Fear and Loathing in Las Phoenix

[Coco Lopez]

Man those plants are picture perfect

Comin from you eeesh that goes a long way. Just trying to keep it simple and listen to sound advice vs "hearing" it. I'm concerned about only putting out 600ish or less ppfd to the center and borderline 450ish to corners. I am dialing up the phlizon a smidge each day for 3 days from like 550--625 but dang why do they talk about 600-900 in flower if it isn't something ideal/to shoot for. It makes me thing that my height and /or intensity is surely not optimized if I'm barely out of veg light recommendations.

Fuuuuuck yeah PT! Looking better than my own damn grow

I thought that was you howling at the end of the video! LOL

oOO you caught that. I have not yet known how to go about mentioning that Phlizon came though with the contest I won in April at the carnival. One thing is for sure, they did what they said they would and that goes a long way. They didn't ask a single thing but I'd like to thank them with showing the light in use somehow. I just don't know if should or not because I failed politics in grade school

 

[Shaded]

Comin from you eeesh that goes a long way. Just trying to keep it simple and listen to sound advice vs "hearing" it. I'm concerned about only putting out 600ish or less ppfd to the center and borderline 450ish to corners. I am dialing up the phlizon a smidge each day for 3 days from like 550--625 but dang why do they talk about 600-900 in flower if it isn't something ideal/to shoot for. It makes me thing that my height and /or intensity is surely not optimized if I'm barely out of veg light recommendations.

oOO you caught that. I have not yet known how to go about mentioning that Phlizon came though with the contest I won in April at the carnival. One thing is for sure, they did what they said they would and that goes a long way. They didn't ask a single thing but would like I'd like to thank them with showing the light in use. I just don't know if should or not because I failed politics in grade school

Phlizon has been awesome any time I've had to deal with them and I've really enjoyed my light from them as well. At least they weren't signing blood oaths for newborn children like another vendor that shall not be named.

If you really wanted to you could just go to the Phlizon website, under Contact Us and let them know you got the light/have a grow journal going over here and that you won't be posting @ thc farm for personal reasons.

 

[Aqua Man]

Comin from you eeesh that goes a long way. Just trying to keep it simple and listen to sound advice vs "hearing" it. I'm concerned about only putting out 600ish or less ppfd to the center and borderline 450ish to corners. I am dialing up the phlizon a smidge each day for 3 days from like 550--625 but dang why do they talk about 600-900 in flower if it isn't something ideal/to shoot for. It makes me thing that my height and /or intensity is surely not optimized if I'm barely out of veg light recommendations.

oOO you caught that. I have not yet known how to go about mentioning that Phlizon came though with the contest I won in April at the carnival. One thing is for sure, they did what they said they would and that goes a long way. They didn't ask a single thing but would like I'd like to thank them with showing the light in use. I just don't know if should or not because I failed politics in grade school

A-lot depends on the individual size of the plant and leaf surface area…. Most important co2 so good air exchange and VPD to drive more water through the plant to keep it cooler. Fans also created forced evaporation … both provide evaporative cooling.

Adequate nutrients to support photosynthesis the harder you drive them the more dialed in you need to be to the plants needs. I see many growrrs trying to overdo the light and it stunts them hard…. Always better to little than to much as you can see by those super healthy plants.

Outdoors some days plants only get 2000-5000lux. And clear sunny days around 100,000lux but only for peak periods of 3-4 hrs. Plus usually a shorter light period.

With our artificial lights we can blow the DLI away for 12 hrs in flower.

The best is to read the plants… your leaves are nice and flat so you can bump the light up a bit until you see a slight V in the upper 2-3 nodes only. Thats walking the line and what you want to do in flower. But do it slowly in increments.

Imho your far better off slightly low than to risk the damage and stunting from too much. I honestly think the majority of growers run lights a bit to high and not only does cause health issues but yield and quality also

 

[Rootsruler]

View attachment 4796

 

[SeedDude]

Yooo brotha Steam! Hah ya made my day

Yeah I kind of knew what I was getting into but this was my last YOLO run before going clone only and getting serious with 1 or 2 plants per 4x4.
Have really found it interesting how each cultivar has grown differently. Just really cool to watch the differences. The Vanilla Frosting from Anesia Seeds for instance has been the runt of them all and I will be happy if she nets me a few quarters at this rate. She also busted out with the neon overnight leaf growth inside the leaves not new growth. Seems the most finicky and least likely I would grow again. And then on the opposite spectrum is the Black Domina from Sensei Seeds that @ninjadip(he not here yet lol) gifted me. That thing is like a honey badger. It don't give no shit and has showed zero signs of anything but being a pleasure to grow. Also the SNS(Saturday Night Special) a dude I know online from Lake Havasu crossed it and it just grows like wild. All 8 strains are pretty heavily indica except that one though so may play a role. I do not know what it is at all but it sure grows sativa-ish in the way it is growing like wild.
Thanks for sayin you think I'm ok to Flip. Moving now to full-flipmode and securing all light leaks. Will change lights tomorrow to turn off at 6pm and 12/12 will begin

