Gassy Cream Cake Hydro scrog

[Stoneyluv]

Ok no problem you have to pass it the ph value. Can you email me the ino file and I’ll fix it up for ya.

What I sent was pseudo code it needed tweaking based on what you had already, variable names, etc. I should have been more clear. It was intended to describe the logic but not be copy and paste.

i knew my "phValue" needed to be linked somehow.. just wasn't sure where or how many times.

i figured your guide wasn't line for line but some of the caps and colors made me think you laid it out special for a reason.

i've ran all the hardware so far except for the relays thats the only wires i need to connect to the bench test yet.

i really appreciate your help Moe!!!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

i don't have a definitive answer on the pH tests yet. messing with me for sure.. so today after a full 24hrs the RDWC system has not moved at all. it's still 5.8 from when i added 5ml of up yesterday right before the race started. been 27 hours and it's still the same.. IDK it ain't broke so i'm in holding pattern.. i need to go back and look in my notes. Aqua Man taught me something a while back about the affects of water when air is not introduced before the nutes, i can't remember exactly what it was but i might have it written down or typed out. i'll check if i can't find it i'll bug him again on it.. it might be a factor in this. idk

all the other tests seem steady as well, the one that moved the most was the tap water with just ph down, that one drifted up 0.7
and the beaker with just plain tap and nothing added seemed to dive down a bit, i have everything written down and will continue to monitor.
it's enough that i need to do an extra dab or two to keep what little of sanity i have left!!!

it's pouring rain out now so i'm gonna add a beaker of that to the test... no rain collector or plumbing from it, just mother nature falling from the sky.

plants are growing, some slight issues that i'm not to sure about one my be slight mutation and the other might still be my leaf curl issue.. way to early to say for sure but noteworthy nonetheless!

i will say though one goal was for a better root base and not so one stranded.. i gotta say i need to take a mini victory where i can get it!!!

her downstairs first...





her cousins came over to play... a little SIP in soil airpot action!!! Funky Monkey

 

[Stoneyluv]

Racking my brain as to why you are either introducing a strong base or creating a reaction that results in one. This just should not happen with the chemistry as you describe it. There is something happening here that we don’t realize.

I am just trying to figure out what causes water to act like yours is.
No hydro experience at all but I get water.
From my line of sight, I feel there has to be an organic source of rot to cause such a drastic drop.

guys i'm pretty sure there is something in my rdwc system that is the problem. last night at 7pm i said it was fine, at midnight it was 4.8.. i put in a lot of up and some down to try and make a buffer to slow it down but all the samples were and still are perfectly fine. the sample of just the same solution has crept up 0.1. same with the sample with the coco in it, that bumped up .2. all the other samples of water mostly stayed steady. the water with just down came up a little but it was unaerated and the tiniest bit of down lowered the small amount so much i was expecting it to come up a little anyway. it's not diving at all and that was the test.

i didn't pour anything out and will continue the test but my heart sunk last night when that ph was low. i didn't want to believe it and even quickly cleaned and calibrated my ph pen (it was spot on anyway) because i didn't want to believe that rez was really that low, it was. it's fine now at 5.8 but i don't feel good about it and if it's low again tomorrow i will be confident it's something in there.

to be continued...

 

[moe.red]

Man I have thought for the last 2 grows now there was a contamination in your system. I don’t know what. But the curled leaves last grow and this ph thing….

I would think it is fixable but probably not during a grow. I would expect that if you use a strong acid to bring the ph up to 10 and run the system holding it there for a few days it would neutralize the base that is causing your problem. Then run it a couple days with tap water and bleach. Finally draining and reset using rain water. Put in the nutes and get to 5.8 and run it for a couple days without plants. Verify ph sticks now

1 week without plants should reset this system for you I would think.

This sucks man sorry you are going thru this. I have never seen this issue before, new territory for me. I do not know what is causing it.

I used to make biodiesel. Big cone shaped vat that the waste oil goes in then other chemicals get added heated stirred then separated into bio and waste.

At the end there are certain tests you run to verify good product. Been doing it for a while and not having problems. Then all of a sudden I cannot pass a 3:27 test no matter what I do. Driving me insane. Multiple batches fail.

Turns out a rubber hand grip from my dirt bike that was on the shelf over the vat had fallen in at some point when the lid was off. Every time the methoxide got added to start the process it would start eating at the grip and destroying my batch.

