Stoney grows Honey Fried Bananas in RDWC SCROG

[ninjadip]

i got a little further Moe, my brain is about to explode with so much new information... i need more RAM!!! hahaha

so i got the new pH probe connected and the auto calibration feature working ( i haven't put it in the solution and actually performed it yet but that will be next)

View attachment 94972

then i also got the new temperature probe connected and talking to the ph probe. also got the screen to display them both (in multi color!) and got the temp to display in fahrenheit!!!!

https://imgur.com/a/O8JL1Fl

took me quite a while but i wouldn't let it beat me.. error after error i finally figured it out!! i'm learning more about how to piece things together that are already done from different sources.

so whats next with this project? i now know how to measure the water and i also know how long it takes to dispense 1ml. how do i tie those two together?

i assume i need to define the two digital outputs, name the outputs, then in the loop some sort of "If phvalue is < 5.8 then send pin x high" sort of command. and maybe a delay till it checks it again. and another one for the >5.8.

am i even in the right ballpark? i mean are we really seven or eight lines of code away from being able to prototype this, or is there way more to the fuzzy logic then just looking and reacting over and over?

This spurred me to "upgrade" my current ph controller dosing settings by adding a cycle timer on it to do a 2 second on 15 minutes off before another ph down dosing test. Idk why I didn't think of that before. Moe is right, it always better to adjust ph slowly in rwdc, and with automation it can do that for you. Thanks for the idea!!

Edit*
I feel much *more confident on my first away trip longer than one day that the system won't need any human adjustment while I'm gone.

 

[Stoneyluv]

We have lost you now stoney..you have crossed to the other side of no return . long as you post pics I’m fine

i still got pics Max!!!! hey did ya see my new light came with Gizz sticker pre installed!! it should make the plants grow faster!!!

This spurred me to "upgrade" my current ph controller dosing settings by adding a cycle timer on it to do a 2 second on 15 off before another ph down dosing test. Idk why I didn't think of that before. Moe is right, it always better to adjust ph slowly in rwdc, and with automation it can do that for you. Thanks for the idea!!

I feel much confident on my first away trip longer than one day that the system won't need any human adjustment while I'm gone.

thats a great idea man!! another one thats been sticking with me is when moe said about diluting the up and down.. i might need to do this because my down is 20% and 1ml drops my system down 0.4. i would think thats to much for a doser...

 

[ninjadip]

i still got pics Max!!!! hey did ya see my new light came with Gizz sticker pre installed!! it should make the plants grow faster!!!

View attachment 94977



thats a great idea man!! another one thats been sticking with me is when moe said about diluting the up and down.. i might need to do this because my down is 20% and 1ml drops my system down 0.4. i would think thats to much for a doser...

Oh yes, I have mine super diluted cause my total volume is very small. This delay has made all the difference, now the pH is spot on to whatever I set the controller to. Drip a little, wait, reassess, simple but game changing. Before it would often over dose.

 

[moe.red]

i assume i need to define the two digital outputs, name the outputs, then in the loop some sort of "If phvalue is < 5.8 then send pin x high" sort of command. and maybe a delay till it checks it again. and another one for the >5.8.

am i even in the right ballpark? i mean are we really seven or eight lines of code away from being able to prototype this, or is there way more to the fuzzy logic then just looking and reacting over and over?

Yes bro, you got it. Super impressed you got this far tho.

So when I sent you the info on functions, that is where it will come in. In psudocode:

Define area
Constant PH Target = 5.8
Pin PH UP = 13
Pin PH Down = 12
Set pin PH Up, PH Down as output
Variable declarations
Other stuff

loop start

Check PH
If PH </> PH Target
call PH adjust
End IF
Check Temp
Get current date.time
Set display(temp and PH)
Log PH and temp values to serial port or sd card + date.time
delay 10000 (or however often you want to check / update display)

Loop End

Function PH Adjust(PH) {

If PH > PH target
Pin PH Down = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH Down = LOW
End IF

IF PH < PH Target
Pin PH UP = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH UP = LOW
End IF
}
//Function over


That with a little bit of finesse will get you where you need to be. We will need to add some timers and such in there so that it does not constantly dose up and down fighting itself. We will want to add some hysteresis - maybe PH Target +.02 or something. This is a trial and error thing and will need to be based on your res size, how big your circ pump is, etc. Basically we want to wait 10 minutes between dosing so you know you have good stirring and are getting a correct PH reading. May be 15 minutes in your system.

You will just keep building on all the existing functionality of reading your probes and such, and adding in these functions to do the work based on what you are reading. Your code will keep growing and the loop will get longer and longer. That's why you want to break things out into functions.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Oh yes, I have mine super diluted cause my total volume is very small. This delay has made all the difference, now the pH is spot on to whatever I set the controller to. Drip a little, wait, reassess, simple but game changing. Before it would often over dose.

having the dosing must really put your mind at ease.. just one less thing to worry about!! i can't wait to give it a try!!

Yes bro, you got it. Super impressed you got this far tho.

