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Fear and Loathing in Las Phoenix

Aqua Man said:
Also the more foliage the more energy the plant needs. So the goal is really to keep the most photosynthetic leaves while removing energy sinks
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AFAIUI, water leaves take the most energy to maintain yet they usually have the largest leaf surface to photosynthesize. How do you determine which way to go?

I was taught a general way to defoliate but, as you said, genetics is a factor in that.
 
Rootsruler said:
AFAIUI, water leaves take the most energy to maintain yet they usually have the largest leaf surface to photosynthesize. How do you determine which way to go?

I was taught a general way to defoliate but, as you said, genetics is a factor in that.
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How i do it.

Cannabis defoliation (The Basics) by Aqua Man

So let me explain defoliation in a way that will allow you to know how and when to defoliate. This is basic and wont include crop steering methods. You need to get a good base understanding and practice first imo before going all ham on advanced techniques. This is for i door plants only...
budbuilders.org budbuilders.org
 
Aqua Man said:
How i do it.

Cannabis defoliation (The Basics) by Aqua Man

So let me explain defoliation in a way that will allow you to know how and when to defoliate. This is basic and wont include crop steering methods. You need to get a good base understanding and practice first imo before going all ham on advanced techniques. This is for i door plants only...
budbuilders.org budbuilders.org
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Ok...pretty much the way I do it although I learned that I don't need to restrict my defoliation to a certain time period.
 
Coco Lopez said:
Day 21F update

Sup BBfamdamly, happy friday out there and hopin you are makin the most of it. Things aight on here in the desert and doin best not to burn away.

Monday I top dressed and watered in slowly. I am just doing my best to relax and not get in my own way. I've kinda given up on the Imperium X for now as it is a bush of leaves I am baffled by. Supposedly 65/35 sativa yet expresseses pheno of 200% indica. Crazy how you just never know when grow random beans. The tiniest plant of all that I would have been happy if harvested an 1/8th from and didn't expect would make it, is taller than the other 3 in the tent. I'm really looking forward to the next genetics I am going to run. All I can say is ABS(apple Banana Shugga)and GSK(Grape Shugga Kake) are exactly what I need. Ridiculously tolerant and back-tested out here and 2 of the frostiest ever seen.
View attachment 5342
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looking PRIMO man, those are gonna be some righteous colas. :D
 
I wish I had more time on my hands to chime in with more detail.
The main misconception I see about defoliation is that it leaves no leaves. But the leaves grow back super fast, just in a different spot more local to the developing buds. That's why timing is key, I aim to do the first major strip down a few days before I flip, removing every single leaf except for the 2 or 3 small emerging leaves at the tips of each branch..
Then at 21 days I fully strip every single leaf thats not directly connected to a budsite. Generally speaking, if it has a petiole I can grab, it's gone. However every single node is left to grow. Only the leaves get pinched.

Both times the plant will re-foliate within a week or so,
but the canopy will have WAY better airflow and light penetration. The tops won't get as big as a regular untouched plant, but every bud down to the bottom will be well filled out and equally ripened. That's where the increase in yield comes from. And humidity is a shitload easier to control.

Combined with other crop steering techniques like generative and vegetative feedings and temperature manipulation, you can really get some gnarly results.
 
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Pics from last grow.

Near the end of veg20211129_201343.jpg
First strip a few days before flip20211129_221004.jpg

About a week and a half later, about 7 days flower20211207_171910.jpg

The 3 week strip, although i thought i stripped harder than this. I think this grow i left the top 2 or 3 leaves on each branch and stripped underneath.20211219_171651.jpg

The crop before harvest20220204_142744.jpg
 
Dirtbag said:
Pics from last grow.

Near the end of vegView attachment 5582
First strip a few days before flipView attachment 5583

About a week and a half later, about 7 days flowerView attachment 5584

The 3 week strip, although i thought i stripped harder than this. I think this grow i left the top 2 or 3 leaves on each branch and stripped underneath.View attachment 5585

The crop before harvestView attachment 5586
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OMG! This needs to be immortalized!:D

Excellent explanation and the visuals just bring it home. THIS is how I will defol my next run. I've pretty much been doing a variation of this just not quite as hard at any of those junctures but seeing your pics gives me the confidence, and the knowledge, as to when and how much to take. Thank You!!
 
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Sick fkin info yall and @Dirtbag those visuals and your explanation were stacked! This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I am now confident to strip a lot of leaves I know were simply going to cause lower sights, above my scrog, to not get adequate light and be under-developed. I have 90 minutes till lights off and will do before and after.

