Zen_seeker’s DIY Mixmash

[Zen_seeker]

I don’t have hydro guard or the rest after Karma on the chart.

G$ and I thought the HU Max which is 0-0-10. But it was free from one of my shops. It’s like lumpy black goop. I’ve used less than noted and the water still gets dark so planned to drop next feed. Unless you guys have a better opinion.

G$ also reminded less is more so the Botanicare Tea and other stuff isn’t being used at the moment. Neither is epsom.

My full nutrients catalog is on first two posts as pics. In case more detail is needed fast.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Seems the best I can do ATM it two points higher temps for two points higher RH.

Twin1 is Zen 1:




Both are set to same triggers.

26*c & 60% RH.

 

[Zen_seeker]

No more replies means time to clean up and see if wifey is still waiting or if it’s going to be a cold night.

 

[Aqua Man]

I don’t have hydro guard or the rest after Karma on the chart.

G$ and I thought the HU Max which is 0-0-10. But it was free from one of my shops. It’s like lumpy black goop. I’ve used less than noted and the water still gets dark so planned to drop next feed. Unless you guys have a better opinion.

G$ also reminded less is more so the Botanicare Tea and other stuff isn’t being used at the moment. Neither is epsom.

My full nutrients catalog is on first two posts as pics. In case more detail is needed fast.

That’s potassium sulphate and molasses its a sweetener for finishing… i think without looking up the product and going by your description

 

[Aqua Man]

No more replies means time to clean up and see if wifey is still waiting or if it’s going to be a cold night.

Thanks guys.

(Replace post tomorrow morning leave no evidence of thanks)

Out for the night so here intermittently

 

[Zen_seeker]

That’s potassium sulphate and molasses its a sweetener for finishing… i think without looking up the product and going by your description

Most are and say sweet in the name unless this is an older version?


Item I got for free that I’m thinking I should stop is on left. Leonardite. Muddy.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Out for the night so here intermittently

Other than crossing fingers the feedings improve Twin1 color and correcting the humidity as best I can should I be doing anything else.

Still can’t believe humidity looks like NT. Thanks for that. Adds up and makes sense. Not only last week but months earlier. I didn’t think it would be a big deal in Veg.

GNick didn’t care for foliar sprays. I used to use weak teas or mist if humidity was needed. The foliar seemed to help after transplants or when leaves looked lighter.

New forum, new guru, new rules. How do you or @Moe.Red feel about foliar?

Both my tea of worm castings with or without molasses or the Botanicare one can be used. Or most low level nutrients.

Bro science, waste of resources that would be better used on roots, or does have practical uses?

 

[Aqua Man]

Other than crossing fingers the feedings improve Twin1 color and correcting the humidity as best I can should I be doing anything else.

Still can’t believe humidity looks like NT. Thanks for that. Adds up and makes sense. Not only last week but months earlier. I didn’t think it would be a big deal in Veg.

GNick didn’t care for foliar sprays. I used to use weak teas or mist if humidity was needed. The foliar seemed to help after transplants or when leaves looked lighter.

New forum, new guru, new rules. How do you or @Moe.Red feel about foliar?

Both my tea of worm castings with or without molasses or the Botanicare one can be used. Or most low level nutrients.

Bro science, waste of resources that would be better used on roots, or does have practical uses?

Foliar imo has its place.

1. IPM
2. Treat an acute deficiency
3. Don’t do it if its not because if #1 or #2

I just don’t see a reason off the top of my head to do ao other than those. I could be missing something though.

Come to think of it in crop steering a foliar silica is beneficial just before or after a defoliation

 

[Zen_seeker]

So pest management or deficiencies. Maybe last minute boost of a nutrient.
Good enough.
TY

Wife held off on laundry but had basement windows open. One intake fan was on the other off.

Correcting slowly over last 30 minutes with intake off. I’ll manually work fans and adjust as needed.


SCROG is Zen 2.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Yeah that leaf curl isn’t N its just from transpiration issues.

45-50% is probably fine… 50-55% ideal but make sure you have good airflow through the plants

I meant to ask...

Better RH a little high or low if I had to pick one?

I try to error on low side as I am a grumpy fart the higher the humidity and temps get. So a tad bios.

