Observer
Quantum Yield Engineer
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Stoney's Soil vs Hydro Apple Fritter Auto show
- Thread starter Stoneyluv
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it's drifting pretty much about .5-.7 in twelve hours. well until today anyway... today has actually been the best it's ever been. i don't want to jinx it but it's been holding steady for about 14 hours now.
i added silica but may not have been mixed properly so maybe it tool a little more time to settle down i'm not sure. i've been writing everything down and keeping notes so hopefully i learn something from it.
tomorrow will be their first week finished and they look fine so i'm not going to change much up yet. the water has been drifting fast but still easy to bring back down and that really has been the only maintenance whatsoever.
Aqua Man has been a great mentor in steering me with the nutrient solution and even though i'm having a slight issue it has been very easy so far.
i picked up a bottle of this to add in for week two...
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If you want to get on the phone this weekend I finally have a little respite. Might be easier to talk it thru.so a little food for thought.. AM says "the ph may rise due to the off gassing of carbonic acid released as co2. So after a day or 2 depending on aeration this may slow down as gasses reach equilibrium.
You can aerate the water before use for 12+ hrs it will remove that from the equation but as long as you are aware of that then no big deal may just need a few more adjustments the first couple days."
remember i wasted all my aerated water in my barrel from leak testing so when i filled my system it was directly from my un-aerated rain tote outside.
so that all kind if makes sense.
.
i'm still having drift issues though, gotta be the way i mixed the stuff or something. i cleaned out a barrel that i can mix everything in before adding it to the system like you do. i'm going to mix up a fresh batch and do a change out. i need to rule out something whatever the issue is.
if nothing else it will make for good practice. a couple bucks to learn but no schooling is free!
i'm sure he has typed out some of the same things he told you along with a hundred other people but still does it without asking and has the passion to see it work properly. he's been around a long time!!!
with those reviews i just wasn't sure at all... you understand what i'm looking for.
now your talking!! this is what i was trying to find, something that was comparable to a bluelab monitor.
you are the fuckin man Moe!!!!! this is exactly what i want and didn't even know it!!!!!!!!! hell yeah this is what i need.
they give ya the parts lists, the codes, the instructions, the hardware lists, drawings... damn!!!!!!!!! this is perfect Moe, my next project for sure!!
so if i don't include the dissolved oxygen or ORP sensor i could make something that will monitor my ph, ec, and water temp with just this stuff for $184?
View attachment 70060
only thing is i don't see any type of mention of a display or a way to see it live, just that data is stored on sd card.
also seems like there has not been any activity on it since it came out 6 years ago... they even have plug n play kits but the feedback doesn't look the best:
Gravity: KnowFlow Basic Kit - A DIY Water Monitoring Basic Kit
KnowFlow is designed for environmentalists who want to monitor water quality and get real time data.www.dfrobot.com
I like the I2C stuff because it is all on a bus - each device has an address. You query the address on a sensor, and get back a digital reading. So instead of an analog voltage that you need to interpret - like PH = 2.67V ::: Calculations ::: PH = 6, you get [Address read ... serial return PH = 6]
On things like peristaltic pumps, your command is [Address send 27] where 27 is the amount of steps you want the pump to take.
With that, you can easily make a PH dosing system for example. Or nute dosing.
All of this stuff is add on for future. Start with getting PH, Temp, EC, and build from there.
On the display side, you have a couple of options. For an Arduino / ESP32, video driving is not really in the cards without additional hardware. So you will be limited to either an LCD display like on your CLW stuff, an add on video driver board, or sending the info to a network PC, tablet, etc or something like MQTT (Adafruit has a free MQTT server) for displaying on the web and customizing the display / output.
If you want to do a small touchscreen like this
Raspberry Pi is the way to go. They have full video support and 2 HDMI outputs.
I've got all these different options running in my basement, I can walk you thru the + and - of each and you can decide.
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@frowny229 swears by this shit
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that would be awesome Moe... let me know me know man, i'll send you my cell # and just text me. it would be cool if we could spend a couple minutes talking about the stoneybox as well!!!
oh that does sound much easier to decipher than the esp32 way. i'm on it Moe, i'm gonna gonna order some parts.
On the display side, you have a couple of options. For an Arduino / ESP32, video driving is not really in the cards without additional hardware. So you will be limited to either an LCD display like on your CLW stuff, an add on video driver board, or sending the info to a network PC, tablet, etc or something like MQTT (Adafruit has a free MQTT server) for displaying on the web and customizing the display / output.
If you want to do a small touchscreen like this
Amazon.com
Raspberry Pi is the way to go. They have full video support and 2 HDMI outputs.
