Stoney's Soil vs Hydro Apple Fritter Auto show

[Stoneyluv]

looks like it might be a one horse race, not sure what will happen here just yet. sadly i still have spider mites and i am doing everything i can to not have to toss the plant just yet. i checked a couple dozen leaf samples while i was doing a defol and i didn't see any alive at all, saw four or five dead ones and a bunch of eggs. i think i underestimated them this time as i'm usually pretty proficient of getting rid of them in the past. i think i left my guard down too much and they came back before i even noticed them.

so here we are a couple weeks into flowering. i mixed up a bigger top off batch last night, they sucked through that four gallons last week. i made a twelve gallon batch this time. roots are getting so heavy i can barely lift them out with one hand!!!

 

[steamroller]

Man I hate spider mites.
I never found them easy to kill once my plants were in flower.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Man I hate spider mites.
I never found them easy to kill once my plants were in flower.

the ONLY thing that made me feel good was seeing the dead ones!! i pulled the rest of the plants out and and put them outside. i clearly failed with those plants anyway so no reason growing them out for a doobie worth. i left the gallon challenge plant in there.

i haven't sprayed anything on the plant itself, i bought this stuff but have not sprayed any on the plants at all, just the parameters and walls.

hey did you happen to see first shift of OP live last night? the dude in Arkansas with the scratchy voice had a daddy long legs on his back and they said they're actually of the mite family. it made me wonder like hell if they would kill spider mites?? i've seen daddy long legs suck the juice out of stink bugs before so i know they're meat eaters!!!

i'm sure if there was anything to it people would already be doing it.. still temping though.
a quick google search says it's possible, i just need to get them hungry enough and make them mean!!!!

 

[steamroller]

Lady bugs are what you want I believe.
Big difference between flowers and shrubs and vegetables or eatable fruit.
I would read that spray label well.
Part of my failure in beating them is not being willing to use many sprays and dead set against the soaps.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Lady bugs are what you want I believe.
Big difference between flowers and shrubs and vegetables or eatable fruit.
I would read that spray label well.
Part of my failure in beating them is not being willing to use many sprays and dead set against the soaps.

i think you're right lady bugs are tougher... i'm thinking of ordering some Phytoseiulus Persimilis, these are the mean bunch!! i think under $50 could solve it. might be worth it just to test.

i'm most likely gonna pick one of these...

Predator Mites

Here you will find access to the collection of predator mites we offer. They currently include: Neoseiulus Californiuc, Neoseiulus Fallacis, Galendromus Occidentalis and Phytoseiulus Persimilis

mibeneficials.com

and some of their gnat killers too!!!!

 

[Max]

They are awesome stoney..and fast movers.I’ve had them in my back yard for decades..never one bad mite living too long here.

 

[Bandit420]

mixed up some top off nutes last week and gave them half over the weekend. i only mixed up four gallons. and it was only at 250ppm, if they only want salad then thats all they get!

i should have named this thread hydro vs hydro... i assume i made a bad choice in genetics and this is not some severe design flaw in my system?

View attachment 74718View attachment 74721
View attachment 74720View attachment 74719

i added higher pedestals to the soil plants.. View attachment 74722

View attachment 74717View attachment 74716

i bet i could two plant SCROG that whole cabinet off...

Still a cool grow and lots to learn from it!
I think if anything you're getting a good crash course in how and why auto opinions vary so widely. If you had only the soil you might think they suck and if only hydro they'd be outstanding.
Fun fact about that meter: It came from Ukranium military surplus before the war. Yeah the Ukranians sell war surplus on ebay. Who knew?!
IDK how accurate it is but I liked taking it out in the Sun then measuring what my lights were doing compared to that.
If the 550 is on point, ideally you want to bump it up to around 7-900 heading into flower and have it go past it's 1100 or so limit and reset when in full flower swell.

