Fog prep

[Observer]

""In the study by de Almeida et al. [9], they investigated the effects of irrigation with magnetized water on the growth parameters (plant height and stem diameter) of cherry tomatoes. They concluded that tomato production irrigated with magnetically treated water resulted in superior stem development. In the study by El-Zawily et al. [99], they investigated the advantages and disadvantages of alternate tomato irrigation by using fresh and agricultural drainage water with or without the use of a magnetic field. They concluded that the plants irrigated with 100% freshwater and subjected to a magnetic field produced the maximum yield and economic efficiency. More recently, many studies [91],[92],[100]–[104] also found improvements in the growth of plants subjected to magnetized water.""

 

[Observer]

There's like 18 species of water we know about but mostly these don't exist under Earth's conditions maybe in space and other situations


I would steer clear of exotic species IMO but I don't know anything specific. Just that it's perhaps like messing with sorcery if you don't have your facts together


Magnetic field is a really interesting idea and I'm down with trying to understand the physics better

The improvements in the growth of plants treated with magnetized water can be attributed to the fact that the application of a magnetic field has positive effects on soil characteristics, plant root architecture and cell membrane permeability, in addition to the chemical properties of the water. Surface tension, viscosity and evaporation rate were also changed under the effect of the magnetic field [37]. Furthermore, magnetized water has decreased hydrophobicity as a result of its reaction with released ions in soil solution, which increases the coupling of water molecules to soil particles. As a result, soil moisture content was found to be higher in the magnetized water irrigated group than in the control group [107].


The effect of magnetic fields on plant growth has been investigated extensively, but not thoroughly enough. Many recent studies have found that applying a magnetic field to seeds or water improves the germination of treated seeds, reduces the time to germination and promotes the seedling growth of a variety of crop species. The germination of seeds and the growth and reproduction of the plant, as well as meristem cell proliferation, were improved when the seeds were magnetically treated. When irrigation water or planted seeds were subjected to a specific magnetic field, there was an increase in germination and growth in tomato (Solanum lycopersicum) [3],[5], cucumber (Cucumis sativus) [9],[10], sunflower (Helianthus annuus) [11], chili pepper (Capsicum annuum) [90], corn (Zea mays) [89], pepper (Capsicum annuum) [97] and potato (Solanum tuberosum L.) plants [98]. In addition, the height of the plant, dry weight and seedling vigor were all improved by magnetized water treatment.

 

[Franksta]

The improvements in the growth of plants treated with magnetized water can be attributed to the fact that the application of a magnetic field has positive effects on soil characteristics, plant root architecture and cell membrane permeability, in addition to the chemical properties of the water. Surface tension, viscosity and evaporation rate were also changed under the effect of the magnetic field [37]. Furthermore, magnetized water has decreased hydrophobicity as a result of its reaction with released ions in soil solution, which increases the coupling of water molecules to soil particles. As a result, soil moisture content was found to be higher in the magnetized water irrigated group than in the control group [107].


The effect of magnetic fields on plant growth has been investigated extensively, but not thoroughly enough. Many recent studies have found that applying a magnetic field to seeds or water improves the germination of treated seeds, reduces the time to germination and promotes the seedling growth of a variety of crop species. The germination of seeds and the growth and reproduction of the plant, as well as meristem cell proliferation, were improved when the seeds were magnetically treated. When irrigatiosn water or planted seeds were subjected to a specific magnetic field, there was an increase in germination and growth in tomato (Solanum lycopersicum) [3],[5], cucumber (Cucumis sativus) [9],[10], sunflower (Helianthus annuus) [11], chili pepper (Capsicum annuum) [90], corn (Zea mays) [89], pepper (Capsicum annuum) [97] and potato (Solanum tuberosum L.) plants [98]. In addition, the height of the plant, dry weight and seedling vigor were all improved by magnetized water treatment.

So it's having surfactant activity. I would like to see if the ion exchange capacity is increasing also

It's helping alignment of the elements so they start self assembly more easily IMO. No doubt temperature and pH are all interface here also

This would be my guess but lots is potentially going on at the same time

Think about plants like a battery and the positive and negative ends... With the plants cells being the membrane

 

[Observer]

So it's having surfactant activity. I would like to see if the ion exchange capacity is increasing also

It's helping alignment of the elements so they start self assembly more easily IMO

This would be my guess but lots is potentially going on at the same time

Think about plants like a battery and the positive and negative ends... With the plants cells being the membrane

yes i think i read something akin somewhere amongst these papers

structured water vs unstructured water, easier to uptake into cells, like a key and hole, geometry playing a role in this lol

im still digging and reading but theres just so much.

i want to say yes, or its possible maybe?

think of a railgun, charging the particles faster and faster as it passes through.