Yeah the water is brutal. They claim like 300 ppm and I've tested near 700-800. I let it sit out for days to dechlorinate but maybe it is still to "hard"? I use RO in my dehumidifiers but it is an under-the-sink that is slow enough just keeping up with how much the dehumidifiers take. I would not be able to feed these ladies 6-8g at a time with it. I've tried past grows with it and found I ran into like opposite spectrum issues so this time got sold on that my soil would be enough. I'm thinking it isn't and this is PH related. The video completely masks all the deficiencies/issues each are having. Gonna watch Otto with the woman and will take pics later. Thanks much again my friend

That SnS is looking good my brotha... thanks for hooking me up with this place...

 

[Coco Lopez]

That SnS is looking good my brotha... thanks for hooking me up with this place...

Hah thanks for being here. You are exactly what I see this place is all about. I owe much of starting to grow to you and won't ever forget.

That SnS is out of sight man. I love the growth and everything about it. I literally can't say anything bad about it aside from it deserved more room. I have 8 strains growing from 6 different breeders all over the world and yours is for sure the one that would yield the most if was scrogged alone. I would choose it for a 1 plant grow contest out of all of them if that makes sense. It even has a brighter color than all the others. Great work man

 

[Coco Lopez]

Day 21F update

Sup BBfamdamly, happy friday out there and hopin you are makin the most of it. Things aight on here in the desert and doin best not to burn away.

Monday I top dressed and watered in slowly. I am just doing my best to relax and not get in my own way. I've kinda given up on the Imperium X for now as it is a bush of leaves I am baffled by. Supposedly 65/35 sativa yet expresseses pheno of 200% indica. Crazy how you just never know when grow random beans. The tiniest plant of all that I would have been happy if harvested an 1/8th from and didn't expect would make it, is taller than the other 3 in the tent. I'm really looking forward to the next genetics I am going to run. All I can say is ABS(apple Banana Shugga)and GSK(Grape Shugga Kake) are exactly what I need. Ridiculously tolerant and back-tested out here and 2 of the frostiest ever seen.
View attachment 20230602_151119.mp4

 

[Shaded]

Looking nice & healthy over there PT!

 

[GoodShit97]

Day 21F update

Sup BBfamdamly, happy friday out there and hopin you are makin the most of it. Things aight on here in the desert and doin best not to burn away.

Monday I top dressed and watered in slowly. I am just doing my best to relax and not get in my own way. I've kinda given up on the Imperium X for now as it is a bush of leaves I am baffled by. Supposedly 65/35 sativa yet expresseses pheno of 200% indica. Crazy how you just never know when grow random beans. The tiniest plant of all that I would have been happy if harvested an 1/8th from and didn't expect would make it, is taller than the other 3 in the tent. I'm really looking forward to the next genetics I am going to run. All I can say is ABS(apple Banana Shugga)and GSK(Grape Shugga Kake) are exactly what I need. Ridiculously tolerant and back-tested out here and 2 of the frostiest ever seen.
View attachment 5342

Great looking plants brother, looks like you got em dialed in nicely

 

[Coco Lopez]

Thanks much and G-money. I am hoping looks aren't deceiving yet again. I have had too much experience than I'd like to admit with things appearing better than they turned out. My last grow for instance, I moved plants from 1 tent to another and sent into slight reveg due to supreme stoner move of not realizing 2nd tent timer was set to half hour or more of light than not. Caused them to take forever which I wouldn't have minded so much if weren't for that the THC was the lowest of any grow yet. Very low trich production that really affected the turn-out.
Now I'm 3 weeks into flower and am thinkin I should have more trichs. I am constantly at odds with whether cooler temps or hotter temps are more ideal now. Also I know that it technically gets warmer and cooler throughout the days if they were outdoors, but generally it would ramp up to a peak and then cool down. With my current situation I have them moving easily 5-8 degrees up and down like 5-10 times a day while lights are on. I am just not able with what I have to make the tents be automatically maintaining an ideal temp and rh.
Will it affect trich production negatively because it swings so often?
With these LEDs(HLG Blackbird and Phlizon FD-8000) should I take into account leaf temps more than what my tents sensor and other hygrometers say?
My leaf temps appear to be 2-4 on avg lower than tents say. If leaf temps count more then what should I shoot for3 weeks into flower? 77-78?
Is it common for the plants not to be giving off ANY distinct smells yet? Even if carefully rub where trichs are forming there really isn't anything. The Bubba Kush I "thought" I smelled bubblegum and almost fell over and then couldn't smell it again
How do I increase trich production
Know I asked a lot but any help from my fam out there is welcomed and appreciated

