ViparSpectra KS3000 - 5x5 Solo Cup run #2

[Observer]

How long does the O2 last in the media? It's a gas right? If organic matter is what converts H2O2 to O2 could you pour it into unplanted potting mix to raise o2 levels in the media?

""The H2O2 is very unstable in its current form and quickly breaks down once in the nutrient solution. Essentially, within a short space of time it’s present only in its component form, and in reaching this form it releases a single oxygen atom. This oxygen atom is ultra-reactive as well as aggressive"

i think pressure is what helps keep it stable, as in when its sealed, once its opened and poured AND finds organic matter 1 oxygen atom is released

 

[Rootsruler]

as in how much oxyen is released ?

As in how much H2O2 can you give it with only 5% organics in the nutrient until it becomes detrimental?

 

[GrumpAzz]

All I know is.. my fallponics jets shoot directly into the rootzone, taking bubbles with it. Has to be beneficial, right?

 

[Observer]

As in how much H2O2 can you give it with only 5% organics in the nutrient until it becomes detrimental?

a small dose would be beneficial to an extent, now that exact value or range, im not sure.

let me look at that floranova stuff real quick

what is this 5% organics that you are referring to?

 

[Rootsruler]

""The H2O2 is very unstable in its current form and quickly breaks down once in the nutrient solution. Essentially, within a short space of time it’s present only in its component form, and in reaching this form it releases a single oxygen atom. This oxygen atom is ultra-reactive as well as aggressive"

i think pressure is what helps keep it stable, as in when its sealed, once its opened and poured AND finds organic matter 1 oxygen atom is released

But once it's released does it dissipate into the air? In our application how can we keep the Oxygen in the media long enough for our plants to take advantage?

 

[Observer]

But once it's released does it dissipate into the air? In our application how can we keep the Oxygen in the media long enough for our plants to take advantage?

well, its going to down through the root zone and i suppose the oxygen is going to start interacting with everything nearly instant, and the rootzone will uptake it as well.

that free oxygen atom has to bind to something

 

[Observer]

how can we keep the Oxygen in the media long enough for our plants to take advantage?

few ideas and depends on the media

soil, good luck - i have 1, 2 ideas for that.

coco - high freq fert coco constantly pushes air down into the media.

water media - colder the better (thats not detrimental to plant) and pressurized

 

[Rootsruler]

What kind of O2 bump would we expect from a properly dosed solution?

 

[Observer]

But once it's released does it dissipate into the air? In our application how can we keep the Oxygen in the media long enough for our plants to take advantage?

if it finds nothing, i suppose maybe it just goes out the bottom or the top, but i bet theres enough for it interact with, this is also why 100% vermiculite would be better than 100% coco, because you can get a more dense root system (more uptake), provide less water at a time as it retains it better, and then the plant uptakes it quicker, meaning frequent watering, just less amount at a time.

 

[Rootsruler]

few ideas and depends on the media

soil, good luck - i have 1, 2 ideas for that.

coco - high freq fert coco constantly pushes air down into the media.

water media - colder the better (thats not detrimental to plant) and pressurized

I can see how this would be beneficial in a closed, sealed system but how can we translate that into an ambient system like soil? I'm going to try placing an 8" air disc inside a plastic pot and cover it with cloth so it doesn't clog. Curious to see if it'll have any effect on growth.

 

[Observer]

I can see how this would be beneficial in a closed, sealed system but how can we translate that into an ambient system like soil? I'm going to try placing an 8" air disc inside a plastic pot and cover it with cloth so it doesn't clog. Curious to see if it'll have any effect on growth.

you can do that, looked like its working well for pipecarver

i had one idea, one could take an o2 concentrator similar to how moe has, and connect it to a refrigerated body of water and that would be youre water solution source, the cold and pressure helps keep the oxygen/gases pressurized and dissolved into the solution

 

[Observer]

What kind of O2 bump would we expect from a properly dosed solution?

im gathering data

 

[Observer]

I can see how this would be beneficial in a closed, sealed system but how can we translate that into an ambient system like soil? I'm going to try placing an 8" air disc inside a plastic pot and cover it with cloth so it doesn't clog. Curious to see if it'll have any effect on growth.

i mean you could possibly just aerate the solution too for a little bit maybe

with an airstone but yea maybe not worth it and or cause other issues.