 

[Coco Lopez]

Great lookin grow @Zen_seeker and man I hear ya about Temp and RH wars. May be useless info but it at least seems feasible that a last ditch effort to decrease RH in a tent without a dehu could be to add a bunch of dry towels on the ground and/or even hanging. I have used towels before just can't say exactly what affect if any it had. Maybe since your t6 exhausts into same room, you could fold towel over exit and entrance, potentially helping dry out the lung room. I'm trying to catch up on your grow so please excuse my ignorance of whether you are trying to increase or decrease RH, or both.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Great lookin grow @Zen_seeker and man I hear ya about Temp and RH wars. May be useless info but it at least seems feasible that a last ditch effort to decrease RH in a tent without a dehu could be to add a bunch of dry towels on the ground and/or even hanging. I have used towels before just can't say exactly what affect if any it had. Maybe since your t6 exhausts into same room, you could fold towel over exit and entrance, potentially helping dry out the lung room. I'm trying to catch up on your grow so please excuse my ignorance of whether you are trying to increase or decrease RH, or both.

Thanks man.

Feel free to toss any and all suggestions on the table.

I don’t always make it to the end before comments so I don’t expect others too.

Biggest problem is my lung room is a room that acts as a hallway from one end of basement to the other. I can’t close the doors as the dog would drive me nuts along with family.

We do manage to lock down in summer heatwaves but we haven’t swapped winter for summer setup yet. April/May was a horrible transition period this year. Less than a week we went from frost at night to 31c in the shade. Crazy.

Had to take the lettuce out. To much RH so she’s homeless. Maybe a window for her.

 

[Coco Lopez]

I meant to ask...

Better RH a little high or low if I had to pick one?

I try to error on low side as I am a grumpy fart the higher the humidity and temps get. So a tad bios.

I bet you will find that temp gun to check leaf temps well worth the cost. I bought a cheap ryobi at HD for maybe 20-30 and was great spent money. No joke I printed Aquas reply about ideal leaf temps being 75-78 and stuck to controller(see below ) and it is golden to me. Now I say "meh" to what my sensors say and just use the gun pew pew pew like at 10 leafs all over the tent and if they are within that range I feel I'm good.

As for RH higher or lower, I definitely think whether you are in veg or flower makes the most difference. In Veg, higher RH seems warranted and necessary so long as enough airflow exists within the jungle. I'm such a newb it took like 2 grows to realize my leaves weren't "crying" when I was finding random clear water on leaves. Did not realize that when they laid on top of each other and stayed stagnant without air-flow, that this would happen.

 

[Aqua Man]

I meant to ask...

Better RH a little high or low if I had to pick one?

I try to error on low side as I am a grumpy fart the higher the humidity and temps get. So a tad bios.

A little low imo

 

[Aqua Man]

@Zen_seeker just for clarification when leaves cup down its always transpiration. Could be many causes though. Spray then with something they didn’t like, humidity to high, high leaf temp or root zone issue like over watering. Its the result of not enough water movements through the plant to keep everything turgid.

N tox will be dark green and shiny leaves with just the tip hooked down not all the way around the leaf edges. Tip burn may be seen but not always

 

[Zen_seeker]

Man the smell is picking up even with basement windows open. Keep thinking I left jar open when I catch a whiff.

Personally I like it, most of the time. Didn’t start growing until legal so fuk the filters baby!

 

[Zen_seeker]

@Aqua Man

You shop crappy tire, any opinion on this?

General PDP Template

www.canadiantire.ca

Anyone know if this an okay tool. I don’t expect space station quality but it says if used properly you get fair results. For my needs I think that’s okay. But CT has duds a lot more these days.

 

[Aqua Man]

@Aqua Man

You shop crappy tire, any opinion on this?

View attachment 5538View attachment 5539

General PDP Template

www.canadiantire.ca

Anyone know if this an okay tool. I don’t expect space station quality but it says if used properly you get fair results. For my needs I think that’s okay. But CT has duds a lot more these days.

Yup that will work… use from 8” away from the leaf for that one.

 

[Zen_seeker]

Yup that will work… use from 8” away from the leaf for that one.

Think I’ll go for a walk.
TY

 

[Zen_seeker]

I bet you will find that temp gun to check leaf temps well worth the cost. I bought a cheap ryobi at HD for maybe 20-30 and was great spent money. No joke I printed Aquas reply about ideal leaf temps being 75-78 and stuck to controller(see below ) and it is golden to me. Now I say "meh" to what my sensors say and just use the gun pew pew pew like at 10 leafs all over the tent and if they are within that range I feel I'm good.

