Stoney grows Honey Fried Bananas in RDWC SCROG

[Observer]

thanks, good to know it's things i have on hand if needed and nothing special.



i'm sorry guys it was just some coco..

https://imgur.com/a/Iynqiu3

i'd like to go over that with you guys.. so if i do a full change out my plan was:

25 gallons rain water 9ppm

agsil 16 mixed per mfg @ 2ml per gal added
also 10% KOH @ 1ml per gallon
the total buffer normally gets me to 60ppm
then immediately add enough ph down to get me just under 7.0

then after 15-30 minutes of mixing i add 25ml of calimagic

then i add nova grow, i haven't determined the amount yet. Gh chart suggests 4ml/gal for 800 ppm, i was thinking of going half that at just under 2ml/gal and aim for my entire solution to be 400ppm. i'm at 300ppm right now.

then the mr humic (whatever the recommended dose is, i don't remember off the top of my head)

and lastly 12ml of each orca and king crab

once all mixed i check the ph and adjust. most times it's real close or right at 5.8 once there i pump into the rez.



there is no foul smell whatsoever. i have some of this on hand > https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/enzyme-powder/ could i use that?

whether i do a change out or not my rez is about ready for a top off. so if this problem is environment then i need to at least start the top off measurements in a couple days.

.

so is it just me or do they look better today? seems to have more vigor?

View attachment 91149View attachment 91151
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if nothing i don't see any leaf curl at all on the newest set, first time thats happened... tune in tomorrow..

Thanks everybody!

was that spectral ratio cooking them with combined environment of not being able to handle the light?

lol

 

[moe.red]

so pretty much everything i said before moe and aqua lol

Yes you are the king!

 

[Observer]

Yes you are the king!

Oof

My bad

Yk I learned from yall. Lol

 

[Aqua Man]

it was that armor si that wasn't working well. once you had me get away from that it's been much better. ph is about the only thing i don't have an issue with anymore.

after i got more comfortable with it i made another test batch with that armor si and it was a total failure yet again.



the fan has been off, well last night i put it back on setting 1 and pointed it up at the ceiling to move the humidity and heat around. no wind on the plants at all.

i just turned up the heat to 79 this should keep it right at 80.

and once they recover do you think i can start to add more light? just a little?
i mean man i just got another light to put in there!!!!! there's gonna be two of those 550's in there just like in my other cabinet!! not maybe, it's gonna happen. i already have the light...

i'm gonna need it for flowering, one is not gonna be enough.

i won't overdo it.. i understand. but there is a clear reason on why one plant is smaller than the other and thats the light placement. it's not centered correctly over the buckets and the left plant gets the sweet spot. soon they will both have a sweet spot!!!

i know you're shaking your head at me right now... hahaha

Nah your all good bro. As for the light just play by ear. See how they look after 5 days then if you post a pic i can look at leaf orientation.

Your ideal leaf temps are around 75f so see where this takes you and go from there

 

[Stoneyluv]

was that spectral ratio cooking them with combined environment of not being able to handle the light?

lol

possibly but more so a concern for the low leaf temps causing slow viscosity within the cells.

lowered the light intensity and raised the temps. in holding pattern to see if it goes away..

Nah your all good bro. As for the light just play by ear. See how they look after 5 days then if you post a pic i can look at leaf orientation.

Your ideal leaf temps are around 75f so see where this takes you and go from there

i didn;t measure the temps on the soil plants yet.. i bet they're much warmer. once the lights hit 50% power the heater doesn't need to run. for some reason i don't mind paying for light power, heater power feels like a rip off!! haha

i'll get some close up later tonight and see how they look. right now i don't see any curling.

so what do you think caused the burning? was this just slow metabolism and thick fluids that the leaf just couldn't provide for itself?

 

[Observer]

once the lights hit 50% power the heater doesn't need to run. for some reason i don't mind paying for light power, heater power feels like a rip off!! haha

well....you could bring the light closer to plant to keep the leaf temps up higher, and just turn the PPFD down slightly to match the difference...but more adjusting and balancing...

i'll get some close up later tonight and see how they look. right now i don't see any curling.

so what do you think caused the burning? was this just slow metabolism and thick fluids that the leaf just couldn't provide for itself?