I use pyrethrum foggers for mites but nothing after pistils show. Been looking for a predator option that can do well outside and get them at the source.
I've also taken to spraying my outer window I have boarded up with Home Defense spider and ant killer and I've also sprayed inside behind the inner board window. Cleaned floors and walls with orange oil and or bleach.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Still a cool grow and lots to learn from it!
I think if anything you're getting a good crash course in how and why auto opinions vary so widely. If you had only the soil you might think they suck and if only hydro they'd be outstanding.

i'm really curious about it man for sure. i guess i can only wonder at this point. part of me wishes i would have went with the seeds my neighbor suggested. we'll be finding out soon enough when i start the next batch!! really leaning towards those Irie seeds you gave me.

Fun fact about that meter: It came from Ukranium military surplus before the war. Yeah the Ukranians sell war surplus on ebay. Who knew?!
IDK how accurate it is but I liked taking it out in the Sun then measuring what my lights were doing compared to that.
If the 550 is on point, ideally you want to bump it up to around 7-900 heading into flower and have it go past it's 1100 or so limit and reset when in full flower swell.

for real, Ukraine surplus?!?! well shit now i don't feel bad one bit for modifying it!! the other night i cannibalized an old LUX meter to make that PAR meter have a handheld sensor... even fits the canvas case!! didn't even have to modify anything on the meter, just soldered the stretchy cable in between!!

I use pyrethrum foggers for mites but nothing after pistils show. Been looking for a predator option that can do well outside and get them at the source.
I've also taken to spraying my outer window I have boarded up with Home Defense spider and ant killer and I've also sprayed inside behind the inner board window. Cleaned floors and walls with orange oil and or bleach.

i essentially did fog them only it's not fog, i got a no pest strip chernobyl dome going on in there with no exhaust fans or any fresh air moving through. the seedlings in the black cabinet aren't getting any of it, i have all the recirc fans off as well. just one ACI oscillating the radiation.

i still have not seen any alive, today i cut out another few leaves and only saw eggs. i'll wait and see....

after i'm done with all this poison i'm going to order some predators.. i was reading up and learned they have different species depending on where you live, like they have ones that live in triple digits for you and there are ones that winter over and hibernate under 40° and repopulate again in the spring for places like i live... i was looking and i'm going to buy two or three species and let em rip!! gonna buy some of those gnat eating beetles too!

 

[Stoneyluv]

still nuking mites, haven't seen any alive in a week now but not letting my guard down this time. this weekend i'll do a good inspection and see what up, plants are now wall to wall, corner to corner..

ppm is around 440 on a 500 scale.

 

[Stoneyluv]

the bug poison isn't fully working and i still find a living crawling two spotter every few days. the poison isn't killing them and now it's just affecting the plants. i ordered some predator mites in a last ditch effort. i've never used them before so i will find out.

it's time to mix up more top off solution. still hovering just under 500ppm.

 

[Stoneyluv]

i introduced predator mites to my plants today. i bought them from natures good guys through amazon. it cost me $45 for 2000 little critters.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MHWD65T?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

they were sent overnight shipping in freezer packs. they arrived alive and kicking. they're tough to see, smaller than the two spotters for sure. the red oes were pretty easy to see and those suckers are fast!!!! came in the convenient shaker bottle and the bottom was just carboard that you can rip out and stick the container right over the buds because there were quite a lot of hunters still in the plastic jar hours after i opened it. get every drop worth kinda deal!!

been about ten hours now and i see them hunting for sure... surprised to see just how far some of them spread on the plant so far.

if they work i am going serious consider buying these sachets for each grow as a prevention...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PTK7M2T/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A1WMQPAGZ5642Q&psc=1

they recommend 2-10 predators per square foot. i got enough to fill both cabinets at around 60 per ft² for overkill.

i'll report more on this war over the weekend!!!

i have high hopes..

.

and i'm not sure if it's the cultivar or the hydro but these plants are stinking in all the right ways!!!!!!

