Great White Shark Attack

[Observer]

the plants still look realtively healthy with a few minor problems possible to arise.

i dont know if its pathogens, or some other root uptake issue or nutrient ratio imbalance, or canopy variables dictating the root uptake variables.

 

[Observer]

I think my strong suite is more intuition and theory.

Rigorous experiment and validation.

I do not have the real-life experience like some others older than me might.

But everyone adjust/learns/evolves at different rates.


I'm just rambling.

 

[Observer]

Fuckin grow that shit homie lol

Love this shit almost more than I love UFO tech.

 

[Beachwalker]

It

for some reason i really believe it has to do with this. i just don't have enough times under my belt to try enough things to narrow it down yet. i know all the things i have eliminated and just keep trying new things each time.

so much seems to point at too much bubble (co2 poison) but i have checked and i'm not out of bounds or anywhere near that.



i wouldn't sweat it too much, i'm not... i really believe they're about to grow out of it any day now.. and if not, hey i still have all the clones yet!!! hahaha

View attachment 120882View attachment 120883

been giving them the exact same solution from my top off barrel.. just dip in a beaker and pour it into a tray with a heat mat under it. i don't ph anything with these clones... nothing.. pour and ignore!!!

kinda like my neighbors plant... yep, i still got it!!! ahahahaha he says this weekend he's gonna take it. i actually believe him this time though. see his wife is going out to CA to visit her kids and he's staying at home with the dogs so i think he's gonna put up a tent and put the plant in and do it all while his wife is away so she can't say no.. what;s she gonna do make him throw out a four foot plant,, no way!!! i think it's slick!! i'll help him!! hahahaha

things a monster though... not bad for a 200 watt CLW at only 50%!!!!!!!!!! no joke and i'm not kidding!!!! 100 watts of osram diodes kicking serious ass!!

View attachment 120881

and i have this to look forward to... a great white shark i have in flower right now.. i want a full table scrog full!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

View attachment 120884



man it goes deeper than that... i know i'm silly in thinking this but i'm gonna be honest i feel a little like the kiss of death. Aqua helped me a bunch one on one and left right after that. like literally days after.. then Moe helped me a ton one on one for a while and then left promptly..

please don't help me too much man... i really like having you here and don't want you to leave too!!!!!



not sure exactly what you mean but my mixing regiment has been:

fill barrel with water (about 40-50ppms, i call it 50) or rain water at 0ppms. since it's winter i'd like to use my tap water at 50ppm

so, 1. fill barrel with water
2. add buffer and then reduce ph to 7.0 to eliminate any precipitation.
3. add cal/mag

7. mr Fulvic
8. great white or Orca

but this very last time i skipped step 2. i figured if i was adding up all the time why even start with a bunch to begin with if it's not buffering anything anyway. i've been using Balance as buffer though before that.

i'd like to add rapid start but i'd just be wasting it right now with all the dumping and diluting i'm doing so i'm not going to use it until i know i have a handle on this.

4. add floramicro

5. add florabloom

6. add floragrow

It's:
1) Micro
2) Grow
3) Bloom last.

I don't grow Hydro anymore but I do use GH three part, have for years in the past and started again recently.

Pipe does too, he might have more info than me, but that's how I mix it to avoid lockout

I was just reading through trying to see if I could help and that's the only thing that I noticed that I would comment on. Sorry I can't help more but I don't have the skill set for hydro anymore.

The pH drift you mentioned is what I also experienced in Hydro, it's normal.

 

[Stoneyluv]

the plants still look realtively healthy with a few minor problems possible to arise.

i dont know if its pathogens, or some other root uptake issue or nutrient ratio imbalance, or canopy variables dictating the root uptake variables.

could i test this theory by foliar feeding right now?

I think my strong suite is more intuition and theory.

Rigorous experiment and validation.

I do not have the real-life experience like some others older than me might.

But everyone adjust/learns/evolves at different rates.


I'm just rambling.

i need more theory knowledge for sure!!

