Using Far red lights at lights out

[Pipecarver]

Shrink wrap might help if the tube can take it or be protected until done. Glue type if water proof is a worry.

I need to get my parts and figure it out. I also probably need to drill another hole in my reservoir to fit the 1/2" top hat grommet. Re-drilling an existing hole can make the hole sloppy.

 

[OLDCRO]

I need to get my parts and figure it out. I also probably need to drill another hole in my reservoir to fit the 1/2" top hat grommet. Re-drilling an existing hole can make the hole sloppy.

Plug old hole with these

MECCANIXITY Silicone Rubber Hole Plug on amazon. I used these on two grow trays that had drilled holes no leakage for me.​

 

[Pipecarver]

Plug old hole with these

MECCANIXITY Silicone Rubber Hole Plug on amazon. I used these on two grow trays that had drilled holes no leakage for me.​

awesome I was just going to leave the golf filter and short hose to a shut off valve but they are an iffy connection as is, I get weeping at the top hat and outside the tank if I shuffle the tank around. I went and pulled on the line to snug the golf filter into the hole and pulled too hard, popped off the line and hat my nutes pouring out the bottom after a fresh refill. Got wet but I was able to capture most of it in my 10 gal wine making pot & had to wait until it drained to fixer up....lol...don't pull on that line, make sure its tight before adding water...fk...got it..lol

 

[ninjadip]

yay, they be comin!

what did the mfg recommend for the UV, no more than 3 hours max..?
maybe do like something around 10 cycles of 18-20 minutes during the lights on, right?


discount for 8% is SF8 i think

 

[Pipecarver]

yay, they be comin!

what did the mfg recommend for the UV, no more than 3 hours max..?
maybe do like something around 10 cycles of 18-20 minutes during the lights on, right?


discount for 8% is SF8 i think
View attachment 89608

Hey, those aren't the Far red lights if that's what your looking for. Mars is the only one I've seen that still has the far red.

I was looking at the UV too but I'm on the edge of power consumption in my tents now, I'm a bit afraid of any more watts blowing fuses, even just another 50w could do it.

Mars Hydro ADlite R30 Deep Red LED Grow Light For Far Red Supplement L - Mars Hydro CA

Vital 660nm Deep Red Spectrum: Deep red30 grow light's output is 30w(15W per light bar), using high-efficiency 660nm far red diodes to cover 3'x3', perfectly for smaller indoor garden Increase Yield: Deep red light plays a crucial role in promoting flowering and fruit development in plants...

marshydroled.ca

 

[Pipecarver]

I found the perfect tool to add some far red to your plants light while working on them. This thing looks reversible so the therapy lights will shine on the plants when you are working with them....another brilliant idea brought to you by cannabis, our 1 true provider of inspiration and grand idea's.

 

[MiGrampa]

Hey, those aren't the Far red lights if that's what your looking for. Mars is the only one I've seen that still has the far red.

I was looking at the UV too but I'm on the edge of power consumption in my tents now, I'm a bit afraid of any more watts blowing fuses, even just another 50w could do it.

Mars Hydro ADlite R30 Deep Red LED Grow Light For Far Red Supplement L - Mars Hydro CA

Vital 660nm Deep Red Spectrum: Deep red30 grow light's output is 30w(15W per light bar), using high-efficiency 660nm far red diodes to cover 3'x3', perfectly for smaller indoor garden Increase Yield: Deep red light plays a crucial role in promoting flowering and fruit development in plants...

marshydroled.ca

I have 2 sets of these for my tents:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CSFRQZ35?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

They're running in the 730nm-745nm wavelength.

I also have 2 sets of these:

2025 Mars Hydro ADlite Deep Red 55 + Blue 55 Supplemental LED Grow Lig - Mars Hydro CA

This product contains: ADlite Deep Red 55: 660nm wavelength, 2 light bars (27W each) ADlite Blue 55: 440nm wavelength, 2 light bars (27W each) Application: Suitable for pairing with main grow lights over 500W. Features: Blue Light: Enhances plant morphology during the vegetative stage by...

marshydroled.ca

 

[MiGrampa]

I have 2 sets of these for my tents:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CSFRQZ35?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

They're running in the 730nm-745nm wavelength.

