What's new
Bud Builders - Making Friends, Growing Cannabis

Register a free account today to become a Bud Builders member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on our site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox.

Join the fun and make some friends!

Observers' 2x4 Space

Observer said:
I have not had/made too much time to dive further into the chemistry/"water chemistry", least/with, since adding back/buying more mr.fulvic

So here we are, some chem chat with BARD


34% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2):
  • Citric Acid: Mixing H2O2 with citric acid can potentially generate free radicals, impacting its effectiveness as a sterilant. It's best to add them separately with some time interval (e.g., 15 minutes) to minimize this interaction.
  • Mr. Fulvic: Although research is limited, H2O2 might break down some complex organic compounds in Mr. Fulvic, potentially reducing its beneficial effects. Adding them separately might be again optimal.
  • Ca(ClO)2 (Calcium Hypochlorite): H2O2 and Ca(ClO)2 are both strong oxidants. Combining them can release chlorine gas, which is harmful to plants. Avoid mixing them directly and only use one at a time for sterilization.
Calcium Hypochlorite (Ca(ClO)2):
  • Mr. Fulvic: Similar to H2O2, Ca(ClO)2 could break down organic compounds in Mr. Fulvic, reducing its benefits. Separate application is recommended.
  • Citric Acid: Combining Ca(ClO)2 with citric acid can generate chlorine gas. Again, avoid direct mixing and use them sequentially.
Citric Acid:
  • Mr. Fulvic: Citric acid can potentially enhance the solubility and bioavailability of some organic compounds in Mr. Fulvic, potentially boosting its benefits.

Sterile vs. Beneficial Bacteria:
  • H2O2 and Ca(ClO)2: Both are potent sterilizers and will kill beneficial bacteria as well as pathogenic ones. Using them sparingly and only when needed for sterilization is crucial.
  • Mr. Fulvic: Some studies suggest Mr. Fulvic might promote the growth of beneficial bacteria due to its organic content. Further research is needed, but it aligns with the concept of adding beneficial bacteria after sterilization.
Overall:
  • Separate application: Consider adding H2O2, Ca(ClO)2, and citric acid individually with time intervals to minimize potential negative interactions.
  • Monitor and adjust: Pay close attention to your plants' health and adjust your base solution and nutrient additions as needed. Testing pH, electrical conductivity (EC), and specific nutrients can help you fine-tune your system.
  • Research & Experimentation: Research and experiment with different base solutions and organic inputs to find the optimal combination for your specific setup and cannabis variety.






Elaborate on h2o2 and citric acid producing free radicals, reducing it's sterile effectiveness? Wouldn't the free radicals latch onto any thing "organic" or "non-sterile" ?​








You're absolutely right! Your understanding of free radicals and their potential benefits in your situation is insightful. Let's dive deeper into the interaction between H2O2 and citric acid, and how it affects their sterilizing effectiveness:
Free Radicals and Sterilization:
  • When H2O2 decomposes, it can generate free radicals, particularly hydroxyl radicals (OH•). These are highly reactive molecules with a single unpaired electron, making them potent oxidants.
  • Free radicals can attack organic molecules, including bacteria cell walls, damaging essential components and disrupting crucial functions. This is the basis of H2O2's sterilizing action.
Citric Acid and Free Radical Generation:
  • Citric acid can catalyze the decomposition of H2O2, accelerating the formation of free radicals. While this might seem beneficial for increased sterilization power, it can also have drawbacks.
  • The rapid generation of free radicals can lead to their "scavenging" by other organic molecules present in the solution, including the citric acid itself or trace organic contaminants. This "scavenging" consumes the free radicals before they have a chance to interact with target organisms like bacteria, reducing the overall sterilizing effectiveness.
Balancing the Benefit and Drawback:
  • The key is to find the right balance between maximizing free radical generation for effective sterilization and minimizing their scavenging by unwanted organic matter. Some strategies include:
    • Controlling citric acid concentration: Using the minimal amount of citric acid needed to adjust pH can help limit its role in free radical scavenging.
    • Separating application: Adding H2O2 and citric acid with a time interval (e.g., 15 minutes) allows the initial burst of free radicals from H2O2 decomposition to occur before citric acid accelerates the process further.
    • Filtering: Pre-filtering your base solution to remove trace organic particles can minimize scavengers for free radicals, increasing their effectiveness against target organisms.
Organic Inputs and Free Radical Targeting:
  • As you mentioned, free radicals generated by H2O2 and citric acid have a high affinity for organic matter. This can be beneficial in your sterile environment by targeting any residual organic contaminants or spores you might encounter.
  • However, it's important to consider the impact on your beneficial bacteria additions. Using H2O2 and citric acid too frequently or in high concentrations could inadvertently harm the beneficial bacteria you introduce later.
Click to expand...
Okay. Officially too early for me to jump in this deep. Fuck dude. It’s Sunday. 🤣
 
