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Stoney & The Shine RDWC SCROG
- Thread starter Stoneyluv
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man i'd run a dedicated 220 line for it if it could cut the leaves for me!!!!! haha
been driving me crazy for months now man...
yeah same water.. i have a 225 gal tote outside under the gutter and a 55gal in the basement, up till now the barrel was the only one that had an airstone but due to racking my brain i've since got a solar air pump on the outside tote as well. put it on a few weeks ago after i started this round.
one light i've used for a few years now and the other Bandit has used for a few years with no problems. i hd this issue before i added the second light from Bandit. they are different though, different diodes, different lights...
Grump which one of these does your diodes look more like? what year is stamped on your light? my left one is a 2020 and the right is a 2018
i'm not apposed to put in an older hid to confirm this just thought maybe i was really reaching because both are tried and true..
Wait wtf you are still dealing with this?
I gotta go back and read some. I do my best thinking in the shower. And while taking a dump. For you, I will poop in the shower.
yes sir, i'm still a hot mess. ph is still diving .1-.2 everyday and not like before either, this steady drops all the time not like waiting 16 hours before its a steady decline, bubbles are at a bare minimum and it's not fixing it this time. it held rock steady for twelve days then started to drop everyday. i add 1ml of down once a day to keep it at 5.8
the curling and burning seems to be still happening. its tough to tell as it takes three weeks to show and i'm at 13 days right now, i expect curling and burning to start tonight.
i've tried so much and so many different theories that i thought it could be and always seem to find evidence of an issue but none have been thee issue.. i thought for sure it was the dampening off. before that i felt it was poisoning, before that it was something else and so on..
i feel i'm running in circles, the fact that its happening to soil plants is just got me even more confused, and why not the one four inches away from the other??
oh man, i didn't know you dealt with that man.. i've had some intestine issues in the past and they're not fun!!
at one time i thought maybe from all the mite sprays and bombs i used, but i've cleaned so well and even tried growing with the doors wide open and still has issues. and on top of that my exhaust fan is in the other cabinet and draws the air through the white into the black before it goes outside, they even share a common wall and have open vents between the two. panda film for them came from the same roll. same lung room... the exhaust has been running about every 20 minutes. my grow has fresher air than my house gets right now.
close up pics from right now... ( the soil plants are eight days older than the hydros)
i pulled some power out last night but this was all in desperation and probably means nothing... all turning down the light does is just slows the problem, it's not the problem. if it was the lights why doesn't it cause problems earlier when the plant is young and frail,, been under the 30-30-30 since they were seeds, now all of the sudden they have a problem with the lights, i'm not buying it, that just doesn't make any sense whatsoever to me.
Observer
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Man what the fuck?
moe.red
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Ok we are getting into twilight zone kinda weird. It’s not supposed to be this hard to grow a weed.
Do you have any micronized sulfur?
In my very humble opinion this has nothing to do with the color of the photons hitting the plants.
Today was my last day. Been super busy with the transition getting out of there. I’m still going to consult a little but tomorrow is the first day since I was 12 I’m not waking up employed. I’m thinking tomorrow’s shit shower shave shine is gonna be my best thinking ever. At least I have plenty of reading material ^^^
Needs cal mag btw.
Do you have any micronized sulfur?
In my very humble opinion this has nothing to do with the color of the photons hitting the plants.
Today was my last day. Been super busy with the transition getting out of there. I’m still going to consult a little but tomorrow is the first day since I was 12 I’m not waking up employed. I’m thinking tomorrow’s shit shower shave shine is gonna be my best thinking ever. At least I have plenty of reading material ^^^
Needs cal mag btw.
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Sounds like ill water chemistry to me. Same water thru all of these issues even though the lights and just about everything else has changed but the issue remains? That's 100% bad water chemistry + the plants are showing they hate what ever is burning up the roots.
Something already in the water is not agreeing with something you add in there. Probably can't be measured in TDS either. Microbial maybe.
I'd start with the water and filter it, RO it if you have to. At minimum sediment and carbon and maybe even deionize it.