I also have 2 sets of these:

2025 Mars Hydro ADlite Deep Red 55 + Blue 55 Supplemental LED Grow Lig - Mars Hydro CA

This product contains: ADlite Deep Red 55: 660nm wavelength, 2 light bars (27W each) ADlite Blue 55: 440nm wavelength, 2 light bars (27W each) Application: Suitable for pairing with main grow lights over 500W. Features: Blue Light: Enhances plant morphology during the vegetative stage by...

marshydroled.ca

Just for clarity so you know what I'm doing ...

I'm referencing this article: https://www.alchimiaweb.com/blogen/emerson-effect/

Here's a few paragraphs copied and pasted from the article I referenced:

What is the Emerson effect in plants?​

The Emerson effect is a biological phenomenon observed in plants when they receive light with a wavelength of about 660-670 nm (deep red) together with red light at 700-7300 nm (far red). It was discovered by the American scientist Robert Emerson in the 1950s while researching photosynthesis in green algae; In 1957, Emerson reported the results of his research on what we today call the "Emerson Effect", a phenomenon by which photosynthesis in plants is increased by exposing chloroplasts to lights with wavelengths of 670 nm (red or deep red) and 700 nm (far red light) simultaneously. These experiments demonstrated, over time, that there are two photosynthetic reaction centers in plants.

Therefore, illuminating your plants with a combination of deep red (650-680 nm) and far red (700-730 nm) at the same time should increase the photosynthetic rate of your plants, which will be higher than if you used either. the two types of light separately. By having both types of light, plants will react by increasing their rate of photosynthesis, accelerating their metabolism, and producing a greater amount of energy, which can translate into plants that are more resistant to stress, faster in their development, and with greater production of flowers. and fruits, as well as compounds such as cannabinoids and terpenes.

Thus, the Emerson effect describes how photosynthesis in plants can be more efficient when they simultaneously receive these two types of light. In other words, thanks to this phenomenon we can achieve what we are all looking for in our crops: healthier, more resistant, and productive. Although the Emerson effect has been shown to occur in different plant species, it must be said that there is still a lot to learn about the exact mechanisms behind this phenomenon and how it can be used in practical applications, such as the case of cannabis cultivation.


I'm going to jump down the page to another group of paragraphs that describes how I am running my lights ...

Turning lamps on and off: take advantage of the Emerson effect​

Without a doubt, one of the most popular and widely used techniques about this phenomenon is the use of lamps with both types of red light (deep red and far red) that turn on a little before the main grow lamp and turn off. a little after this one. Thus, a good strategy is to turn on your red lamp 15 minutes before, for example, your HPS equipment or LED panel, and turn it off about 15 minutes after your main lighting equipment.

In this way, your "normal" growing lamp will continue with a photoperiod of 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness, while the photoperiod of the red light will be 12:30 hours on and 11:30 hours off, since you must leave it on throughout the daytime period of the plants, that is, also during the 12 hours in which your main lamp will be connected.

 

[steamroller]

Just for clarity so you know what I'm doing ...

I'm referencing this article: https://www.alchimiaweb.com/blogen/emerson-effect/

Here's a few paragraphs copied and pasted from the article I referenced:

What is the Emerson effect in plants?​

The Emerson effect is a biological phenomenon observed in plants when they receive light with a wavelength of about 660-670 nm (deep red) together with red light at 700-7300 nm (far red). It was discovered by the American scientist Robert Emerson in the 1950s while researching photosynthesis in green algae; In 1957, Emerson reported the results of his research on what we today call the "Emerson Effect", a phenomenon by which photosynthesis in plants is increased by exposing chloroplasts to lights with wavelengths of 670 nm (red or deep red) and 700 nm (far red light) simultaneously. These experiments demonstrated, over time, that there are two photosynthetic reaction centers in plants.

Therefore, illuminating your plants with a combination of deep red (650-680 nm) and far red (700-730 nm) at the same time should increase the photosynthetic rate of your plants, which will be higher than if you used either. the two types of light separately. By having both types of light, plants will react by increasing their rate of photosynthesis, accelerating their metabolism, and producing a greater amount of energy, which can translate into plants that are more resistant to stress, faster in their development, and with greater production of flowers. and fruits, as well as compounds such as cannabinoids and terpenes.