 

[OLDCRO]

I use

Stratiolaelaps Scimitus mites every grow touch wood ive never seen a bug.​

 

[Stoneyluv]

I use

Stratiolaelaps Scimitus mites every grow touch wood ive never seen a bug.​

i never heard of that one, i bought these four: A.cucumeris, N. californicus, P. persimilis. and A. swirskii

you say every grow, do they reproduce and continue on?
i can only find where they seem to last tier lifetime. just wondering if they continue on and hang out till harvest?

 

[OLDCRO]

i never heard of that one, i bought these four: A.cucumeris, N. californicus, P. persimilis. and A. swirskii

you say every grow, do they reproduce and continue on?
i can only find where they seem to last tier lifetime. just wondering if they continue on and hang out till harvest?

I never re use any growing material i use promix so when grow harvested bags are dumped out to garden. So every new grow i reapply for prevention. If they are well fed they will reproduce they can go weeks without food.

 

[OLDCRO]

i never heard of that one, i bought these four: A.cucumeris, N. californicus, P. persimilis. and A. swirskii

you say every grow, do they reproduce and continue on?
i can only find where they seem to last tier lifetime. just wondering if they continue on and hang out till harvest?

You should not use bug killing sprays and such as they will kill off your predator mites.

 

[OLDCRO]

 

[OLDCRO]

 

[Stoneyluv]

I never re use any growing material i use promix so when grow harvested bags are dumped out to garden. So every new grow i reapply for prevention. If they are well fed they will reproduce they can go weeks without food.

thanks for that info man, those sound like just the ones i need!! for two spotters and gnats, hell yea!! i did a very quick search and didn't see them at the places i get from before but i'll find some.

they're huge too!!!

You should not use bug killing sprays and such as they will kill off your predator mites.

yea i agree with that. i didn't have any clue i was going to try predators back when i sprayed.. i've tried to clean and exhaust the best i could the days leading up to the delivery. i was aware i was taking a big risk. this was mainly so i wouldn't get infested with them on my new batch of plants in the adjoining room, i didn't use any pesticides at all on those plants. just these two hydros and the gallon challenge in this room has the poison.

View attachment 76945

am i sadistic for loving this photo? i need to find a source for those monsters here in the US. i'm gonna search this weekend when i have more time.

 

[OLDCRO]

thanks for that info man, those sound like just the ones i need!! for two spotters and gnats, hell yea!! i did a very quick search and didn't see them at the places i get from before but i'll find some.

they're huge too!!!



yea i agree with that. i didn't have any clue i was going to try predators back when i sprayed.. i've tried to clean and exhaust the best i could the days leading up to the delivery. i was aware i was taking a big risk. this was mainly so i wouldn't get infested with them on my new batch of plants in the adjoining room, i didn't use any pesticides at all on those plants. just these two hydros and the gallon challenge in this room has the poison.



am i sadistic for loving this photo? i need to find a source for those monsters here in the US. i'm gonna search this weekend when i have more time.

They go by two names Stratiolaelaps Scimitus/Hypoaspis Miles

 

[OLDCRO]

thanks for that info man, those sound like just the ones i need!! for two spotters and gnats, hell yea!! i did a very quick search and didn't see them at the places i get from before but i'll find some.

they're huge too!!!



yea i agree with that. i didn't have any clue i was going to try predators back when i sprayed.. i've tried to clean and exhaust the best i could the days leading up to the delivery. i was aware i was taking a big risk. this was mainly so i wouldn't get infested with them on my new batch of plants in the adjoining room, i didn't use any pesticides at all on those plants. just these two hydros and the gallon challenge in this room has the poison.



am i sadistic for loving this photo? i need to find a source for those monsters here in the US. i'm gonna search this weekend when i have more time.

These guys are in Arizona as your in the US i presume

• Phone: 520-298-4400
• info@buglogical.com

 

[Stoneyluv]

Hypoaspis Miles

oh sweet , thanks man!! that explains why those popped up when i searched the Stratiolaelaps Scimitus. i can/will get them for sure.