Pic is of a Black Domina branch I have named after the late @NinjaDip

 

[Coco Lopez]

Is this hogwash? Lookin for info on weeks 3 and 4 in flower and I'm fore sure taking 5+ days to water. These AC infinity pots retain moisture like no other fabric pot I have tried and have tried 3 or 4. Am I ok doing what I'm doing or is it really strange that I am feeding/watering so infrequently. Below are dates I have

"https://ilgm.com/blog/marijuana-grow-course/from-seed-to-bud/flowering-week-3-and-4"

"The plants now use a lot of water, so make sure they never go without and that the soil is always a bit moist."?
~ that sounds like a recipe for fungi gnatos no?

"Reach your hand halfway down the pot and lift them out of the pot often to check the humidity."?
~ uhh what? no way

"It’s better to water them a bit every day than water them a lot every 5 days."
~ Is this true in living soil?

 

[Aqua Man]

Thanks much and G-money. I am hoping looks aren't deceiving yet again. I have had too much experience than I'd like to admit with things appearing better than they turned out. My last grow for instance, I moved plants from 1 tent to another and sent into slight reveg due to supreme stoner move of not realizing 2nd tent timer was set to half hour or more of light than not. Caused them to take forever which I wouldn't have minded so much if weren't for that the THC was the lowest of any grow yet. Very low trich production that really affected the turn-out.
Now I'm 3 weeks into flower and am thinkin I should have more trichs. I am constantly at odds with whether cooler temps or hotter temps are more ideal now. Also I know that it technically gets warmer and cooler throughout the days if they were outdoors, but generally it would ramp up to a peak and then cool down. With my current situation I have them moving easily 5-8 degrees up and down like 5-10 times a day while lights are on. I am just not able with what I have to make the tents be automatically maintaining an ideal temp and rh.
Will it affect trich production negatively because it swings so often?
With these LEDs(HLG Blackbird and Phlizon FD-8000) should I take into account leaf temps more than what my tents sensor and other hygrometers say?
My leaf temps appear to be 2-4 on avg lower than tents say. If leaf temps count more then what should I shoot for3 weeks into flower? 77-78?
Is it common for the plants not to be giving off ANY distinct smells yet? Even if carefully rub where trichs are forming there really isn't anything. The Bubba Kush I "thought" I smelled bubblegum and almost fell over and then couldn't smell it again
How do I increase trich production
Know I asked a lot but any help from my fam out there is welcomed and appreciated

Pic is of a Black Domina branch I have named after the late @NinjaDip
View attachment 5437

Jesus man those plants are ridiculously nice… oh and i live the awesome grow room guardians. Im gonna have to find that chia pet now cause the lady says so lol

 

[Aqua Man]

Is this hogwash? Lookin for info on weeks 3 and 4 in flower and I'm fore sure taking 5+ days to water. These AC infinity pots retain moisture like no other fabric pot I have tried and have tried 3 or 4. Am I ok doing what I'm doing or is it really strange that I am feeding/watering so infrequently. Below are dates I have

"https://ilgm.com/blog/marijuana-grow-course/from-seed-to-bud/flowering-week-3-and-4"

"The plants now use a lot of water, so make sure they never go without and that the soil is always a bit moist."?
~ that sounds like a recipe for fungi gnatos no?

"Reach your hand halfway down the pot and lift them out of the pot often to check the humidity."?
~ uhh what? no way

"It’s better to water them a bit every day than water them a lot every 5 days."
~ Is this true in living soil?

After watering tilt the pot on a 45 degree angle that will cause more runoff thats to that little things called a water table. This will speed up the dry backs to help with balancing o2. Your doing organic right?

 

[Coco Lopez]

After watering tilt the pot on a 45 degree angle that will cause more runoff thats to that little things called a water table. This will speed up the dry backs to help with balancing o2. Your doing organic right?

