Stoney's Soil vs Hydro Apple Fritter Auto show

[SSgrower]

I found Rooted Leaf for my silica needs but I am in customized coco mix, my own. I hated Power Si,messy as heck! Carry on "Hydro-class", I am following,thanks.

 

[Aqua Man]

Im betting that stuff comes right off with a rinse or even just clean hands and light brush. I am pretty certain its diatoms. Very common issue with silicon dioxide and harmless but should be rinsed off.

This usually goes away after a system has had a few weeks to settle in.

Running sterile or live will help reduce them bit nothing to panic over

 

[Stoneyluv]

Don’t make it look too easy now.

Doing great man. Can’t wait to see how things turn out.

gotta say man, it's not very hard when ya got people in your corner helping you out!!

the finish of it will be my real test!!!

Those are looking a little dark. What all you got in the water?

floranova and floralicious!!! good stuff man!!!! stuff is darker and thicker than organics!!!!

GH Floranova has a humic acid in it derived from leonardite which makes it so sludgy and it stains everything. Before too long even the underside of the ducky will be stained brown

Ducky sure is stained already. even his head keeps getting it just from the lid... crazy thing is when you spill some on the cement floor it dries white not brown!!!

I found Rooted Leaf for my silica needs but I am in customized coco mix, my own. I hated Power Si,messy as heck! Carry on "Hydro-class", I am following,thanks.

yea i looked at the silica i have for soil and i couldn't use that either. comes from silica dioxide and i want potassium.

Im betting that stuff comes right off with a rinse or even just clean hands and light brush. I am pretty certain its diatoms. Very common issue with silicon dioxide and harmless but should be rinsed off.

This usually goes away after a system has had a few weeks to settle in.

Running sterile or live will help reduce them bit nothing to panic over

it does come right off. it looks way worse in the photo than real life. it's looks thick and sludgy in the photo but it's not it's thin and comes off just touching the root and not even brushing it off. doesn't seem to stick to the clay or plastic buckets yet.

 

[Aqua Man]

gotta say man, it's not very hard when ya got people in your corner helping you out!!

the finish of it will be my real test!!!



floranova and floralicious!!! good stuff man!!!! stuff is darker and thicker than organics!!!!



Ducky sure is stained already. even his head keeps getting it just from the lid... crazy thing is when you spill some on the cement floor it dries white not brown!!!



yea i looked at the silica i have for soil and i couldn't use that either. comes from silica dioxide and i want potassium.



it does come right off. it looks way worse in the photo than real life. it's looks thick and sludgy in the photo but it's not it's thin and comes off just touching the root and not even brushing it off. doesn't seem to stick to the clay or plastic buckets yet.

Yeah it will be like snot lol..

 

[Stoneyluv]

Yeah it will be like snot lol..

is that just the nova series? or does the trio do that too?

 

[Aqua Man]

is that just the nova series? or does the trio do that too?

The staining is likely both. Never used em.

The snot is a mix diatoms and bacteria. Are you running live, sterile or neither? I am assuming live or nothing.

Bacteria form from root exudes and diatoms from silicon dioxide. The food source is the result. Top feeding every few days can reduce these from the roots but not a big concern until they get all snoty than it can affect o2 uptake.

Sterile will also eliminate it

 

[Aqua Man]

Both are actually healthy signs though

 

[Bandit420]

Here's a few videos of my 'Nova run in DWC.
Roots near the stalk were very dark and lighten up to whiteish down low. Looks scary but it's just staining as everything up top was happy and lush.
I think root rot will kinda look the opposite with white near the stalk and dark and nasty down low and have a foul odor. Roots kinda have that earthy smell and it's not exactly aromatic but when they rot you can smell the foulness.
The 3D printed net pot was made with "crystal" filament and there's nothing crystal about it anymore being soaked in that stuff.
I think the white stuff you saw after it dried on the floor was salt residue. It will also build up around the waterline inside the system and can be wiped away. You'll see some of that on the outside of the container I used where solution had spilled over the side.