 

[Observer]

I can see how this would be beneficial in a closed, sealed system but how can we translate that into an ambient system like soil? I'm going to try placing an 8" air disc inside a plastic pot and cover it with cloth so it doesn't clog. Curious to see if it'll have any effect on growth.

"Aeration: This is the most effective way to increase the DO level in water. It can be done by pouring the water back and forth between two containers, using an aerator, or by creating waterfalls or other areas of turbulence."

- Google Bard

 

[Observer]

"The amount of dissolved oxygen (DO) in a gallon of tap water can vary depending on a number of factors, including the temperature, location, and time of day. However, in general, you can expect a gallon of tap water to have a DO level of around 6-8 mg/L""

"The ambient DO level can vary depending on a number of factors, including the temperature, salinity, and pollution of the water.
In general, the ambient DO level in a healthy body of water is between 6.5 and 8 mg/L.""

-Google Bard

 

[Rootsruler]

The airstone method is pretty much how it's been done but even then I'm suspect as to how truly effective it is when we're talking about how much DO water can hold. Aquamans research shows DO only reaching atmospheric levels as any elevation of DO in water while dissipate and equalize with ambient air levels. If you can keep it in an enclosed space then, I would imagine, raising DO in an appreciable way would be possible.

Not knocking it as an option but I've run airstoned water and I didn't see any real improvements over straight water with no DO attempts. At least mechanically injected like with an airstone. H2O2 has a better chance at staying in the water due to introducing it chemically hence my interest in your findings.

Really the question should be that we know both methods work in their own way but what will get the most oxygen to our plants in the easiest and most effective way?

 

[Rootsruler]

you can do that, looked like its working well for pipecarver

i had one idea, one could take an o2 concentrator similar to how moe has, and connect it to a refrigerated body of water and that would be youre water solution source, the cold and pressure helps keep the oxygen/gases pressurized and dissolved into the solution

That would be great up to the point where the water starts to warm and gasses would escape.

I've run water chillers to water at 68* and didn't see any discernible improvements. I know that colder water will hold more oxy. It's keeping it in the solution and media long enough for the plants to be able to access it.

 

[Observer]

The airstone method is pretty much how it's been done but even then I'm suspect as to how truly effective it is when we're talking about how much DO water can hold. Aquamans research shows DO only reaching atmospheric levels as any elevation of DO in water while dissipate and equalize with ambient air levels. If you can keep it in an enclosed space then, I would imagine, raising DO in an appreciable way would be possible.

Not knocking it as an option but I've run airstoned water and I didn't see any real improvements over straight water with no DO attempts. At least mechanically injected like with an airstone. H2O2 has a better chance at staying in the water due to introducing it chemically hence my interest in your findings.

Really the question should be that we know both methods work in their own way but what will get the most oxygen to our plants in the easiest and most effective way?

i want to get a DO probe so i can see the differences

 

[Observer]

That would be great up to the point where the water starts to warm and gasses would escape.

I've run water chillers to water at 68* and didn't see any discernible improvements. I know that colder water will hold more oxy. It's keeping it in the solution and media long enough for the plants to be able to access it.

easiest and most effective way would be you hang the plant in mist, lol.

and the roots dangle.

 

[Observer]

What kind of O2 bump would we expect from a properly dosed solution?

""The amount of time that you need to aerate the water will depend on the desired DO level. If you need to increase the DO level to 10 mg/L, you will need to aerate the water for 2 hours.""

-Google Bard

 

[Observer]

""The DO level of a gallon of tap water aerated with an airstone will depend on a number of factors, including the temperature of the water, the size of the airstone, and the amount of time that the water is aerated.