Hmm ok good idea and I know you are onto something there and I can do that with 1 tent easily. This is also the only grow I have ever had where pots are not on risers. I did that intentionally and bought super cheap clear saucers so could bottom feed when wanted, which I also had never done till this grow.
My tent with the shorter plants is no longer under any sort of trellis. I actually rotated them 180 today because could. They are mobile enough now that I could use 4 risers and different saucers but then I can't bottom feed if wanted. The larger tent that is under my 196 square trellis I would be worried about trying to lift them to get new saucers with risers under them.
Yeah I am in organic soil or so I think. There have been at least 3 times where 10 days passed without feeding or watering at all. Never did any leaves droop and I was always going by pot weight and never let them even fully dry. Now I am thinking maybe I have been majorly dropping the ball without knowing it

 

[Coco Lopez]

Jesus man those plants are ridiculously nice… oh and i live the awesome grow room guardians. Im gonna have to find that chia pet now cause the lady says so lol

Ok that's it if you think they are looking good then I just need to stay the course. I just lifted the pots in the small tent and they are still quite heavy and were watered Monday. I will keep close eye and likely water on Monday again.

Yes the tent Guardians/Minions are a must for me. I consider them grow companions and part of my IPM. If there are any pests they share some responsibility
That is awesome the lady has green-lighted a Chia. Cool thing is they come with enough seeds you can regrow them 3-4 times. I believe mine has passed its time and is time to re-Chia

Should I trust leaf temps more than tent temps and if so what is ideal in your opinion under LED's that are unfortunately set to 600 or less PPFD to the center? Is 77-78 the safest zone?

 

[Aqua Man]

Hmm ok good idea and I know you are onto something there and I can do that with 1 tent easily. This is also the only grow I have ever had where pots are not on risers. I did that intentionally and bought super cheap clear saucers so could bottom feed when wanted, which I also had never done till this grow.
My tent with the shorter plants is no longer under any sort of trellis. I actually rotated them 180 today because could. They are mobile enough now that I could use 4 risers and different saucers but then I can't bottom feed if wanted. The larger tent that is under my 196 square trellis I would be worried about trying to lift them to get new saucers with risers under them.
Yeah I am in organic soil or so I think. There have been at least 3 times where 10 days passed without feeding or watering at all. Never did any leaves droop and I was always going by pot weight and never let them even fully dry. Now I am thinking maybe I have been majorly dropping the ball without knowing it

Oh yeah bro you want risers beyond any doubt… im not a fan of bottom watering as it leaves the top part of the soil to dry and bottom to wet… flood and drain yes because you can flood higher to eliminate that.

 

[Aqua Man]

Ok that's it if you think they are looking good then I just need to stay the course. I just lifted the pots in the small tent and they are still quite heavy and were watered Monday. I will keep close eye and likely water on Monday again.

Yes the tent Guardians/Minions are a must for me. I consider them grow companions and part of my IPM. If there are any pests they share some responsibility
That is awesome the lady has green-lighted a Chia. Cool thing is they come with enough seeds you can regrow them 3-4 times. I believe mine has passed its time and is time to re-Chia

Should I trust leaf temps more than tent temps and if so what is ideal in your opinion under LED's that are unfortunately set to 600 or less PPFD to the center? Is 77-78 the safest zone?

Leaf temp always bro… 75-78

 

[Coco Lopez]

Oh yeah bro you want risers beyond any doubt… im not a fan of bottom watering as it leaves the top part of the soil to dry and bottom to wet… flood and drain yes because you can flood higher to eliminate that.

Roger that and thank you. I have located said gear and cleansed. I now however am faced with a conundrum. I only have 4 of them but 8 plants. Do I take the easy route, place in "Squatter" tent that has no trellis, and say yeah this is best because they need the most help. Or do I take much tougher route, and use in larger tent that appears on pace to yield 2, 3, maybe FIVE times more since I should be using the risers for sure anyway? I guess I could attempt to employ my bae Wendy's help trying to lift plants and slide risers underneath. It is just all the lil small nuglets that may get smooshed by the net that scares me
I know I could get 4 more risers and saucers but they were kinda prciey if I recall.
My decision is completely in your hands good sir @Aqua Man and bitch either way I will not. If it were your grows, which tent would you use the gear in right meow?

 

[Aqua Man]

Roger that and thank you. I have located said gear and cleansed. I now however am faced with a conundrum. I only have 4 of them but 8 plants. Do I take the easy route, place in "Squatter" tent that has no trellis, and say yeah this is best because they need the most help. Or do I take much tougher route, and use in larger tent that appears on pace to yield 2, 3, maybe FIVE times more since I should be using the risers for sure anyway? I guess I could attempt to employ my bae Wendy's help trying to lift plants and slide risers underneath. It is just all the lil small nuglets that may get smooshed by the net that scares me
I know I could get 4 more risers and saucers but they were kinda prciey if I recall.
My decision is completely in your hands good sir @Aqua Man and bitch either way I will not. If it were your grows, which tent would you use the gear in right meow?
View attachment 5455View attachment 5456
View attachment 5457View attachment 5458View attachment 5459View attachment 5460

As they grow into the pots the water conundrum will correct itself and no linger need ti tip them.