As for RH higher or lower, I definitely think whether you are in veg or flower makes the most difference. In Veg, higher RH seems warranted and necessary so long as enough airflow exists within the jungle. I'm such a newb it took like 2 grows to realize my leaves weren't "crying" when I was finding random clear water on leaves. Did not realize that when they laid on top of each other and stayed stagnant without air-flow, that this would happen.

Cool. I take screen shots or write in my journal. Need to get wifey to print a few charts at work.

But I own a CT digital thermometer now. Just have to wait until 7pm to use it.

Hmmm....what do I have that I know the temp of? Ice cube? Boiling water?

 

[Rootsruler]

I divide the canopy into 4 sections then take 4 or 5 readings in each section. I notate the values and average them and compare to the value ACI is telling me. Edge of tent temps are usually around 2 * -3* lower than in the middle of the canopy.

 

[Aqua Man]

I divide the canopy into 4 sections then take 4 or 5 readings in each section. I notate the values and average them and compare to the value ACI is telling me. Edge of tent temps are usually around 2 * -3* lower than in the middle of the canopy.

Lower light intensity or airflow would be the reason. The byproduct of some of the photons and especially in high light intensity will be heat.

 

[Rootsruler]

Lower light intensity or airflow would be the reason. The byproduct of some of the photons and especially in high light intensity will be heat.

Both. I have decreased the DLI to around 32 as the plants are coming into their final week before harvest. A few weeks ago I peaked the DLI to 40 and have stepped it down a bit until I hit 32. I don't have an oscillating fan so it's a little harder to get a proper mix. I do have a stationary fan but I really need to improve the air flow through the canopy. I have a tower fan that should be arriving soon that I will employ on my next grow to properly aerate the immediate area around the leaves.

Also, after your explanation of leaf temp and humidity I will be placing the probe deeper into the canopy rather than hovering just above to get a more accurate idea of humidity level and leaf temps.

 

[Aqua Man]

Both. I have decreased the DLI to around 32 as the plants are coming into their final week before harvest. A few weeks ago I peaked the DLI to 40 and have stepped it down a bit until I hit 32. I don't have an oscillating fan so it's a little harder to get a proper mix. I do have a stationary fan but I really need to improve the air flow through the canopy. I have a tower fan that should be arriving soon that I will employ on my next grow to properly aerate the immediate area around the leaves.

Also, after your explanation of leaf temp and humidity I will be placing the probe deeper into the canopy rather than hovering just above to get a more accurate idea of humidity level and leaf temps.

Yeah sensor placement is key… remember thisbis all dine tuning so dont take it as you have to… but the closer you are to ideal the less issues and healthier the plant will be.

Being able to measure things makes it easier to replicate and make small adjust to dial in your grow a bit mire each time

 

[Rootsruler]

Yeah sensor placement is key… remember thisbis all dine tuning so dont take it as you have to… but the closer you are to ideal the less issues and healthier the plant will be.

Being able to measure things makes it easier to replicate and make small adjust to dial in your grow a bit mire each time

Is there a difference in photons reflected off the walls of the tent vs direct transference? I would imagine that reflective light will lose some photons to the transfer so less actual PPFD but does it also change the spectrum? Do some spectra have more energy than others meaning reflective light would transfer more blue than red if blue had more energy than red in regards to transmission?

 

[Aqua Man]

Is there a difference in photons reflected off the walls of the tent vs direct transference? I would imagine that reflective light will lose some photons to the transfer so less actual PPFD but does it also change the spectrum? Do some spectra have more energy than others meaning reflective light would transfer more blue than red if blue had more energy than red in regards to transmission?

i really need to get some time to do a thread on that.

So not only does a light fixture have an efficiency for converting electricity into photons. The plants also have an efficiency of absorbing them… and this is based on the spectrum and receptors.

Red is most efficient then blue for photosynthesis but at high light intensity like 800+ppfd green becomes the most efficient.

You want to maximize the photons for all receptors. Thats why a full spectrum is the most efficient for photosynthesis.