 

[Stoneyluv]

ten weeks from seeds officially in the books.. i'm creeping up on topping off my rez volume in amounts. i know rules say to change out but i don't think i'll benefit from doing that in my situation because i'm kinda close to flush. wtf is a frush? (revenge of the nerds joke) i'm going to only topoff with florabloom and water with nothing else added from here on out and then a week away i'll fully drain and fill with florakleen. i really want to see how much root displacement i have!!!! kinda making bets with myself on if it's over/under five gallons.. i think over!!

not good but could be worse so i'll take it!! the left plant is further along than the right.







i can't wait to grow without pesticides!!!!! my nutes and solution strength didn't burn the leaves like that, the bug bomb did... don't think i'll be smoking any of this round but it was an awesome learning experience and i can't ait to have another shot at it!

i'll be harvesting in like three weeks then i'l do a cleaning and start the next round right away!!

 

[Zen_seeker]

I love that song

Remember him driving the rig in the movie.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Lady bugs are what you want I believe.
Big difference between flowers and shrubs and vegetables or eatable fruit.
I would read that spray label well.
Part of my failure in beating them is not being willing to use many sprays and dead set against the soaps.

What’s wrong with the soaps like Safer’s?

 

[Zen_seeker]

for real, Ukraine surplus?!?! well shit now i don't feel bad one bit for modifying it!! the other night i cannibalized an old LUX meter to make that PAR meter have a handheld sensor... even fits the canvas case!! didn't even have to modify anything on the meter, just soldered the stretchy cable in between!!

View attachment 75304

You happen to have this LUX meter? I’ve been thinking about visiting the film studio a few blocks away and seeing if someone could tell me what a few readings are in PAR and how accurate mine is.

Not terribly important just a nice to know.

 

[Observer]

ten weeks from seeds officially in the books.. i'm creeping up on topping off my rez volume in amounts. i know rules say to change out but i don't think i'll benefit from doing that in my situation because i'm kinda close to flush. wtf is a frush? (revenge of the nerds joke) i'm going to only topoff with florabloom and water with nothing else added from here on out and then a week away i'll fully drain and fill with florakleen. i really want to see how much root displacement i have!!!! kinda making bets with myself on if it's over/under five gallons.. i think over!!

not good but could be worse so i'll take it!! the left plant is further along than the right.



View attachment 77235

View attachment 77236View attachment 77237

Did these reveg? / or get fucked by a lighting mishap? Some nitrogen toxicity too

nice side by side grow though.

Not trying to be an ass or anything just genuine

 

[Observer]

Glad u did this, so, going hydro now? Lol

It truly just doesn't compare to soil, it's just so much more efficient for the plant, just the way/how it works and the way soil works.

Can come somewhat close with a proper rockwool run and somewhere in the vicinity with a proper coco/inert media run.

 

[Observer]

You happen to have this LUX meter? I’ve been thinking about visiting the film studio a few blocks away and seeing if someone could tell me what a few readings are in PAR and how accurate mine is.

Not terribly important just a nice to know.
View attachment 77246

Nice to have

I'd love to get a quantum e-par sensor from apogee.

 

[steamroller]

What’s wrong with the soaps like Safer’s?

Past memories of the taste of soap.
Not sure there is much worse.
I just can't bring myself to use it.
I would probably sacrifice/ cull a complete grow if I had to before spraying safer or any soap.
Just me?

 

[Stoneyluv]

You happen to have this LUX meter? I’ve been thinking about visiting the film studio a few blocks away and seeing if someone could tell me what a few readings are in PAR and how accurate mine is.

Not terribly important just a nice to know.
View attachment 77246

it wasn't that fancy.. but same brand. i trashed the body when i was done but it looked like this..

Did these reveg? / or get fucked by a lighting mishap? Some nitrogen toxicity too

nice side by side grow though.