You can put anything under them that allows airflow. I used to use light diffuser eggcrate…. Cheap and easy.

Also i think you can bump your ppfd up if you can. If not thats ok too

 

[Coco Lopez]

As they grow into the pots the water conundrum will correct itself and no linger need ti tip them.

Must be honest but unclear on this. what do you mean y once they grow into the pots?

You can put anything under them that allows airflow. I used to use light diffuser eggcrate…. Cheap and easy.

ooO good thinking and like it. I could see that being the perfect base for the entire tent

PLASKOLITE 4 ft. x 2 ft. Suspended Egg Crate Light Ceiling Panel 1199233A - The Home Depot

Visit the Home Depot to buy PLASKOLITE 4 ft. x 2 ft. Suspended Light Ceiling Panel 1199233A

www.homedepot.com

Also i think you can bump your ppfd up if you can. If not thats ok too

Ok I moved both tents centers up as close to 25ppfd as could, to 625ish. I will try that for 3 days in a row and see how they respond.

Thanks much for the help. Phase 1 complete and smaller tent is now set with air-flow to roots.

 

[Aqua Man]

Must be honest but unclear on this. what do you mean y once they grow into the pots?

ooO good thinking and like it. I could see that being the perfect base for the entire tent

PLASKOLITE 4 ft. x 2 ft. Suspended Egg Crate Light Ceiling Panel 1199233A - The Home Depot

Visit the Home Depot to buy PLASKOLITE 4 ft. x 2 ft. Suspended Light Ceiling Panel 1199233A

www.homedepot.com

Ok I moved both tents centers up as close to 25ppfd as could, to 625ish. I will try that for 3 days in a row and see how they respond.

Thanks much for the help. Phase 1 complete and smaller tent is now set with air-flow to roots.View attachment 5472

Once the plants are larger and have more foliage thier uptake of water will significantly increase. The total leaf surface area of a plant is directly related to how much water they will uptake. After a big defoliation you will be able to easily see this.

Other factor like VPD, tenp and light also impact this but by far and away the total leaf surface area will be the largestest contributor to this

 

[Coco Lopez]

Once the plants are larger and have more foliage thier uptake of water will significantly increase. The total leaf surface area of a plant is directly related to how much water they will uptake. After a big defoliation you will be able to easily see this.

Other factor like VPD, tenp and light also impact this but by far and away the total leaf surface area will be the largestest contributor to this

Uhhhhmmm like wait what? I read that like 10000% mano e mano brain to brain except the "After a big defoliation you will be able to easily see this" made my heart skip a beat. Day 22 of flower and I whacked them pretty good for what meant to be last time, and thought I did "ok" but now I am thinking "f me runnin, if Aqua just said that then I am about to lose half my harvest by my leafs covering too many bud sights"
okokok so this brings me to the ultimate question. Would you say maybe the best advice is to strip ALL fan leaves connected directly to main stem off, except the top 2-3 sets no matter what?

 

[Aqua Man]

Uhhhhmmm like wait what? I read that like 10000% mano e mano brain to brain except the "After a big defoliation you will be able to easily see this" made my heart skip a beat. Day 22 of flower and I whacked them pretty good for what meant to be last time, and thought I did "ok" but now I am thinking "f me runnin, if Aqua just said that then I am about to lose half my harvest by my leafs covering too many bud sights"
okokok so this brings me to the ultimate question. Would you say maybe the best advice is to strip ALL fan leaves connected directly to main stem off, except the top 2-3 sets no matter what?

I always defoliate based in what i see from the genetics… this is basically what i do. Now there is evidence that mass defoliation under the right environment and at the right time can positively improve quality… my feeling is that comes at a price of yield in some way shape or form… @tobh and @Dirtbag and @pk1 are the 3 here i know that have dabbled with it.