 

[Observer]

possibly but more so a concern for the low leaf temps causing slow viscosity within the cells.

lowered the light intensity and raised the temps. in holding pattern to see if it goes away..

one way i see it, higher ppfd is more energy to the plants, therefore they may need to pull more nutrients, might not be able to if the variables that dictate nutrient uptake are hampered.

 

[Aqua Man]

possibly but more so a concern for the low leaf temps causing slow viscosity within the cells.

lowered the light intensity and raised the temps. in holding pattern to see if it goes away..



i didn;t measure the temps on the soil plants yet.. i bet they're much warmer. once the lights hit 50% power the heater doesn't need to run. for some reason i don't mind paying for light power, heater power feels like a rip off!! haha

i'll get some close up later tonight and see how they look. right now i don't see any curling.

so what do you think caused the burning? was this just slow metabolism and thick fluids that the leaf just couldn't provide for itself?

The wind mostly

 

[moe.red]

See how they look after 5 days then if you post a pic i can look at leaf orientation.

Your ideal leaf temps are around 75f so see where this takes you and go from there

Some of my best grows had the leaves praying.

I like to push things. But results like Stoney is getting are common if I go too far in one way or another.

@Stoneyluv I promise you can use that light to its full potential if we get this dialed back in.

Tell me about the genetics. Have you grown this before?

Your roots are too small to get the full hydro advantage. If this were my grow I’d be focused on root growth once you are happy you are back on the fairway. If everything is back on point the root growth should outpace the green growth at this stage. If it does not something needs tweaking. Daily pics of roots would be helpful.

Since your ph has been so stable additional bubbling could not hurt. I’ll also pack up and send you that do probe tomorrow. You will need do calibration solution I’ll send you an Amazon link when I get to pc.

Res temp of 72* and max do for your altitude is the goal. If your Bennie’s load contains fungi too that’s preferred. Pretty amazing the symbiosis if you never looked up what that does. What is your elevation?

I know paying for heat sux but I’d push the tent up to 80. That will make them drink

How is your co2 level? I’m assuming lung room around 400?

At this point in veg I would set to 800 and head up to 1200 in flower. Not sure if you have co2 but if so on healthy plants in flower you can use every bit of that light you have there. I run maxed out most of the time in flower. Then you won’t need any heat your problem will be humidity and cooling it down lol.

I’m thinking it’s time to cull those questionable leaves at the bottom.

I’m a little concerned you have too much k. koh and pot sil and



Feels highly unbalanced to me. Let me think on that a minute.

 

[moe.red]

Btw getting mine back online rn

 

[ninjadip]

You can test this on the bench.

Put some RO/res water in a beaker.

Add agsil. PH will shoot up. From what I have measured in RO it is north of 10.

If you add nutrients to this high PH solution and wait 5 minutes you will see all kinds of nute precipitation at the bottom of the beaker.


The corollary to this is if you add potassium silicate at full strength to a running res, the water will immediately get cloudy where you are pouring it in. This is precipitation forming. So don't do that - any agsil you add to a running system needs to be significantly dilute.

It's funny when knowledge explains reality..

This cloudiness just happened to me for the first time last rez change... Saw it when adding nutes to the mix... And probably because I had a lot of silica in there following the ppm chart aqua shared with me.

I'll be changing the res this weekend and following this new step. It's my fault for not asking what that was last weekend..

@moe.red do all nutes precipitate at the same rate in this scenario?

@Stoneyluv thanks man for letting me get that knowledge here in your thread lol

 

[moe.red]

so what do you think caused the burning? was this just slow metabolism and thick fluids that the leaf just couldn't provide for itself?

Starting to think k overdose.




K fights with everything

 

[moe.red]

It's funny when knowledge explains reality..

This cloudiness just happened to me for the first time last rez change... Saw it when adding nutes to the mix... And probably because I had a lot of silica in there following the ppm chart aqua shared with me.

I'll be changing the res this weekend and following this new step. It's my fault for not asking what that was last weekend..