I've got all these different options running in my basement, I can walk you thru the + and - of each and you can decide.
okay, so this falls right into the same situation kind of with our other project that you explained to me about. depends on needs and wants.. i kind of like option B with the touch screen and Pi.. we can talk about it a little then i'll make a choice from there.
thanks again Moe!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
i actually grabbed a pint of that and a quart of the kleen for my flush!!! ya know before this hydro the only flush i knew was in poker!!!
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W
If you don't know how to flush the damn toilet i ain't coming by!!
Well there goes coming to see you!!!ya know before this hydro the only flush i knew was in poker!!!
If you don't know how to flush the damn toilet i ain't coming by!!
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This is too cool to watch you build a system.
Both the StoneyBox and controls for the Hydro.
I am more of an owner than builder in tech regards.
When I was thinking real hard on hydro I purchased the HM 500.
Psyched to see what you build.
Both the StoneyBox and controls for the Hydro.
I am more of an owner than builder in tech regards.
When I was thinking real hard on hydro I purchased the HM 500.
Psyched to see what you build.
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W
Well there goes coming to see you!!!
If you don't know how to flush the damn toilet i ain't coming by!!
i pee outside!!
Thanks man it's been so much fun to make, more fun than using it. although this Ph thing has be so busy with it. i can't get my water buffered correctly and my ph is rising. well maybe not now.. i was getting some readings back and forth and it's gotta be this pen, i feel i'm doing everything correct and still getting sporadic readings. i think a live monitor could eliminate this. i can't just spend $400 on a meter though.. plus you know me, i'm a built versus bought kind of guy to start with.
don't tell the plants i'm having ph issues though, they wouldn't believe you anyway. gonna be the first day of the second week already tomorrow!!! gonna bump up the nutes a little and also give the soil plants some great white/green aminos and just a sniff of neptunes!!!
funny this is the gallon challenge plant is kicking all their butts so far!!! and that was the smallest seedling!!!
but can easily see me grow forward with both hydro and soil.. kinda fun man! especially if the end results are a little different from each other. if they're identical idk what i would choose yet.
thats what i really want out of this though is for both styles to be great and hope they both turn out very similar, not identical but similar that would be the win win for me!!! but if the hydro does outgrow the soil crazy like other say it does than it will be kinda tough for me to get dirty again. just being truthful..
it's why i don't want to skimp or cheese out with either one in any way. i want this to be a fair race!
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Thankfully, seedlings can handle a decent range of pH and might actually benefit from some fluctuating. Keeping the pH stable is more difficult the less nutes in the system. As you bump up the ppm, it'll be a bit more stable. You'll likely see an intial rise or fall as it settles, then more stability.
You said it above, though. My wife wanted me to save the extra plants I had on deck and just grow them out in some soil. I said nah. I don't want the bug risk. I fuckin' hate the drain flies we already deal with, so fruit flies in my grow space is out of the question.
I'd say, if the results are identical, stick to what you know and already have the stuff for. If Hydro doesn't noticeably improve your game, I don't know that it'd be worth the expense of going all out on it. Hydro does come with a steeper start-up cost and learning curve. You've seen that already.
You said it above, though. My wife wanted me to save the extra plants I had on deck and just grow them out in some soil. I said nah. I don't want the bug risk. I fuckin' hate the drain flies we already deal with, so fruit flies in my grow space is out of the question.
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Me too.
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it's the only reason i'm sticking with it and keep lowering it twice a day. Observer said they need that full range to absorb everything they need and want so i figured this couldn't be bad, just didn't know if too fast of a change was bad. plants seem to not care!! and that's what really has me not panicking about it, the plants are fine!
oh this is great to know, maybe this is only in the beginning for me. today marks the start of the second week so ppm's are going to go up. i've added more Si to my mixing barrel and it seems to keep the ph better. i'll be adding the nutes later tonight and if all looks good i will do a rez change out for the first time!! i think they're ready for some more food. i've been secretly giving them all a foliar feed for the past four days now and they are responding very well to it so i feel it's time for some extra food. both hydro and soil will get fed extra already!!!! my light just got bumped up to 40%.. i really don't have any fear about too much light after watching your current round. my one 550 can't even get close to your light and you're at max power before flower.
they're so annoying man... and the fuckers bite!!! they get up in your hair and bite at your scalp... i try to treat them but i get slacked and then they come back even more... it gets to the point where enough is enough and i just nuke them all at once. it's one benefit from keeping and reusing old soil and adding amendments yourself and making your own soil, once you bring in brand new soil you always take the chance of bringing something in. i reused the same soil for like ten years, i know i know people say never do that.. i did it t the extreme but there is nothing wrong at all with using soil 2-4x over. nobody that grows in soil goes all the way through a grow without adding nutes to it so what's the difference when you add it!