Fuckin grow that shit homie lol

Love this shit almost more than I love UFO tech.

i can't wait to see how that plants looks when he flowers it!!!!

It's micro, grow, then bloom last, isn't it?

not sure it matters as long as the micros are first.. i find GH lists it both ways.. i went by this:

Pipe does too, he might have more info than me, but that's how I mix it to avoid lockout

wasn't aware he used trio.. i'll ask him

The pH drift you mentioned is what I also experienced in Hydro, so it's not unusual.

a ph drift i could handle and would welcome it. but this dive down is killing me, well killing the plants if i wouldn't keep change outs and diluting every few days.

 

[Beachwalker]

not sure it matters as long as the micros are first.. i find GH lists it both ways.. i went by this:

I believe the order does matter.

How To Mix A Three Part Nutrient Solution- General Hydroponics Flora Series - NoSoilSolutions

Some hydroponic nutrient solutions require mixing different parts. Here is how to mix the 3 part General Hydroponics Flora Series.

nosoilsolutions.com

 

[Stoneyluv]

I believe the order does matter.

How To Mix A Three Part Nutrient Solution- General Hydroponics Flora Series - NoSoilSolutions

Some hydroponic nutrient solutions require mixing different parts. Here is how to mix the 3 part General Hydroponics Flora Series.

nosoilsolutions.com

i took that right from GH's website so just assume it's correct.... https://generalhydroponics.com/faqs/?_search_archive=flora

the bottle just says not to mix them in concentrate form..



so i got no idea,,, like i said GH lists it both ways.

 

[Beachwalker]

i took that right from GH's website so just assume it's correct.... https://generalhydroponics.com/faqs/?_search_archive=flora

the bottle just says not to mix them in concentrate form..

View attachment 120896

so i got no idea,,, like i said GH lists it both ways.

That's the same order myself, AI, and the internet search said, micro, grow and then bloom.

Look it up, every grow site I scanned says that order.

I've used it for about 4 years altogether but not during my decade of hydro, but if you want to do it the other way that's up to you, but you may be causing lockout


That's also the same order in which I mix my dry three-part Masterblend

Like I said I've been away from hydro for almost 30 years so I can't really help more than I've already tried, good luck with it!

 

[Observer]

could i test this theory by foliar feeding right now?

Possibly wouldn't hurt to try.



i need more theory knowledge for sure!!



i can't wait to see how that plants looks when he flowers it!!!!


not sure it matters as long as the micros are first.. i find GH lists it both ways.. i went by this:

View attachment 120892



wasn't aware he used trio.. i'll ask him



a ph drift i could handle and would welcome it. but this dive down is killing me, well killing the plants if i wouldn't keep change outs and diluting every few days.

Possibly, would not hurt to try a 0ppm starting water with some small dose of NPK or mag sulfate.

 

[Observer]

I believe the order does matter.

How To Mix A Three Part Nutrient Solution- General Hydroponics Flora Series - NoSoilSolutions

Some hydroponic nutrient solutions require mixing different parts. Here is how to mix the 3 part General Hydroponics Flora Series.

nosoilsolutions.com

I think that's more on the concepts of mixing elements together that wont precipitate.

Thats the why on nutrient mixing order atleast.


Like if you took a gallon of water and dumped in those elements at the same time, there'll be some trouble mixing and dissolving them, compared to mixing and dissolving one element or ratio at a time.



I could be wrong of course or missing context.

 

[Beachwalker]

I think that's more on the concepts of mixing elements together that wont precipitate.

Thats the why on nutrient mixing order atleast.


Like if you took a gallon of water and dumped in those elements at the same time, there'll be some trouble mixing and dissolving them, compared to mixing and dissolving one element or ratio at a time.



I could be wrong of course or missing context.

Agree, that's why virtually every related internet search gives the order that I've repeated above, the order I've been mixing in for years.

Wouldn't apply here but what I do is pour some water from a gallon into two separate containers, then add the micro to the remaining liquid in the gallon, then the grow to one of the two separate containers and the bloom to the other separate container, then I mix them together back into the gallon jug in the order I've mentioned above.