This is a thread i did on how, when and why i defoliate and which leaves i select and why. Every genetic is different

Cannabis defoliation (The Basics) by Aqua Man

So let me explain defoliation in a way that will allow you to know how and when to defoliate. This is basic and wont include crop steering methods. You need to get a good base understanding and practice first imo before going all ham on advanced techniques. This is for i door plants only...

budbuilders.org

 

[Aqua Man]

@Coco Lopez how you tie that in is photosynthesis drives transpiration. Transpiration is the movement of water from the roots and expels it out through the stomata of the leaves….. thus the more total leaf surface area of a plant the more potential transpiration

 

[Coco Lopez]

I always defoliate based in what i see from the genetics… this is basically what i do. Now there is evidence that mass defoliation under the right environment and at the right time can positively improve quality… my feeling is that comes at a price of yield in some way shape or form… @tobh and @Dirtbag and @pk1 are the 3 here i know that have dabbled with it.

This is a thread i did on how, when and why i defoliate and which leaves i select and why. Every genetic is different

Cannabis defoliation (The Basics) by Aqua Man

So let me explain defoliation in a way that will allow you to know how and when to defoliate. This is basic and wont include crop steering methods. You need to get a good base understanding and practice first imo before going all ham on advanced techniques. This is for i door plants only...

budbuilders.org

Bro you are sick with it. You are so dirt nasty there is solid chance you are illegal in most countries. Like Herbal Black Ops-style. I've thrown it down before but no better time than the present. You are a Herbal Pimp Master Funk, period.

Interesting thing about this band. My Cousin Johnny was in LA then and still is now. He played the Roxy at about this time and other wild strip-like places. Crazyyy times no doubt

Edit: Out of respect for our female and/or age restricted members, video/song placed back on shelf

 

[Aqua Man]

Bro you are sick with it. You are so dirt nasty there is solid chance you are illegal in most countries. Like Herbal Black Ops-style. I've thrown it down before but no better time than the present. You are a Herbal Pimp Master Funk, period.

Interesting thing about this band. My Cousin Johnny was in LA then and still is now. He played the Roxy at about this time and other wild strip-like places. Crazyyy times no doubt

Its age restricted…. Im not allowed lol. Maybe because im immature for my age but i jist tell ppl i dont have any social media accounts so i cant sign in… truth

 

[Coco Lopez]

@Coco Lopez how you tie that in is photosynthesis drives transpiration. Transpiration is the movement of water from the roots and expels it out through the stomata of the leaves….. thus the more total leaf surface area of a plant the more potential transpiration

That makes total sense to me and I almost feel "one with the flow" even though I seem quite helpless. Where "I think" I am failing most at the moment is how with 8 different strains expressing their own characteristics, how to discern between too little and too much. Take these 2 for instance, Big Bud vs Imperium X. Big bud seems to say "hey man, it is what it is. We have a set or 2 below you could/should pluck but other than that bro back off and let us roll" while Imperium X says "F Yo Couch man, back off or I net you 2 grams of mildew"

 

[Aqua Man]

So just to further elaborate incase you wonder… water is pulled through the plant. Stomata regulate this flow.

How it works is in the presence of light the stomata open (mainly the blue spectrum is responsible for this but other factors like potassium is important to the the process too but i wont get into that)
So the stomata open and now equilibrium takes the reigns and gas and water vapour are exchanged. The wider the opening of the stomata the more gas and water vapour exchange can occur. The plant will regulate the stomatal opening size to regulate this flow of water.

Thats where VPD comes in as the water vapour tries to equalize. The leaf is always 100% humidity and the air is not so the water vapour always flows out if the plant (over95% of the water taken up by a plant is released this way) a low humidity will pull more water and nutrients through the plant than a high humidity.

In low humidity the plants roots may not be able to accommodate the amount of water required to keep up this effort to equalize with the environment and will start to close the stomata to regukate water loss. This also happens if there is not enough available water in the media and you will see the leaves droop like on a hit sunny day outside.

The opposite if humidity is high. The plants open stomata but very little water movement because the humidity is closer to the plants humidity and that means less water transport and nutrients.

Now there can be water forced into the plant from the roots from root pressure even if the stomata are closed. This is usually for overly saturated media that has a high water table. That can lead to guttation when stomata are closed like in the absence of light. To deal with that the plant has pressure relief valves at the tips of the serrations on the leaves… you will see it at sap droplets usually first thing after lights on before it evaporates and its a good indicator that you media is to wet over the dark period. This is why its ideal to water close to light on for media with a higher water table.