 

[Observer]

"In fact, the type of potentially exchangeable ions found in water affects the physical and chemical features of the soil, such as its permeability and structure (aggregate stabilization). The quality of irrigation water, organic matter contribution and tillage all play a role in agricultural soil protection [95]. According to Cui et al. [94], the soil nutrient content and enzyme activity were significantly higher in the magnetized water treatment group as compared to the control treatment group. As compared to the non-magnetized water treatment, the quantity of Proteobacteria in the soil increased dramatically after irrigation with magnetized water."

 

[Observer]

can play around with this cheaply and easily, neodymium magnets are cheap, small container of water between them. done

as far as i understand it so far.

 

[Observer]

makes water more wet lol

and assume experimentation with MFs under optimal conditions, wonder whats Observable.

 

[Franksta]

yes that has been mentioned somewhere...

structured water vs unstructured water, easier to uptake into cells, like a key and hole, geometry playing a role in this lol

im still digging and reading but theres just so much.

i want to say yes, or its possible maybe?

think of a railgun, charging the particles faster and faster as it passes through.

Correct.. cause of the angles of the molecule of water.... 104.5 and the distance it's circling around....



The magnetic can bend some of it and make more combination possible

It's not just bending water only but many of the other elements and molecule as they interact and catalyze reaction

 

[Observer]

Correct.. cause of the angles of the molecule of water.... 104.5 and the distance it's circling around....



The magnetic can bend some of it and make more combination possible too orView attachment 19008View attachment 19009

fuckin geometry and magnets...

just dont Observe the angles lol (quantum fuckery wave joke)

 

[Franksta]

When you think about some of this it makes you wonder about where life starts and ends cause it's kinda like the universe itself is alive once specific conditions start to line up and the elements start self assembly

Chicken and eggs stuff

 

[Observer]

When you think about some of this it makes you wonder about where life starts and ends cause it's kinda like the universe itself is alive once specific conditions start to line up and the elements start self assembly

Chicken and eggs stuff

i think about this stuff a lot lol

i was thinking if DNA supposedly arose from a chemical reaction, we should be able to do the same thing, ergo Create Life, Through Chemistry.

but i do like the simulation theory and some alien-species-possibly-seed-earth-or-modified-DNA-here-theory, lol.

 

[Franksta]

Just got up for a few to smoke. It's so quiet and sky is like a mirror up there. Millions of stars, crystal clear viewing

I got the NVG out and looking around, you can see numerous satellite passing through the area

I'm really excited for the new building and what is becoming possible here in the future

Use a live star app so I can see what I'm looking at

 

[Observer]

Fogponics

hey guys, I was hanging out with a new friend and he introduced me to the subject of fogponics. The idea is to have a dense cloud of nutes and water surrounding the roots of the plant. Kind of like aero but much more effective. Wondering if any of you guys out there have heard of something...

www.icmag.com

 

[moe.red]

Fogponics

hey guys, I was hanging out with a new friend and he introduced me to the subject of fogponics. The idea is to have a dense cloud of nutes and water surrounding the roots of the plant. Kind of like aero but much more effective. Wondering if any of you guys out there have heard of something...

www.icmag.com

2008.

If I can get rid of this GD chest cold, I'll show you what fog in 2023 looks like.

 

[Observer]

2008.

If I can get rid of this GD chest cold, I'll show you what fog in 2023 looks like.

Sweet

Was just curious if anything they've said they tried and didn't work the best, if you've worked out the kinks, if you have scrolled through there.

Can't wait to see more videos of the Lab.

Finally moving soon, supposedly can move on the first by 4pm, 2Br apartment.

I'll eventually start tinkering with fog once I get moved and get things going

 

[moe.red]

Sweet

Was just curious if anything they've said they tried and didn't work the best, if you've worked out the kinks, if you have scrolled through there.

Can't wait to see more videos of the Lab.

Finally moving soon, supposedly can move on the first by 4pm, 2Br apartment.