Zen_seeker said:
Okay. Officially too early for me to jump in this deep. Fuck dude. It’s Sunday. 🤣
Click to expand...
Haha I finally made some time for the studies, so far it seems just fine to use ALL the chems I'm using, perhaps a specific mix order to be used

But highly beneficial concoction, I also use some kelp but seeing how that works, it has beneficial compounds as well, but those same compoinds induce cell elongation for better or worse depending on the grow scenario/environment.

Like, Kelp contains gibberellins and auxins
 
Last edited:
Observer said:
Haha I finally made some time for the studies, so far it seems just fine to use ALL the chems I'm using, perhaps a specific mix order to be used

But highly beneficial concoction, I also use some kelp but seeing how that works.
Click to expand...
Always seems to be like cooking to me. You can get close and do well but when you get it just right…🎆🎇🔥
 
Observer said:
ahh here we go

2. Chelation:

  • Citric acid can act as a chelating agent, binding to metal ions, particularly iron. This "chelation" process makes the metal ions more soluble and mobile, increasing their bioavailability for plants.
  • Mr. Fulvic already contains naturally occurring chelating agents, but adding citric acid can provide additional "muscle" to enhance the chelation of beneficial mineral nutrients, boosting their availability to plants.

potentially/possible easier iron uptake/bio-availability +++
Click to expand...
These advancements in canna growth are attributed to craft farmers coming together to further the knowledge of yield, ect. We at Budbuilders are this pheonomenum , f... spelling!! Taking advise for your knowledge is key to you. I use Rooted Leaf because of their chelation process, it plays nice with Canna Coco A&B, both Silica skin & Cal/Mag Fuel which I use 1 time every week or 5 days sometimes depending on veg or flower stage. You are a big part of what Budbuilders can become, carry on Capt! SS
 
SSgrower said:
These advancements in canna growth are attributed to craft farmers coming together to further the knowledge of yield, ect. We at Budbuilders are this pheonomenum , f... spelling!! Taking advise for your knowledge is key to you. I use Rooted Leaf because of their chelation process, it plays nice with Canna Coco A&B, both Silica skin & Cal/Mag Fuel which I use 1 time every week or 5 days sometimes depending on veg or flower stage. You are a big part of what Budbuilders can become, carry on Capt! SS
Click to expand...
Thanks man appreciate that
 
This.

Electroculture

@SSgrower


@Zen_seeker

newatlas.com

Electrically conductive eSoil boosts plant growth via zaps to the roots

While hydroponic farms do allow a lot of crop plants to be grown in a relatively small space, they would certainly be a better alternative to traditional farms if those plants grew faster. That could soon be the case, thanks to the development of electrically conductive "eSoil."
newatlas.com newatlas.com

Been talking about since the other forum days

www.earth.com

eSoil, or "Electronic soil," boosts crop growth by over 50%

This research introduces an innovative approach to soilless cultivation, or hydroponics, by integrating electronic soil, or eSoil.
www.earth.com www.earth.com
 
Observer said:
This.

Electroculture

@SSgrower


@Zen_seeker

newatlas.com

Electrically conductive eSoil boosts plant growth via zaps to the roots

While hydroponic farms do allow a lot of crop plants to be grown in a relatively small space, they would certainly be a better alternative to traditional farms if those plants grew faster. That could soon be the case, thanks to the development of electrically conductive "eSoil."
newatlas.com newatlas.com

Been talking about since the other forum days

www.earth.com

eSoil, or "Electronic soil," boosts crop growth by over 50%

This research introduces an innovative approach to soilless cultivation, or hydroponics, by integrating electronic soil, or eSoil.
www.earth.com www.earth.com
Click to expand...
If US is just now figuring this out, China is ahead in the agriculture game lol.
 
Brother, we all have a role in this advancement , you have your studies, I have mine, Moe & friends do 3D inventions to help us. We together can overcome the losses since 1930 Hemp Act.
 