This was also an experiment to see how far I could push it into organics. It was 'Nova + liquid crab + liquid squid + King Crab. The bennies in the King Crab may have played a role in help cleaning up the staining for me because they were no where near as dark brown as previous trials using 'Nova. When I ran out of KC in the last video the staining returned

https://imgur.com/a/9CyT6qS

https://imgur.com/a/KvsAJeo

https://imgur.com/a/KvsAJeo

https://imgur.com/a/2GmSSAe

 

[Stoneyluv]

The snot is a mix diatoms and bacteria. Are you running live, sterile or neither? I am assuming live or nothing.

yes sir, i am live. using orca and king crab

Both are actually healthy signs though

good to know. will it give the whole system a slime coat of it, or will it mainly stick to the roots? just curios if i ever decide to change nutrient brands or types or go sterile is it going to be a problem?

Here's a few videos of my 'Nova run in DWC.
Roots near the stalk were very dark and lighten up to whiteish down low. Looks scary but it's just staining as everything up top was happy and lush.
I think root rot will kinda look the opposite with white near the stalk and dark and nasty down low and have a foul odor. Roots kinda have that earthy smell and it's not exactly aromatic but when they rot you can smell the foulness.
The 3D printed net pot was made with "crystal" filament and there's nothing crystal about it anymore being soaked in that stuff.
I think the white stuff you saw after it dried on the floor was salt residue. It will also build up around the waterline inside the system and can be wiped away. You'll see some of that on the outside of the container I used where solution had spilled over the side.

This was also an experiment to see how far I could push it into organics. It was 'Nova + liquid crab + liquid squid + King Crab. The bennies in the King Crab may have played a role in help cleaning up the staining for me because they were no where near as dark brown as previous trials using 'Nova. When I ran out of KC in the last video the staining returned

https://imgur.com/a/9CyT6qS

https://imgur.com/a/KvsAJeo

https://imgur.com/a/KvsAJeo

https://imgur.com/a/2GmSSAe

yea i used the king crab too... the flouralicious is even darker than all of them combined!!! at just 600ppms it's darker than iced tea now!!!!!

my clear air tubes are all stained already in just one week... and yeah ducky will need weekly showers if i leave him in there!!!

 

[Zen_seeker]

 

[Aqua Man]

good to know. will it give the whole system a slime coat of it, or will it mainly stick to the roots? just curios if i ever decide to change nutrient brands or types or go sterile is it going to be a problem?

It may coat the system but it’s beneficial bacteria. So don’t wipe it off. It will be just a clear thin film. But if it builds up on roots just remove. Its in a bloom phase and will recede after a week or so

 

[Stoneyluv]

View attachment 70526

mine will look like that eventually!!!! she was a shiny pretty virgin and i made here all dirty!!!!! haha



wiped her down and sent her back out on the street!!! good news is that staining comes right off. it's not staining the yellow lid at all either.. weird.

It may coat the system but it’s beneficial bacteria. So don’t wipe it off. It will be just a clear thin film. But if it builds up on roots just remove. Its in a bloom phase and will recede after a week or so

more good info and what to expect. i kind of realized last week when i first showed you that on my roots and you didn't make a big deal so i figured it wasn't bad to have.

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things are cooking good today!!!! turns out the Armor Si was not doing a good job buffering and may be watered down to much to be a buffer. so Aqua Man got me on track by using pH up as a buffer at 2ml a gallon mixed just as the silica gets mixed. so at 28 hours now the ph only drifted up .3 so i'm happy, the plants are happy... all is well!!!!

i gotta say though it was a busy first week and learned a bunch.. even got all the notes to remember!!!



plants are growing so it was time to give them the veg spectrum... probably bump this up 10% each week





and the soil plants really liked those left over nutrients so i'll probably keep doing that!!! all of them have a good color so no foop mist for two days now.