Thus, the Emerson effect describes how photosynthesis in plants can be more efficient when they simultaneously receive these two types of light. In other words, thanks to this phenomenon we can achieve what we are all looking for in our crops: healthier, more resistant, and productive. Although the Emerson effect has been shown to occur in different plant species, it must be said that there is still a lot to learn about the exact mechanisms behind this phenomenon and how it can be used in practical applications, such as the case of cannabis cultivation.


I'm going to jump down the page to another group of paragraphs that describes how I am running my lights ...

Turning lamps on and off: take advantage of the Emerson effect​

Without a doubt, one of the most popular and widely used techniques about this phenomenon is the use of lamps with both types of red light (deep red and far red) that turn on a little before the main grow lamp and turn off. a little after this one. Thus, a good strategy is to turn on your red lamp 15 minutes before, for example, your HPS equipment or LED panel, and turn it off about 15 minutes after your main lighting equipment.

In this way, your "normal" growing lamp will continue with a photoperiod of 12 hours of light and 12 hours of darkness, while the photoperiod of the red light will be 12:30 hours on and 11:30 hours off, since you must leave it on throughout the daytime period of the plants, that is, also during the 12 hours in which your main lamp will be connected.

So you keep the reds on for 12 1/2 hours a day?
Do you do this for the whole flower cycle?

 

[MiGrampa]

So you keep the reds on for 12 1/2 hours a day?
Do you do this for the whole flower cycle?

Yes, I have completed one grow using this method. I added extra deep red and far red for my current run ... which I will be starting 12/12 probably this weekend.

Edit: I will post pictures when I change the light cycle so we have a reference to where they started.

 

[Pipecarver]

Yes, I have completed one grow using this method. I added extra deep red and far red for my current run ... which I will be starting 12/12 probably this weekend.

Edit: I will post pictures when I change the light cycle so we have a reference to where they started.

I've tried a few ways to utilize the far reds. I tried 15 min on before lights out - 15 after lights out. same with lights on in the AM through their entire flower period. and extended my hours of light on from 12/12 - 13/11-14/10 the last 10 days. hoping for an early harvest of 9 weeks rather than 10-11. I harvested at 10 weeks with no marked difference I could see with my sometimes faulty observational skills.
I find just that 15 min at lights out makes them jump. I'm almost afraid to use them because of the stretching. I have them on tonight again and I'll see how many days more but I gotta keep an eye on them or they get out of hand fast.

 

[steamroller]

I just realized my MarsHydro FC8000 have the IR lights built in so they run for the full grow for me~!

 

[MiGrampa]

I've tried a few ways to utilize the far reds. I tried 15 min on before lights out - 15 after lights out. same with lights on in the AM through their entire flower period. and extended my hours of light on from 12/12 - 13/11-14/10 the last 10 days. hoping for an early harvest of 9 weeks rather than 10-11. I harvested at 10 weeks with no marked difference I could see with my sometimes faulty observational skills.
I find just that 15 min at lights out makes them jump. I'm almost afraid to use them because of the stretching. I have them on tonight again and I'll see how many days more but I gotta keep an eye on them or they get out of hand fast.

Last grow, I did have to tie them down later in flower. I don't have a ton of overhead room. My tent is 80" but to save space on the inside, my exhaust system is on the outside so I can actually hang the light within an inch of the fabric roof. I have a lot more reds now. My girls are also in large tomato cages so I'll have plenty of spots to tie them up so they don't grow out of their space.

I'm anxious to see what happens.

 

[MiGrampa]

I just realized my MarsHydro FC8000 have the IR lights built in so they run for the full grow for me~!

Does your MarsHydro produce this much red?



Picture is from about 10 days ago when I was adding my new lights to the tent:

Here's a picture with all the lights on ... even my blues.



Edit: Plants in the picture with the reds all have their mainstems tied down. They bush out a lot more for me that way.

 

[steamroller]

Does your MarsHydro produce this much red?

View attachment 91035

Picture is from about 10 days ago when I was adding my new lights to the tent:

Here's a picture with all the lights on ... even my blues.

View attachment 91036

There is no separate control for the so they are always and only on when all lights are on.
They may not be true IR but say 660mm-665nm. There are 120 diodes per fixture [15 per bar].
The links you listed stated they are excellent supplements for lower model Mars lights so that made me look and see why not the higher wattage lights.