@moe.red do all nutes precipitate at the same rate in this scenario?

@Stoneyluv thanks man for letting me get that knowledge here in your thread lol

No metals fall out first. They are picky.

 

[ninjadip]

No metals fall out first. They are picky.

So micro nutrients basically?

 

[Aqua Man]

Some of my best grows had the leaves praying.

I like to push things. But results like Stoney is getting are common if I go too far in one way or another.

@Stoneyluv I promise you can use that light to its full potential if we get this dialed back in.

Tell me about the genetics. Have you grown this before?

Your roots are too small to get the full hydro advantage. If this were my grow I’d be focused on root growth once you are happy you are back on the fairway. If everything is back on point the root growth should outpace the green growth at this stage. If it does not something needs tweaking. Daily pics of roots would be helpful.

Since your ph has been so stable additional bubbling could not hurt. I’ll also pack up and send you that do probe tomorrow. You will need do calibration solution I’ll send you an Amazon link when I get to pc.

Res temp of 72* and max do for your altitude is the goal. If your Bennie’s load contains fungi too that’s preferred. Pretty amazing the symbiosis if you never looked up what that does. What is your elevation?

I know paying for heat sux but I’d push the tent up to 80. That will make them drink

How is your co2 level? I’m assuming lung room around 400?

At this point in veg I would set to 800 and head up to 1200 in flower. Not sure if you have co2 but if so on healthy plants in flower you can use every bit of that light you have there. I run maxed out most of the time in flower. Then you won’t need any heat your problem will be humidity and cooling it down lol.

I’m thinking it’s time to cull those questionable leaves at the bottom.

I’m a little concerned you have too much k. koh and pot sil and

View attachment 91312

Feels highly unbalanced to me. Let me think on that a minute.

Nute ratios look good to me… i agree praying is good to a point. Ideally i look for the top 3 node to have leaves slightly V shaped and the lower flat. This seems to be about my limits before light stress. With co2

 

[moe.red]

Nute ratios look good to me… i agree praying is good to a point. Ideally i look for the top 3 node to have leaves slightly V shaped and the lower flat. This seems to be about my limits before light stress. With co2

You used to run the Diablo 650 right? And sf 7000?

 

[Stoneyluv]

well....you could bring the light closer to plant to keep the leaf temps up higher, and just turn the PPFD down slightly to match the difference...but more adjusting and balancing...

one way i see it, higher ppfd is more energy to the plants, therefore they may need to pull more nutrients, might not be able to if the variables that dictate nutrient uptake are hampered.

i just got done moving the light and changing the spectrum and power so i'm gonna let this ride till i feel more comfortable changig it again at least a couple days anyway..

I like to push things. But results like Stoney is getting are common if I go too far in one way or another.

@Stoneyluv I promise you can use that light to its full potential if we get this dialed back in.

i'm confident, i let horsepower fly on the first grow when they were in flower, i just gotta have patience.

Tell me about the genetics. Have you grown this before?

no, but a few peeps here have, G$ has.

our roots are too small to get the full hydro advantage. If this were my grow I’d be focused on root growth once you are happy you are back on the fairway. If everything is back on point the root growth should outpace the green growth at this stage. If it does not something needs tweaking. Daily pics of roots would be helpful.

i was hoping for better roots Moe, it was the #1 goal this grow and it's better than last time with the hydroten but this isn't good enough. i have this coming tomorrow...

ince your ph has been so stable additional bubbling could not hurt. I’ll also pack up and send you that do probe tomorrow. You will need do calibration solution I’ll send you an Amazon link when I get to pc.

yeah i opened up all the valves a couple days ago.. it's running four stones so it's not over agitative at all.

es temp of 72* and max do for your altitude is the goal. If your Bennie’s load contains fungi too that’s preferred. Pretty amazing the symbiosis if you never looked up what that does. What is your elevation?

i'm just under 1k feet, like 960 or something like that.

know paying for heat sux but I’d push the tent up to 80. That will make them drink

i understand, already accepted it! turned it up earlier and running right at 80 now. giving it a few hours to stabilize and check the rest and get some pics too.