So when I sent you the info on functions, that is where it will come in. In psudocode:

Define area
Constant PH Target = 5.8
Pin PH UP = 13
Pin PH Down = 12
Set pin PH Up, PH Down as output
Variable declarations
Other stuff

loop start

Check PH
If PH </> PH Target
call PH adjust
End IF
Check Temp
Get current date.time
Set display(temp and PH)
Log PH and temp values to serial port or sd card + date.time
delay 10000 (or however often you want to check / update display)

Loop End

Function PH Adjust(PH) {

If PH > PH target
Pin PH Down = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH Down = LOW
End IF

IF PH < PH Target
Pin PH UP = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH UP = LOW
End IF
}
//Function over


That with a little bit of finesse will get you where you need to be. We will need to add some timers and such in there so that it does not constantly dose up and down fighting itself. We will want to add some hysteresis - maybe PH Target +.02 or something. This is a trial and error thing and will need to be based on your res size, how big your circ pump is, etc. Basically we want to wait 10 minutes between dosing so you know you have good stirring and are getting a correct PH reading. May be 15 minutes in your system.

You will just keep building on all the existing functionality of reading your probes and such, and adding in these functions to do the work based on what you are reading. Your code will keep growing and the loop will get longer and longer. That's why you want to break things out into functions.

thanks Moe!!! i understand some of that.. i'm not scared to try so i'll give it a go!!!!!

i've been keeping the code nice and neat so it's easier to modify.. each time i seem to pick up a few new things so it's been a lot fun so far!!

prime had a sale on some stuff so i picked up a couple four row displays and some double relays packs. i did a little side project and connected the TDS probe, it was much easier to add the temp probe the second time around....

 

[moe.red]

Somebody is feelin' it.

You go gurl!

 

[Stoneyluv]

one week in the books and the plants are off to a good start... growth looks good, color looks good, roots look good, well at least better than i have before so good for that!!!

my solution and choices and to put all that stuff in might not have been the best decision though. my ph has been dive bombing all week. i'd adjust it at 6 and 24 hrs later it would be under 5.
so i went back to what i learned about my cloner with the trio and drained the system tonight and put in just cal/mag and the trio. ph is now at 5.8, i'l check it tomorrow...

 

[Stoneyluv]

in thirteen hours my ph was down under 4.6.... i quit!

 

[moe.red]

WTF!!!!!!!

Coco leeching? I don’t understand

 

[Stoneyluv]

WTF!!!!!!!

Coco leeching? I don’t understand

i don't get it man...

i really washed that coco extra good before i used it, i checked it with my ec pen till it had no ppms.

it was fresh water last night. i even flushed the system first, plant sites were pure 0 ppms.. pump line was completely flushed too. i have a good system down for that now and it i swear it was clean as can be!

so in 25 gallons of 0ppm i put in 50ml calimagic - 30ml micro - 20ml bloom - 42ml gro. and 25ml enzymes, the ph was 6.4 so i put in 1.5ml down and it was 5.8... checked it a couple hour later once up to full temp and it was still spot on 5.8.

could it be the enzymes?

 

[Stoneyluv]

WTF!!!!!!!

Coco leeching? I don’t understand

and on top of al this the water was the stuff i put in my mixing barrel way before i restarted.. it's been in there for over a month with just air.. i measured it and it was 7.4ph, the exact same it was when i first put it in there!!

 

[moe.red]

So time for some testing like slg did with water samples outside the system and time.

This is absolutely not normal. I don’t see how plants this small can have this kind of effect.

I also have never seen enzymes react into a strong base ACID NOT BASE!!! Not saying it is impossible just never seen it. <Edited by MR>

I would take a cup of water out of the system after you get the ph correct and let it sit for 24 hours. Is the ph stable while the res continues to dive?

 

[moe.red]

Let’s get that ph doser going today while we figure this out.

Racking my brain as to why you are either introducing a strong base or creating a reaction that results in one. This just should not happen with the chemistry as you describe it. There is something happening here that we don’t realize.

If there is something contamination it will eventually get overcome by dosing acid until it gets with the program. You are so close on the doser at least get the ph up part running to give us time is my advice

EDIT - again with the base. I'm an idiot. Should be ACID

 

[CannaGranny]

Oh for gosh sakes, just stick it in some damn dirt!

 

[steamroller]

my solution and choices and to put all that stuff in might not have been the best decision though. my ph has been dive bombing all week. i'd adjust it at 6 and 24 hrs later it would be under 5.
so i went back to what i learned about my cloner with the trio and drained the system tonight and put in just cal/mag and the trio. ph is now at 5.8, i'l check it tomorrow...

I am just trying to figure out what causes water to act like yours is.
No hydro experience at all but I get water.
From my line of sight, I feel there has to be an organic source of rot to cause such a drastic drop.

I want to blame the Orca, Rapid start and possibly the enzymes.
But you did not install them on the last res correct?
If this is correct, then the 'contaminate' is either the trio or calmag.

Your untouched water staying stable says all I need to know about it IMO.
It is reported that too many nutrients can cause a drop.
Is you ec meter accurate/ are you doses in line with recommendations?