Personally, I'd jump straight to RO because of personal experience with this sort of stuff in hydro. Nothing worse than mystery shit in water keeping you running in circles and chasing ghosts
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@moe.red , i meant to say above my
i agree whole heartedly!!
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats freakin awesome man!!!!! got any plans for the first celebration? takin the wife away for a little? catching up on projects?
and yes, i do own some sulfur powder, i use it late in flower for flavor. never put it in hydro tough.
and sorry i messed up above when i said i'm putting down in eveyday.. i am adding 1ml of UP everyday. ph drops to 5.7 in 24 hours and i raise it to 5.8.
i agree whole heartedly!!
Ok we are getting into twilight zone kinda weird. It’s not supposed to be this hard to grow a weed.
Do you have any micronized sulfur?
In my very humble opinion this has nothing to do with the color of the photons hitting the plants.
Today was my last day. Been super busy with the transition getting out of there. I’m still going to consult a little but tomorrow is the first day since I was 12 I’m not waking up employed. I’m thinking tomorrow’s shit shower shave shine is gonna be my best thinking ever. At least I have plenty of reading material ^^^
Needs cal mag btw.
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! thats freakin awesome man!!!!! got any plans for the first celebration? takin the wife away for a little? catching up on projects?
and yes, i do own some sulfur powder, i use it late in flower for flavor. never put it in hydro tough.
and sorry i messed up above when i said i'm putting down in eveyday.. i am adding 1ml of UP everyday. ph drops to 5.7 in 24 hours and i raise it to 5.8.
Observer
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Using rain water?
moe.red
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Plans include cleaning the garage. I’m a lotta laughs.
Would you mind sprinkling a little sulfur around the stem and leaves of one of the affected plants? Powder the top of the substrate a bit? Lights out time if possible. Don’t make it look like a powdered donut but get it up in there.
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yes sir, been zero ppms mostly but used to read 9ppms. since using it more often now it lowered to zero. been using it a while now, more than five years anyway.
sweet man, that sounds like the perfect first project, n time line, just get it done when it's done and work on when ya feel like!!!
i'll put it on the two left side plants first thing in the morning when the lights go out.
another thing to add, it seems like when these plants go south there is no bringing them back. the one that was in the system the longest i put outside a week ago or more and since then the curls have gotten worse, we haven't had nice weather at all but the curl is even more amplified outside... and the lower growth seems to never recover and never grows once that node burns either.
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It's that time? Retirement??Ok we are getting into twilight zone kinda weird. It’s not supposed to be this hard to grow a weed.
Do you have any micronized sulfur?
In my very humble opinion this has nothing to do with the color of the photons hitting the plants.
Today was my last day. Been super busy with the transition getting out of there. I’m still going to consult a little but tomorrow is the first day since I was 12 I’m not waking up employed. I’m thinking tomorrow’s shit shower shave shine is gonna be my best thinking ever. At least I have plenty of reading material ^^^
Needs cal mag btw.
That's awesome
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Well.. call me crazy, but I'm not seeing a date on it anywhere. I bought it from CLW last summer. Diodes look similar to the ones in the left picture.
-------
Dude..
Your outside plant
My Power Plant failure from last year.
Eerily similar man... but I can't help because the problem didn’t persist into the next grow.
Contaminated Hydroton??
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i never have tried other water. i could always just try my tap water, from my well. it's a little hard but it might be worth a test.. i don't have an RO filter.
this is the first time it's happened in soil.. i've been using all the same water to water all my plants, even the ones in flowering right now.
man that does look similar, even has some of the edge curl. even starts on your third set down too..
i'm not saying it can't be the hydroten but i did wash it all very well just before this round of reusing it.
.
the date should be just next to the comm ports. this is what the older and the newer date stamps look like...
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Filtration starts in stages. Honestly I couldn't grow with out filtering my water because there's couple mysteries in there plants hate.
Maybe boiling your water before using is all you need if it's something like pathogen.
I prefer to build a custom filter and there's 5 stages to consider. Sediment and carbon may only be what you need and if so you could get lucky and build a gravity powered filter for about $25 then another $20 every 2-3 grows when it's time to replace those two filters
After carbon would be dechlor which you do not need since you don't add chloramine to your rain barrel.