I mix dry nutrients in a similar manner, all to avoid lockout.

Not saying lockout is the problem he's having, but I am saying that there is a correct order to mix GH Flora Trio.

Here's another long time grower and user of GH Flora trio who mixes it the same order.

White Rhino in The Great White North

-Separating my grow diary from my other diary which has turned into pictures of deer and wood fires- Some of my readings were so off the chart and different from each other that I feel I need to condense this grow to keep a better eye on it First heavy flush 11/12 One plant was 778 PPM and...

budbuilders.org

 

[GrumpAzz]

so, 1. fill barrel with water
2. add buffer and then reduce ph to 7.0 to eliminate any precipitation.
3. add cal/mag
4. add floramicro
5. add florabloom
6. add floragrow
7. mr Fulvic
8. great white or Orca

You've got the order right. I ran GH for 2 runs and drilled it into my head. Micro before the other nutes has something to do with Manganese, I believe. CalMag first according to a mixing video on the GH website. When I first started using Athena nutes, I emailed them to make sure that my CalMag goes in last.

What I'm seeing that would potentially be affecting your stability is that you're only bringing it down to 7 with your buffer, in a sense using nutes to buffer it down to 5.8. The way it was explained to me is that it's better to add UP at the end than to start high letting the nutes bring it down.

 

[Stoneyluv]

That's the same order myself, AI, and the internet search said, micro, grow and then bloom.

Look it up, every grow site I scanned says that order.

I've used it for about 4 years altogether but not during my decade of hydro, but if you want to do it the other way that's up to you, but you may be causing lockout


That's also the same order in which I mix my dry three-part Masterblend

Like I said I've been away from hydro for almost 30 years so I can't really help more than I've already tried, good luck with it!

hell i'll give it a try, it can't hurt... now that i think about it when i switched to flower nutes last time i changed the order up then too.. it felt weird to me to put in bloom then gro then bloom booster so i went gro- bloom- booster for the rest of the mixes.

like i said i'll try it. not sure it will happen this round though because these plant are now snapping out of it and the problem fixes itself. i still have a couple barrels of mixed nutes laying around now because of all the diluting i did. i'm not gonna throw them away, i'll use them.

but my next mix i'll go green then pink for good practice.

Possibly, would not hurt to try a 0ppm starting water with some small dose of NPK or mag sulfate.

i gave them a spritz of this foop,,, it's my oops fixer and normally takes care of any defic or uptake issues in my soil plants so i figured i'd give it try here.. although i'm pretty dang sure my problem was a toxic not a lockout, deviancies take days or week, burns happen in hours like this one did!! i didn't take a photo but man the leaf veins were the brightest red i ever saw!!! they almost were glow in the dark they we so were so bright red. i immediately went over to the doser bottle and shook it and realized the entire bottle of balance was added in, i knew instantly what caused the red.



i really think the plants are snapping out it and kicking in starting now,, last night was even better than the previous 48 hrs.. last night the doser never ran and the ph stayed perfect.

plants even look a little perkier today...

You've got the order right. I ran GH for 2 runs and drilled it into my head. Micro before the other nutes has something to do with Manganese, I believe. CalMag first according to a mixing video on the GH website. When I first started using Athena nutes, I emailed them to make sure that my CalMag goes in last.

What I'm seeing that would potentially be affecting your stability is that you're only bringing it down to 7 with your buffer, in a sense using nutes to buffer it down to 5.8. The way it was explained to me is that it's better to add UP at the end than to start high letting the nutes bring it down.

this is the one thing that Aqua and Moe steered me differently in... Aqua said to just get it under 7. he said really under 8 was fine too but 7 gives you some breathing room.

where Moe always told me to ph down the buffer to a perfect 5.8 then add nutes.

the nutes don't really bring the ph down too much when added, i still need to add like 10-15ml of down when i'm all finished mixing.