 

[MiGrampa]

There is no separate control for the so they are always and only on when all lights are on.
They may not be true IR but say 660mm-665nm. There are 120 diodes per fixture [15 per bar].
The links you listed stated they are excellent supplements for lower model Mars lights so that made me look and see why not the higher wattage lights.

I bought the highest wattage I could find within my price range. I wanted to add more Grow Daddy LEDs but he was out of the 660nm/730nm boards. Now I have both Mars and SpiderFarmer in there along with my 640w Nano-Lux fixture. I also have 2 sets of AC Infinity IonBeams for side lighting.

 

[Driver77]

Hi...been lurking for awhile and thought I'd chime in on the lights topic. I run ir for 15mins before and after lights....I run uva for 10 to 15mins/hr with main schedule to counter the ir induced stretch. If stretching more than I like I increase duration. I also supplement red(660nm) with main schedule throughout flower to improve yield. Main lights are Mars fc8000's and using their new adlites and also old style bars. I've also found the uva will cause plants to eat more magnesium.

 

[Pipecarver]

Hi...been lurking for awhile and thought I'd chime in on the lights topic. I run ir for 15mins before and after lights....I run uva for 10 to 15mins/hr with main schedule to counter the ir induced stretch. If stretching more than I like I increase duration. I also supplement red(660nm) with main schedule throughout flower to improve yield. Main lights are Mars fc8000's and using their new adlites and also old style bars. I've also found the uva will cause plants to eat more magnesium.

Are you saying the UVA keeps plant shorter and helps fight the stretching with the reds?. Too much stretching is what limits the amount of red I do use. There's no way I can run them from 1 week - 3 weeks in flower. I don't have enough tent for that.. I find 15 min at lights out ample and 1 week is long enough. Then from 4 weeks on they can be on every night, stretching is done so I'm good to go.

I just transplanted and hooked up my Autopots and they've just started to feed from the trays and have jumped in color and overall health in the last 2 days. I added the reds for just 15 min last night and I swear they look better again today. I think I see through rose colored glasses after using them for just15 min again. I'm really impressed by how much a small amount of far red effects the plants growth.

 

[Pipecarver]

That will do it. will still need to reduce 16mm to 9mm coming off filter to hook up feed lines. A minor detail

Hey, I got that filter last week, just waiting on a bulkhead fitting. Its not quite what I expected, its ....how should I say? ,,,fking huge. I'm not sure this fker is going to work but I'll give it a try. I'll have to do some finagling and mount this thing to a leg post in front of my res before running it into my trays. I expected a small hand sized unit not this monstrosity.

 

[ninjadip]

Hi...been lurking for awhile and thought I'd chime in on the lights topic. I run ir for 15mins before and after lights....I run uva for 10 to 15mins/hr with main schedule to counter the ir induced stretch. If stretching more than I like I increase duration. I also supplement red(660nm) with main schedule throughout flower to improve yield. Main lights are Mars fc8000's and using their new adlites and also old style bars. I've also found the uva will cause plants to eat more magnesium.

Thank you for this insight!
I'm using dedicated IR and UVA bars for the first time this run, and was wondering myself if the UV would negate some stretch from the IR. I have the same time settings you have for both. Thanks for sharing

 

[MiGrampa]

Thank you for this insight!
I'm using dedicated IR and UVA bars for the first time this run, and was wondering myself if the UV would negate some stretch from the IR. I have the same time settings you have for both. Thanks for sharing

I'm using 440nm (I believe) blues to fight stretch. I could add UVA and UVB. However I already have a lot of extra lights in there and the plants are currently in there too. I might have to add the UVA and UVB back for next run if I have enough information stating that the UV light fights the stretch.

 

[Observer]

I'm using 440nm (I believe) blues to fight stretch. I could add UVA and UVB. However I already have a lot of extra lights in there and the plants are currently in there too. I might have to add the UVA and UVB back for next run if I have enough information stating that the UV light fights the stretch.

It would make sense.......think tug of war between the photosynthetic spectrums.....and their respective growth patterns.

 

[Observer]

Anyone using 280-350nm Wavelength on buds last week here?

That's what I wanna see, I've just not been able to play with it my self yet.

Detrimental when used incorrectly, but I bet if it's used just right in the right way, it will/can increase the cannabinoid production



And eventually i will, I'm just in a fucked spot in life atm.