 

[GrumpAzz]

So don’t wipe it off

wiped her down

This gave me a good chuckle.

 

[GrumpAzz]

Yo bro. I forgot ai saw this a few days ago.. you're 3D printer savvy. Something like this might be in your future. I think it's fuckin' sweet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hydroponics/s/osxDTss0kr

 

[Stoneyluv]

Yo bro. I forgot ai saw this a few days ago.. you're 3D printer savvy. Something like this might be in your future. I think it's fuckin' sweet.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Hydroponics/s/osxDTss0kr

thats really cool, surprising that its all less than four spools of filament. i like the cross pipe with the recirc under it!!

 

[GrumpAzz]

I like the cross pipe with the recirc under it!!

Yeah that 5-way fitting is badass

 

[GrumpAzz]

Hey @moe.red, what's the science behind letting the Agsil set for a day or so?

 

[GrumpAzz]

Yo I'm gonna humble brag a bit but with encouragement being the intent

I've only been using this new system for about 7 or so weeks. First grow with it, and I'm sure you recall my recent pH probe incident...

Well I mixed this recent batch of nutes last Saturday. My probe was toast before that so I mixed it in the top-off with my lower res probe and haven't checked it since. 2 days ago, I added a roughly estimated amount of pH-Down. Got the new probe in yesterday morning. Hooked it up and it's 5.8 on the money. Got home from work this morning.. 5.8 on the money.

All that to say YOU GOT IT BRO.
It'll come with time and experience.

Also, never forget..

You don't have to understand it if it works

-Grump

 

[moe.red]

Hey @moe.red, what's the science behind letting the Agsil set for a day or so?

https://scienceinhydroponics.com/2023/02/common-questions-about-silicon-in-nutrient-solutions.html

That website is full of great info on silica and everything hydro really.

How do I properly use a potassium silicate?​

First, if using a solid, you need to prepare a stock solution no more concentrated than 45g/L. The recommendation with AgSil 16H would be to prepare a stock solution at 15g/gal and then using this solution at a rate of 38mL/gal of final solution (injection rate of 1%). To increase the stability of your AgSil 16H concentrate you can add 1g/gal of KOH. The end addition to your solution will be +9.8ppm of Si as elemental Si and +11.55ppm of K. The KOH addition and low 15g/gal concentration ensures that silicate will already be largely present as monomeric silicate anions.

Second, make sure to add this solution to your water first. If you add this solution after nutrients, the Si will come into contact with Ca and Mg in its concentrated form, which will cause problems with its stability in solution. Add it first, then add your lowest pH fertilizer concentrate, then your Ca containing concentrate, then finally decrease the pH with an acid to the desired level if needed.

This procedure ensures you get a final solution containing monosilicic acid that will be stable. If you increase the Si in the stock solution, change the injection order, or increase the Si in the end solution beyond 20ppm of Si as elemental Si you might end up with precipitated and unavailable Si forms.


Bold is mine. You want a monosilicic acid final step.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I'm sure you recall my recent pH probe incident...

i forgot to say, if you want a bracket printed out to mount that so you don't use duct tape i'd be happy to make you one.

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i'm getting better with the ph, added a bit more buffer the other day and last night night i didn't even need to adjust the ph it was so steady!! also getting better with knowing how much to put in to lower, when i hit 5.9 and i put in 2.3ml of down it puts it at 5.5

my ppms are a little hot at the moment but the plants still look good, i gave that mom plant in the same room some of the left over solution and she thought it was pretty hot!! i gave her like a gallon though. the other soil plants perked up nice when i gave them some. the gallon challenge plant is still kicking all their butts.. kinda irks me..

To increase the stability of your AgSil 16H concentrate you can add 1g/gal of KOH.

thanks Moe!!!!! what is KOH?

prepare a stock solution at 15g/gal and then using this solution at a rate of 38mL/gal of final solution

just fifteen grams of A15 per gallon of water?