However, if boiling water fixed anything then that's a major clue to it being a living organism infecting your plants.
At this point in theory you could shock the rain water with chlorine to sterilize it then filter or evap the chlorine out before using it in the garden.
To filter it, you're looking at a $50 upgrade part to the filter system but could still be gravity powered.
Deionization is optional as well and I doubt your issues are due to ionization of your water. Maybe but unlikely. The pH swing could be due to this but so could other factors.
Roughly a $10 upgrade and gravity can still be used. I use it just for peace of mind and pH stability.
5th stage is RO and I'm lucky now because I used to need RO but water has changed and now I don't.
If RO is needed then it's just better to buy the filter kit for around $70 then you don't have to buy it in parts.
RO will need at least 40PSI to work so it needs to be pumped thru the filter.
I can go into more details on the build and installing bypass valves to bypass RO or easily flip to get RO depending on needs.
I can also give you links to the filter I'm using as well if you need. I've shopped around already and these are some of the better filter for the price.
But yeah man the filter system I've built is kinda nuts. Only maybe $130 invested but it performs like the ones that cost $450, just not as fast.
Anyways, yeah,I'd focus 100% on that water man. You know your lights can grow plants because they've grown hundreds of plants already and they're by far one of the most user friendly models of lights one could ever use so it's not them. No way those 550s are plant killers like that man no matter what generation they are
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i was hoping they wouldn't send you old stock!!
Grump, help me out man, which journal of your had that plant in it that you posted ^^?
also, do you think in any way your RO filter caused your water pump to die? when you use your RO does it cycle your pump often? do you happen to know how many gallons your pressure tank holds? (like how much water you use before it cycles the pump) mine hold a few gallons not much at all and i'm curious about it before i would even think of using one.
i'm not apposed to trying other water. the SIP plants have direct contact to the water and it would make sense that they would show the signs compared more so to my other soil plants, maybe the soil buffers the problem more in the dark cabinet. but to be honest they all don't look that great this round either so i feel a water change is not out of the question here.
i have options of other water without buying a filter just yet.
tell me more about why you used UV in your tank? i only use it for algae but maybe it does more that i'm not aware of...
i need to look into this more before i buy anything but like i said i'm not disagreeing with at least trying other water.
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That was in my "Grump's Power Plant Grow" thread.
Thread 'Grump's Power Plant Grow.' https://budbuilders.org/threads/grumps-power-plant-grow.573/
i'm not sure what you mean here. My water pump died? The one outside in my well? That was a faulty check valve that was constantly emptying my tank back to the well. I've had no short-cycle issues since it was repaired.
My RO will run after I pull a gallon out of the 50 gallon RO barrel. It's controlled by a float valve and shuts itself off pretty quickly after I installed the booster pump. Before that, it just wasn't getting good pressure and was taking forever to fill after a res change used it all. With the booster pump, it fills my 50 gallons in a little under a day.
My biggest issue is the amount of waste from the RO. It's a 4:1 ratio of waste to RO. Bandit suggested a little upgrade to the RO system that cuts down the waste closer to 2:1. I haven't installed that part yet, though.
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Some soils do have built in things to help. Anything from microbes to physical drought and a dry back helps kill water borne nasty.
I don't think you need to change your water so much as just run it thru a filter and get it to the degree of purification that plants will love it or use something that will kill every living thing in it then be ez to remove that agent so it won't affect the good stuff you add before using it for anything.
I use the UV pump for helping to decrease algae but algae is actually a good thing for my operations so a healthy algae bloom is welcome in my tank. It turns into plant food for me and also eats up anything the water filter doesn't clean out.
I want a nice bright green grassy look to it and not a dark green sludge scum so the UV helps keep that in balance.
My UV also has a pump and carbon filter in it and I'd say it's more useful purpose is constantly stirring the tank and killing any water borne nasties keeping the water fresh after it's been filtered and in the holding tank waiting to be used in the gardens.
After 24 hours of standing still water goes stagnant and bad shit starts to happen in it. I keep mine moving thru the UV and carbon plus it's blasted with oxygen 24/7.