Not trying to be an ass or anything just genuine

great to see ya around again more O!!

been 18/6 the whole time, no goofs or anything. these are autos... i'm just blaming the genetics at this point with nothing else to compare to yet.
i don't think those leaf tip burns are from nutrients. i barely got above 500 ppm, i think it's from the two weeks of no pest strip and no fresh air and then i still had mites and set off a bug bomb in that little cabinet and sealed it up for a few day after. this is when the leaves started looking like that and just assumed that's what it from. i've burned plants in the past using them but in the past they worked and killed the mites. after this infestation i've learned my lesson and will never again use a pesticide on plants. predators from here on out!!

can't wait to redeem myself with this.

and no worries man i got thick skin, i'm not posting my updates to show off, i'm just showing the truth and that i haven't given up. i will always post updates good or bad, just showin the facts and mostly what not to do!!

Glad u did this, so, going hydro now? Lol

It truly just doesn't compare to soil, it's just so much more efficient for the plant, just the way/how it works and the way soil works.

Can come somewhat close with a proper rockwool run and somewhere in the vicinity with a proper coco/inert media run.

i'll keep the RDWC in place for sure and can even see myself upgrading some day. but i also haven't quit on soil either... i kinda like both for right now. the hydro had a bit more of learning curve in the beginning but once i had a few Aqua clinics it ended up being less maintenance and easier than soil. since week three it's been on cruise control and i haven't had to adjust the pH at all. i have enough nutrients for another few rounds so i'll be a part time hydro guy for at least 2025!!

I'm not all soil, not all hydro... i'm just a muddy mess!!!!

Past memories of the taste of soap.

i have just only one memory of this as a young child... and i will NEVER forget it!!!!!!

my buddy was threating his oldest for teaching his youngest a bad word.. he said do it again and i'm getting out the soap, and then follows it up with and not the new clean soap, the hairy soap from my shower!!!! problem was solved with one threat!!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

like most things good or bad must end at some point and so must this journal.

wasn't anything like i wanted it to turn out but i did get to learn a lot and it was great to get my first time hydro jitters out of the way.

i flushed for a few days and then cut some of the tops off and washed them in a peroxide bath and hung to dry. i didn't get much at all i wasn't going to keep anything at all but it smelled very good and was greasy as can be so it was against me to toss it all out.






i cleaned everything... i covered the buckets, removed the light, covered the fan and vents and set off a bug bomb!



left it muster in there for a day and half and then aired it out good and scrubbed it all down with bleach water.. wow was that water disgusting!!!!!!!! and i shampoo auto carpets on the regular!!! glad i wore gloves!!!!!

so it's drained, cleaned and refilled and ready for the next attempt!!!!



Thanks for joining along everybody and all the great advice!!!!!!! i am excited to try again and have decided to not waste any time and am getting things started this weekend.

my second hydro attempt >> https://budbuilders.org/threads/stoneys-candylicious-hydro-scrog.1136/

 

[Chemistry]

Try less air flow to stop the roots forming balls, or they tend to develop root rot in the middle due to the water being unable to flow between the roots, also use a good water enzime, I used Cannazyme in my buckets and this worked well for me, but any good enzime will work.

 

[GrumpAzz]

I forget.. did you use ANY microbes? Or was this a neither live nor sterile run?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Try less air flow to stop the roots forming balls, or they tend to develop root rot in the middle due to the water being unable to flow between the roots, also use a good water enzime, I used Cannazyme in my buckets and this worked well for me, but any good enzime will work.

a little less air huh?, thanks for tip man. i notice my current grows roots are forming to the turbulence in the bucket.. maybe this s a sign for too much air turbulence and i wasn't even aware.



i'll look into an enzyme for sure. thanks man!!!

I forget.. did you use ANY microbes? Or was this a neither live nor sterile run?

yes sir, i used orca and king crab throughout the entire time.

 

[GrumpAzz]

yes sir, i used orca and king crab throughout the entire time.