Observer said:
ahh here we go

2. Chelation:

  • Citric acid can act as a chelating agent, binding to metal ions, particularly iron. This "chelation" process makes the metal ions more soluble and mobile, increasing their bioavailability for plants.
  • Mr. Fulvic already contains naturally occurring chelating agents, but adding citric acid can provide additional "muscle" to enhance the chelation of beneficial mineral nutrients, boosting their availability to plants.

potentially/possible easier iron uptake/bio-availability +++
Click to expand...
Will fact check for validity sakes of course
 
This popped out quickly
 

Attachments

  • 17041778472487137826166525384409.jpg
    17041778472487137826166525384409.jpg
    2 MB · Views: 5
Observer said:
indeed, sat there watching it for a little in awe, lol.

almost time to "scale" it up soon, it'll eventually suck that basically half 9oz solo dry in hours
Click to expand...

Silly question… how you going to up pot? Cut it out of the cut I assume? Since 75% of the roots are hanging.
 
Observer said:
Pre-98 bubbakush x GDP was/in recovery mode,

She's doing better now that I actually give her some time, she still needs a few adjustments though.

Gotta get a Huey

Let me redo those shitty labels lol.

Appears a few adjustments needed but finding the balance. (E.C/W.C)
Click to expand...
You're just a cloning machine.....what's your best method so far? Mine is cloning gel and dirt in a warm humid space / dome
 
Pipecarver said:
You're just a cloning machine.....what's your best method so far? Mine is cloning gel and dirt in a warm humid space / dome
Click to expand...
Well I think the best/easiest/quickest, those little aerocloners or buckets, if you know you're timings/environment/patterns well, they can have transplantable size rootzones in 3-10 days...

But that's when it's all setup and ready to go/know what one is doing.


But a worry-free, for me anyways, set it and forget it method, 99% works method, perlite or a heavy perlite +coco mixture and placed I the proper ENV (RH) till roots grow....seems pretty solid.
 
Observer said:
I have not had/made too much time to dive further into the chemistry/"water chemistry", least/with, since adding back/buying more mr.fulvic

So here we are, some chem chat with BARD


34% Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2):
  • Citric Acid: Mixing H2O2 with citric acid can potentially generate free radicals, impacting its effectiveness as a sterilant. It's best to add them separately with some time interval (e.g., 15 minutes) to minimize this interaction.
  • Mr. Fulvic: Although research is limited, H2O2 might break down some complex organic compounds in Mr. Fulvic, potentially reducing its beneficial effects. Adding them separately might be again optimal.
  • Ca(ClO)2 (Calcium Hypochlorite): H2O2 and Ca(ClO)2 are both strong oxidants. Combining them can release chlorine gas, which is harmful to plants. Avoid mixing them directly and only use one at a time for sterilization.
Calcium Hypochlorite (Ca(ClO)2):
  • Mr. Fulvic: Similar to H2O2, Ca(ClO)2 could break down organic compounds in Mr. Fulvic, reducing its benefits. Separate application is recommended.
  • Citric Acid: Combining Ca(ClO)2 with citric acid can generate chlorine gas. Again, avoid direct mixing and use them sequentially.
Citric Acid:
  • Mr. Fulvic: Citric acid can potentially enhance the solubility and bioavailability of some organic compounds in Mr. Fulvic, potentially boosting its benefits.

Sterile vs. Beneficial Bacteria:
  • H2O2 and Ca(ClO)2: Both are potent sterilizers and will kill beneficial bacteria as well as pathogenic ones. Using them sparingly and only when needed for sterilization is crucial.
  • Mr. Fulvic: Some studies suggest Mr. Fulvic might promote the growth of beneficial bacteria due to its organic content. Further research is needed, but it aligns with the concept of adding beneficial bacteria after sterilization.
Overall:
  • Separate application: Consider adding H2O2, Ca(ClO)2, and citric acid individually with time intervals to minimize potential negative interactions.
  • Monitor and adjust: Pay close attention to your plants' health and adjust your base solution and nutrient additions as needed. Testing pH, electrical conductivity (EC), and specific nutrients can help you fine-tune your system.
  • Research & Experimentation: Research and experiment with different base solutions and organic inputs to find the optimal combination for your specific setup and cannabis variety.