 

[moe.red]

i forgot to say, if you want a bracket printed out to mount that so you don't use duct tape i'd be happy to make you one.

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i'm getting better with the ph, added a bit more buffer the other day and last night night i didn't even need to adjust the ph it was so steady!! also getting better with knowing how much to put in to lower, when i hit 5.9 and i put in 2.3ml of down it puts it at 5.5

my ppms are a little hot at the moment but the plants still look good, i gave that mom plant in the same room some of the left over solution and she thought it was pretty hot!! i gave her like a gallon though. the other soil plants perked up nice when i gave them some. the gallon challenge plant is still kicking all their butts.. kinda irks me..


thanks Moe!!!!! what is KOH?



just fifteen grams of A15 per gallon of water?

Potassium hydroxide

Commonly used in ph probe storage

 

[Aqua Man]

Potassium hydroxide

Commonly used in ph probe storage

He is using ph up that contains potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate

 

[Stoneyluv]

Potassium hydroxide

Commonly used in ph probe storage

He is using ph up that contains potassium hydroxide and potassium carbonate

like ragu baby "it's in there!!"

Aqua, this must be why you said the both of them together would be better than either one alone.

dual teaming the buffer. (well not yet i'm not.) but i will be soon!

 

[Stoneyluv]

First, if using a solid, you need to prepare a stock solution no more concentrated than 45g/L. The recommendation with AgSil 16H would be to prepare a stock solution at 15g/gal and then using this solution at a rate of 38mL/gal of final solution

i'm confused, should it be 45g/l or 15g/gal? i went by Agsil's 7.8% with 74 grams for 500ml.

 

[Stoneyluv]

and am i supposed to wait a day somewhere in there? that's what actually prompted Grump to ask fo rme.

 

[GrumpAzz]

i forgot to say, if you want a bracket printed out to mount that so you don't use duct tape i'd be happy to make you one.

Well I've given the realtor the earnest money to move forward on that country house. Working on the down payment now but we're real close. I can deal with the duct tape until then. Hopefully close on it mid-October.

 

[moe.red]

i'm confused, should it be 45g/l or 15g/gal? i went by Agsil's 7.8% with 74 grams for 500ml.

Yeah, that is confusing as shit now that I read it back.

This article is a few years old, but I don't think the formulation has changed. His recommendation for Agsil specifically in hydroponics is 15g/gal.

That's what I use. I like to get it up to that level when starting up the system then giving it a day to circulate. PH will be crazy high so that's why you do it before plants and bennies or pre-mix outside the res and add at the 1% dosage he mentions.

So for me it is

RO water - startup system.
Add 15g/gal total system volume
KOH
wait
PH Down to 5.8 slowly
You now have a buffer. Give it ample time to circulate and find PH equilibrium. Turn on bubbling to drive off any CO2 which can effect PH due to carbonic acid. You probably can skip this using rain water but people with pipes need to bubble.
Add cal mag
micros
grow and bloom nutes
add bennies

Now you have the basis for stable water chemistry, and you should only need small inputs to correct it going forward.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Well I've given the realtor the earnest money to move forward on that country house. Working on the down payment now but we're real close. I can deal with the duct tape until then. Hopefully close on it mid-October.

that made my night right there!!!! sorry you'll now have to experience gnats...but on the up side, your little girl will grow up a country girl, the very best kind!

very glad to hear it man!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

This article is a few years old, but I don't think the formulation has changed. His recommendation for Agsil specifically in hydroponics is 15g/gal.

That's what I use. I like to get it up to that level when starting up the system then giving it a day to circulate. PH will be crazy high so that's why you do it before plants and bennies or pre-mix outside the res and add at the 1% dosage he mentions.

glad that wasn't just me... why do they gotta mix the imperial with metric all the time.. i see teaspoons per liter on GH stuff.. i mean really?? just try to confuse us!!