Pretreating your water with food grade h202 to kill anything in it will also work and like chlorine will evaporate in a short time.
If you do RO though just be sure to do the 2 stages of filtration first. Like you don't go straight from rain barrel or tap to RO membrane. You'll ruin the membrane and not get the clean water you need. It has to run thru the sediment and carbon before it enters the RO chamber then you harvest what comes out of the RO. With all the rain you get man I kinda find it nuts you haven't gone RO yet. If water was free and waste of RO didn't cost me anything I'd probably have a cistern buried and full of pure RO water
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Not having easy access to RO water near my room is the #1 reason I don't do hydro.
Anthem said it could be done with tap but if anything goes sideways you are just chasing your tail, or your tails shadow.
You never really know for sure.
Anthem said it could be done with tap but if anything goes sideways you are just chasing your tail, or your tails shadow.
You never really know for sure.
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What part is that? I have an ispring rcc7 and the waste is 3:1 or more. @Bandit420
Observer
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It's really not fun with tap lol, but it's doable; sterile or mycos/bennies.
I'm going 5 stage when I can. UV filtration. 40 mg/l DO lol.
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Run a 3/4 or half inch line from your house to your shed.. problem solved.
It's a flow restrictor.
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Grump hooked you up with the link. You get the restrictor according to the size of system you're using and there's instructions to where in the system you install it. I wanna say it's back flush line but not 100%, it's been a while.
It will give you a 1:1 waste but like for me and my 100GPD filter slows it way down to around 45-50GPD so expect to take twice as long to get the same volume of water before the restrictor
I think a lot of the premium nute lines are designed for RO. The lower shelf stuff like Jacks might do well with tap but just depends.
I love RO because it's pretty much a cure all like cal/mag or something.
I think my water now is about 90% the quality it was when I used RO and does well but it's more bitchy and creates a higher maintenance garden than when I used RO.
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So would a pump help w the time? probably not I'm guessing. My ispring is rated to do 75gpd
Observer
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RO needs atleast 40PSI I think
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No you keep everything at the same pressure. It's just like taking a 2 lane road down to 1 lane and it backs up traffic
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You only need a booster pump if the inlet pressure is under 40psi like @Observer mentioned. I added one to mine downstairs because my water pressure is only 30-35 psi.
Yeah you're right.
@Skinnypuppy80, There's probably already a restrictor on your RO system. Looks just like the one in that link. You just swap one for the other. Easy peasy.
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thanks man.. that photo looks the closest to mine i've seen o the internet to date so i just wanna go back read an maybe we had something in common that would give me a clue..
ahhhhh.. sorry i didn't realize thats what caused that. i understand now.
thanks for those tips. they help!!! i wasn't aware of the waste, that matter as my drain in the basement would not work for that i would have to pipe it outside somehow.
i'd most likely need a booster pump.. it all adds up..
ya know man my dark side grow isn't all perfect at the moment... i swore till this day that i cooked a few plants with the lights but maybe theres a chance it wasn't all that and maybe i need to run a few tests.
i have some filters here that might work for a test. i only have a few weeks till harvest in the soil side so i'll be starting a new batch and will be able to control things a little better and have a more fair and complete test.
i got ya, thats what i was hoping to hear... ya know alga also put more o2 in the water!!! win win on the good green!!!!
yeah i'm really leaning this way... i have some 12% food grade and some h2o2 ppm strips to measure it. i'm still working on a couple theories with Moe and i'll probably be trying this.
If you do RO though just be sure to do the 2 stages of filtration first. Like you don't go straight from rain barrel or tap to RO membrane. You'll ruin the membrane and not get the clean water you need. It has to run thru the sediment and carbon before it enters the RO chamber then you harvest what comes out of the RO. With all the rain you get man I kinda find it nuts you haven't gone RO yet. If water was free and waste of RO didn't cost me anything I'd probably have a cistern buried and full of pure RO water
i understand what you're saying, and i understand they have a life to them.
i'm gonna be brutally honest with you guys here, i have not rules out pests yet... not a 100% yet and it could still be a possibly. i hate to think that but i'm not above saying no way, never, not my plants... so i need to inspect better to get to at least 99% sure, right now at this very moment i'm only at 85%.. just sayin..
today the plants look the same, no better, no worse.. somethings still choking them though.