I kicked myself for weeks over all the source oil I wasted because of carelessness but at least I had my solution. I think you have a hand grip somewhere in your rdwc. It will be obvious when you finally figure it out but right now it’s a head scratcher.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Man I have thought for the last 2 grows now there was a contamination in your system. I don’t know what. But the curled leaves last grow and this ph thing….

it was all of your first reactions to the symptoms. i probably shouldn't have rushed these plants in there.. rushing to fast always bites me in the ass! i never learn.

I would think it is fixable but probably not during a grow. I would expect that if you use a strong acid to bring the ph up to 10 and run the system holding it there for a few days it would neutralize the base that is causing your problem. Then run it a couple days with tap water and bleach. Finally draining and reset using rain water. Put in the nutes and get to 5.8 and run it for a couple days without plants. Verify ph sticks now

i want to look for whatever it may be, i would think this has to be a chunk or blob or something large enough to be seen?

the whole time release thing is just totally confusing.. i almost want to set up that new ph probe to a logger and let it go for a day and half!! it's like a mouse is peeing in my rez every night when i go to sleep! just weird how it's been doing this exactly every night. so messed up.

1 week without plants should reset this system for you I would think.

i knew this wasn't gonna be quick... sucks!

I used to make biodiesel. Big cone shaped vat that the waste oil goes in then other chemicals get added heated stirred then separated into bio and waste.

At the end there are certain tests you run to verify good product. Been doing it for a while and not having problems. Then all of a sudden I cannot pass a 3:27 test no matter what I do. Driving me insane. Multiple batches fail.

Turns out a rubber hand grip from my dirt bike that was on the shelf over the vat had fallen in at some point when the lid was off. Every time the methoxide got added to start the process it would start eating at the grip and destroying my batch.

I kicked myself for weeks over all the source oil I wasted because of carelessness but at least I had my solution. I think you have a hand grip somewhere in your rdwc. It will be obvious when you finally figure it out but right now it’s a head scratcher.

could my grip possibly be the seal in a can i used? or teflon goop for fitting threads? i mean it didn;t do it before but that don't mean it can't now i guess..

i've seen you using it on your lids so i figured it was okay.. i used the spray.

i didn't go check it yet today, lights just came on now..

 

[moe.red]

could my grip possibly be the seal in a can i used? or teflon goop for fitting threads?

I really wouldn't think so.

OK, first I need to apologize. I have been saying the PH / acid / base thing wrong. Your res is going acidic not basic. I'm a brain fart idiot. I also need to admit this is not the first time I got these wrong. Need to quit shooting from the hip.

Your issue is added acids, not bases, no matter what the idiot posted above. That said, you should probably take everything I post with a grain of salt.

If your water has no hardness which is the case with rain water, it would not take much to make the water drop or raise ph.

Here, listen to someone who does not have their head up the azz syndrome:

1. CO2 Concentration in Water​

The concentration of carbon dioxide (CO2) dissolved in water becomes a factor that affects pH. The reason is carbon dioxide triggers an increase in the concentration of hydrogen ions which makes the pH of the water decrease. That means when carbon dioxide is high, the pH of water automatically becomes acidic. This carbon dioxide can come from the atmosphere and air around polluted water. Apart from pollution, carbon dioxide also comes from the process of plant respiration that occurs at night, where much carbon dioxide is released. This causes the water to have a lower pH than neutral. While during the day, where many plants photosynthesize by releasing oxygen, the pH of the water will rise.

2. Temperature​

The temperature at which water is located affects the solubility of carbon dioxide. When water gets a lot of heat intensity from sunlight, the surface temperature will rise. When the surface temperature of the water rises, the solubility of carbon dioxide will decrease so that the pH will rise and the water is alkaline. Meanwhile, when the temperature and temperature decrease, then the surface temperature of the water will come down and automatically the level of carbon dioxide solubility becomes higher. Therefore, when temperatures are cold, the pH of the water will drop and the water will be acidic.

3. Carbonate and Bicarbonate Concentrations​

Next, the factors that affect pH are carbonate and bicarbonate ions which are basic. If water has a high enough concentration of carbonate and bicarbonate ions, the pH will change. From what was originally neutral, the water will turn into a base.

If initially acidic, it can turn into neutral after receiving additional carbonate ions and bicarbonate ions. Changes in water into a base due to carbonate and bicarbonate ions often occur in water flowing out of the mouth of the cave by passing carbonate rocks that contain calcium.