RO water - startup system.
Add 15g/gal total system volume
KOH
wait
PH Down to 5.8 slowly
You now have a buffer. Give it ample time to circulate and find PH equilibrium. Turn on bubbling to drive off any CO2 which can effect PH due to carbonic acid. You probably can skip this using rain water but people with pipes need to bubble.
Add cal mag
micros
grow and bloom nutes
add bennies

sweet thanks so much Moe!!!

I can do all this in a mixing barrel first, correct? then pump into my system?

and i have my air manifold right there so always have a stone in there anyway.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Add 15g/gal total system volume

wait so a $25 bag only gets me one change out? damn, thats some expensive stuff!!

453 grams/$25

15g/gallon total 25 * 15 = 375 grams

 

[SSgrower]

Here's today's result.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Here's today's result.View attachment 71002

are you gonna re-veg that one?

 

[Stoneyluv]

I'm doing a small one gallon sample test with the Agsil 16H (didn't mean to be calling it 15 all this time... ya know 15 - 16 whatever it takes!(mr mom joke))

so about 25 hours ago i took one gallon of rain water (ppm-10 pH-7.5) i then added 2ml of Agsil16H at the websites recommended 780:1 ratio by adding 1/2 the water then the 7.8% solution, then the rest of the water also as per mfg website. this brought the ppms up to 38 and ph up to 9.5
i then immediately lowered the ph to 6.5 using .75ml of ph acid. this brought the ppms to 43... i left this sit for 24 hours with an air stone.

tonight i checked and it was pH 6.7 ( i was happy) so i added 1ml of ph up as my KOH this made the pH 7.6 i then added another .75ml of acid to bring it down to 6.1 and a ppm of now 70.... i let this rest for 20 minutes.

i then added all the nutrients in this order:
2.5ml nova grow
1ml flourolicious
.5ml orca
.5ml king crab
.5ml cal/mag

these are all the same ratios that i have been using all along for nutrients. except for the nova grow i went a little lighter because i'm on the hot side so i went .7ml/gal less than last time.

the pH was 6.1 so .25ml of acid brought it down to 5.4 and a ppm of 414. my goal was 400ppm so i call that a success!!!

i stuck in an air stone and put a lid on the bucket. i will watch it over the next couple days and see how it does. i have a good feeling though and am feeling confident this could be my new recipe!!!!

it probably cost me less than a dollar to run this test but the results could be worth a lot more if it works!!

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i'm finding that hydro seems to be like baking a cake, you have to get all the ingredients measured correct to start with then mix it properly then bake away to deliciousness. whereas soil growing is more like cooking, you throw everything in one pot and keep adding stuff along the way till it tastes good. thats my analogy of it so far anyway!

 

[GrumpAzz]

i then added all the nutrients in this order:
2.5ml nova grow
1ml flourolicious
.5ml orca
.5ml king crab
.5ml cal/mag

I'm almost positive GH recommends CalMag to be added before your nutes. Silica first, as always, then CalMag.

I think it has something to do with how calcium readily bonds to other nutrients so, if it's added after nutes, it'll bond with certain molecules and precipitate out of the mix.

I followed these couple rules for GH nutes..

• Silica first
• CalMag next
• Phosphorous containing nutes after CalMag and Silica (this is why GH recommends their Micro be the first fertilizer you add after CalMag)
• Bennies last

That said.. My Lotus nutes recommended adding CalMag after the Grow but before Bloom and Boost.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I'm almost positive GH recommends CalMag to be added before your nutes. Silica first, as always, then CalMag.

i'm using Humbolts calmag plus and was adding it last because we didn't know if it had any sulphates in it. i need to research that then i think it might not matter as much.

it was a "just in case" kind of thing. and i kinda followed suit and kept doing it that way.