Ok fuck im rambling on something fierce here…. Its all one big circle and everything effects everything but if you can understand how then diagnosing olants is super simple

 

[Aqua Man]

That makes total sense to me and I almost feel "one with the flow" even though I seem quite helpless. Where "I think" I am failing most at the moment is how with 8 different strains expressing their own characteristics, how to discern between too little and too much. Take these 2 for instance, Big Bud vs Imperium X. Big bud seems to say "hey man, it is what it is. We have a set or 2 below you could/should pluck but other than that bro back off and let us roll" while Imperium X says "F Yo Couch man, back off or I net you 2 grams of mildew"View attachment 5476View attachment 5477

One thing that helps and shocks most people is how humid it is around the leaves… thats the important part not room humidity so much. If you take a tiny humidity gaige and put it inside the olants at different places you can see how well your airflow is and make those adjustments to defoliation, fans and equipment to make it more ideal.

Leaf temp and humidity inside the plants are more important than that of the room. You do what you need to adjust those.

 

[Coco Lopez]

So just to further elaborate incase you wonder… water is pulled through the plant. Stomata regulate this flow.

How it works is in the presence of light the stomata open (mainly the blue spectrum is responsible for this but other factors like potassium is important to the the process too but i wont get into that)
So the stomata open and now equilibrium takes the reigns and gas and water vapour are exchanged. The wider the opening of the stomata the more gas and water vapour exchange can occur. The plant will regulate the stomatal opening size to regulate this flow of water.

Thats where VPD comes in as the water vapour tries to equalize. The leaf is always 100% humidity and the air is not so the water vapour always flows out if the plant (over95% of the water taken up by a plant is released this way) a low humidity will pull more water and nutrients through the plant than a high humidity.

In low humidity the plants roots may not be able to accommodate the amount of water required to keep up this effort to equalize with the environment and will start to close the stomata to regukate water loss. This also happens if there is not enough available water in the media and you will see the leaves droop like on a hit sunny day outside.

The opposite if humidity is high. The plants open stomata but very little water movement because the humidity is closer to the plants humidity and that means less water transport and nutrients.

Now there can be water forced into the plant from the roots from root pressure even if the stomata are closed. This is usually for overly saturated media that has a high water table. That can lead to guttation when stomata are closed like in the absence of light. To deal with that the plant has pressure relief valves at the tips of the serrations on the leaves… you will see it at sap droplets usually first thing after lights on before it evaporates and its a good indicator that you media is to wet over the dark period. This is why its ideal to water close to light on for media with a higher water table.

Ok fuck im rambling on something fierce here…. Its all one big circle and everything effects everything but if you can understand how then diagnosing olants is super simple

Not a letter typed in vain. You often forget "rambling from you" is straight PRICELESS to others. Picking up what you throwin down man, big-time

 

[Dirtbag]

I always defoliate based in what i see from the genetics… this is basically what i do. Now there is evidence that mass defoliation under the right environment and at the right time can positively improve quality… my feeling is that comes at a price of yield in some way shape or form… @tobh and @Dirtbag and @pk1 are the 3 here i know that have dabbled with it.

This is a thread i did on how, when and why i defoliate and which leaves i select and why. Every genetic is different

Cannabis defoliation (The Basics) by Aqua Man

So let me explain defoliation in a way that will allow you to know how and when to defoliate. This is basic and wont include crop steering methods. You need to get a good base understanding and practice first imo before going all ham on advanced techniques. This is for i door plants only...

budbuilders.org

One of these days I'll write up a "how to" about intensive defoliation. In my experience the yield increased by doing it, but it does affect the overall bud sizes somewhat, and it requires very accurate timing, and super healthy plants. A few other tweaks help make it successful. It's by a long shot my favourite way to maximize yield and crop consistency indoors.

 

[Aqua Man]

One of these days I'll write up a "how to" about intensive defoliation. In my experience the yield increased by doing it, but it does affect the overall bud sizes somewhat, and it requires very accurate timing, and super healthy plants. A few other tweaks help make it successful. It's by a long shot my favourite way to maximize yield and crop consistency indoors.

Tag me when you do brother…. Im super interested in it i just don’t have that experience or knowledge yet. Like i say ya dont know what ya dont know until you know what you didn’t know…

I wanna be in the know on that stuff. I understand how it all works from the mechanics but not the timing and specific stress response to each kind of the kinds of stress and when to apply them

 

[Dirtbag]

Tag me when you do brother…. Im super interested in it i just don’t have that experience or knowledge yet. Like i say ya dont know what ya dont know until you know what you didn’t know…

I wanna be in the know on that stuff. I understand how it all works from the mechanics but not the timing and specific stress response to each kind of the kinds of stress and when to apply them

Buddy when you try it you'll be amazed. In your type of environment with RDWC and Co2 it would be impressive. Even in a vented rockwool grow I was massively surprised with the results. Was highly skeptical going into it. But I'm thoroughly convinced of its benefits.