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Yeah man don't panick. I still don't have a full grasp on the chemistry of it all. I don't have to understand if it works
The beauty of hydro is they'll let you know pretty quickly if something is off and to fix it is usually as easy as a full res change. And they'll respond to your changes quicker than soil so you won't be wasting as much time chasing deficiencies. Following manufacturer feedcharts should keep those at bay for the most part.
I'm surprised. My last light never got up to 100%. These guys seem to be loving it. The growth is off the charts. I'm a little anxious for the stretch.
Right now I have the light hung as high as possible. That might be why I'm able to crank out the photons. Or they're just some boss genetics. I've been pushing them pretty hard with the nutes to keep up and they just keep taking it. Maybe 3 or 4 leaves have a tiny bit of tip burn but that's it.
Yeah.. nope. Count me out. Hydro Forever FTW !!!
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Yeah man don't panick. I still don't have a full grasp on the chemistry of it all. I don't have to understand if it works
The beauty of hydro is they'll let you know pretty quickly if something is off and to fix it is usually as easy as a full res change. And they'll respond to your changes quicker than soil so you won't be wasting as much time chasing deficiencies. Following manufacturer feedcharts should keep those at bay for the most part.
not panicking but thinking the Armor Si is not the stuff for me. i'm still having a tough time with buffering. did a rez change late last night and today it back out of control already in less than 24 hours. we're trying my ph up as a buffer this time and did another rez change just now.
i ordered the vagisil 15 tonight... (i know it's not vagisil, im tired! haha)
i'm at 15-20-40 right now, still riding the heavy blue!!
ahhh ya know though if you move out to the country you'll find out... hehe
I'm just gonna leave this here for now, Nerds
The water spins like a toilet flushing
man i tried so hard to make my buckets spin with the elbows on my waterfalls.. even had a soundtrack picked out for the post but never could get them to spin. i need to copy the design of helix tea brewer, that would be cool!!! twist those roots like a tornado!!!
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.
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speaking of ruutz.. we got more than one!!!!!!!
ended week one with no problems!! having a slight issue with ph buffering but nothing that can't be fixed.. i think the plants enjoy the swings!!
changed the rez and solution to 600ppm i mixed up 25 gallons but my system leaves a gallon inside so this was good so i don't lose my micro heard but it's way easier measuring out for 25 gallons than 24... so the extra got fed to the soil plants in there!!! how much more fair can that be.. the same nutes same ppm!!! hydro vs soil... i feel like the rocky theme should be inserted!!
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Zen_seeker
Kush Kingpin
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Don’t make it look too easy now.not panicking but thinking the Armor Si is not the stuff for me. i'm still having a tough time with buffering. did a rez change late last night and today it back out of control already in less than 24 hours. we're trying my ph up as a buffer this time and did another rez change just now.
i ordered the vagisil 15 tonight... (i know it's not vagisil, im tired! haha)
i'm at 15-20-40 right now, still riding the heavy blue!!
ahhh ya know though if you move out to the country you'll find out... hehe
man i tried so hard to make my buckets spin with the elbows on my waterfalls.. even had a soundtrack picked out for the post but never could get them to spin. i need to copy the design of helix tea brewer, that would be cool!!! twist those roots like a tornado!!!
.
.
.
speaking of ruutz.. we got more than one!!!!!!!
View attachment 70454
ended week one with no problems!! having a slight issue with ph buffering but nothing that can't be fixed.. i think the plants enjoy the swings!!
changed the rez and solution to 600ppm i mixed up 25 gallons but my system leaves a gallon inside so this was good so i don't lose my micro heard but it's way easier measuring out for 25 gallons than 24... so the extra got fed to the soil plants in there!!! how much more fair can that be.. the same nutes same ppm!!! hydro vs soil... i feel like the rocky theme should be inserted!!
View attachment 70456View attachment 70457
View attachment 70458View attachment 70459
View attachment 70455
Doing great man. Can’t wait to see how things turn out.
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Those are looking a little dark. What all you got in the water?speaking of ruutz.. we got more than one!!!!!!!
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Agree bit looks like diatoms not rot… likely from the silica. Diotoms love it.
Probably come right off with a quick rinse
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Ahh gotcha. I only used the Armor Si for one res change before you guys sold me on some Agsil.
My roots would turn a bit dark but I blamed the Micro and the Fulvic. No way he's got that much of those in there yet.
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GH Floranova has a humic acid in it derived from leonardite which makes it so sludgy and it stains everything. Before too long even the underside of the ducky will be stained brown
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Im betting that stuff comes right off with a rinse or even just clean hands and light brush. I am pretty certain its diatoms. Very common issue with silicon dioxide and harmless but should be rinsed off.