Here is another fairly simple test;
Pull some untreated water and ph it without anything else and set it aside.
If it is something you are adding it should stay stable after you adjust it.
If it does not stay stable then it is your water.
Trying to keep it simple?

 

[Stoneyluv]

So time for some testing like slg did with water samples outside the system and time.

This is absolutely not normal. I don’t see how plants this small can have this kind of effect.

I also have never seen enzymes react into a strong base. Not saying it is impossible just never seen it.

I would take a cup of water out of the system after you get the ph correct and let it sit for 24 hours. Is the ph stable while the res continues to dive?

good idea man!! so today when the lights came on it was 4.8 again, i took out a sample as is. then i added 5ml of up and am now at 6.0 i took out a sample of this as well. i'll let you guys know the results.

something else that seems really odd to me is when is actually starts to drop the ph.. seems really off but it seems to be solid for almost 12 hours then starts to drop after that. it's not a steady consistent drop from the start.

Let’s get that ph doser going today while we figure this out.

Racking my brain as to why you are either introducing a strong base or creating a reaction that results in one. This just should not happen with the chemistry as you describe it. There is something happening here that we don’t realize.

If there is something contamination it will eventually get overcome by dosing acid until it gets with the program. You are so close on the doser at least get the ph up part running to give us time is my advice

i worked on it a little Moe, i typed it out and hit verify and had a few red flags, not many.. just needs some tweaking i hope. i'm gonna work on it more once the sun goes down.. i'll show ya what i got so far.

also today i got a delivery from an impulse buy.. i should have asked you first before i bought it but YOLO!!! is this any good at all?


it's an UNO R4 with a esp32 on it so it has wifi and bluetooth!! even has it's own dedicated video out like the megas so it can utilize all six analog inputs!! usb C..

Oh for gosh sakes, just stick it in some damn dirt!

thats what i did with the gassy cream cake... just flipped to flower today!!

I am just trying to figure out what causes water to act like yours is.
No hydro experience at all but I get water.
From my line of sight, I feel there has to be an organic source of rot to cause such a drastic drop.

I want to blame the Orca, Rapid start and possibly the enzymes.
But you did not install them on the last res correct?
If this is correct, then the 'contaminate' is either the trio or calmag.

Your untouched water staying stable says all I need to know about it IMO.
It is reported that too many nutrients can cause a drop.
Is you ec meter accurate/ are you doses in line with recommendations?

Here is another fairly simple test;
Pull some untreated water and ph it without anything else and set it aside.
If it is something you are adding it should stay stable after you adjust it.
If it does not stay stable then it is your water.
Trying to keep it simple?

correct man, no orca no rapid start. just the five things, calimagic-trio-enzymes.

this is a great idea to test too man.. i will take it a step further even. you're right it has to be something i'm putting in right?!?! the water just on it's on didn't move. so i will pull fresh water from the tank, ph it down and wait.. if nothing changes i will add the calimagic, ph test and wait. if nothing changes add the trio same measure and wait. and lastly the enzymes. if nothing changes then it's in my system if it does change then one of these five has to be doing it, it might take six days to figure out but i just gotta know!!!

 

[moe.red]

I’m not even sure how I would go about making what you are describing happen if I wanted to.

I would want to know if it is the netpot or something in it causing it. Or if it is system / water.

This is just too weird man. Second grow in this hydro systems with unexplainable symptoms. wtf is in that water?? Ghosts?

 

[Stoneyluv]

I’m not even sure how I would go about making what you are describing happen if I wanted to.

i know, i bet i won't even be able to duplicate it with my own samples.. then what!?!

I would want to know if it is the netpot or something in it causing it. Or if it is system / water.

i don't have a lot of that coco perlite mixed up, i keep it in a tupperware it's so small.. i will take some of that and put my fresh water in it and monitor that ph alongside the other samples.

this will then cover the water, nutes, and coco.. if it's not any of those then it would suggest something in the system itself.. components, sealant, something.

This is just too weird man. Second grow in this hydro systems with unexplainable symptoms. wtf is in that water?? Ghosts?

this is where im at and i can't just bail on it.. because it worked, there was success and not much was changed in between. if it never worked ever then it would be easy to say it's the system.

i mean this was the whole plan of building this, to keep it cheap see if i liked it and if i could be good at it.. it was cheap, i like it, i just need to be good at it and i planned to buy a real system but so far this has stretched out longer than i hoped to and i feel like i keep stumbling right at the beginning of race each time. i was hoping to grow plants and make mistakes along the way and learn but this is just straight up confusing.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Yes bro, you got it. Super impressed you got this far tho.