I'll eventually start tinkering with fog once I get moved and get things going

I still don't fully understand fog. The roots are different than any other growing style that I have seen or tried. And huge. That bothers me. If they have everything they need, why do they have to grow so big? Also my EC is necessarily higher in fog than RDWC to keep the plants happy. I don't quite understand the whole relationship yet. It may be that atomization of salts is not as efficient as drowning them in water? But then why grow noticeably faster?

Some stuff I can not yet fully explain to my own satisfaction.

Great news on the move. I'm sure we can come up with a mini system for you to play with that doesn't break the bank. I've got some 3d parts you will want when you get going.

 

[Observer]

I still don't fully understand fog. The roots are different than any other growing style that I have seen or tried. And huge. That bothers me. If they have everything they need, why do they have to grow so big? Also my EC is necessarily higher in fog than RDWC to keep the plants happy. I don't quite understand the whole relationship yet. It may be that atomization of salts is not as efficient as drowning them in water? But then why grow noticeably faster?

Some stuff I can not yet fully explain to my own satisfaction.

Great news on the move. I'm sure we can come up with a mini system for you to play with that doesn't break the bank. I've got some 3d parts you will want when you get going.

Packing stuff up

I'll get back with a proper keyboard

 

[Observer]

I still don't fully understand fog. The roots are different than any other growing style that I have seen or tried. And huge. That bothers me. If they have everything they need, why do they have to grow so big? Also my EC is necessarily higher in fog than RDWC to keep the plants happy. I don't quite understand the whole relationship yet. It may be that atomization of salts is not as efficient as drowning them in water? But then why grow noticeably faster?

Some stuff I can not yet fully explain to my own satisfaction.

Great news on the move. I'm sure we can come up with a mini system for you to play with that doesn't break the bank. I've got some 3d parts you will want when you get going.

""

• The tiny droplets of fog provide a very high surface area for the roots to absorb nutrients and oxygen. This can lead to faster growth and more extensive root development.
• The fog droplets are constantly evaporating, which creates a humid environment around the roots. This helps to prevent the roots from drying out and also helps to prevent the growth of harmful bacteria.
• The fog droplets are evenly distributed throughout the root zone, which ensures that all of the roots have access to nutrients and oxygen. This can be helpful for plants with large root systems, such as tomatoes and peppers.

The higher EC in fogponics systems may be due to the fact that the nutrients are more easily lost in the fog. The fog droplets can evaporate quickly, taking the nutrients with them. This means that you need to add more nutrients to the fogponics system to keep the plants healthy.

The faster growth in fogponics systems may be due to the combination of the high surface area for nutrient and oxygen absorption, the humid environment, and the evenly distributed fog droplets. These factors all contribute to creating an ideal growing environment for plants.""

-Google BARD

maybe some insight

 

[Observer]

1. Root Size in Fogponics: In a fogponics system, plants often develop larger root systems compared to other hydroponic systems. This can be attributed to the fact that in a fogponics setup, the plant roots are exposed to a highly oxygenated environment. The fine mist of nutrient solution provides both water and oxygen directly to the roots, promoting their growth. In other systems, such as RDWC, the roots are submerged in water, which can limit oxygen availability and result in smaller root systems.
2. Nutrient Concentration (EC) in Fogponics: It's not unusual for the electrical conductivity (EC) to be higher in a fogponics system compared to RDWC. This is because fogponics relies on the atomization of nutrient solution into tiny droplets, which can lead to faster nutrient uptake by the plants. When the nutrient solution is misted, it can more efficiently come into contact with the roots, leading to faster growth. In RDWC, the roots are submerged in a larger volume of water, and the nutrient solution may not be as readily available to the plants.
3. Efficiency of Nutrient Delivery: Fogponics is highly efficient at delivering nutrients directly to the roots. The fine mist ensures that nutrients are evenly distributed and absorbed by the root system. In contrast, RDWC relies on the circulation of nutrient-rich water, which can sometimes result in uneven nutrient distribution and slower absorption by the roots.
4. Faster Growth in Fogponics: The combination of increased oxygen availability and efficient nutrient delivery in fogponics can result in faster plant growth. When plants receive optimal oxygen and nutrients, they can focus their energy on vegetative and reproductive growth, leading to healthier and more vigorous plants.