 

[steamroller]

@Driver77 how many of the addlites are you using with your FC8000.
I run 2@ FC8000 that I cut in half to make them 2X8 instead of 4x4.
Nice first post~! Welcome to Bud Builders glad to have ya~!

 

[Driver77]

Are you saying the UVA keeps plant shorter and helps fight the stretching with the reds?. Too much stretching is what limits the amount of red I do use. There's no way I can run them from 1 week - 3 weeks in flower. I don't have enough tent for that.. I find 15 min at lights out ample and 1 week is long enough. Then from 4 weeks on they can be on every night, stretching is done so I'm good to go.

I just transplanted and hooked up my Autopots and they've just started to feed from the trays and have jumped in color and overall health in the last 2 days. I added the reds for just 15 min last night and I swear they look better again today. I think I see through rose colored glasses after using them for just15 min again. I'm really impressed by how much a small amount of far red effects the plants growth.

Yes...uva will keep plants shorter. Great for countering the ir stretch.....to a point. Plus you gain the added perks of terps and potency although the potency part is yet to be proven in a study.

 

[MiGrampa]

Yes...uva will keep plants shorter. Great for countering the ir stretch.....to a point. Plus you gain the added perks of terps and potency although the potency part is yet to be proven in a study.

It's my understanding that UVB between 280nm and 310nm is what causes a stress response to the ultra violet radiation. I do have the CLW UVB fixture. I used it for a few runs and didn't notice any differences. I have not run them with 660nm deep reds and 730nm far reds. Somewhere I likely have a black light fixture for some UVA. I'm currently using 440nm blues to induce stockiness in my plants.

 

[Driver77]

@Driver77 how many of the addlites are you using with your FC8000.
I run 2@ FC8000 that I cut in half to make them 2X8 instead of 4x4.
Nice first post~! Welcome to Bud Builders glad to have ya~!

I have them all now. I've had the old style uva/ir bars that couldn't be timed independently for a few years and played with them quite a bit. The new 660nm red bars are new to me along with the blue for veg. I've got all 3 ir/red/uva running in flower for the first time now so we'll see how much it adds. The uva and ir are great by themselves though.....I'm convinced it gets a little closer to mimic nature and helps bring more of the genetics potential out.

 

[MiGrampa]

I have them all now. I've had the old style uva/ir bars that couldn't be timed independently for a few years and played with them quite a bit. The new 660nm red bars are new to me along with the blue for veg. I've got all 3 ir/red/uva running in flower for the first time now so we'll see how much it adds. The uva and ir are great by themselves though.....I'm convinced it gets a little closer to mimic nature and helps bring more of the genetics potential out.

Well, I'm glad you're here! .... we can all compare what we have going in this thread. I'm pretty sure @Pipecarver would be interested in our results.

 

[Driver77]

It's my understanding that UVB between 280nm and 310nm is what causes a stress response to the ultra violet radiation. I do have the CLW UVB fixture. I used it for a few runs and didn't notice any differences. I have not run them with 660nm deep reds and 730nm far reds. Somewhere I likely have a black light fixture for some UVA. I'm currently using 440nm blues to induce stockiness in my plants.

It does and can be used for a much shorter duration to get effects. uva will give the same effects without the potential for damage. It's not going to make a huge difference if you are already maxing out a plants genetics....but I feel it does allow for that extra little something that otherwise wouldn't come out. There needs to be more scientific testing done.

 

[MiGrampa]

It does and can be used for a much shorter duration to get effects. uva will give the same effects without the potential for damage. It's not going to make a huge difference if you are already maxing out a plants genetics....but I feel it does allow for that extra little something that otherwise wouldn't come out. There needs to be more scientific testing done.

I agree with that ... our testing will mean something even if its not super well organized and published in a scientific journal.

 

[Driver77]

Awful lot of fun "testing" too.

 

[MiGrampa]

I have 9 in a 5 x 5. I'm running 3 each (from left to right) Gorilla Roadkill Skunk (Skunk Really Works), Dante's Inferno tester seeds (GPS), and LemonGrass (Humboldt Seed Company). I plan on flipping to 12/12 on Saturday 3/1/25.

 

[Driver77]

I haven't got to play with the blue yet...notice anything yet?
I've got 2 Purple cream Edit: (front) 2 Glue Sniffer(rear) a week into flower in a 4x4 with the extra red running along with uva and ir. Different cultivars react differently for sure....