So when I sent you the info on functions, that is where it will come in. In psudocode:

Define area
Constant PH Target = 5.8
Pin PH UP = 13
Pin PH Down = 12
Set pin PH Up, PH Down as output
Variable declarations
Other stuff

loop start

Check PH
If PH </> PH Target
call PH adjust
End IF
Check Temp
Get current date.time
Set display(temp and PH)
Log PH and temp values to serial port or sd card + date.time
delay 10000 (or however often you want to check / update display)

Loop End

Function PH Adjust(PH) {

If PH > PH target
Pin PH Down = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH Down = LOW
End IF

IF PH < PH Target
Pin PH UP = HI
Delay XXXX
Pin PH UP = LOW
End IF
}
//Function over


That with a little bit of finesse will get you where you need to be. We will need to add some timers and such in there so that it does not constantly dose up and down fighting itself. We will want to add some hysteresis - maybe PH Target +.02 or something. This is a trial and error thing and will need to be based on your res size, how big your circ pump is, etc. Basically we want to wait 10 minutes between dosing so you know you have good stirring and are getting a correct PH reading. May be 15 minutes in your system.

You will just keep building on all the existing functionality of reading your probes and such, and adding in these functions to do the work based on what you are reading. Your code will keep growing and the loop will get longer and longer. That's why you want to break things out into functions.

i have a bunch of ph tests laid out right now and feel we'll have enough data by monday early evening to nail down my ph sinking.

until then i was trying to fill in blanks on the the doser code.

i'm stuck at how to call or define the PH_Adjust command. i've tried a couple things i thought it might be like a void or just #define but it's not happy with those and the only way i can make it happy is putting ( ) after it. (line 22) i have a strong feeling this is wrong but not sure what is correct.

i'm getting an error only on that line at this point.. or maybe i'm just faking out the beginning i'm just not sure where my error is.

my code thus far..(no data log stuff in there yet)



help me Obi Wan...

 

[moe.red]

i have a bunch of ph tests laid out right now and feel we'll have enough data by monday early evening to nail down my ph sinking.

until then i was trying to fill in blanks on the the doser code.

i'm stuck at how to call or define the PH_Adjust command. i've tried a couple things i thought it might be like a void or just #define but it's not happy with those and the only way i can make it happy is putting ( ) after it. (line 22) i have a strong feeling this is wrong but not sure what is correct.

i'm getting an error only on that line at this point.. or maybe i'm just faking out the beginning i'm just not sure where my error is.

my code thus far..(no data log stuff in there yet)

View attachment 95441View attachment 95440

help me Obi Wan...

Ok no problem you have to pass it the ph value. Can you email me the ino file and I’ll fix it up for ya.

What I sent was pseudo code it needed tweaking based on what you had already, variable names, etc. I should have been more clear. It was intended to describe the logic but not be copy and paste.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Ok no problem you have to pass it the ph value. Can you email me the ino file and I’ll fix it up for ya.

What I sent was pseudo code it needed tweaking based on what you had already, variable names, etc. I should have been more clear. It was intended to describe the logic but not be copy and paste.

i knew my "phValue" needed to be linked somehow.. just wasn't sure where or how many times.

i figured your guide wasn't line for line but some of the caps and colors made me think you laid it out special for a reason.

i've ran all the hardware so far except for the relays thats the only wires i need to connect to the bench test yet.

i really appreciate your help Moe!!!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

i don't have a definitive answer on the pH tests yet. messing with me for sure.. so today after a full 24hrs the RDWC system has not moved at all. it's still 5.8 from when i added 5ml of up yesterday right before the race started. been 27 hours and it's still the same.. IDK it ain't broke so i'm in holding pattern.. i need to go back and look in my notes. Aqua Man taught me something a while back about the affects of water when air is not introduced before the nutes, i can't remember exactly what it was but i might have it written down or typed out. i'll check if i can't find it i'll bug him again on it.. it might be a factor in this. idk

all the other tests seem steady as well, the one that moved the most was the tap water with just ph down, that one drifted up 0.7
and the beaker with just plain tap and nothing added seemed to dive down a bit, i have everything written down and will continue to monitor.
it's enough that i need to do an extra dab or two to keep what little of sanity i have left!!!

it's pouring rain out now so i'm gonna add a beaker of that to the test... no rain collector or plumbing from it, just mother nature falling from the sky.

plants are growing, some slight issues that i'm not to sure about one my be slight mutation and the other might still be my leaf curl issue.. way to early to say for sure but noteworthy nonetheless!

i will say though one goal was for a better root base and not so one stranded.. i gotta say i need to take a mini victory where i can get it!!!

her downstairs first...





her cousins came over to play... a little SIP in soil airpot action!!! Funky Monkey

 

[Stoneyluv]

Racking my brain as to why you are either introducing a strong base or creating a reaction that results in one. This just should not happen with the chemistry as you describe it. There is something happening here that we don’t realize.

I am just trying to figure out what causes water to act like yours is.
No hydro experience at all but I get water.
From my line of sight, I feel there has to be an organic source of rot to cause such a drastic drop.

guys i'm pretty sure there is something in my rdwc system that is the problem. last night at 7pm i said it was fine, at midnight it was 4.8.. i put in a lot of up and some down to try and make a buffer to slow it down but all the samples were and still are perfectly fine. the sample of just the same solution has crept up 0.1. same with the sample with the coco in it, that bumped up .2. all the other samples of water mostly stayed steady. the water with just down came up a little but it was unaerated and the tiniest bit of down lowered the small amount so much i was expecting it to come up a little anyway. it's not diving at all and that was the test.

i didn't pour anything out and will continue the test but my heart sunk last night when that ph was low. i didn't want to believe it and even quickly cleaned and calibrated my ph pen (it was spot on anyway) because i didn't want to believe that rez was really that low, it was. it's fine now at 5.8 but i don't feel good about it and if it's low again tomorrow i will be confident it's something in there.

to be continued...