your point is valid though and i understand what you mean... Aqua taught the buffer to me as up(U) and down(D) together balance it, but when you add a bunch of up UUUUUUUU and then a bunch of down DDDDDDDD this is what makes the buffer and UUUUU/DDDDD is more stable than just U/D... so yeah i think i should be adding the DDDDDDD from the start and not waiting till after i add everything else. the only thing i notice that really changed the ph is the Mr Fulvic(humic).

but man on the 9th when i saw the leaves burned i dumped the whole rez and started over with no buffer at all. so right now this solution has no balance in it at all... all this time i only added the buffer because i thought i absolutely needed it, turns out it's acting the exact same without it.

maybe this tap water has enough buffers already in it where my rain water did not.. i need to stop bouncing back and forth between the two!! rain water is frozen right now and i'm out so everything has been on tap for a couple weeks now.

i have like 40 gallons of veg nutes now because of all the diluting, i might not need any more this round.. just calmag and trio in all the extra so i doubt it will go bad.

 

[Observer]

hell i'll give it a try, it can't hurt... now that i think about it when i switched to flower nutes last time i changed the order up then too.. it felt weird to me to put in bloom then gro then bloom booster so i went gro- bloom- booster for the rest of the mixes.

like i said i'll try it. not sure it will happen this round though because these plant are now snapping out of it and the problem fixes itself. i still have a couple barrels of mixed nutes laying around now because of all the diluting i did. i'm not gonna throw them away, i'll use them.

but my next mix i'll go green then pink for good practice.



i gave them a spritz of this foop,,, it's my oops fixer and normally takes care of any defic or uptake issues in my soil plants so i figured i'd give it try here.. although i'm pretty dang sure my problem was a toxic not a lockout, deviancies take days or week, burns happen in hours like this one did!! i didn't take a photo but man the leaf veins were the brightest red i ever saw!!! they almost were glow in the dark they we so were so bright red. i immediately went over to the doser bottle and shook it and realized the entire bottle of balance was added in, i knew instantly what caused the red.

View attachment 120935

i really think the plants are snapping out it and kicking in starting now,, last night was even better than the previous 48 hrs.. last night the doser never ran and the ph stayed perfect.

plants even look a little perkier today...

View attachment 120936



this is the one thing that Aqua and Moe steered me differently in... Aqua said to just get it under 7. he said really under 8 was fine too but 7 gives you some breathing room.

where Moe always told me to ph down the buffer to a perfect 5.8 then add nutes.

the nutes don't really bring the ph down too much when added, i still need to add like 10-15ml of down when i'm all finished mixing.

your point is valid though and i understand what you mean... Aqua taught the buffer to me as up(U) and down(D) together balance it, but when you add a bunch of up UUUUUUUU and then a bunch of down DDDDDDDD this is what makes the buffer and UUUUU/DDDDD is more stable than just U/D... so yeah i think i should be adding the DDDDDDD from the start and not waiting till after i add everything else. the only thing i notice that really changed the ph is the Mr Fulvic(humic).

but man on the 9th when i saw the leaves burned i dumped the whole rez and started over with no buffer at all. so right now this solution has no balance in it at all... all this time i only added the buffer because i thought i absolutely needed it, turns out it's acting the exact same without it.

maybe this tap water has enough buffers already in it where my rain water did not.. i need to stop bouncing back and forth between the two!! rain water is frozen right now and i'm out so everything has been on tap for a couple weeks now.

i have like 40 gallons of veg nutes now because of all the diluting, i might not need any more this round.. just calmag and trio in all the extra so i doubt it will go bad.

Could have been that potassium toxicity you mentioned earlier, causing a imbalance.

But now she's starting bounce out if it

 

[Stoneyluv]

Could have been that potassium toxicity you mentioned earlier, causing a imbalance.