🙌 Let it be known I have finally achieved herbal nirvana with this grow. I rushed into tent when lights came on this morning, rubbed baby Bubba Kush lightly where her trichs are forming and took a big wiff. YATZE! PINK BUBBALICIOUS BUBBLEGUM :love::love::love:
 
Keep in mind I was using rockwool, not sure what methods you guys use but it's best suited to a fast growing media like coco, rockwool, dwc etc. Low cec. You kinda need to rely on chelated nutrients in a low cec medium to make it work on the timelines we want.
I think that grow I actually stripped the nodes too in the first strip. Everything up to the tip of each branch.
 
Dirtbag said:
Keep in mind I was using rockwool, not sure what methods you guys use but it's best suited to a fast growing media like coco, rockwool, dwc etc. Low cec. You kinda need to rely on chelated nutrients in a low cec medium to make it work on the timelines we want.
I think that grow I actually stripped the nodes too in the first strip. Everything up to the tip of each branch.
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Normally im one to say that leaf stripping is dumb as fk. But dammit, youve got me eating that one brother. Damn nice grow 🤩
 
Dirtbag said:
Keep in mind I was using rockwool, not sure what methods you guys use but it's best suited to a fast growing media like coco, rockwool, dwc etc. Low cec. You kinda need to rely on chelated nutrients in a low cec medium to make it work on the timelines we want.
I think that grow I actually stripped the nodes too in the first strip. Everything up to the tip of each branch.
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We have the same defoil schedule but I do have to question that heavy of a defoil when in soil. I did that one time a sort of swazzing technique, I won’t do it again. They didn’t grow back fast enough. (They looked like plucked chickens )
Beautiful plants!
 
CannaGranny said:
We have the same defoil schedule but I do have to question that heavy of a defoil when in soil. I did that one time a sort of swazzing technique, I won’t do it again. They didn’t grow back fast enough.
Beautiful plants!
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Yeah i know exactly what he is talking about… you can too defoliate etc in say hydro and the plants don’t even blink… even when i did peat you could visibly see the recovery time was much longer… nevermind soil
 
Aqua Man said:
Yeah i know exactly what he is talking about… you can too defoliate etc in say hydro and the plants don’t even blink… even when i did peat you could visibly see the recovery time was much longer… nevermind soil
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My last defoil is at three weeks in flower. I popped their lil Jammie’s right off. Oh Man, what a mess I ended up with! I screwed an entire grow. The leaves did not recover fast enough and it looked like it was starved to death.
I could for sure see how this is doable providing the medium cooperated. He has some gorgeous plants!
 
CannaGranny said:
We have the same defoil schedule but I do have to question that heavy of a defoil when in soil. I did that one time a sort of swazzing technique, I won’t do it again. They didn’t grow back fast enough. (They looked like plucked chickens )
Beautiful plants!
Click to expand...
Yeah I wouldn't recommend it in soil, or soiless for that matter. You want to take the ion exchange capacity out of the equation.
 
Coco Lopez said:
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! Sick fkin info yall and @Dirtbag those visuals and your explanation were stacked! This is exactly what I was hoping to hear. I am now confident to strip a lot of leaves I know were simply going to cause lower sights, above my scrog, to not get adequate light and be under-developed. I have 90 minutes till lights off and will do before and after.

🙌 Let it be known I have finally achieved herbal nirvana with this grow. I rushed into tent when lights came on this morning, rubbed baby Bubba Kush lightly where her trichs are forming and took a big wiff. YATZE! PINK BUBBALICIOUS BUBBLEGUM :love::love::love:
Click to expand...
Oh gads I know this one… he is in there right now stripping leaves like a madman.
 
CannaGranny said:
We have the same defoil schedule but I do have to question that heavy of a defoil when in soil. I did that one time a sort of swazzing technique, I won’t do it again. They didn’t grow back fast enough. (They looked like plucked chickens )
Beautiful plants!
Click to expand...
Completely agree but seeing it in action I can now modify it to what I have been doing. I saw his setup so it clued me in as to the growth performance level he is at and the regrowth that he experiences vs dirt which, as you mentioned, would be slower due to CEC.

Schwazz is something I'd still like to try, maybe do a test in one of the 2 x 2's but his explanation shows me how much I can take off in relation to the media being used. I wouldn't go quite as hard but I see what he means about the location of where you want to leave leaf material and where you don't want it.
 
I did a bro science defoliation trial over at the other place, 2 plants that were def on or about first day of flower and then again on day 21 yielded less than the 2 plants that weren't defoliated by about 20 %. Trial was inconclusive imo, just too many variables. Crop steering involves defoliation but its much more.
 
CannaGranny said:
Oh gads I know this one… he is in there right now stripping leaves like a madman.
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hah well it appears the man upstairs had other plans. For shame @NinjaDip, for shame 😭

I was just getting started and what do you know, the Sensei Seeds Black Domina fem that Ninja gifted me, has decided to have a party and attempt to pollinate the entire tent. I'm not even sure how I am focused enough to type this right now but yup, I feel I just ruined my entire grow of 2 tents. I was as careful as possible but seeing pollen drop when cutting the branches off to get it out of the scrog and out of the tent, let's just say I'm less than happy right now. I checked all other plants and they seem fine but it is likely a matter of time that they all get pollinated no?
 