 

[moe.red]

Man I have thought for the last 2 grows now there was a contamination in your system. I don’t know what. But the curled leaves last grow and this ph thing….

I would think it is fixable but probably not during a grow. I would expect that if you use a strong acid to bring the ph up to 10 and run the system holding it there for a few days it would neutralize the base that is causing your problem. Then run it a couple days with tap water and bleach. Finally draining and reset using rain water. Put in the nutes and get to 5.8 and run it for a couple days without plants. Verify ph sticks now

1 week without plants should reset this system for you I would think.

This sucks man sorry you are going thru this. I have never seen this issue before, new territory for me. I do not know what is causing it.

I used to make biodiesel. Big cone shaped vat that the waste oil goes in then other chemicals get added heated stirred then separated into bio and waste.

At the end there are certain tests you run to verify good product. Been doing it for a while and not having problems. Then all of a sudden I cannot pass a 3:27 test no matter what I do. Driving me insane. Multiple batches fail.

Turns out a rubber hand grip from my dirt bike that was on the shelf over the vat had fallen in at some point when the lid was off. Every time the methoxide got added to start the process it would start eating at the grip and destroying my batch.

I kicked myself for weeks over all the source oil I wasted because of carelessness but at least I had my solution. I think you have a hand grip somewhere in your rdwc. It will be obvious when you finally figure it out but right now it’s a head scratcher.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Man I have thought for the last 2 grows now there was a contamination in your system. I don’t know what. But the curled leaves last grow and this ph thing….

it was all of your first reactions to the symptoms. i probably shouldn't have rushed these plants in there.. rushing to fast always bites me in the ass! i never learn.

I would think it is fixable but probably not during a grow. I would expect that if you use a strong acid to bring the ph up to 10 and run the system holding it there for a few days it would neutralize the base that is causing your problem. Then run it a couple days with tap water and bleach. Finally draining and reset using rain water. Put in the nutes and get to 5.8 and run it for a couple days without plants. Verify ph sticks now

i want to look for whatever it may be, i would think this has to be a chunk or blob or something large enough to be seen?

the whole time release thing is just totally confusing.. i almost want to set up that new ph probe to a logger and let it go for a day and half!! it's like a mouse is peeing in my rez every night when i go to sleep! just weird how it's been doing this exactly every night. so messed up.

1 week without plants should reset this system for you I would think.

i knew this wasn't gonna be quick... sucks!

I used to make biodiesel. Big cone shaped vat that the waste oil goes in then other chemicals get added heated stirred then separated into bio and waste.

At the end there are certain tests you run to verify good product. Been doing it for a while and not having problems. Then all of a sudden I cannot pass a 3:27 test no matter what I do. Driving me insane. Multiple batches fail.

Turns out a rubber hand grip from my dirt bike that was on the shelf over the vat had fallen in at some point when the lid was off. Every time the methoxide got added to start the process it would start eating at the grip and destroying my batch.

I kicked myself for weeks over all the source oil I wasted because of carelessness but at least I had my solution. I think you have a hand grip somewhere in your rdwc. It will be obvious when you finally figure it out but right now it’s a head scratcher.

could my grip possibly be the seal in a can i used? or teflon goop for fitting threads? i mean it didn;t do it before but that don't mean it can't now i guess..

i've seen you using it on your lids so i figured it was okay.. i used the spray.

i didn't go check it yet today, lights just came on now..

 

[moe.red]

could my grip possibly be the seal in a can i used? or teflon goop for fitting threads?

I really wouldn't think so.

OK, first I need to apologize. I have been saying the PH / acid / base thing wrong. Your res is going acidic not basic. I'm a brain fart idiot. I also need to admit this is not the first time I got these wrong. Need to quit shooting from the hip.

Your issue is added acids, not bases, no matter what the idiot posted above. That said, you should probably take everything I post with a grain of salt.

If your water has no hardness which is the case with rain water, it would not take much to make the water drop or raise ph.

Here, listen to someone who does not have their head up the azz syndrome:

1. CO2 Concentration in Water​

The concentration of carbon dioxide (CO2) dissolved in water becomes a factor that affects pH. The reason is carbon dioxide triggers an increase in the concentration of hydrogen ions which makes the pH of the water decrease. That means when carbon dioxide is high, the pH of water automatically becomes acidic. This carbon dioxide can come from the atmosphere and air around polluted water. Apart from pollution, carbon dioxide also comes from the process of plant respiration that occurs at night, where much carbon dioxide is released. This causes the water to have a lower pH than neutral. While during the day, where many plants photosynthesize by releasing oxygen, the pH of the water will rise.