How is your co2 level? I’m assuming lung room around 400?

yeah it's low, maybe better than 400.. i don't remember. i go put my meter in there now..

At this point in veg I would set to 800 and head up to 1200 in flower. Not sure if you have co2 but if so on healthy plants in flower you can use every bit of that light you have there. I run maxed out most of the time in flower. Then you won’t need any heat your problem will be humidity and cooling it down lol.

i don't have any source of co2, what i got is what i got for now..

I’m thinking it’s time to cull those questionable leaves at the bottom.

i wanted to ask if it's okay to do that.. i'll trim em up now!!

It's funny when knowledge explains reality..

This cloudiness just happened to me for the first time last rez change... Saw it when adding nutes to the mix... And probably because I had a lot of silica in there following the ppm chart aqua shared with me.

I'll be changing the res this weekend and following this new step. It's my fault for not asking what that was last weekend..

@moe.red do all nutes precipitate at the same rate in this scenario?

@Stoneyluv thanks man for letting me get that knowledge here in your thread lol

we're all learning man.. your plants obviously look better than mine so i'll suck up any knowledge i can!!

Starting to think k overdose.

View attachment 91322


K fights with everything

do you think i'm adding to much potassium from the start?

do you know what a good starting ppm of K would be? (considering i'm adding about 200 ppm of nova grow)

 

[moe.red]

Interesting on the cold tolerance.

K has a direct connection to stomata. Wind, low temp and loss of control of your ability to move water thru the plant sounds like a bad combo.

 

[Stoneyluv]

View attachment 91325

Interesting on the cold tolerance.

K has a direct connection to stomata. Wind, low temp and loss of control of your ability to move water thru the plant sounds like a bad combo.

wow it looks to have a direct connection with everything i'm experiencing.

i had small brown spots and yellowing too.. you add up the high K, bright light, fan wind, and cold and all together it could be the disaster.

i'm gonna go tak pics now and put my co2 monitor in there..

 

[moe.red]

i just got done moving the light and changing the spectrum and power so i'm gonna let this ride till i feel more comfortable changig it again at least a couple days anyway..



i'm confident, i let horsepower fly on the first grow when they were in flower, i just gotta have patience.



no, but a few peeps here have, G$ has.



i was hoping for better roots Moe, it was the #1 goal this grow and it's better than last time with the hydroten but this isn't good enough. i have this coming tomorrow...

yeah i opened up all the valves a couple days ago.. it's running four stones so it's not over agitative at all.



i'm just under 1k feet, like 960 or something like that.



i understand, already accepted it! turned it up earlier and running right at 80 now. giving it a few hours to stabilize and check the rest and get some pics too.



yeah it's low, maybe better than 400.. i don't remember. i go put my meter in there now..



i don't have any source of co2, what i got is what i got for now..



i wanted to ask if it's okay to do that.. i'll trim em up now!!



we're all learning man.. your plants obviously look better than mine so i'll suck up any knowledge i can!!



do you think i'm adding to much potassium from the start?

do you know what a good starting ppm of K would be? (considering i'm adding about 200 ppm of nova grow)

all sounds good man.

Healthy growing plants like high k. On a target mix of 300 ppm about a third could be k. I like it closer to 60 k and 250 ppm total when they are young tho. But it’s harder to overfeed than underfeed k.

If you get them really drinking lower ppm is better. Think of the way smoke does it.

I use gh flora so I have 3 bottles to your 2 or 1 really at this stage. I sure hope that mix is right because I don’t see an easy way to change your ratios other than dropping the potassium silicate and koh.

 

[steamroller]

I said K but had it the wrong way.

 

[Stoneyluv]

all sounds good man.

Healthy growing plants like high k. On a target mix of 300 ppm about a third could be k. I like it closer to 60 k and 250 ppm total when they are young tho. But it’s harder to overfeed than underfeed k.

If you get them really drinking lower ppm is better. Think of the way smoke does it.