Coco Lopez said:
hah well it appears the man upstairs had other plans. For shame @NinjaDip, for shame 😭

I was just getting started and what do you know, the Sensei Seeds Black Domina fem that Ninja gifted me, has decided to have a party and attempt to pollinate the entire tent. I'm not even sure how I am focused enough to type this right now but yup, I feel I just ruined my entire grow of 2 tents. I was as careful as possible but seeing pollen drop when cutting the branches off to get it out of the scrog and out of the tent, let's just say I'm less than happy right now. I checked all other plants and they seem fine but it is likely a matter of time that they all get pollinated no?
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You're probably fine. I thought the same when the GG4 tent decided to have a sausage party. When I culled the males I tried to do it as carefully as I could but I saw pollen pods popping. I was sure I was going to get a tent full of seeds but you saw the frost nuggets that came from that.

Look on the bright side. You may have just created one of the most fire ass strains around!!! 😉
 
Rootsruler said:
You're probably fine. I thought the same when the GG4 tent decided to have a sausage party. When I culled the males I tried to do it as carefully as I could but I saw pollen pods popping. I was sure I was going to get a tent full of seeds but you saw the frost nuggets that came from that.

Look on the bright side. You may have just created one of the most fire ass strains around!!! 😉
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Thanks man and I love your optimism. Also great to know it isn't a sure thing they will all go full RuPaul.
Ooo a possible cross you say? 🤣 Let's hope not I like where your head is at. What a bummer though, she/he/they/it was lookin great till today. I have been paying close attention and let my guard down on that plant for like 2-3 days and boom. Think I'm going to set alarm to check every frigging morning now. This has to be genetics no? I have done literally the same thing to 7 other plants. Is there a chance that switching rhe HLG Blackbird out for the phlizon fd8000, even if set to near identical ppfd, could have caused the herm? Now that I think about it the timing would make sense
 
Coco Lopez said:
Thanks man and I love your optimism. Also great to know it isn't a sure thing they will all go full RuPaul.
Ooo a possible cross you say? 🤣 Let's hope not I like where your head is at. What a bummer though, she/he/they/it was lookin great till today. I have been paying close attention and let my guard down on that plant for like 2-3 days and boom. Think I'm going to set alarm to check every frigging morning now. This has to be genetics no? I have done literally the same thing to 7 other plants. Is there a chance that switching rhe HLG Blackbird out for the phlizon fd8000, even if set to near identical ppfd, could have caused the herm? Now that I think about it the timing would make sense
Click to expand...
Hard to say
 
ZombieRider said:
looking PRIMO man, those are gonna be some righteous colas. :D
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Hey brotha Z thanks man. Was feelin great about the grow and even this morning got 1st expression of scent from any of them. The Bubba Kush smells like pink bubbalicious. Unfortunately though I'm down to 7 now and had to tear down "Mr" Black Domina. What a PITA under scrog and at that stage. I honestly felt I was throwing away a QP of an incredible herb that never was. Each branch I tossed stung a bit more. Seeing pollen makes your heart skip beats. Terribly defeating feeling but I feel better after Roots said it wasn't a death sentence for him
 
Coco Lopez said:
Thanks man and I love your optimism. Also great to know it isn't a sure thing they will all go full RuPaul.
Ooo a possible cross you say? 🤣 Let's hope not I like where your head is at. What a bummer though, she/he/they/it was lookin great till today. I have been paying close attention and let my guard down on that plant for like 2-3 days and boom. Think I'm going to set alarm to check every frigging morning now. This has to be genetics no? I have done literally the same thing to 7 other plants. Is there a chance that switching rhe HLG Blackbird out for the phlizon fd8000, even if set to near identical ppfd, could have caused the herm? Now that I think about it the timing would make sense
Click to expand...
Relax my Guy! I'm sure they'll be fine.....BTW if they do cross you have your new strain name....RuPaul! 🤣
 
Coco Lopez said:
hah well it appears the man upstairs had other plans. For shame @NinjaDip, for shame 😭

I was just getting started and what do you know, the Sensei Seeds Black Domina fem that Ninja gifted me, has decided to have a party and attempt to pollinate the entire tent. I'm not even sure how I am focused enough to type this right now but yup, I feel I just ruined my entire grow of 2 tents. I was as careful as possible but seeing pollen drop when cutting the branches off to get it out of the scrog and out of the tent, let's just say I'm less than happy right now. I checked all other plants and they seem fine but it is likely a matter of time that they all get pollinated no?
Click to expand...
Mist it all down with water before moving the branches next time. Turn off your fans and clean them.
 
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