4. Organic Material Decomposition Process​

Decomposition is the process of decay that occurs in organic matter and living things that are in the water. Because organic matter and living things contain the element carbon (C), so when the decomposition process occurs, there will be a lot of carbon released into the water. However, because organic compounds tend to be unstable and easily oxidized, what enters the water is carbon dioxide and water itself.

Therefore, when there is carbon dioxide entering the water, it is certain that the pH level will change. Water that was originally neutral can become acidic because the dissolved inorganic carbon content can increase hydrogen ions so that the pH will decrease. Therefore, when working in a laboratory or industrial production process, it is better to keep water away from organic materials that can change the initial pH.



So maybe cut the bubbling in half to start with, and make 100% sure there is nothing organic in there to decompose? Maybe the time lag comes from the time the bacteria take to convert organics to waste?

 

[moe.red]

I went back and edited the 2 posts where I said base vs acid for clarity and future readers. Again sorry if I threw you off.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I really wouldn't think so.

i didn't either and it's been in there since day one. just had to ask..

OK, first I need to apologize. I have been saying the PH / acid / base thing wrong. Your res is going acidic not basic. I'm a brain fart idiot. I also need to admit this is not the first time I got these wrong. Need to quit shooting from the hip.

Your issue is added acids, not bases, no matter what the idiot posted above. That said, you should probably take everything I post with a grain of salt.

i totally missed right passed that man, i followed along and understood what you were meaning and never caught the typo!! haha great that you edited it for back reads!!! Thanks!!!

If your water has no hardness which is the case with rain water, it would not take much to make the water drop or raise ph.

Here, listen to someone who does not have their head up the azz syndrome:

thanks a lot for this, some good stuff in here and now bookmarked!!!!

So maybe cut the bubbling in half to start with, and make 100% sure there is nothing organic in there to decompose? Maybe the time lag comes from the time the bacteria take to convert organics to waste?

hmm.. my bubbles are quite strong. now that i think about it Smoke and i had a convo about this once before. I'm using an ALITA 6A pump, this is what i use for my rez and two buckets. sometimes i also bubble the mixing barrel with it too.


so i ran a line from my air manifold to my rain collector and another to a side project to bleed off some air. it's now at least half of what it was. it looks like this now, does this look acceptable?

https://imgur.com/duooTbt

https://imgur.com/4xtNhol

.
.

tonight the rez ph was low again (5.0) the sample of this same solution from days ago hasn't moved. 100% confirmed.



so in a way it good that we know it's the system or in it and what to concentrate on.. and we know it's not my water.

even though we still don't know exactly what it is yet this is still way better than dealing with mites!!! way better!!! HA!

 

[Stoneyluv]

 

[Stoneyluv]

after cleaning everything really good and lowering the air bubbles the ph seems to be controllable. it's at least acting like water now, it's drifting up more than i'd like but i'd rather deal with that versus the hard dive.

i thought just flushing the system out would have cleaned it but i had to drain in out and wipe down every surface and had to remove all the water lines and swab them out along with the recirculation pipes. once every inch was cleaned i wiped it all down again with 12% peroxide and then flushed it all out with fresh water. then drained it all again, wiped it clean with white rags one last time for a finger test and then pumped the solution back in.

the ph is now drifting up around .2-.3 per day, not bad, not great.. the doser will really with this and should be much better for the plants.

as for the plants... well thats the bad news.. i'm pretty sure i gotta start over again. the one is a mutant and just not growing proper. i don't really wanna go forward with only one plant.

i want to test a few things and see whats up before i just dive into a new start again.. i need to make sure the system and lights and nutes and me and everything just jives and is working 100% before i start over.

i'll get some pics up in a day or two.. i mean i could be wrong and she grows out of it.. just don't wanna make an impulse decision again. and i want to be 100% certain the leaf curl is gone and have zero issues. once i know these things i will start new seeds.