2. Temperature​

The temperature at which water is located affects the solubility of carbon dioxide. When water gets a lot of heat intensity from sunlight, the surface temperature will rise. When the surface temperature of the water rises, the solubility of carbon dioxide will decrease so that the pH will rise and the water is alkaline. Meanwhile, when the temperature and temperature decrease, then the surface temperature of the water will come down and automatically the level of carbon dioxide solubility becomes higher. Therefore, when temperatures are cold, the pH of the water will drop and the water will be acidic.

3. Carbonate and Bicarbonate Concentrations​

Next, the factors that affect pH are carbonate and bicarbonate ions which are basic. If water has a high enough concentration of carbonate and bicarbonate ions, the pH will change. From what was originally neutral, the water will turn into a base.

If initially acidic, it can turn into neutral after receiving additional carbonate ions and bicarbonate ions. Changes in water into a base due to carbonate and bicarbonate ions often occur in water flowing out of the mouth of the cave by passing carbonate rocks that contain calcium.

4. Organic Material Decomposition Process​

Decomposition is the process of decay that occurs in organic matter and living things that are in the water. Because organic matter and living things contain the element carbon (C), so when the decomposition process occurs, there will be a lot of carbon released into the water. However, because organic compounds tend to be unstable and easily oxidized, what enters the water is carbon dioxide and water itself.

Therefore, when there is carbon dioxide entering the water, it is certain that the pH level will change. Water that was originally neutral can become acidic because the dissolved inorganic carbon content can increase hydrogen ions so that the pH will decrease. Therefore, when working in a laboratory or industrial production process, it is better to keep water away from organic materials that can change the initial pH.



So maybe cut the bubbling in half to start with, and make 100% sure there is nothing organic in there to decompose? Maybe the time lag comes from the time the bacteria take to convert organics to waste?

 

[moe.red]

I went back and edited the 2 posts where I said base vs acid for clarity and future readers. Again sorry if I threw you off.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I really wouldn't think so.

i didn't either and it's been in there since day one. just had to ask..

OK, first I need to apologize. I have been saying the PH / acid / base thing wrong. Your res is going acidic not basic. I'm a brain fart idiot. I also need to admit this is not the first time I got these wrong. Need to quit shooting from the hip.

Your issue is added acids, not bases, no matter what the idiot posted above. That said, you should probably take everything I post with a grain of salt.

i totally missed right passed that man, i followed along and understood what you were meaning and never caught the typo!! haha great that you edited it for back reads!!! Thanks!!!

If your water has no hardness which is the case with rain water, it would not take much to make the water drop or raise ph.

Here, listen to someone who does not have their head up the azz syndrome:

thanks a lot for this, some good stuff in here and now bookmarked!!!!

So maybe cut the bubbling in half to start with, and make 100% sure there is nothing organic in there to decompose? Maybe the time lag comes from the time the bacteria take to convert organics to waste?

hmm.. my bubbles are quite strong. now that i think about it Smoke and i had a convo about this once before. I'm using an ALITA 6A pump, this is what i use for my rez and two buckets. sometimes i also bubble the mixing barrel with it too.


so i ran a line from my air manifold to my rain collector and another to a side project to bleed off some air. it's now at least half of what it was. it looks like this now, does this look acceptable?

https://imgur.com/duooTbt

https://imgur.com/4xtNhol

.
.

tonight the rez ph was low again (5.0) the sample of this same solution from days ago hasn't moved. 100% confirmed.



so in a way it good that we know it's the system or in it and what to concentrate on.. and we know it's not my water.

even though we still don't know exactly what it is yet this is still way better than dealing with mites!!! way better!!! HA!

 

[Stoneyluv]

 

[Stoneyluv]

after cleaning everything really good and lowering the air bubbles the ph seems to be controllable. it's at least acting like water now, it's drifting up more than i'd like but i'd rather deal with that versus the hard dive.

i thought just flushing the system out would have cleaned it but i had to drain in out and wipe down every surface and had to remove all the water lines and swab them out along with the recirculation pipes. once every inch was cleaned i wiped it all down again with 12% peroxide and then flushed it all out with fresh water. then drained it all again, wiped it clean with white rags one last time for a finger test and then pumped the solution back in.

the ph is now drifting up around .2-.3 per day, not bad, not great.. the doser will really with this and should be much better for the plants.

as for the plants... well thats the bad news.. i'm pretty sure i gotta start over again. the one is a mutant and just not growing proper. i don't really wanna go forward with only one plant.

i want to test a few things and see whats up before i just dive into a new start again.. i need to make sure the system and lights and nutes and me and everything just jives and is working 100% before i start over.

i'll get some pics up in a day or two.. i mean i could be wrong and she grows out of it.. just don't wanna make an impulse decision again. and i want to be 100% certain the leaf curl is gone and have zero issues. once i know these things i will start new seeds.

