Stoney's Soil vs Hydro Apple Fritter Auto show

[Bandit420]

I grew in soil my first couple years and I have a heavy hand so I failed miserably.
that smaller pots and extra perlite is the way to go I found it difficult to give proper nutrient levels to the plants when they didn't have proper drybacks and I would always get a few plants that would be on different watering schedules. Haven't tried hydro yet still on coco but not sure I'll ever go back to soil unless I start growing outdoors

It was my past work and experience with several types of hydro from no medium tech like DWC and aero to coco and hydroton mediums that really upped my game in organics and soil.
Out of everything, aeroponics is my favorite but getting it organic is extremely difficult and very high maintenance.
I think the best thing any grower can do is cross train and apply what we learn across the mediums into the preferred choice. I bounce back and forth trying things but the goal is always to be organic and go saltless. Organic is probaly the only thing I'm really married to in growing weed. Everything else is up for grabs.
But I'd definitely say the things I can do in soils and organics today would not be where they are if not for lots of experience in hydro

 

[Stoneyluv]

Looks like you've found that pesky speed bump in your soil grows buddy.
The big advantage the 'dro has over the soil is oxygen in the roots and it always plays out this way in side by sides.
I think the only way to keep up is to use aerating containers like airpots or fabric bags and cut the soil 75/25 with xtra perlite if needed.
And downsize container as well. Like I think you're in 7gallon, cut it down to 2-3 gallon next time especially for autos. You'll get a faster dry back which means more air and a more rapid exchange in watering.
I don't cut my soil but the airpots are where I find the speed to keep pace with hydro. I also aerate my water looking for additional ways to inject air into the medium.
The smaller aerating container and xtra perlite will help get lots more oxygen to the roots instead of being choked off like that. The hydro can breathe freely so you want to achieve that in the soil otherwise it's like the roots are trying to breathe with a pillow covering their face.

yea i really shot myself in the foot with these bigger containers.. i was trying for a final pot thing with the autos but auto or not they're still plants and i should have treated them as such. i should have started small like you say and having dry backs would have helped considerably plus when upcanning you get the fresh new soil added in!!

it's okay man, i've completely decided this will not be my last side x side!!! i really like the hydro and it's been a lot of fun for me and super glad i tried it and can't wait to take everything i learned so far and get another shot at it.

i think with some better practice and giving the soil plants a much better start i can do better and i feel the autos held me back just a little because that little bit of stress pushed the soil plants into flower and now i'm stuck at the small size.

next run will be with photos and some much needed changes. i also want to make the room itself a little more controllable, i've been lucky so far and i am able to keep the numbers in check but other times of the year might not be as lucky.

.
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in the middle of week five right now...



i raised the two soil plants up to match the same lighting level...





one is growing good and the others are ehhh... i screwed it all up with the orange oil it was such a setback.

i have all the bloom nutrients mixed and aerating.. the organics in the flourolicious is teaming well with the orca!!!!! it's got foam and that yummy organic smell to it!!!! it's been holding steady at 5.7 and around 510ppm.... probably do a rez change out tomorrow.

i put in Agsil 16 - KOH- Calimagic - Nova Bloom - Koolbloom - Orca - King Crab - Flouralicious

 

[Stoneyluv]

end of week five and growing lopsided..

 

[GrumpAzz]

Did the soil plants start to flower?

Edit: oh yeah.. they're autos

 

[Costanza]

end of week five and growing lopsided..

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I love that song

 

[Stoneyluv]

Did the soil plants start to flower?

Edit: oh yeah.. they're autos

yea they did, all five (including the gallon challenge) switched.

i switched to bloom nutes on tuesday. 550 ppm of Agsil 16 - KOH- Calimagic - Nova Bloom - Koolbloom - Orca - King Crab - Flouralicious

also forgot to mention i bought a quart of acid for $30 and reduced it down to 20% and made a gallon of high proof pH down!!!

I love that song

one of the best for sure!!!!!!!!

 

[Stoneyluv]

performed my very first top off tonight!!! just plain water as it was my first.. i'm gonna let it circulate for a couple hours and take the readings and do the math!!

Question: when i top off with nutes i don't need to add silicate again, correct? just calmag/nutes let it circulate and correct pH if needed?

duckies head floated right under the lid so i knew it was time!! plants used two gallons in eight days.










the soil plants are at the point of no return and will flower the best they can... still fighting gnats...