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as most of you guys thought, i have/had something ugly in my rainwater. been running the system with 25ppms of h2o2 for a few days now and the ph immediately balanced out and stopped diving the very next day.
the plants themselves were not doing any better and the one i put outside weeks ago still hasn't recovered so it's possible they may never so i wasn't going wait.
my issue could be bacterial, viral, or even pests. i have not completely ruled out russet mites yet. i have a better scope coming tomorrow to look closely at all the plants in the black room that are almost ready for harvest. either way i will have no plants growing and it will be the perfect time to clean again. but i looked closely at the four that were in here and i did not see any hint or sign of a mite at all. those little maggots aren't like the two spotters to see, russetts are tiny to see so i want a better scope to be 100% sure and not just 97%
what we don't know is if it is water born only.. i could be dealing with a multi problem so the h2o2 and bleach should take care of the water itself. as for the air/walls i bought a new tool to help clean.. 100w of UVC.. this will kill bacteria, virus', mite eggs, pollen, mold, and any other creepy crawly i don't want!!!
I turned the uv on outside the cabinet while i clouded the inside with ozone, then i switched places, put the ozone outside and blasted the UV inside. anything trying to get away from the ozone got met by a death light!! and the uv itself creates ozone while it's running so a two-for on that one!!
so with the room clear and clean and the water now sterile i decided to give some test plants a try.
bet ya never saw a basil SCROG before!!! hahaha just testing. will be interesting to know if it's fixed or maybe its a ganga specific thing. gotta test to get the data.. basil n parsley..
for now i've drained the rain collector, tipped it over and pressure washed it out real good. then put in a lot of h2o2 and bleach, put a brand new carbon filter mat on top and connected the gutter pipe. it poured last night and filled it up almost all the way up. the h2o2 concentration was around 100ppms!!! hopefully thats enough to kill anything in there. i then filled up the inside rain barrel with that concentrated water. i'll let them both sit till they read 0ppm.
till then i'm watering my soil plants with my tap water (hard water deep well) and i also have a barrel of 30 gallons of treated clean water for whatever. most likely hydro.
i would also like to clean my humidifier really well as i was using that water for it. i've been adding h2o2 to it for now. all my cutting tools and beakers and stuff i use a lot also got blasted with UV and ozone already.. Moe Red even has me wearing a long sleeve lab coat and fresh gloves every time i go downstairs just to contain whatever this thing is.. turns out it's kinda nice having pockets for stuff i only use down there and never have to empty!!!!
i'll certainly update y'all if anything changes...
the plants themselves were not doing any better and the one i put outside weeks ago still hasn't recovered so it's possible they may never so i wasn't going wait.
my issue could be bacterial, viral, or even pests. i have not completely ruled out russet mites yet. i have a better scope coming tomorrow to look closely at all the plants in the black room that are almost ready for harvest. either way i will have no plants growing and it will be the perfect time to clean again. but i looked closely at the four that were in here and i did not see any hint or sign of a mite at all. those little maggots aren't like the two spotters to see, russetts are tiny to see so i want a better scope to be 100% sure and not just 97%
what we don't know is if it is water born only.. i could be dealing with a multi problem so the h2o2 and bleach should take care of the water itself. as for the air/walls i bought a new tool to help clean.. 100w of UVC.. this will kill bacteria, virus', mite eggs, pollen, mold, and any other creepy crawly i don't want!!!
I turned the uv on outside the cabinet while i clouded the inside with ozone, then i switched places, put the ozone outside and blasted the UV inside. anything trying to get away from the ozone got met by a death light!! and the uv itself creates ozone while it's running so a two-for on that one!!
so with the room clear and clean and the water now sterile i decided to give some test plants a try.
bet ya never saw a basil SCROG before!!! hahaha just testing. will be interesting to know if it's fixed or maybe its a ganga specific thing. gotta test to get the data.. basil n parsley..