But now she's starting bounce out if it

"and" (told ya i was full of em!) .. i didn't mention that this was the first time i ever used the balance as ph up. if you remember i was making my own (found my problem there BTW!!!) and then used GH store bought. well i had run out and Athena says to use balance as ph up. so i figured instead of buying more i would just use some of the huge gallon of balance i already own.

long story short, i don''t think the balance made a very good ph up for me. maybe because i didn't have the rest of the Athena lineup in or what but it didn't work that great for me at all!!!!

so i've since gotten more Gh up and also figured out my homemade stuff and might be testing it out in the near future.

maybe all of that combined and i assume that even though the doser keeps in within 5.7-5.8 non stop that doesn't mean the plant itself isn't experiencing swings then, correct? i mean just because i'm keeping a 25 gallon rez kinda steady doesn't mean the plant itself is steady at all, right?

they're kinda still fightin and wiggling and i'm just wrapping my arms up tight not letting them hurt themselves more... but they ain't happy by any means and like children throwing a fit!!!! hahaha i need to calm them down and give em some cake!!! haha

edit>> oooh better yet, they're like great white sharks wiggling around and i'm trying to wrestle them!!!!! hahaha

 

[Observer]

Chatgpt: Yes—your conclusion is correct.

A stable 5.7–5.8 reservoir pH does not mean the plant is stable.

Key points, briefly:

The plant experiences the rhizosphere, not the reservoir.

Roots actively change local pH during nutrient uptake.

Rhizosphere pH can swing ±0.5–1.0 even when the rez is locked.

Large reservoirs slow drift but do not prevent micro-instability at the root.

Controllers regulate averages, not what the root surface actually feels.


So: your rez can look perfect while the plant still experiences chemical swings. That is normal and expected.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I still use GH Up and Down. I haven't used my Balance as Up yet.

 

[doublej]

Its weird for sure man, I'm mixing the golden tree first..... I can't imagine that my nutrients are much different than yours.
I had to call and ask him...


You had said before that the two additives are similar... probably....just an FYI for reference if you need it.

Pulling for ya buddy

 

[Zen_seeker]

like children throwing a fit!!!! hahaha i need to calm them down and give em some cake!!! haha

You do not calm children with cake, unless sending them home with the parents in the next 15 minutes.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Chatgpt: Yes—your conclusion is correct.

A stable 5.7–5.8 reservoir pH does not mean the plant is stable.

Key points, briefly:

The plant experiences the rhizosphere, not the reservoir.

Roots actively change local pH during nutrient uptake.

Rhizosphere pH can swing ±0.5–1.0 even when the rez is locked.

Large reservoirs slow drift but do not prevent micro-instability at the root.

Controllers regulate averages, not what the root surface actually feels.


So: your rez can look perfect while the plant still experiences chemical swings. That is normal and expected.

ahhh see if AI says its true it must be!!!! hahaha

the rhizophere, thats the word i couldn't remember.. this is exactly what i believe my plants are experiencing. and this is why we should read our plants and not just our parameters.. to an outsider just looking at my rez numbers would never see this.

but i truly believe it's improving or just growing out of it and controlling the rhizophere themselves. before my doser was running more than once an hour to maintain, it's only run once in the past 37 hours, and that was 37 hours ago. no swings since then. ph or EC.

and to be clear the EC is the only swing i really watch. the doser keeps the water ph so i just loosely keep an eye on the bottle level on how much the pump is sipping out every couple days. the EC i check religiously every night around the same time and document.

I still use GH Up and Down. I haven't used my Balance as Up yet.

good to know, i wasn't sure if you even really used a ph up at all.

Its weird for sure man, I'm mixing the golden tree first..... I can't imagine that my nutrients are much different than yours.
I had to call and ask him...


You had said before that the two additives are similar... probably....just an FYI for reference if you need it.

Pulling for ya buddyView attachment 120954

yes sir, i'm pretty sure this falls along the exact same guidelines just called different names from different companies.

You do not calm children with cake, unless sending them home with the parents in the next 15 minutes.

ahhhh wise words from a pop pop!!!!! maybe i should drop a benadryl in my rez? hahaha

.
.

so one thing i noticed different about scrogin from clones versus seeds.. on seeded plants the nodes are side by side so topping at node four and then again at node two is easy and textbook... clones on the other hand don't grow the same way, on one clone alternating a coupe nodes earlier and it's changing the shape and size of the plant.. after the first topping all nodes have been alternating...



i tried to FIM the other one but i think i missed.. haha i missed the miss!!! one thing is for sure is they're gonna be bushy babes!!!!!!!!!