 

[GrumpAzz]

Question: when i top off with nutes i don't need to add silicate again, correct? just calmag/nutes let it circulate and correct pH if needed?

I don't do the top-ups like Aqua and Smoke but my top-off res still contains some silicate until I'm flowering. It's the same solution as the lowers only diluted down a but.

I mix 50 gallons, dump 30-35 gallons into the lowers, then add RO to the top-off. I've been leaving 30 gallons in the top-off so that's roughly 2/3 of the initial EC.

 

[Stoneyluv]

I don't do the top-ups like Aqua and Smoke but my top-off res still contains some silicate until I'm flowering. It's the same solution as the lowers only diluted down a but.

I mix 50 gallons, dump 30-35 gallons into the lowers, then add RO to the top-off. I've been leaving 30 gallons in the top-off so that's roughly 2/3 of the initial EC.

thanks, i'm in flower and didn't want to over do it. i figured the potassium thats in there is mostly for buffer and the plant isn't eating much of it so if i keep adding it i might go too far.

the volume you guys use is mind blowing to me.. with only having a small plant and a half they don't use much at all. i'll be mixing two weeks of my top off nutes in a five gallon bucket!!

so in the past week my plants only used 60ppm of the food i gave them... it's like when you take your lady out for steak and lobster and she only eats the salad!!!!!

i'm just shocked on how little they used. i really can't wait to start over again.. i learned a bunch so far and look forward to learning more!

 

[Stoneyluv]

mixed up some top off nutes last week and gave them half over the weekend. i only mixed up four gallons. and it was only at 250ppm, if they only want salad then thats all they get!

i should have named this thread hydro vs hydro... i assume i made a bad choice in genetics and this is not some severe design flaw in my system?




i added higher pedestals to the soil plants..



i bet i could two plant SCROG that whole cabinet off...

 

[Stoneyluv]

looks like it might be a one horse race, not sure what will happen here just yet. sadly i still have spider mites and i am doing everything i can to not have to toss the plant just yet. i checked a couple dozen leaf samples while i was doing a defol and i didn't see any alive at all, saw four or five dead ones and a bunch of eggs. i think i underestimated them this time as i'm usually pretty proficient of getting rid of them in the past. i think i left my guard down too much and they came back before i even noticed them.

so here we are a couple weeks into flowering. i mixed up a bigger top off batch last night, they sucked through that four gallons last week. i made a twelve gallon batch this time. roots are getting so heavy i can barely lift them out with one hand!!!

 

[steamroller]

Man I hate spider mites.
I never found them easy to kill once my plants were in flower.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Man I hate spider mites.
I never found them easy to kill once my plants were in flower.

the ONLY thing that made me feel good was seeing the dead ones!! i pulled the rest of the plants out and and put them outside. i clearly failed with those plants anyway so no reason growing them out for a doobie worth. i left the gallon challenge plant in there.

i haven't sprayed anything on the plant itself, i bought this stuff but have not sprayed any on the plants at all, just the parameters and walls.

hey did you happen to see first shift of OP live last night? the dude in Arkansas with the scratchy voice had a daddy long legs on his back and they said they're actually of the mite family. it made me wonder like hell if they would kill spider mites?? i've seen daddy long legs suck the juice out of stink bugs before so i know they're meat eaters!!!

i'm sure if there was anything to it people would already be doing it.. still temping though.
a quick google search says it's possible, i just need to get them hungry enough and make them mean!!!!

 

[steamroller]

Lady bugs are what you want I believe.
Big difference between flowers and shrubs and vegetables or eatable fruit.
I would read that spray label well.
Part of my failure in beating them is not being willing to use many sprays and dead set against the soaps.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Lady bugs are what you want I believe.
Big difference between flowers and shrubs and vegetables or eatable fruit.
I would read that spray label well.
Part of my failure in beating them is not being willing to use many sprays and dead set against the soaps.

i think you're right lady bugs are tougher... i'm thinking of ordering some Phytoseiulus Persimilis, these are the mean bunch!! i think under $50 could solve it. might be worth it just to test.

i'm most likely gonna pick one of these...

Predator Mites

Here you will find access to the collection of predator mites we offer. They currently include: Neoseiulus Californiuc, Neoseiulus Fallacis, Galendromus Occidentalis and Phytoseiulus Persimilis

mibeneficials.com

and some of their gnat killers too!!!!

 

[Max]

They are awesome stoney..and fast movers.I’ve had them in my back yard for decades..never one bad mite living too long here.

