covered.

like i said i just want to carefully scoop back some coco and get a good look at the stem down to the root base.

and if nothing looks odd i think it's time for the solution swap.

View attachment 90969
Can you feel heat if you place your hand between the heater and plants?
Trying to keep it simple. Occam's razor.

no, when it's on you can put your hand right in the fins and hold it there, i'm guessing 90° right on the metal.

 

[steamroller]

there's a possibility on the chems.. from when i bombed/bleached/sprayed for like a month straight. i didn't flush or sterilize after that. i covered the buckets and bombed... it's possible some got in, the lids weren't perfectly sealed. i had hoped since the air stones were going nothing could get in.

The air pump would have actually drawn the air into the water if the pump was in the same room as the bombs.

i want to carefully dig back on the coco more and make sure i'm not dampening them off or choking them out somehow. i didn't pack it in there but they seem to be almost showing those symptoms.

Root issues could definitely the issue. See if these guys suggest H2O2 or the like [Hydroguard].
I think the coco could hold more moisture than the clay balls do.

 

[Stoneyluv]

The air pump would have actually drawn the air into the water if the pump was in the same room as the bombs.

the pump was in the lung room but that still doesn't guarantee some bomb cloud didn't get in or was completely purged out.

Root issues could definitely the issue. See if these guys suggest H2O2 or the like [Hydroguard].
I think the coco could hold more moisture than the clay balls do.

i'll dig a bunch out and take some pics of the tap root. i'll give it all a good whiff too.. sometimes root problems can be smelled.

 

[steamroller]

This is from one of the diagnostic links I posted in the charts section way back.

How to Identify & Fix Cannabis Root Problems with Pics!

Root problems can cause wilting, drooping, nutrient issues, spots & other strange symptoms. Learn the common root problems and how to treat & prevent them.

www.growweedeasy.com

Bottom of the page addresses hydro.

 

[Observer]

""This seedling was being grown in pure perlite, which is not a suitable growing medium for cannabis, and as a result the roots were not getting the proper levels of air and water. This seedling needs to be transplanted to soil or coco (or even into hydro) in order to get better"

this is just straight false though, ive grown plenty in pure perlite with no issues.

 

[Stoneyluv]

This is from one of the diagnostic links I posted in the charts section way back.

How to Identify & Fix Cannabis Root Problems with Pics!

Root problems can cause wilting, drooping, nutrient issues, spots & other strange symptoms. Learn the common root problems and how to treat & prevent them.

www.growweedeasy.com

Bottom of the page addresses hydro.

""This seedling was being grown in pure perlite, which is not a suitable growing medium for cannabis, and as a result the roots were not getting the proper levels of air and water. This seedling needs to be transplanted to soil or coco (or even into hydro) in order to get better"

this is just straight false though, ive grown plenty in pure perlite with no issues.

i dug out the best i could till i saw roots and didn't want to break any.. i don't see or smell anything foul..





i noticed the top of my elbow had gunk on it that wasn't there before. not sure if that means anything,, i felt the bottom and the rez and it was squeaky clean, no slime.

 

[Stoneyluv]

like the poor plant below (this was caused by poor drainage and plant was overwatered, leading to a pretty severe case of root problems):

that looks kinda like mine^^

could mine be lack of O2 or excess of co2 in my rootzone?
i'm going to turn my bubbles up...

 

[Stoneyluv]

i also just learned that my water temp probe is off a few degrees. i used a trusted probe and it was 74.6°. i lowered it three degrees along with turning up the air bubbles.

 

[Observer]

like the poor plant below (this was caused by poor drainage and plant was overwatered, leading to a pretty severe case of root problems):

that looks kinda like mine^^

could mine be lack of O2 or excess of co2 in my rootzone?
i'm going to turn my bubbles up...

Don't think it would hurt, and can't rule that out yet either

If this cycle continues after that, rezSet (?), after reading about all the bug bombing you did lol

 

[moe.red]

i dug out the best i could till i saw roots and didn't want to break any.. i don't see or smell anything foul..


View attachment 90971
View attachment 90972

i noticed the top of my elbow had gunk on it that wasn't there before. not sure if that means anything,, i felt the bottom and the rez and it was squeaky clean, no slime.

View attachment 90973

That does not look like root rot to me.

The junk on the elbow looks like bits of coco fell thru the pot. Can you identify?

That is plenty of bubbling. But I agree lack of dissolved o2 will cause lots of symptoms just like overwatering soil. I’m just not seeing how with that much bubbling and pumping going on.

Is it just me or is that water dark as root beer?

What we have here is systemic failure. Many different symptoms. Something that is poisonous to the plant could do this. Lack of an essential element like o2 or co2 or inability to move water up the stalk could cause this. Roundup kills by stopping protein production for example.

If you do not have root rot
If you have good water chemistry and good do
If the environment is correct
What’s left is some kind of contamination or pathogen stopping one or more plant process needed to be healthy.

If there is contamination and it is still happening swapping out the res is not a long term solution. If the contamination is not happening any more it might help.

 

[steamroller]

Lets get @Aqua Man and @smoke in on this.
First post with pics is 180.

 

[Aqua Man]

Lets get @Aqua Man and @smoke in on this.
First post with pics is 180.

Ok read a bit and pics give me a few initial thoughts, the leaves curling that tight and far up the petiole kinda say russet mites but its lacking the total canoeing of the rest of the leaf.

Root infection or damage can cause a very similar ration in leaves. However they physically look fine and have 0 concerns of root rot.

Heat/light/wind combination stress will absolutely show these signs.

What is the actual leaf temp?

What is your fan placement and is it blowing directly on plants?

What is the ppfd of that blurple that is 18” away? Also how many watts and what power setting is it at?

100% Environmental conditions sound good if accurate. Using leaf temp for VPD?

Has anything been sprayed on the plant? In the room? Or anywhere that can be introduced through the intake? Eg cleaner like windex, pledge etc

 

[Aqua Man]

Its definitely not environmental like co2 (will cause drooping and transpiration issues) as will VPD. Those are good.

Unlikely its nutrient related (if it was magnesium only the serrated tips would spike but thats not the only thing that causes that)

Definitely not root rot but possibly the roots may be getting beat up by sprayers or to much flow/agitation although very unlikely without seeing physical damage and infection set in

 

[steamroller]

In short we are considering the water source possibly being contaminated when the room was bombed.
Stoney how does the same genetic in soil look now for compare?

 

[Aqua Man]

In short we are considering the water source possibly being contaminated when the room was bombed.
Stoney how does the same genetic in soil look now for compare?

Possibility… how ling ago? If longer than a week unlikely as the damage would show decay and definitely a noticeable shedding of roots or damage.

If very recently then definitely possible but will also show decay soon if its the case.

That blurple is my number 1 concern as of now with or without possible combined wind stress

 

[steamroller]

Bombed before the grow was started.
In my head I kept remembering that blurples are much more 'powerful' than full spectrum lights.
I think we even have a thread about PAR differences of the two, but Stoney has used these lights for long time.

 

[Aqua Man]

Bombed before the grow was started.
In my head I kept remembering that blurples are much more 'powerful' than full spectrum lights.
I think we even have a thread about PAR differences of the two, but Stoney has used these lights for long time.

100% where my concern is right now brother. And direct wind will exacerbate the heat stress it causes at the leaf

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok tried to find the light and i think its a california lights works 550.

If so these babies are being cooked. Manufactures recommendations are always too high and here is a chart they give.