This usually goes away after a system has had a few weeks to settle in.
Running sterile or live will help reduce them bit nothing to panic over
This usually goes away after a system has had a few weeks to settle in.
Running sterile or live will help reduce them bit nothing to panic over
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Don’t make it look too easy now.
Doing great man. Can’t wait to see how things turn out.
gotta say man, it's not very hard when ya got people in your corner helping you out!!
the finish of it will be my real test!!!
floranova and floralicious!!! good stuff man!!!! stuff is darker and thicker than organics!!!!
Ducky sure is stained already. even his head keeps getting it just from the lid... crazy thing is when you spill some on the cement floor it dries white not brown!!!
yea i looked at the silica i have for soil and i couldn't use that either. comes from silica dioxide and i want potassium.
it does come right off. it looks way worse in the photo than real life. it's looks thick and sludgy in the photo but it's not it's thin and comes off just touching the root and not even brushing it off. doesn't seem to stick to the clay or plastic buckets yet.
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Yeah it will be like snot lol..
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is that just the nova series? or does the trio do that too?
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The staining is likely both. Never used em.
The snot is a mix diatoms and bacteria. Are you running live, sterile or neither? I am assuming live or nothing.
Bacteria form from root exudes and diatoms from silicon dioxide. The food source is the result. Top feeding every few days can reduce these from the roots but not a big concern until they get all snoty than it can affect o2 uptake.
Sterile will also eliminate it
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Here's a few videos of my 'Nova run in DWC.
Roots near the stalk were very dark and lighten up to whiteish down low. Looks scary but it's just staining as everything up top was happy and lush.
I think root rot will kinda look the opposite with white near the stalk and dark and nasty down low and have a foul odor. Roots kinda have that earthy smell and it's not exactly aromatic but when they rot you can smell the foulness.
The 3D printed net pot was made with "crystal" filament and there's nothing crystal about it anymore being soaked in that stuff.
I think the white stuff you saw after it dried on the floor was salt residue. It will also build up around the waterline inside the system and can be wiped away. You'll see some of that on the outside of the container I used where solution had spilled over the side.
This was also an experiment to see how far I could push it into organics. It was 'Nova + liquid crab + liquid squid + King Crab. The bennies in the King Crab may have played a role in help cleaning up the staining for me because they were no where near as dark brown as previous trials using 'Nova. When I ran out of KC in the last video the staining returned
Roots near the stalk were very dark and lighten up to whiteish down low. Looks scary but it's just staining as everything up top was happy and lush.
I think root rot will kinda look the opposite with white near the stalk and dark and nasty down low and have a foul odor. Roots kinda have that earthy smell and it's not exactly aromatic but when they rot you can smell the foulness.
The 3D printed net pot was made with "crystal" filament and there's nothing crystal about it anymore being soaked in that stuff.
I think the white stuff you saw after it dried on the floor was salt residue. It will also build up around the waterline inside the system and can be wiped away. You'll see some of that on the outside of the container I used where solution had spilled over the side.
This was also an experiment to see how far I could push it into organics. It was 'Nova + liquid crab + liquid squid + King Crab. The bennies in the King Crab may have played a role in help cleaning up the staining for me because they were no where near as dark brown as previous trials using 'Nova. When I ran out of KC in the last video the staining returned
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yes sir, i am live. using orca and king crab
good to know. will it give the whole system a slime coat of it, or will it mainly stick to the roots? just curios if i ever decide to change nutrient brands or types or go sterile is it going to be a problem?
Here's a few videos of my 'Nova run in DWC.
Roots near the stalk were very dark and lighten up to whiteish down low. Looks scary but it's just staining as everything up top was happy and lush.
I think root rot will kinda look the opposite with white near the stalk and dark and nasty down low and have a foul odor. Roots kinda have that earthy smell and it's not exactly aromatic but when they rot you can smell the foulness.
The 3D printed net pot was made with "crystal" filament and there's nothing crystal about it anymore being soaked in that stuff.
I think the white stuff you saw after it dried on the floor was salt residue. It will also build up around the waterline inside the system and can be wiped away. You'll see some of that on the outside of the container I used where solution had spilled over the side.
This was also an experiment to see how far I could push it into organics. It was 'Nova + liquid crab + liquid squid + King Crab. The bennies in the King Crab may have played a role in help cleaning up the staining for me because they were no where near as dark brown as previous trials using 'Nova. When I ran out of KC in the last video the staining returned
yea i used the king crab too... the flouralicious is even darker than all of them combined!!! at just 600ppms it's darker than iced tea now!!!!!
my clear air tubes are all stained already in just one week... and yeah ducky will need weekly showers if i leave him in there!!!
Zen_seeker
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