 

[Bandit420]

mixed up some top off nutes last week and gave them half over the weekend. i only mixed up four gallons. and it was only at 250ppm, if they only want salad then thats all they get!

i should have named this thread hydro vs hydro... i assume i made a bad choice in genetics and this is not some severe design flaw in my system?

View attachment 74718View attachment 74721
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i added higher pedestals to the soil plants.. View attachment 74722

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i bet i could two plant SCROG that whole cabinet off...

Still a cool grow and lots to learn from it!
I think if anything you're getting a good crash course in how and why auto opinions vary so widely. If you had only the soil you might think they suck and if only hydro they'd be outstanding.
Fun fact about that meter: It came from Ukranium military surplus before the war. Yeah the Ukranians sell war surplus on ebay. Who knew?!
IDK how accurate it is but I liked taking it out in the Sun then measuring what my lights were doing compared to that.
If the 550 is on point, ideally you want to bump it up to around 7-900 heading into flower and have it go past it's 1100 or so limit and reset when in full flower swell.

I use pyrethrum foggers for mites but nothing after pistils show. Been looking for a predator option that can do well outside and get them at the source.
I've also taken to spraying my outer window I have boarded up with Home Defense spider and ant killer and I've also sprayed inside behind the inner board window. Cleaned floors and walls with orange oil and or bleach.

 

[Stoneyluv]

Still a cool grow and lots to learn from it!
I think if anything you're getting a good crash course in how and why auto opinions vary so widely. If you had only the soil you might think they suck and if only hydro they'd be outstanding.

i'm really curious about it man for sure. i guess i can only wonder at this point. part of me wishes i would have went with the seeds my neighbor suggested. we'll be finding out soon enough when i start the next batch!! really leaning towards those Irie seeds you gave me.

Fun fact about that meter: It came from Ukranium military surplus before the war. Yeah the Ukranians sell war surplus on ebay. Who knew?!
IDK how accurate it is but I liked taking it out in the Sun then measuring what my lights were doing compared to that.
If the 550 is on point, ideally you want to bump it up to around 7-900 heading into flower and have it go past it's 1100 or so limit and reset when in full flower swell.

for real, Ukraine surplus?!?! well shit now i don't feel bad one bit for modifying it!! the other night i cannibalized an old LUX meter to make that PAR meter have a handheld sensor... even fits the canvas case!! didn't even have to modify anything on the meter, just soldered the stretchy cable in between!!

I use pyrethrum foggers for mites but nothing after pistils show. Been looking for a predator option that can do well outside and get them at the source.
I've also taken to spraying my outer window I have boarded up with Home Defense spider and ant killer and I've also sprayed inside behind the inner board window. Cleaned floors and walls with orange oil and or bleach.

i essentially did fog them only it's not fog, i got a no pest strip chernobyl dome going on in there with no exhaust fans or any fresh air moving through. the seedlings in the black cabinet aren't getting any of it, i have all the recirc fans off as well. just one ACI oscillating the radiation.

i still have not seen any alive, today i cut out another few leaves and only saw eggs. i'll wait and see....

after i'm done with all this poison i'm going to order some predators.. i was reading up and learned they have different species depending on where you live, like they have ones that live in triple digits for you and there are ones that winter over and hibernate under 40° and repopulate again in the spring for places like i live... i was looking and i'm going to buy two or three species and let em rip!! gonna buy some of those gnat eating beetles too!

 

[Stoneyluv]

still nuking mites, haven't seen any alive in a week now but not letting my guard down this time. this weekend i'll do a good inspection and see what up, plants are now wall to wall, corner to corner..

ppm is around 440 on a 500 scale.

 

[Stoneyluv]

the bug poison isn't fully working and i still find a living crawling two spotter every few days. the poison isn't killing them and now it's just affecting the plants. i ordered some predator mites in a last ditch effort. i've never used them before so i will find out.

it's time to mix up more top off solution. still hovering just under 500ppm.

 

[Stoneyluv]

i introduced predator mites to my plants today. i bought them from natures good guys through amazon. it cost me $45 for 2000 little critters.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08MHWD65T?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title

they were sent overnight shipping in freezer packs. they arrived alive and kicking. they're tough to see, smaller than the two spotters for sure. the red oes were pretty easy to see and those suckers are fast!!!! came in the convenient shaker bottle and the bottom was just carboard that you can rip out and stick the container right over the buds because there were quite a lot of hunters still in the plastic jar hours after i opened it. get every drop worth kinda deal!!

been about ten hours now and i see them hunting for sure... surprised to see just how far some of them spread on the plant so far.

if they work i am going serious consider buying these sachets for each grow as a prevention...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08PTK7M2T/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_2?smid=A1WMQPAGZ5642Q&psc=1

they recommend 2-10 predators per square foot. i got enough to fill both cabinets at around 60 per ft² for overkill.

i'll report more on this war over the weekend!!!

i have high hopes..