1. Root Growth in Fogponics: In a fogponics system, the larger root growth can be attributed to the plant's response to the highly oxygenated environment. In this system, the fine mist of nutrient solution provides an ample supply of both oxygen and nutrients directly to the roots. As a result, the plants may develop larger root systems to take full advantage of these optimal conditions. While the roots are indeed larger, they are also likely to be healthier and more efficient in nutrient uptake.
2. Higher EC in Fogponics: The need for a higher electrical conductivity (EC) in fogponics compared to RDWC can be due to the efficient atomization of the nutrient solution. In fogponics, the nutrient solution is broken down into tiny droplets, which may require a slightly higher concentration of salts (nutrients) to ensure that each droplet contains a sufficient amount of essential elements. The efficient delivery of nutrients in mist form can lead to faster growth, but it also requires a careful balance to prevent nutrient imbalances or deficiencies.
3. Efficiency of Atomization vs. Drowning: The efficiency of atomization in fogponics is indeed different from the method of drowning roots in water, as seen in RDWC. Atomization allows for a more even and precise delivery of nutrients to the roots. While it may appear that drowning the roots in water would be efficient, it can sometimes lead to localized nutrient imbalances and less oxygen availability, which can impact growth.
4. Faster Growth in Fogponics: The faster growth observed in fogponics is often a result of the highly oxygenated environment, efficient nutrient delivery, and the plant's ability to allocate more energy toward growth rather than searching for nutrients. With better oxygen and nutrient availability, plants can photosynthesize more efficiently and produce more biomass.

-ChatGPT

 

[Observer]

Great news on the move. I'm sure we can come up with a mini system for you to play with that doesn't break the bank. I've got some 3d parts you will want when you get going.

sweet man thatd be awesome.


definitely need to get me a 3D printer down the road, looking at the ENDERs

 

[moe.red]

That seems counterintuitive to me Mr. Chat GPT.

It's not unusual for the electrical conductivity (EC) to be higher in a fogponics system compared to RDWC. This is because fogponics relies on the atomization of nutrient solution into tiny droplets, which can lead to faster nutrient uptake by the plants. When the nutrient solution is misted, it can more efficiently come into contact with the roots, leading to faster growth.

So faster nutrient uptake means you need to run a higher EC? Why does this not burn the plants?

What I am seeing is deficiency at lower EC. It makes me feel like less nutes are being delivered, not more.

The faster growth observed in fogponics is often a result of the highly oxygenated environment, efficient nutrient delivery, and the plant's ability to allocate more energy toward growth rather than searching for nutrients.

How does a plant "search for nutrients?" By growing more roots. This seems like a circular argument to me. Because fog is so efficient, plants don't have to search for nutes, so it grows (roots) faster.

There may be some truth nuggets in there, but honestly I still cannot explain it in laymen's terms in a way that makes sense.

My current working theory is that roots will grow to fit the size of the container. In my case, the space for roots is really big. I'm using 55 gallon totes with only 2 plants per tote. Way bigger than my 13 gallon RDWC sites. Kinda like a tap root in a seedling will grow straight down until some resistance is found, then starts going wide, I think my roots are growing so big because they are filling the space. The roots can then support a plant MUCH larger than my tent will allow for. So to me, I have an imbalance built into my design. I plan to put this to the test very soon. I'll show you what I mean when I get this system back online.

 

[Observer]

That seems counterintuitive to me Mr. Chat GPT.

It's not unusual for the electrical conductivity (EC) to be higher in a fogponics system compared to RDWC. This is because fogponics relies on the atomization of nutrient solution into tiny droplets, which can lead to faster nutrient uptake by the plants. When the nutrient solution is misted, it can more efficiently come into contact with the roots, leading to faster growth.

So faster nutrient uptake means you need to run a higher EC? Why does this not burn the plants?

oxygen content, the plants can take it.

What I am seeing is deficiency at lower EC. It makes me feel like less nutes are being delivered, not more.

Small E.C - The higher EC in fogponics systems may be due to the fact that the nutrients are more easily lost in the fog. The fog droplets can evaporate quickly, taking the nutrients with them.

This means that you need to add more nutrients to the fogponics system to keep the plants healthy. The higher EC also helps to keep the roots from drying out

The faster growth observed in fogponics is often a result of the highly oxygenated environment, efficient nutrient delivery, and the plant's ability to allocate more energy toward growth rather than searching for nutrients.

How does a plant "search for nutrients?" By growing more roots. This seems like a circular argument to me. Because fog is so efficient, plants don't have to search for nutes, so it grows (roots) faster.

and youve provided ample space for the roots to grow, they are just going to keep increasing their surface area for more inputs, so you can manipulate that variable too.