 

[Observer]

ahhh see if AI says its true it must be!!!! hahaha

the rhizophere, thats the word i couldn't remember.. this is exactly what i believe my plants are experiencing. and this is why we should read our plants and not just our parameters.. to an outsider just looking at my rez numbers would never see this.

but i truly believe it's improving or just growing out of it and controlling the rhizophere themselves. before my doser was running more than once an hour to maintain, it's only run once in the past 37 hours, and that was 37 hours ago. no swings since then. ph or EC.

and to be clear the EC is the only swing i really watch. the doser keeps the water ph so i just loosely keep an eye on the bottle level on how much the pump is sipping out every couple days. the EC i check religiously every night around the same time and document.



good to know, i wasn't sure if you even really used a ph up at all.



yes sir, i'm pretty sure this falls along the exact same guidelines just called different names from different companies.



ahhhh wise words from a pop pop!!!!! maybe i should drop a benadryl in my rez? hahaha

.
.

yea id keep ph stable, or swing/drift between 5.5-6.0, i assume E.C around 300-500, higher nitrogen to > PK /micronute ratios for veg. increase calcium and magnesium sulfate if signs show.

so one thing i noticed different about scrogin from clones versus seeds.. on seeded plants the nodes are side by side so topping at node four and then again at node two is easy and textbook... clones on the other hand don't grow the same way, on one clone alternating a coupe nodes earlier and it's changing the shape and size of the plant.. after the first topping all nodes have been alternating...

apical dominance pattern is different in clones compared to seeds.

is this what ur observing?

View attachment 120961

i tried to FIM the other one but i think i missed.. haha i missed the miss!!! one thing is for sure is they're gonna be bushy babes!!!!!!!!!

 

[Observer]

i think you need to start with grow/micro then add bloom as needed, then add calmag if the plants show signs they need it.

perspective & context, your starting with your buffer which is fine, but then going to calmag? plants need basic NPK so start with that, then add supplements, i could be wrong but thats HOW IM SEEING it.

in short, VEG is = NPK + "supplements"
but your "starting" or giving your plants calmag dosage, and then "calculating/adding NPK" to balance and compensate.

you need to start with NPK then add supplements to compensate.

i could be wrong but this is one way im seeing it. and besides any other issues like a few months ago when plants had a giga-hard times growing in ur DWC spot without any obvious reasons we all stuggled figuring out the exact cause? idk. i cant speak to that.

idk im just trying to help and offer thought-logical process. and perspective/context.

bloom/flower = MPK + "supplements"

I see where I made a mistake with context, while I was drunk lol.

In this specific scenario, above I say you need to start with NPK then add supplements to compensate, not necessarily the mix order of the bottles.

that then lead into proper mixing order of that specific line of manufactured elemental ion ratios discussion, which was not my context or main point.
I've not used GH, I'm not familiar with them or their ratios on their 3 bottles.

My context is coming from the basic plants needs and what I see from that green plant in a DWC bucket, and your potassium toxicity comment.
Just wanted to clarify my thought process

and how i personally like to run ratios in veg & / compared to Flower ionic ratios.
npk/mpk veg/flower

higher N >P>K ratio veg/ lower N>higher>P>K ratio in Flower.

utilize silica and other supplements/natural PGRs like triacontanol & kelp/chitosan ie,
when wanted or needed.