 

[Stoneyluv]

something else i forget to mention, i replaced the air stones with brand new ones. i put the old two in muriatic acid a few days ago and they were pretty gross...



i think today is the fourth day now that the ph is tending up. again today it drifted up to 6.2 i add 0.75ml of down and it outs it at 5.8.

other good news is the roots, i'm happy with the results i'm seeing..



i notice a little dark spot, hoping that's nothing to be worried about...

another plus i'm liking is the color in their cheeks, it's a much darker green and matches my soil plants color.

now some of my problems.. i'm still getting the curls.. then next set of leaves is burned. same as before so it wasn't the genetics, it wasn't the nutes and i've now confirmed it's not the light because i've had the old 275 back in there and not even using either of those two 550's.. so to help narrow it down i've decided to start some soil plants next to them. it takes till right around the three week mark to show the signs, at least both sets of hydro plants did. so i'm going to keep growing exactly how i am and continue to try and figure this odd issue out.

some pics of what i have right now today..

the goofy goof..


just now seeing that algae on top^ ... in soil this is signs of severe overwater.. should i be concerned here? all my alarms are ringing right now..

the other plant and a close up of the leaf...




the young soil plants..



so in holding pattern till i figure this out. and if the soil plants would happen to not curl then i have to believe there is something wrong with my rdwc in which case would mean destruction and buy a new system.. can't afford it right now.

other side is the soil plants also curl.. hmmm.. with a completely different and proven light i would have to believe a poison in the wood somehow.. a tent could probably solve that theory if the soil plants curl.

just trying to narrow this down in any way i can think of..

 

[Observer]

Too much carbonic acid?

Growing a shit ton of anaerobic "bad" bacteria?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Too much carbonic acid?

I'm not sure man, i never got those sensor tips yet. the dude from ebay never sent them and just returned my money ten days later with no comment. so i went back to the chinese and ordered two and they just landed in NY so maybe i'll have em over the weekend or early next week.

when i have that i can accurately measure my DO...

Growing a shit ton of anaerobic "bad" bacteria?

i hope not, thats what i pay Orca for.. to beat out the bad stuff.

i'm tempted to ditch the coco for now, one it could be holding the problem.. two, i don't like that green stuff!.. three, maybe i'm not good enough to strive for the optimum and should go back to hydroten... actually i think i might just do that.

 

[Observer]

I'm not sure man, i never got those sensor tips yet. the dude from ebay never sent them and just returned my money ten days later with no comment. so i went back to the chinese and ordered two and they just landed in NY so maybe i'll have em over the weekend or early next week.

when i have that i can accurately measure my DO...



i hope not, thats what i pay Orca for.. to beat out the bad stuff.

i'm tempted to ditch the coco for now, one it could be holding the problem.. two, i don't like that green stuff!.. three, maybe i'm not good enough to strive for the optimum and should go back to hydroten... actually i think i might just do that.

And how old are your nutrients that you're using? Is it possible those liquid bottles are "contaminated"?

 

[Observer]

Maybe bleach/scrub the whole system and change to collars/a different medium

Idk Moe's got ya in good hands though

Just throwing out thoughts

 

[Bandit420]

FWIW man, there's something off about 'Nova since Hawthorne took over GH.
Something different about the formula in it being way hotter than before and I'm not sure about the fulvic in there. I'm finding it a bitch to work with where as before the takeover it was super ez and very plant friendly.

 

[Stoneyluv]

And how old are your nutrients that you're using? Is it possible those liquid bottles are "contaminated"?

i just bought the trio a few weeks ago. i'm not sure how long it was on amazons shelf.. i'll look on the bottles and see if there's a date..

Maybe bleach/scrub the whole system and change to collars/a different medium

Idk Moe's got ya in good hands though

Just throwing out thoughts

i've recently mechanically wiped out the whole thing but did not flush or soak at all. i think i'll follow your advice and just drain and clean, i'll use bleach, peroxide, and dish soap. i also just ordered some h2o2 test strips so once i run all that stuff in it for a few hours i'll drain and flush a few times and then fill it up and put 20ppms of h2o2 like Moe does. i'll let this run for a few days until i get 0ppms and try and start from there.

is there any other steps i can take to clean it?

oh and yes, i will go with completely new medium, new seedlings all over again.

FWIW man, there's something off about 'Nova since Hawthorne took over GH.
Something different about the formula in it being way hotter than before and I'm not sure about the fulvic in there. I'm finding it a bitch to work with where as before the takeover it was super ez and very plant friendly.

ya know i kinda felt my first bottle of veg was acting way different from this second bottle.. i wonder? i thought i was just crazy because of the other issues i was experiencing and thought maybe it was just the mites causing it. maybe it was the nova back then and i didn't realize it?

that stuff just imbeds itself into everything.. it has permanently stained my ph sample cups, i just use those to take the value and pour it out... i can't imagine all the plastic inside the system were it sat.