Right on. Them's Nova nutes sure stain the roots, eh?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Right on. Them's Nova nutes sure stain the roots, eh?

sure does man... mainly it's the floralicious that does it.. before i add that it's a thin light iced tea color and leaves no brown behind, as soon as i add the licious it gets icky.. adds a slight stink too!!! i actually had to bleach and scrub out my mixing barrel after about six or seven refills.

i've been struggling a bit with my solutions, not sure if something in my water changed or maybe something in the calimagic versus the humbolt calmag that's doing it but my ph has been sinking too much. i've made a test batch up just last night with less of a buffer.

i gotta give an update in my thread tonight... been a tiny bit bummed with it, just learned a couple days ago i still have mites in that cabinet! so with the crazy ph swings and mites they're not the happiest.

 

[moe.red]

ten weeks from seeds officially in the books.. i'm creeping up on topping off my rez volume in amounts. i know rules say to change out but i don't think i'll benefit from doing that in my situation because i'm kinda close to flush. wtf is a frush? (revenge of the nerds joke) i'm going to only topoff with florabloom and water with nothing else added from here on out and then a week away i'll fully drain and fill with florakleen. i really want to see how much root displacement i have!!!! kinda making bets with myself on if it's over/under five gallons.. i think over!!

not good but could be worse so i'll take it!! the left plant is further along than the right.



View attachment 77235

View attachment 77236View attachment 77237

i can't wait to grow without pesticides!!!!! my nutes and solution strength didn't burn the leaves like that, the bug bomb did... don't think i'll be smoking any of this round but it was an awesome learning experience and i can't ait to have another shot at it!

i'll be harvesting in like three weeks then i'l do a cleaning and start the next round right away!!

Dude I’m sorry I’ve been busy building my grow room and haven’t checked in. I gotta go back and read wtf happened? Bugs? I’ll catch up

 

[Stoneyluv]

Dude I’m sorry I’ve been busy building my grow room and haven’t checked in. I gotta go back and read wtf happened? Bugs? I’ll catch up

yeah the bugs and then my reaction to them ruined the whole grow.. my fuckups ruined the soil part and the the poison/spray/piss poor efforts on my part then screwed up the hydro plants. i did have a harvest and have smoked some.. smells amazing but i'm no good with flower so i gave a little out to two friends recently and i am waiting to hear back any day now..

i'm gonna update the candylicious thread... the plants are doing OK and i didn't screw anything up too bad yet.. been stalling them out because i know they're not right ATM...

 

[GrumpAzz]

sure does man... mainly it's the floralicious that does it.. before i add that it's a thin light iced tea color and leaves no brown behind, as soon as i add the licious it gets icky.. adds a slight stink too!!! i actually had to bleach and scrub out my mixing barrel after about six or seven refills.

i've been struggling a bit with my solutions, not sure if something in my water changed or maybe something in the calimagic versus the humbolt calmag that's doing it but my ph has been sinking too much. i've made a test batch up just last night with less of a buffer.

i gotta give an update in my thread tonight... been a tiny bit bummed with it, just learned a couple days ago i still have mites in that cabinet! so with the crazy ph swings and mites they're not the happiest.

Damn that's a bummer... even AFTER the bug bomb? Dang.

-------

I ping-ponged a lot with my pH during my first couple grows. Hopefully you can get it figured out. Did you maybe get a nasty bout of acid rain recently?

 

[Stoneyluv]

Damn that's a bummer... even AFTER the bug bomb? Dang.

-------

I ping-ponged a lot with my pH during my first couple grows. Hopefully you can get it figured out. Did you maybe get a nasty bout of acid rain recently?

yeah, bug bomb, then bleached all the walls and floors and thought i had it clean and clear but then later learned they were probably in the lumber and i think my infestation is much worse than i ever thought. this is the first time they are beating me and freaking me out a little. i'm just glad they are staying to this one cabinet.

.
.

part of my ph issue is also self inflicted some times.. i over shoot once in awhile and have to add the other to balance out my heavy adjustment. so compound the ping ponging and then my alkalinity screw ups on top and it just makes for doh! moments!!! and then i'm off on my nute ratios with extra potassium again before i know it! i'll learn sooner or later!!! i hope! hehe