 

[Aqua Man]

Buddy when you try it you'll be amazed. In your type of environment with RDWC and Co2 it would be impressive. Even in a vented rockwool grow I was massively surprised with the results. Was highly skeptical going into it. But I'm thoroughly convinced of its benefits.

You know many make a lot of claims but i can 100% get behind that because you have never once in the time I’ve known you not called shit the way it is.

Im about a month or 2 from go time… would you suggest coco high fertigation or RDWC. Ill plan for 1 style right now even though ill likely do both right off the bat.

If you wouldn’t mind walking me through as i go i would sure appreciate that as im sure timing is critical

 

[Coco Lopez]

One thing that helps and shocks most people is how humid it is around the leaves… thats the important part not room humidity so much. If you take a tiny humidity gaige and put it inside the olants at different places you can see how well your airflow is and make those adjustments to defoliation, fans and equipment to make it more ideal.

Leaf temp and humidity inside the plants are more important than that of the room. You do what you need to adjust those.

Great info and makes total sense. Seems much more important to check those most dense of areas then to assume whole tent is what your hygrometer says

One of these days I'll write up a "how to" about intensive defoliation. In my experience the yield increased by doing it, but it does affect the overall bud sizes somewhat, and it requires very accurate timing, and super healthy plants. A few other tweaks help make it successful. It's by a long shot my favourite way to maximize yield and crop consistency indoors.

Hell yeah man please do. I am guessing but would you say it involves a more aggressive defoliation at the right time then less? I am 23 days into flower, am worried about injuring the plant further with more defoliation, but know I have WAY too many large fans leaves than I should. If I recall, I have read quite a few that said it was easy to keep it simple and strip all large fan leaves directly attached to a main branch, except the top 2 or 3 sets. Is that true/advised ever?

 

[Rootsruler]

I've been very interested in how humidity plays a role on nutrient uptake along with defoliation.

As in everything, there is a limit and a balance that needs to be factored in but, in general, would you say that low humidity within the canopy is generally more beneficial in regards to nutrient uptake? Do growth stages have a part to play in humidity levels? Early veg seems to really like a high humidity environment but doing that would counter your aim which is to move as much available nutrient ion into the plant to make it available for the photosynthetic process which should in turn increase the speed and vitality of the plant.

As far as defol, I've been very curious about schwazzing which is an extreme defol. What is perplexing is, on the one hand, as Aquaman stated, more leaf surface means more photosynthesis which would mean more available food for the plant but that would contradict the defol process other an defol to avoid infection/pest issues. The only other thing I can think of would be the stress reaction the plant may be exhibiting.

 

[Aqua Man]

I've been very interested in how humidity plays a role on nutrient uptake along with defoliation.

As in everything, there is a limit and a balance that needs to be factored in but, in general, would you say that low humidity within the canopy is generally more beneficial in regards to nutrient uptake? Do growth stages have a part to play in humidity levels? Early veg seems to really like a high humidity environment but doing that would counter your aim which is to move as much available nutrient ion into the plant to make it available for the photosynthetic process which should in turn increase the speed and vitality of the plant.

As far as defol, I've been very curious about schwazzing which is an extreme defol. What is perplexing is, on the one hand, as Aquaman stated, more leaf surface means more photosynthesis which would mean more available food for the plant but that would contradict the defol process other an defol to avoid infection/pest issues. The only other thing I can think of would be the stress reaction the plant may be exhibiting.

Have you read my thread on VPD.

 

[Rootsruler]

Have you read my thread on VPD.

I haven't. I'll go through it and see if it answers some of the questions I have.

 

[Aqua Man]

I've been very interested in how humidity plays a role on nutrient uptake along with defoliation.

As in everything, there is a limit and a balance that needs to be factored in but, in general, would you say that low humidity within the canopy is generally more beneficial in regards to nutrient uptake? Do growth stages have a part to play in humidity levels? Early veg seems to really like a high humidity environment but doing that would counter your aim which is to move as much available nutrient ion into the plant to make it available for the photosynthetic process which should in turn increase the speed and vitality of the plant.

As far as defol, I've been very curious about schwazzing which is an extreme defol. What is perplexing is, on the one hand, as Aquaman stated, more leaf surface means more photosynthesis which would mean more available food for the plant but that would contradict the defol process other an defol to avoid infection/pest issues. The only other thing I can think of would be the stress reaction the plant may be exhibiting.

Also the more foliage the more energy the plant needs. So the goal is really to keep the most photosynthetic leaves while removing energy sinks

 

[Aqua Man]

I haven't. I'll go through it and see if it answers some of the questions I have.

Yeah if you have any questions just let me know