 

[Stoneyluv]

something else i forget to mention, i replaced the air stones with brand new ones. i put the old two in muriatic acid a few days ago and they were pretty gross...



i think today is the fourth day now that the ph is tending up. again today it drifted up to 6.2 i add 0.75ml of down and it outs it at 5.8.

other good news is the roots, i'm happy with the results i'm seeing..



i notice a little dark spot, hoping that's nothing to be worried about...

another plus i'm liking is the color in their cheeks, it's a much darker green and matches my soil plants color.

now some of my problems.. i'm still getting the curls.. then next set of leaves is burned. same as before so it wasn't the genetics, it wasn't the nutes and i've now confirmed it's not the light because i've had the old 275 back in there and not even using either of those two 550's.. so to help narrow it down i've decided to start some soil plants next to them. it takes till right around the three week mark to show the signs, at least both sets of hydro plants did. so i'm going to keep growing exactly how i am and continue to try and figure this odd issue out.

some pics of what i have right now today..

the goofy goof..


just now seeing that algae on top^ ... in soil this is signs of severe overwater.. should i be concerned here? all my alarms are ringing right now..

the other plant and a close up of the leaf...




the young soil plants..



so in holding pattern till i figure this out. and if the soil plants would happen to not curl then i have to believe there is something wrong with my rdwc in which case would mean destruction and buy a new system.. can't afford it right now.

other side is the soil plants also curl.. hmmm.. with a completely different and proven light i would have to believe a poison in the wood somehow.. a tent could probably solve that theory if the soil plants curl.

just trying to narrow this down in any way i can think of..

 

[Observer]

Too much carbonic acid?

Growing a shit ton of anaerobic "bad" bacteria?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Too much carbonic acid?

I'm not sure man, i never got those sensor tips yet. the dude from ebay never sent them and just returned my money ten days later with no comment. so i went back to the chinese and ordered two and they just landed in NY so maybe i'll have em over the weekend or early next week.

when i have that i can accurately measure my DO...

Growing a shit ton of anaerobic "bad" bacteria?

i hope not, thats what i pay Orca for.. to beat out the bad stuff.

i'm tempted to ditch the coco for now, one it could be holding the problem.. two, i don't like that green stuff!.. three, maybe i'm not good enough to strive for the optimum and should go back to hydroten... actually i think i might just do that.

 

[Observer]

I'm not sure man, i never got those sensor tips yet. the dude from ebay never sent them and just returned my money ten days later with no comment. so i went back to the chinese and ordered two and they just landed in NY so maybe i'll have em over the weekend or early next week.

when i have that i can accurately measure my DO...



i hope not, thats what i pay Orca for.. to beat out the bad stuff.

i'm tempted to ditch the coco for now, one it could be holding the problem.. two, i don't like that green stuff!.. three, maybe i'm not good enough to strive for the optimum and should go back to hydroten... actually i think i might just do that.

And how old are your nutrients that you're using? Is it possible those liquid bottles are "contaminated"?

 

[Observer]

Maybe bleach/scrub the whole system and change to collars/a different medium

Idk Moe's got ya in good hands though

Just throwing out thoughts

 

[Bandit420]

FWIW man, there's something off about 'Nova since Hawthorne took over GH.
Something different about the formula in it being way hotter than before and I'm not sure about the fulvic in there. I'm finding it a bitch to work with where as before the takeover it was super ez and very plant friendly.

 

[Stoneyluv]

And how old are your nutrients that you're using? Is it possible those liquid bottles are "contaminated"?

i just bought the trio a few weeks ago. i'm not sure how long it was on amazons shelf.. i'll look on the bottles and see if there's a date..

Maybe bleach/scrub the whole system and change to collars/a different medium

Idk Moe's got ya in good hands though

Just throwing out thoughts

i've recently mechanically wiped out the whole thing but did not flush or soak at all. i think i'll follow your advice and just drain and clean, i'll use bleach, peroxide, and dish soap. i also just ordered some h2o2 test strips so once i run all that stuff in it for a few hours i'll drain and flush a few times and then fill it up and put 20ppms of h2o2 like Moe does. i'll let this run for a few days until i get 0ppms and try and start from there.

is there any other steps i can take to clean it?

oh and yes, i will go with completely new medium, new seedlings all over again.

FWIW man, there's something off about 'Nova since Hawthorne took over GH.
Something different about the formula in it being way hotter than before and I'm not sure about the fulvic in there. I'm finding it a bitch to work with where as before the takeover it was super ez and very plant friendly.

ya know i kinda felt my first bottle of veg was acting way different from this second bottle.. i wonder? i thought i was just crazy because of the other issues i was experiencing and thought maybe it was just the mites causing it. maybe it was the nova back then and i didn't realize it?

that stuff just imbeds itself into everything.. it has permanently stained my ph sample cups, i just use those to take the value and pour it out... i can't imagine all the plastic inside the system were it sat.