However, in general, you can expect the DO level to increase by 1-2 mg/L for every hour of aeration.


For example, if you start with a gallon of tap water with a DO level of 6 mg/L, and you aerate it with an airstone for 1 hour, you can expect the DO level to increase to 8 mg/L.""

 

[Observer]

That would be great up to the point where the water starts to warm and gasses would escape.

I've run water chillers to water at 68* and didn't see any discernible improvements. I know that colder water will hold more oxy. It's keeping it in the solution and media long enough for the plants to be able to access it.

well if you have DO increased Solution, as soon as you give it to plants, the oxygen is probably rapidly used.

 

[Observer]

I've run water chillers to water at 68* and didn't see any discernible improvements. I know that colder water will hold more oxy. It's keeping it in the solution and media long enough for the plants to be able to access it.

what about the pressure variable?, and what kind of turbulence where you using or what was the method used to increase DO?

 

[Observer]

That would be great up to the point where the water starts to warm and gasses would escape.

I've run water chillers to water at 68* and didn't see any discernible improvements. I know that colder water will hold more oxy. It's keeping it in the solution and media long enough for the plants to be able to access it.

• High-Efficiency Aeration Membranes:
  • Employ high-efficiency aeration membranes that produce finer bubbles to increase oxygen transfer rates.
  • Fine bubble aeration systems can achieve oxygen transfer efficiencies of 80-90%.
  • Bubble size: Less than 1 millimeter.

 

[Rootsruler]

• High-Efficiency Aeration Membranes:
  • Employ high-efficiency aeration membranes that produce finer bubbles to increase oxygen transfer rates.
  • Fine bubble aeration systems can achieve oxygen transfer efficiencies of 80-90%.
  • Bubble size: Less than 1 millimeter.

View attachment 18184

Now we're talking. Any idea how long the O2 stays in the water?

 

[Observer]

• Temperature: The solubility of oxygen in water decreases with increasing temperature. So, the DO level in water will be lower at higher temperatures.
• Salinity: Saltwater can hold less DO than freshwater.
• Turbidity: Turbid water has less DO than clear water because the turbidity particles block the diffusion of oxygen from the atmosphere into the water.
• Depth: The DO level decreases with depth because the water at the bottom of the body of water is less exposed to the atmosphere.
• Biological activity: Aquatic organisms such as fish and algae consume oxygen. So, the DO level will be lower in water with a lot of biological activity.

he free oxygen molecules in a hydrogen peroxide solution will get used up quickly in plant media such as coco coir. The rate of consumption will depend on a number of factors, including the concentration of the hydrogen peroxide solution, the volume of the solution, the type of plant media, and the temperature.

In general, the higher the concentration of the hydrogen peroxide solution, the faster the free oxygen molecules will be used up. The larger the volume of the solution, the longer it will take for the free oxygen molecules to be used up. The type of plant media will also affect the rate of consumption.

Coco coir is a porous material that allows for good air circulation, so the free oxygen molecules will be used up more quickly than in a material that is not porous.

The temperature will also affect the rate of consumption. Hydrogen peroxide decomposes more quickly at higher temperatures, so the free oxygen molecules will be used up more quickly in warm coco coir than in cold coco coir.

 

[Observer]

Now we're talking. Any idea how long the O2 stays in the water?

• In a stagnant pond on a hot day, the DO level can decrease to zero in a matter of hours.
• In a flowing stream on a cool day, the DO level can stay relatively constant for days or even weeks.
• In a lake with a lot of algae, the DO level can decrease to dangerous levels overnight.
• In a well-aerated aquarium, the DO level can stay high for months or even years.

 

[Observer]

"There is no one answer to the question of how long the DO stays in water. The answer will vary depending on the specific conditions""

 

[Observer]

@Rootsruler appreciate the questions, all good ones.

we learnin'

these membranes look cool.

 

[Observer]

@Rootsruler i would like to get/make a chamber, cool it, pressurize it, inject O2 via o2tank

shit it may not even be necessary if just injecting o2 via tank.