 

[Observer]

Yes...uva will keep plants shorter. Great for countering the ir stretch.....to a point. Plus you gain the added perks of terps and potency although the potency part is yet to be proven in a study.

makes sense....its still BLUE light lol.

 

[Pipecarver]

Yes...uva will keep plants shorter. Great for countering the ir stretch.....to a point. Plus you gain the added perks of terps and potency although the potency part is yet to be proven in a study.

I haven't got to play with the blue yet...notice anything yet?
I've got 2 Purple cream Edit: (front) 2 Glue Sniffer(rear) a week into flower in a 4x4 with the extra red running along with uva and ir. Different cultivars react differently for sure....View attachment 91144

A nice green and healthy looking leaves, you're doing something right....eh, You're going to run out of boat, you'll need a bigger ship to flower those things. I see some pinching and bending in your future

 

[Driver77]

A nice green and healthy looking leaves, you're doing something right....eh, You're going to run out of boat, you'll need a bigger ship to flower those things. I see some pinching and bending in your future

Yeah...I flipped them early I thought. One of the problems with running different cultivars in the same tent. You'd think I would learn There getting the ole folded stem tomorrow when lights come on.
Thanks again for leading me here!
The knowledge on hydroponics on here is amazing. I've been reading for a couple hours a day and have done some tweaking with knowledge gained.

 

[Driver77]

The ir for wake up and sleep has made a difference in how they look at lights out and lights on. They used to droop an hour or 2 before lights out and after lights on and don't now. I didn't get it set up till just before flip so I'm anxious to try it in veg to see if it still holds. I used to just turn the uv and ir on for a few hours a day together(had the old style) and then played with separating them after buying a second set. I think it helps with bud density too.....anxious to see what others have noticed.
We'll see how yield does with the new red supplements that run with mains.....it's too hard to tell if I have more bud sites since I haven't grown these before. But I know what kind of yields I've been getting out of it to compare.

 

[Pipecarver]

The ir for wake up and sleep has made a difference in how they look at lights out and lights on. They used to droop an hour or 2 before lights out and after lights on and don't now. I didn't get it set up till just before flip so I'm anxious to try it in veg to see if it still holds. I used to just turn the uv and ir on for a few hours a day together(had the old style) and then played with separating them after buying a second set. I think it helps with bud density too.....anxious to see what others have noticed.
We'll see how yield does with the new red supplements that run with mains.....it's too hard to tell if I have more bud sites since I haven't grown these before. But I know what kind of yields I've been getting out of it to compare.

Drooping before lights out is normal, they all do it. Its funny you mentioned that I just posted 2 pics of them doing just that. They are much prettier in the am

Pipecarvers Pipes & things

I am the same usally order online with credit card for points but as soon as i receive order the card is payed they dont make any interest off me. Exactly. If you have to use the card just pay it off as soon as you know the items good and in your hands. They made there interest money off me...

budbuilders.org

 

[MiGrampa]

Yeah...I flipped them early I thought. One of the problems with running different cultivars in the same tent. You'd think I would learn There getting the ole folded stem tomorrow when lights come on.
Thanks again for leading me here!
The knowledge on hydroponics on here is amazing. I've been reading for a couple hours a day and have done some tweaking with knowledge gained.

@Driver77 - Actually, the over-all knowledge on this board is through the roof. We don't have an over-abundance of newer growers. The core of this group came from another well known forum. There was some friction and some people left and set up this group. Every one of us who are members here have been kicked/banned from the other group simply because we joined this one. So, long story short ... we have a lot of advanced level growers who have honed their skills through many years and many grows. In this sense, I believe you will fit right in.

I look forward to getting to know you on this forum.

 

[Tremojem]

I was a member of a forum that booted me for absolutely no reason.

I see amost all of my friends from that nightmare forum, right here.

I believe it to be true, that we all came here from that horrible other forum.

So glad I found you!

Hello again to Aqua Man, Pipecarver, Zen_seeker, CannaGranny, Moshmen, and steamroller. So glad I found this forum. So glad to be in your company again. When I was booted from XXXWWWWWW, without cause, I tried for weeks to find you and communicate what happened to me. NOTHING worked and I was so upset. Oh well, looks like they got what they deserve. Anyway, it's a celebration to be here and I wish for nothing more than great exchanges of knowledge and experience.