I use gh flora so I have 3 bottles to your 2 or 1 really at this stage. I sure hope that mix is right because I don’t see an easy way to change your ratios other than dropping the potassium silicate and koh.

i understand, so go small until the plant askes for more.

it's sounding more like i'll have a change out rather then a top off then.

Co2 is 729...


pics from just now...

 

[moe.red]

If you reaaaaaly want to know for sure



Test the sap is the only way to know for sure. Other than that you got a bunch of stoners trying to play Sherlock Holmes.

 

[moe.red]

Inefficient roots. The ones circled are the area to watch. If the plant is happy they will double daily. And add more.

 

[Stoneyluv]

If you reaaaaaly want to know for sure

View attachment 91341

Test the sap is the only way to know for sure. Other than that you got a bunch of stoners trying to play Sherlock Holmes.

dang thats a pricy way to measure the sap!!! i'll have to sleep on that one before an impulse buy.

i'm gonna mix up a few gallon samples tonight and make sure i have my numbers correct.

View attachment 91349

Inefficient roots. The ones circled are the area to watch. If the plant is happy they will double daily. And add more.

i agree, sub par and not what i wanted.. those couple side shoots have been the very first that plant has had, and today is the first time i saw them. the other plant has a few more side roots but still not acceptable.

i'll get this same photo in 24 hours and see whats up..

i'm gonna mix some agsil and koh in water at different amounts and see what kind of numbers i get.. maybe this will help determine my next ratios.

 

[moe.red]

dang thats a pricy way to measure the sap!!! i'll have to sleep on that one before an impulse buy.

i'm gonna mix up a few gallon samples tonight and make sure i have my numbers correct.



i agree, sub par and not what i wanted.. those couple side shoots have been the very first that plant has had, and today is the first time i saw them. the other plant has a few more side roots but still not acceptable.

i'll get this same photo in 24 hours and see whats up..

i'm gonna mix some agsil and koh in water at different amounts and see what kind of numbers i get.. maybe this will help determine my next ratios.

I’ve been thinking about buying the set for years since my buddy Aqua tried to pry my wallet open when he showed this to me. Full set of 5 is what ya want tho

 

[Stoneyluv]

I’ve been thinking about buying the set for years since my buddy Aqua tried to pry my wallet open when he showed this to me. Full set of 5 is what ya want tho

yea i saw the whole rainbow of em...



need to keep my eyes open on ebay... i bought both my bluelabs pens from there as "open box" both were used when i got them and sent pics to the seller and they gave me my money back and told me to keep them!!

 

[Aqua Man]

You used to run the Diablo 650 right? And sf 7000?

Yup

 

[ninjadip]

Moe/aqua what's your opinion on extra molybdenum for root growth like the product rapid start?

 

[Aqua Man]

i understand, so go small until the plant askes for more.

it's sounding more like i'll have a change out rather then a top off then.

Co2 is 729...
View attachment 91326

pics from just now...

View attachment 91330
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View attachment 91329

Looking way better

 

[Aqua Man]

Moe/aqua what's your opinion on extra molybdenum for root growth like the product rapid start?

Supplements only really make a difference when you have a deficiency and an excess always causes problems so if you are seeing no problems then IMO no need to create them.

Nothing wrong with rapid start when used as directed. More beneficial when used in say RO.

This true of almost all supplements

 

[ninjadip]

Supplements only really make a difference when you have a deficiency and an excess always causes problems so if you are seeing no problems then IMO no need to create them.

Nothing wrong with rapid start when used as directed. More beneficial when used in say RO.

This true of almost all supplements

Makes sense, I'm on my first RO run and used rapid start at every change this time up until a few weeks ago, I couldn't be happier with the roots this go. I thought maybe it's cause of that and the bennies/mycro

Was just curious your opinion, thank you

 

[moe.red]

Been thinking about your roots.

If these were clones it wouldn’t matter. But with seeds those tap roots head south until the meet resistance. Thinking about printing a disk that clips on to the bottom of the net pot to give it a reason to go sideways. I’ll send you a file when I get it done.

I just planted more seeds than I need and plan to cull some. I’ll experiment with that and maybe even bottoming the tap roots on a couple. Bottoming meaning opposite of topping. We need a word for that.