Reflection does not change spectrum but if it’s passing through something like glass it can filter some of the photons out and can alter the spectrum. In terms of reflection depending in the properties of the reflector is can absorb photons but any which way you cut it any reflection that directs photons to the plants is better than no e

 

[Zen_seeker]

Both. I have decreased the DLI to around 32 as the plants are coming into their final week before harvest. A few weeks ago I peaked the DLI to 40 and have stepped it down a bit until I hit 32. I don't have an oscillating fan so it's a little harder to get a proper mix. I do have a stationary fan but I really need to improve the air flow through the canopy. I have a tower fan that should be arriving soon that I will employ on my next grow to properly aerate the immediate area around the leaves.

I use a tower in the middle of the two tents and leave the doors open if I have to.

I have small desk size clip on fans I started with but bought two 6” clip on oscillating fans. One for each tent. $25 CND. Hi/low off oscillation on/off. Wish low was lower for when plants are smaller but otherwise good.

6" Grip Clip Fan

Power code: 20W, diameter: 6.3” Two speeds, 180 degree oscillation Typically used on grow tent poles Power Cord: 5ft , UL plug

astralgrow.com

I’ve been clipping above and below SCROG as needed. Other tent I just move it up and down the pole a bit to change it up.

Also, after your explanation of leaf temp and humidity I will be placing the probe deeper into the canopy rather than hovering just above to get a more accurate idea of humidity level and leaf temps.

I try to not touch anything with the probe, especially if it conducts heat. Usually softwire to a controller cable or light support.

Enjoyed/enjoying Aqua’s VDP thread.

 

[Rootsruler]

I use a tower in the middle of the two tents and leave the doors open if I have to.

I have small desk size clip on fans I started with but bought two 6” clip on oscillating fans. One for each tent. $25 CND. Hi/low off oscillation on/off. Wish low was lower for when plants are smaller but otherwise good.

6" Grip Clip Fan

Power code: 20W, diameter: 6.3” Two speeds, 180 degree oscillation Typically used on grow tent poles Power Cord: 5ft , UL plug

astralgrow.com

I’ve been clipping above and below SCROG as needed. Other tent I just move it up and down the pole a bit to change it up.


I try to not touch anything with the probe, especially if it conducts heat. Usually softwire to a controller cable or light support.

Enjoyed/enjoying Aqua’s VDP thread.

The tower fan I bought sits at the same height as I like to set my scrogs at. The mouth of the fan starts around 9 inches below the net line and approximately 3 - 4 inches above it. After reading Aquas post I'm see that while moving air OVER the canopy getting a gentle sway of the plants to strengthen branches is good the more important aspect is to move the gases that the stomata is expelling while introducing new gases like Co2 for uptake along with controlling overall humidity around the leaves themselves and regulating temperature.

The Dimlux chart he posted is fairly close to the one I use as a guideline but also has more detail in regards to how to use those numbers.

 

[Zen_seeker]

I bet you will find that temp gun to check leaf temps well worth the cost. I bought a cheap ryobi at HD for maybe 20-30 and was great spent money. No joke I printed Aquas reply about ideal leaf temps being 75-78 and stuck to controller(see below ) and it is golden to me. Now I say "meh" to what my sensors say and just use the gun pew pew pew like at 10 leafs all over the tent and if they are within that range I feel I'm good.

As for RH higher or lower, I definitely think whether you are in veg or flower makes the most difference. In Veg, higher RH seems warranted and necessary so long as enough airflow exists within the jungle. I'm such a newb it took like 2 grows to realize my leaves weren't "crying" when I was finding random clear water on leaves. Did not realize that when they laid on top of each other and stayed stagnant without air-flow, that this would happen.

Like the ACI tents too.

 

[Rootsruler]

i really need to get some time to do a thread on that.

So not only does a light fixture have an efficiency for converting electricity into photons. The plants also have an efficiency of absorbing them… and this is based on the spectrum and receptors.

Red is most efficient then blue for photosynthesis but at high light intensity like 800+ppfd green becomes the most efficient.

You want to maximize the photons for all receptors. Thats why a full spectrum is the most efficient for photosynthesis.

Reflection does not change spectrum but if it’s passing through something like glass it can filter some of the photons out and can alter the spectrum. In terms of reflection depending in the properties of the reflector is can absorb photons but any which way you cut it any reflection that directs photons to the plants is better than no e

So if we measured the reflected light vs the direct light at the point of reflection the values would be the same? I ask because that would mean that bud sites at the edges but lower in the canopy get the reflected light off the walls whereas lower bud sites in the middle of the canopy don't. Can I assume, from what you've posted, that the lower bud sites near the walls are getting more photons than those in the middle of the canopy?