for now i've drained the rain collector, tipped it over and pressure washed it out real good. then put in a lot of h2o2 and bleach, put a brand new carbon filter mat on top and connected the gutter pipe. it poured last night and filled it up almost all the way up. the h2o2 concentration was around 100ppms!!! hopefully thats enough to kill anything in there. i then filled up the inside rain barrel with that concentrated water. i'll let them both sit till they read 0ppm.
till then i'm watering my soil plants with my tap water (hard water deep well) and i also have a barrel of 30 gallons of treated clean water for whatever. most likely hydro.
i would also like to clean my humidifier really well as i was using that water for it. i've been adding h2o2 to it for now. all my cutting tools and beakers and stuff i use a lot also got blasted with UV and ozone already.. Moe Red even has me wearing a long sleeve lab coat and fresh gloves every time i go downstairs just to contain whatever this thing is.. turns out it's kinda nice having pockets for stuff i only use down there and never have to empty!!!!
i'll certainly update y'all if anything changes...
moe.red
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Whenever possible strip down and spin in front of that uvc for about 10 minutes to make sure you are good and sterile before working in your plants. I also recommend staying nude during the gardening just in case.
For bonus points take a few huffs off the ozone like a hookah to make sure you kill off anything in your mouth and lungs too.
Do this every day for a week and I promise your grow will no longer be a problem you need to worry about.
Newbies I’m completely full of shit disregard everything I just said.
Couple more days of no ph swing and I’ll tell you my hypothesis about what was happening there.
Were you able to see anything at all in the water under your microscope? If not can you test some water from a puddle to make sure it’s working? You should be able to pick up single cell organisms we might be able to identify.
Paramecium
Algae
Should be all kinds of stuff you can pick out
For bonus points take a few huffs off the ozone like a hookah to make sure you kill off anything in your mouth and lungs too.
Do this every day for a week and I promise your grow will no longer be a problem you need to worry about.
Newbies I’m completely full of shit disregard everything I just said.
Couple more days of no ph swing and I’ll tell you my hypothesis about what was happening there.
Were you able to see anything at all in the water under your microscope? If not can you test some water from a puddle to make sure it’s working? You should be able to pick up single cell organisms we might be able to identify.
Paramecium
Algae
Should be all kinds of stuff you can pick out
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that was the very first thing i did with it!!!!! nothing like a good UV shower!! hahahaha
i picked up a battery for the rf remote it has, it's more convenient having the remote versus pressing the button and running.
i lost count of the days Moe, it's been about a week since the ph has been stable as can be, it feels odd just looking at the number and not having to do anything or add anything! quite refreshing!! i just hope it will continue if i go live.
still riding at like 15ppm of h2o2 in the system. it's coming down slow and steady.
no sir, i spent about an hour looking but that microscope is more of a toy, i wasn't kidding when i said it was from my childhood.
i'm asking around and see if i can't borrow one from a friend.
thats a great idea. i'll put some cruddy water in it and see if i can see anything on that.
those are some great examples man!! i have some prepared slide with marled bacteria on them but they're all clear large specimens and easy to see.
i'm gonna look some more but my first attempt i did not see anything at all and nothing moving at all.
.
i picked up a better loop/scope for looking for mites.. before i say for sure that i didn't see any, i need to ask, is this what i'm looking for?
the small white maggot looking things on the leaf?
i did not see anything that resembled anything like that or any other bug that i'm aware of. i looked at a handful of leaves each from a different plant and each of them is showing signs of recent damage within the past week.
i looked on top, bottom, all around.. concentrated the most where the blades meet the petiole and showed the most signs of curl and not a negative speck on anything i looked at. just saw trichomes.
i'm going to keep looking at them each day until i chop, they look so tiny in that photo that it looks easy to miss one. it's just eerie to see how much my plants look like it and i'm really trying to find a russet mite. i mean i'm happy i didn't see any yet but i'm going at it as if i do have them and just haven't seen them yet.
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i ran the water in my barrel through the RV filter and added the high concentration of h2o2. i also dropped in an airstone. weird to say but it actually looks cleaner and clearer than before.
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i'll stay in this holding pattern and continue to monitor the ph and h2o2 and see if there is any new growth on the herbs over the next few days.
Thanks Moe!!!!!!!!
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