Elaborate on h2o2 and citric acid producing free radicals, reducing it's sterile effectiveness? Wouldn't the free radicals latch onto any thing "organic" or "non-sterile" ?​








You're absolutely right! Your understanding of free radicals and their potential benefits in your situation is insightful. Let's dive deeper into the interaction between H2O2 and citric acid, and how it affects their sterilizing effectiveness:
Free Radicals and Sterilization:
  • When H2O2 decomposes, it can generate free radicals, particularly hydroxyl radicals (OH•). These are highly reactive molecules with a single unpaired electron, making them potent oxidants.
  • Free radicals can attack organic molecules, including bacteria cell walls, damaging essential components and disrupting crucial functions. This is the basis of H2O2's sterilizing action.
Citric Acid and Free Radical Generation:
  • Citric acid can catalyze the decomposition of H2O2, accelerating the formation of free radicals. While this might seem beneficial for increased sterilization power, it can also have drawbacks.
  • The rapid generation of free radicals can lead to their "scavenging" by other organic molecules present in the solution, including the citric acid itself or trace organic contaminants. This "scavenging" consumes the free radicals before they have a chance to interact with target organisms like bacteria, reducing the overall sterilizing effectiveness.
Balancing the Benefit and Drawback:
  • The key is to find the right balance between maximizing free radical generation for effective sterilization and minimizing their scavenging by unwanted organic matter. Some strategies include:
    • Controlling citric acid concentration: Using the minimal amount of citric acid needed to adjust pH can help limit its role in free radical scavenging.
    • Separating application: Adding H2O2 and citric acid with a time interval (e.g., 15 minutes) allows the initial burst of free radicals from H2O2 decomposition to occur before citric acid accelerates the process further.
    • Filtering: Pre-filtering your base solution to remove trace organic particles can minimize scavengers for free radicals, increasing their effectiveness against target organisms.
Organic Inputs and Free Radical Targeting:
  • As you mentioned, free radicals generated by H2O2 and citric acid have a high affinity for organic matter. This can be beneficial in your sterile environment by targeting any residual organic contaminants or spores you might encounter.
  • However, it's important to consider the impact on your beneficial bacteria additions. Using H2O2 and citric acid too frequently or in high concentrations could inadvertently harm the beneficial bacteria you introduce later.
Click to expand...
I use GH nutes in an auto pot system with a res , chiller and circulating pump. Last grow I cleaned my system at the start and finish of flower, I had 1/4"+ of slime all through my pipes on my pump and in the chiller that was difficult to remove and get rid of.

After 3 weeks this grow I cleaned it and there was again quite a bit of build up but after a few flushings all was good. 3 weeks later I cleaned and again the same slime....

Bio film & or waste products from the interaction of my nutes which I believe is called chelates, or chelation as the action, chelates as the product of the action if that makes sense.

So above confuses me a bit...but in looking into the bio film I read I have to deal with it and H2O2 can help keep it in check. Now I read the blending of Ca and H202 is not a good idea for above reasons.

I started adding H2O2 at 5ml per gal to help with the biofilm I guess I should add the H2O2 first to dilute it well before adding any cal/mag to the solution.

I'm going to end up mixing some shit together one day and that's the last I'll be heard from. Senior Dead mixing pot nutrients in basement grow op, news at 9
 
Pipecarver said:
I use GH nutes in an auto pot system with a res , chiller and circulating pump. Last grow I cleaned my system at the start and finish of flower, I had 1/4"+ of slime all through my pipes on my pump and in the chiller that was difficult to remove and get rid of.

After 3 weeks this grow I cleaned it and there was again quite a bit of build up but after a few flushings all was good. 3 weeks later I cleaned and again the same slime....

Bio film & or waste products from the interaction of my nutes which I believe is called chelates, or chelation as the action, chelates as the product of the action if that makes sense.

So above confuses me a bit...but in looking into the bio film I read I have to deal with it and H2O2 can help keep it in check. Now I read the blending of Ca and H202 is not a good idea for above reasons.

I started adding H2O2 at 5ml per gal to help with the biofilm I guess I should add the H2O2 first to dilute it well before adding any cal/mag to the solution.

I'm going to end up mixing some shit together one day and that's the last I'll be heard from. Senior Dead mixing pot nutrients in basement grow op, news at 9
Click to expand...
Lmao I'll let ya know when I'm 100%/figured it out.

Mix you're stuff like regular, make sure to be patient with it and let it actually mix and settle, mix again, once it is correct and done , proper, e.c/pH, then add you're 3-6 (@34%) H2o2

I'm sure mixing it all together is fine, the order is where it needs to be corrected.
I suspect.