.

and i'm not sure if it's the cultivar or the hydro but these plants are stinking in all the right ways!!!!!!

 

[OLDCRO]

I use

Stratiolaelaps Scimitus mites every grow touch wood ive never seen a bug.​

 

[Stoneyluv]

I use

Stratiolaelaps Scimitus mites every grow touch wood ive never seen a bug.​

i never heard of that one, i bought these four: A.cucumeris, N. californicus, P. persimilis. and A. swirskii

you say every grow, do they reproduce and continue on?
i can only find where they seem to last tier lifetime. just wondering if they continue on and hang out till harvest?

 

[OLDCRO]

i never heard of that one, i bought these four: A.cucumeris, N. californicus, P. persimilis. and A. swirskii

you say every grow, do they reproduce and continue on?
i can only find where they seem to last tier lifetime. just wondering if they continue on and hang out till harvest?

I never re use any growing material i use promix so when grow harvested bags are dumped out to garden. So every new grow i reapply for prevention. If they are well fed they will reproduce they can go weeks without food.

 

[OLDCRO]

i never heard of that one, i bought these four: A.cucumeris, N. californicus, P. persimilis. and A. swirskii

you say every grow, do they reproduce and continue on?
i can only find where they seem to last tier lifetime. just wondering if they continue on and hang out till harvest?

You should not use bug killing sprays and such as they will kill off your predator mites.

 

[OLDCRO]

 

[OLDCRO]

 

[Stoneyluv]

I never re use any growing material i use promix so when grow harvested bags are dumped out to garden. So every new grow i reapply for prevention. If they are well fed they will reproduce they can go weeks without food.

thanks for that info man, those sound like just the ones i need!! for two spotters and gnats, hell yea!! i did a very quick search and didn't see them at the places i get from before but i'll find some.

they're huge too!!!

You should not use bug killing sprays and such as they will kill off your predator mites.

yea i agree with that. i didn't have any clue i was going to try predators back when i sprayed.. i've tried to clean and exhaust the best i could the days leading up to the delivery. i was aware i was taking a big risk. this was mainly so i wouldn't get infested with them on my new batch of plants in the adjoining room, i didn't use any pesticides at all on those plants. just these two hydros and the gallon challenge in this room has the poison.

View attachment 76945

am i sadistic for loving this photo? i need to find a source for those monsters here in the US. i'm gonna search this weekend when i have more time.

 

[OLDCRO]

thanks for that info man, those sound like just the ones i need!! for two spotters and gnats, hell yea!! i did a very quick search and didn't see them at the places i get from before but i'll find some.

they're huge too!!!



yea i agree with that. i didn't have any clue i was going to try predators back when i sprayed.. i've tried to clean and exhaust the best i could the days leading up to the delivery. i was aware i was taking a big risk. this was mainly so i wouldn't get infested with them on my new batch of plants in the adjoining room, i didn't use any pesticides at all on those plants. just these two hydros and the gallon challenge in this room has the poison.



am i sadistic for loving this photo? i need to find a source for those monsters here in the US. i'm gonna search this weekend when i have more time.

They go by two names Stratiolaelaps Scimitus/Hypoaspis Miles

 

[OLDCRO]

thanks for that info man, those sound like just the ones i need!! for two spotters and gnats, hell yea!! i did a very quick search and didn't see them at the places i get from before but i'll find some.

they're huge too!!!



yea i agree with that. i didn't have any clue i was going to try predators back when i sprayed.. i've tried to clean and exhaust the best i could the days leading up to the delivery. i was aware i was taking a big risk. this was mainly so i wouldn't get infested with them on my new batch of plants in the adjoining room, i didn't use any pesticides at all on those plants. just these two hydros and the gallon challenge in this room has the poison.



am i sadistic for loving this photo? i need to find a source for those monsters here in the US. i'm gonna search this weekend when i have more time.

These guys are in Arizona as your in the US i presume

• Phone: 520-298-4400
• info@buglogical.com