I think it has something to do with how calcium readily bonds to other nutrients so, if it's added after nutes, it'll bond with certain molecules and precipitate out of the mix.

i'm definitely gonna look into it and try to do some research on it if i can find any info about it.

 

[smoke]

i stuck in an air stone and put a lid on the bucket. i will watch it over the next couple days and see how it does. i have a good feeling though and am feeling confident this could be my new recipe!!!!

I found that adding more air to a stable mixture caused the ph to fall. Interested in your findings.

Yes add calmag before nutes

 

[moe.red]

wait so a $25 bag only gets me one change out? damn, thats some expensive stuff!!

453 grams/$25

15g/gallon total 25 * 15 = 375 grams

I must have done something wrong that’s not right. What is your total volume?

Where did you buy your agsil?

I like the baking analogy. Car racing is another good one. Engineering out the road blocks to higher performance. Like jumping from carb to fuel injection.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I found that adding more air to a stable mixture caused the ph to fall. Interested in your findings.

Yes add calmag before nutes

so far my test has been pretty stable, i'll like to try again though and mix the calmag first before the nutes like you guys do. i'm not in need of a change out so i have the time to try stuff without risking the plants.

but it hasn't been stable enough to go backwards even with a large stone in there. the next day after the mix the ph went back up so i dropped it again, this was saturday night i believe. i didn't mess with it at all yesterday and just now around 10pm monday night it was at 5.6!!!! that's been my slowest drift yet!! it almost wants to make me take the air out and see if it drifts faster at all.

I must have done something wrong that’s not right. What is your total volume?

Where did you buy your agsil?

I like the baking analogy. Car racing is another good one. Engineering out the road blocks to higher performance. Like jumping from carb to fuel injection.

i thought that seemed like a lot, i had a hard time to liquify the ratio i mixed it hard enough shaking for like twenty minutes, even had to jam a chopstick in there to mix it!! and that was only 74 grams!!!

i bought mine from KIS --> https://www.kisorganics.com/products/agsil-16-h-potassium-silicate

my total volume is 25 gallons, i'm already started up so i'll probably only do a 50% change out going forward like a variation of a estimated index or EI method.

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good news, bad news...

starting week three now already!! plants look good, everything is growing.. sadly today i had to toss out the mother plant of the permanent marker i got from that festival a few weeks back..

dun dun dun...



little fuckers were everywhere!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



they came out of nowhere to... they just knew i was away yesterday and planned their strike when i wasn't around!!! i seem to get mites every few years and never know how i get them... i'm "usually" pretty good at getting rid of them so we'll see how i do right here..

i nuked the cabinet and surrounding areas outside the doors and vents. then i sprayed the underside of the leaves with cold pressed orange oil/water mix

they're not very photogenic after their oil bath...





i find it weird how one hydro plant has a lot of spread roots and the other comes from one... we have no idea what the soil roots have!!



week three so light s got turned up another notch...

 

[smoke]

I hate those little buggers

 

[Stoneyluv]

I hate those little buggers

i hear ya my man!! enough to make me itch just seeing them!! so far i haven't seen a hint of any more yet. i went a little heavy with the orange oil and burned them a bit.. it's all gonna be leaves that won't count later but might slow em down a bit for now. i probably didn't even need to spray them but i didn't want to gamble. turns out i busted on the leaves anyway.

but on the nutrient solution side things are really doing well. been 48 hours now and still doesn't need any lowering and this is the same solution i've been using for over a week now.

the test bucket of nutrients is also doing great and this will be my recipe for the most part. one thing i want to change is i bought some quality potassium hydroxide to mix up instead of using all my pH up for the KOH.
so i want to test the one gallon bucket again this weekend also adding the cal mag before grow nutes like you guys do. if this new KOH works with the agsil16 just as good i will move forward with a rez change. but for now that test ph has only drifted 0.2 in four days now.

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sorry guys i torched em with orange oil concentrated a little to hot... i might put them all on the foop mist diet to get things perky again.