 

[Aqua Man]

Been thinking about your roots.

If these were clones it wouldn’t matter. But with seeds those tap roots head south until the meet resistance. Thinking about printing a disk that clips on to the bottom of the net pot to give it a reason to go sideways. I’ll send you a file when I get it done.

I just planted more seeds than I need and plan to cull some. I’ll experiment with that and maybe even bottoming the tap roots on a couple. Bottoming meaning opposite of topping. We need a word for that.

Great idea @moe.red fucking fantastic idea. Would live to see how that works

 

[Observer]

ive broken the end of the tap root to encourage lateral growth, seems to work.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Looking way better

yes, they are. not correct yet but much better. today i have some more burn on new growth..

last night i raised the light a few more inches getting prepped for adding the second light and today new growth has new burn.. and the fan has been off for three days.

i'm now taking the light out of the equation. it may have not helped getting pounded and blown but i don't think it was the initial cause... i assume a change out is my next step?

Makes sense, I'm on my first RO run and used rapid start at every change this time up until a few weeks ago, I couldn't be happier with the roots this go. I thought maybe it's cause of that and the bennies/mycro

Was just curious your opinion, thank you

that stuff is my favorite cloning solution!!! pricey, but it works great for me.

Been thinking about your roots.

If these were clones it wouldn’t matter. But with seeds those tap roots head south until the meet resistance. Thinking about printing a disk that clips on to the bottom of the net pot to give it a reason to go sideways. I’ll send you a file when I get it done.

I just planted more seeds than I need and plan to cull some. I’ll experiment with that and maybe even bottoming the tap roots on a couple. Bottoming meaning opposite of topping. We need a word for that.

i'm all ears Moe!!!! do ya think it will fit on my small 220mm print bed? i'd love to try it out!!!

bottoming the roots does need a name for their "down there care" haha

 

[Aqua Man]

How are the leaf temps looking now? Have to get the plant temps up and they will likely start drinking better and pulling more nutrients

 

[Stoneyluv]

How are the leaf temps looking now? Have to get the plant temps up and they will likely start drinking better and pulling more nutrients

they're drinking for sure. in fact the rez is a couple inches low and i'm at the crossroads whether or not i start the top off procedure or do a change out...

right now the lower water level is probably encouraging side rooting so might not be a bad thing atm??

man leaf temps are still low. maybe a degree or two higher but even with the room temp 80 they're still low. and my air temp probes are right next to the plants at their level. even when i point the gun at the lids t temp shoots up to 75-78 then soon as it hits plants it drops to 62 and some even lower at 58 on the smaller plant.

i just don't understand. how can something so thin and small be so cold in there??? i need a radiant heater!! not a radiator!! haha i joke but man i just don't get the low temps. i've confirmed the gun is set to the hemp/leaf setting and the gun matches all the other temps i've tested and i now trust it and the numbers don't lie, the leaf temps are chilled to the bone! and not just the edges either, the whole leaf is that cool, even the newest growth next to the stalk.

i triple and quadruple checked every other number and water temps are still 70.5. air still 80 rh around 60 ph still 5.8 ppms still 300 i just don't get it. it's like they're anemic or something!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

before n after...



both lights on winches and communicating with each other... got my floor cleaned up and taped the floor pan to the walls. got the best i can around the facility side..





now i have twice the amount of torque.. still in first gear though until these Karens get over their HOA issues...

 

[Stoneyluv]

pics from friday night... still got the dang curls!!






i topped off with plain water tonight.. the black line represents the bottom of the netcup. the PPM is now 290 and i also added some enzymes. it might have been a waste if i do a change out but it was only a couple bucks worth.



.

I did some testing and got some numbers..

the 2ml of agsil 16 and 1ml KOH together are 50 ppm
1ml of calimagic is 70 ppm
1ml of nova grow is 110 ppm

and the ingredients for nova grow are:



so am i correct in thinking that i am giving them over 50% in total K? is that right? if 10% is 11ppm and i'm adding 50ppm for a total of 61ppm of K

is that enough for toxicity?

please help me @Aqua Man