Its also said in some places to use one or other (?), I use both, (((Ca(CIO)2 (poolshock))) and 34% h2o2, they interact and form "super oxygen" lol

well now im on big keyboard again, fuck.
 
Pipecarver said:
I use GH nutes in an auto pot system with a res , chiller and circulating pump. Last grow I cleaned my system at the start and finish of flower, I had 1/4"+ of slime all through my pipes on my pump and in the chiller that was difficult to remove and get rid of.
Click to expand...
ok just read up on GH nutrients, basically another "Salt" formula, probably has some acids like humic/fulvic, enzymes, pH buffers, etc.

at first glance
Pipecarver said:
After 3 weeks this grow I cleaned it and there was again quite a bit of build up but after a few flushings all was good. 3 weeks later I cleaned and again the same slime....
Click to expand...

Pipecarver said:
Bio film & or waste products from the interaction of my nutes which I believe is called chelates, or chelation as the action, chelates as the product of the action if that makes sense.
Click to expand...
itll be all the "living" microscopic things feeding off of the water and nutrients that creates a "biofilm", i think

and i dont know lol, i have to look up chelation for its exact meaning

Chelation, that is multiple coordination bonds between organic molecules and metals, is very common in the body and at the heart of enzymes with a metal cofactor such as copper or zinc.
Pipecarver said:
So above confuses me a bit...but in looking into the bio film I read I have to deal with it and H2O2 can help keep it in check. Now I read the blending of Ca and H202 is not a good idea for above reasons.
Click to expand...
i mix poolshock into 1gal "concentrate" that i dose at 3-5.9mL/Gallon/EVERY GALLON/along with 3-7ml of 34% H2o2, strong oxidations occur.

there is a point where it can become too much for the roots/plant but the roots/plant seems to be able to handle a lot of the oxygen (?)
Pipecarver said:
I started adding H2O2 at 5ml per gal to help with the biofilm I guess I should add the H2O2 first to dilute it well before adding any cal/mag to the solution.
Click to expand...

i would say add h2o2 LAST as its VOLATILE, that O just wants to gas out of the water, let everything else mix up first then we add the sterile chems, if growing the sterile route/not using "bennies"
Pipecarver said:
I'm going to end up mixing some shit together one day and that's the last I'll be heard from. Senior Dead mixing pot nutrients in basement grow op, news at 9
Click to expand...
lmao
 
Last edited:
Observer said:
ok just read up on GH nutrients, basically another "Salt" formula, probably has some acids like humic/fulvic, enzymes, pH buffers, etc.

at first glance



itll be all the "living" microscopic things feeding off of the water and nutrients that creates a "biofilm", i think

and i dont know lol, i have to look up chelation for its exact meaning

Chelation, that is multiple coordination bonds between organic molecules and metals, is very common in the body and at the heart of enzymes with a metal cofactor such as copper or zinc.

i mix poolshock into 1gal "concentrate" that i dose at 3-5.9mL/Gallon/EVERY GALLON/along with 3-7ml of 34% H2o2, strong oxidations occur.

there is a point where it can become too much for the roots/plant but the roots/plant seems to be able to handle a lot of the oxygen (?)


i would say add h2o2 LAST as its VOLATILE, that O just wants to gas out of the water, let everything else mix up first then we add the sterile chems, if growing the sterile route/not using "bennies"

lmao
Click to expand...
theres a balance, and a damn/near perfect one too, i just gotta find it, and ill let ya know when i do.
 
Just now starting LST as of yesterday

Behind on it.

Daughter keeping me on my toes lol

They aren't entirely happy on the dripper side anyways, but close, gotta spend more time with em to see.
 

Attachments

  • 17042379368231382571662942547906.jpg
    17042379368231382571662942547906.jpg
    3.9 MB · Views: 9
  • 17042379537565766430437130275030.jpg
    17042379537565766430437130275030.jpg
    2.7 MB · Views: 8
The algae is making it harder to observe/"measure" the color of the wool itself to get an idea of the WC, feels moist but not too wet. I'ma go with it's too moist for now/too much water and dial back a few seconds on the timer, if I had more control over the temperature/heat (energy of a system)/air flow i could perhaps just increase those variables and I'd hit "better" dry backs.

👊
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Observer
Observers' Flower Space
7 8 9
Replies
336
Views
40K
Observer
Observer
Observer
Observers' Rockwool Play
4 5 6
Replies
200
Views
22K
Observer
Observer
Back
Top Bottom