 

[Stoneyluv]

results, conclusions, fixes and future plans...

when i left off last week my ph was all over the place, i still had the curls and burns, and this new algae issue.

the ph was nothing, it was directly related to my air adjustments. the oh was crashing hard, Moe suggested cutting the air in half. this caused the ph to climb, once i split the difference the ph has been rock solid for a week now. i finally got the new membrane caps for the DO sensor so once i start over i'll be able to measure this and set the air to a science and not guess by eye like i'm doing now. but it was just an adjustment and part of a growing pain of DIY.

.

the curls and burns.. that was a big one that has been plaquing me for a while now. like three months while now. turns out i was poisoning them with ethylene. i've never had this issue before because i never used my grow spaces in this way before. they have always been one veg one flower. now i'm using them independent and because i was starting plants in both sides and had the heat on i had sealed up the intake and exhaust to keep the heat in. the soil plants started to burn in same way. at the same time i had been flowering the dark side and cranking up the lights causing the exhaust to run, stopping the burn. as a test i sealed it back up and the burn continued. unsealed it and the burn stops. i will eliminate this with an air scrubber and shouldn't even be an issue again till the end of the year.

just days after fresh air exchange..


.

and my last standing issue is now the algae, this was created by over saturated coco and will be a major problem if not addressed now. so i turned down my bubbles a little and changed out the elbows on the waterfalls to help reduce the splashing. i'm pretty close right now but would like a little less yet. i might lower my water level a tiny bit to see if it will help. for now i'm moving the airstone around and seeing some good results. for now i'm letting a cloth inside the netcup, i figure if i can keep that from saturating than i can keep coco in there. this is where i'm at right now..



.

so good news in a way i guess. nothing wrong with the setup, just total grower error on all of it except for the splashing, i need to modify that to make that work. i feel i'm close to solving it.

.

i can't thank our commander and chief Moe Red enough for all his help. he never gave up an me and has been helping me everyday to figure this out. this is something he's had a hunch on since the beginning and now and we're confident this has been my issue.

.

so where does this leave me???.. i don't want to continue with just one plant and i don't want different size plants so i will be starting over.
first i will drain, bleach/scrub, drain, refill and start new seeds.

so with that said i think i will end this journal and start a new one for the fresh start. i'll leave a final post yet showing what it took to get the splashing lowered and get that final issue solved before starting again and leave a link to new journal.

 

[Skinnypuppy80]

results, conclusions, fixes and future plans...

when i left off last week my ph was all over the place, i still had the curls and burns, and this new algae issue.

the ph was nothing, it was directly related to my air adjustments. the oh was crashing hard, Moe suggested cutting the air in half. this caused the ph to climb, once i split the difference the ph has been rock solid for a week now. i finally got the new membrane caps for the DO sensor so once i start over i'll be able to measure this and set the air to a science and not guess by eye like i'm doing now. but it was just an adjustment and part of a growing pain of DIY.

.

the curls and burns.. that was a big one that has been plaquing me for a while now. like three months while now. turns out i was poisoning them with ethylene. i've never had this issue before because i never used my grow spaces in this way before. they have always been one veg one flower. now i'm using them independent and because i was starting plants in both sides and had the heat on i had sealed up the intake and exhaust to keep the heat in. the soil plants started to burn in same way. at the same time i had been flowering the dark side and cranking up the lights causing the exhaust to run, stopping the burn. as a test i sealed it back up and the burn continued. unsealed it and the burn stops. i will eliminate this with an air scrubber and shouldn't even be an issue again till the end of the year.

just days after fresh air exchange..
View attachment 98124

.

and my last standing issue is now the algae, this was created by over saturated coco and will be a major problem if not addressed now. so i turned down my bubbles a little and changed out the elbows on the waterfalls to help reduce the splashing. i'm pretty close right now but would like a little less yet. i might lower my water level a tiny bit to see if it will help. for now i'm moving the airstone around and seeing some good results. for now i'm letting a cloth inside the netcup, i figure if i can keep that from saturating than i can keep coco in there. this is where i'm at right now..

View attachment 98125

.

so good news in a way i guess. nothing wrong with the setup, just total grower error on all of it except for the splashing, i need to modify that to make that work. i feel i'm close to solving it.

.

i can't thank our commander and chief Moe Red enough for all his help. he never gave up an me and has been helping me everyday to figure this out. this is something he's had a hunch on since the beginning and now and we're confident this has been my issue.

.

so where does this leave me???.. i don't want to continue with just one plant and i don't want different size plants so i will be starting over.
first i will drain, bleach/scrub, drain, refill and start new seeds.

so with that said i think i will end this journal and start a new one for the fresh start. i'll leave a final post yet showing what it took to get the splashing lowered and get that final issue solved before starting again and leave a link to new journal.

Sad to hear u r having to start over again, but at least u got the curling issue figured out. Can u remind me of ur hydro setup? Also, u r messing around w arduino to automate the system? I'm really curious about that as I want to use my raspberry pi5 to help w that on my own system, mainly to have a cheaper version of checking the ph, ppm, and temp on a real, constant time. Or do you think getting a guardian is just as good or even possibly cheaper?

 

[Skinnypuppy80]

It's really cool to have been watching ur thread, very informative and interesting. Can't wait to see ur next thread, I'll b watching for it!