 

[Observer]

ahhh see if AI says its true it must be!!!! hahaha

ive been getting in these patterns of using it for a little, then not using it for a little cause id get annoyed with the "hallucinations" & inaccurate information

i routinely ask it to verify and validate, and then ill cross-reference other data or my own experience.

the rhizophere, thats the word i couldn't remember.. this is exactly what i believe my plants are experiencing. and this is why we should read our plants and not just our parameters.. to an outsider just looking at my rez numbers would never see this.

but i truly believe it's improving or just growing out of it and controlling the rhizophere themselves. before my doser was running more than once an hour to maintain, it's only run once in the past 37 hours, and that was 37 hours ago. no swings since then. ph or EC.

and to be clear the EC is the only swing i really watch. the doser keeps the water ph so i just loosely keep an eye on the bottle level on how much the pump is sipping out every couple days. the EC i check religiously every night around the same time and document.



good to know, i wasn't sure if you even really used a ph up at all.



yes sir, i'm pretty sure this falls along the exact same guidelines just called different names from different companies.



ahhhh wise words from a pop pop!!!!! maybe i should drop a benadryl in my rez? hahaha

.
.

so one thing i noticed different about scrogin from clones versus seeds.. on seeded plants the nodes are side by side so topping at node four and then again at node two is easy and textbook... clones on the other hand don't grow the same way, on one clone alternating a coupe nodes earlier and it's changing the shape and size of the plant.. after the first topping all nodes have been alternating...

View attachment 120961

i tried to FIM the other one but i think i missed.. haha i missed the miss!!! one thing is for sure is they're gonna be bushy babes!!!!!!!!!

 

[Observer]

Possibly, would not hurt to try a 0ppm starting water with some small dose of NPK or mag sulfate.

did u try a low ppm foliar feed 20-80ppm of npk and/or magsulfate? to be safe? and see if it helped them?

the leafs will uptake that within seconds, if its not too/strong much i suspect/ out of balance.

 

[Stoneyluv]

yea id keep ph stable, or swing/drift between 5.5-6.0, i assume E.C around 300-500, higher nitrogen to > PK /micronute ratios for veg. increase calcium and magnesium sulfate if signs show.

apical dominance pattern is different in clones compared to seeds.

is this what ur observing?

yeah pretty much. just been a minute since i grew out clones. don't think topping at four and two rule is as important or viable with clones was more my point.

I see where I made a mistake with context, while I was drunk lol.

In this specific scenario, above I say you need to start with NPK then add supplements to compensate, not necessarily the mix order of the bottles.

that then lead into proper mixing order of that specific line of manufactured elemental ion ratios discussion, which was not my context or main point.
I've not used GH, I'm not familiar with them or their ratios on their 3 bottles.

My context is coming from the basic plants needs and what I see from that green plant in a DWC bucket, and your potassium toxicity comment.
Just wanted to clarify my thought process

and how i personally like to run ratios in veg & / compared to Flower ionic ratios.
npk/mpk veg/flower

higher N >P>K ratio veg/ lower N>higher>P>K ratio in Flower.

utilize silica and other supplements/natural PGRs like triacontanol & kelp/chitosan ie,
when wanted or needed.

i didn;t know you were drunk but i got your point... hahaha

ive been getting in these patterns of using it for a little, then not using it for a little cause id get annoyed with the "hallucinations" & inaccurate information

i routinely ask it to verify and validate, and then ill cross-reference other data or my own experience.

it's not all that informative... hahahahahaha i had to....

did u try a low ppm foliar feed 20-80ppm of npk and/or magsulfate? to be safe? and see if it helped them?

the leafs will uptake that within seconds, if its not too/strong much i suspect/ out of balance.

shit i don't know i used foop.. like three pumps each..

dipshit says this...



i forgot to spray them tonight, thanks for reminding me... see now a smarter me should only spray one plant and see if it makes a difference!! ..

but man two days in a row and the ph has gone up... sumbitch!!!



EC was also the same.... about two quarts of top off were used for both plants....



i'm gonna let them ride at the 350 for now... BTW, the 350 is the following to best of my knowledge:

50ppm mystery water.. ( not a total mystery, mostly iron and calcium heavy.)
60ppm of cal/mag
230ppm of trio at this ratio..
, Micro is 5-0-1, Grow is 3-1-2, Bloom is 1-5-4 ... so what is that?? 20-8-12?
and 10ppm of Mr. Humic.

.

i need to go down there and spray em with foop right now before i forget!!!