There may be some truth nuggets in there, but honestly I still cannot explain it in laymen's terms in a way that makes sense.

My current working theory is that roots will grow to fit the size of the container.

the plants do "sense their environment based off their roots", if i start a seed in a solo vs a bigger pot, the bigger pot will sprawl out more so than the solo, growing bigger.

In my case, the space for roots is really big. I'm using 55 gallon totes with only 2 plants per tote. Way bigger than my 13 gallon RDWC sites. Kinda like a tap root in a seedling will grow straight down until some resistance is found, then starts going wide, I think my roots are growing so big because they are filling the space.

i concur

The roots can then support a plant MUCH larger than my tent will allow for. So to me, I have an imbalance built into my design. I plan to put this to the test very soon. I'll show you what I mean when I get this system back online.

make smaller chambers, as you see they dont need to be that big to support the space, if mainly to be utilized in a tent or a grow room depends the specs, im zeroed in around 0.50-0.70 of a gallon for a near optimal/balanced root zone space and canopy space for a 5x5tent with 6ft ceilings.

everything has to be balanced out per the scenario, ofc, ik you know this.

does any of this make sense, professor?

i dont know

but love to brainstorm it.

 

[Observer]

That seems counterintuitive to me Mr. Chat GPT.

yeah i just ran what you said into the chatbots, curious what they spit out.

 

[Observer]

relationship between EC and growth in fogponics is not fully understood, and there is some debate about the best way to manage it.

Some people believe that a higher EC is necessary to ensure that the plants are getting enough nutrients. They argue that the fog droplets can carry away nutrients more easily than water droplets, so a higher EC is needed to compensate for this.
Other people believe that a lower EC is better for fogponics. They argue that a higher EC can lead to nutrient burn, and that the plants can still grow well at a lower EC.



As for your question about how plants "search for nutrients," this is a complex topic that is still being studied by scientists. However, it is believed that plants use a variety of mechanisms to detect the availability of nutrients in their environment.

These mechanisms include the use of chemical signals, the presence of certain bacteria, and the ability to sense the electrical conductivity of the soil.
When plants detect that the nutrients in their environment are low, they may respond by growing more roots or by increasing their rate of photosynthesis.

These responses help the plants to absorb more nutrients and to grow more efficiently.
Your working theory about the relationship between root growth and container size is also an interesting one. It is possible that the roots in your fogponics system are growing so big because they have a lot of space to expand.



This is something that you can test by reducing the size of the container and seeing if the root growth slows down.

ive already/am doing this one ^

 

[moe.red]

I think there are some assumptions there that are not true for my system.

Being sealed, fog does not evaporate. With my timings, roots are never dry. Ever. And it is 100% humidity in there at all times.

I'll get it figured out to the point I feel comfortable, then spill the beans on what I have learned.

 

[GrumpAzz]

yeah i just ran what you said into the chatbots, curious what they spit out.

Chatbots have their place, but it's not in coming up with factual information. Yeah they can pump out some truth, but they're also designed to make anything they pump out  seem true, even making up facts and listing completely made up sources.

 

[Observer]

Chatbots have their place, but it's not in coming up with factual information. Yeah they can pump out some truth, but they're also designed to make anything they pump out  seem true, even making up facts and listing completely made up sources.

oh yeah i agree, some shit they spew is just that, and ive caught em in that.

just gotta shift through it and apply logic to them, as they dont. and cross-fact-check

but they still do have access to tons of information right or wrong which easily brings it to the forefront for investigation.

 

[Observer]

I think there are some assumptions there that are not true for my system.

Being sealed, fog does not evaporate. With my timings, roots are never dry. Ever. And it is 100% humidity in there at all times.

I'll get it figured out to the point I feel comfortable, then spill the beans on what I have learned.

right....good point lol

does this apply ?

"" 100% humidity will cause the dry fog to over condensate, there will be standing water, and that means disease, no fuzzy roots, no super efficient nutrient use, you're wasting your time."

but you do have fuzzy roots.

 

[Observer]

 

[moe.red]

does this apply ?

"" 100% humidity will cause the dry fog to over condensate, there will be standing water, and that means disease, no fuzzy roots, no super efficient nutrient use, you're wasting your time."

Nope. No idea where that came from, but chalk that up to broski help.

Dry fog? WTF? It's atomized water. Standing water means disease? Nope. Not only is it not standing water, but running sterile or with bennies would eliminate that anyhow if there were.