Bean's Stash Closet

[Cool_Beans]

I dont really know enough about grow lights to spend a bunch on them yet. What would be a good upgrade to look at for that size space?

 

[Anthem275]

Spider farmer will I’ve done it and so have you but if you can afford some nicer it does make a difference! Red where’s ur sf lights ? Lol same place mine are ! Lol

Mosh did the spider farmers suck?

 

[moe.red]

I gave 4 SF 2000s away.

They are OK not great.

I have not tried one of their bar lights. They kept screwing around with me on a sponsorship and I finally just walked away. I think they are a big improvement over the quantum board style, just no spectrum control at all. Cheaper that way.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Well I guess I learned my light sucks lol. And to think just yesterday I was perfectly happy w it.

 

[Moshmen]

Well I guess I learned my light sucks lol. And to think just yesterday I was perfectly happy w it.

The light doesn’t suck! There’s just better out there course it comes at a price! I flower with s hlg which is in my best tent - I use kingbrites which no control but still grow good bud ! And even a mars light - so good product can be produced - I have a sf 2000 just don’t like the spectrum and size of board that’s all -

 

[moe.red]

Well I guess I learned my light sucks lol. And to think just yesterday I was perfectly happy w it.

No man sorry if I misled.

The ones I gave away were quantum boards. Like gen 1 sf lights. Not great just ok. But they were an upgrade to the blurples I had in there before that. And the blurples were an upgrade in ppfd over the floresant I had before that.


It’s all relative.

Here’s the funny thing. Like people wearing crocs again, seem like blurples are back in style for flowering. The distinct lack of green produces a higher thc in the flower stage. But they are not nearly as good at veg as your full spectrum se3000.

Everything is a compromise until you get to the $1500 plus per light kinda hardware. And then you need to know what you are doing to run those lights! Nothing is free!

I would absolutely find a spot on the basement for your light if I had one.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Its all good dudes I was just being early morning stoned smartass, I totally get it.

My general attitude is that there are typically diminishing returns with most things one pays a premium for, particularly in the enthusiast realm of hobbies. The few % of performance there is to potentially gain, isnt likely to be realized without some extensive know how to go with.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Yesterday did a reup on my nutes back to 850ppm or so, tweaked toward GH transition ratios. Added silica one last time, and same 1/2 tsp epsom per gal added. All the leaves look good.

Also, while the plant was still manageable I wanted to give it a root bath in hygrozyme(I only added it to the res before), feel the roots and also check surfaces inside the grow bucket etc. I havent seen the entire root system in weeks and it's damn amazing.
Hygrozyme bath was left very cloudy so I assume good root exfoliation occured, plant loved it. Perked right up within an hour back in the bucket which surprised me since I also defoliated some while it was out. I figured all this handling would at least irritate her? Nope.

I dumped some of the enzyme solution in the res and also dipped my clones as they are putting roots out now. I'm gonna keep a close eye this week to see how she likes the nute change.

 

[Cool_Beans]

I'm still inching the light down Moe, slowly. It responds fairly quickly if I put it too close.

 

[Cool_Beans]

This strain seems to be on board with what I'm hoping to accomplish here. If I get it through ok and the smoke is nice I'll be pretty stoked to run it again I think.

 

[moe.red]

your gardening skills are showing.

 

[Cool_Beans]

I cant take any credit, product of my environment. Dad is a very good farmer. He imparted the ancient wisdom and I thank him every chance I get. Even he knows its all still a crapshoot though lol.

 

[Cool_Beans]

She responded well to the nutes and is chowing down. Nice little boost of growth above the trellis today. Res is clean and pH has been very stable.

 

[moe.red]

I'm surprised the water in the res is not darker at 860 ppm.

You are running GH, correct?

I tend to modify the instructions and use a lot less grow and at lot more micro than they suggest. Micro has lots of N, but it also has other important stuff like Sulphur. I can expand a bit more when I have time.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Yes GH. I'm using their ratios but not at their recommended ppm or schedule. I have Epsom in there too.

 

[Cool_Beans]

I topped off with tap water today and ppms are down around 810 . Definitely drinking and eating more this week and blasting off to somewhere lol. I have 50ppm from my tap in that # as well Moe.

 

[Cool_Beans]

Another angle from the weed cam.

 

[moe.red]

Another angle from the weed cam.

Plant looks perfect.

My only concern is if it would look just as good at 500ppm.

The nutes you use will have an impact on taste, color, finish.

You can definitely have too much of a good thing, like garlic. And nutes sometimes.

This this where your growing style will emerge. What will you do? Smoke grows trees on sneezes farts and a little cal mag. I’m in the low middle. I know successful growers that do over 1000.

 

[Cool_Beans]

I like the farts and cal mag plan lol. I cook the same way.

Right now I'm just feeling my way around and through things and happy the system itself has been performing without issue. Automating climate has been a big load off. I like that the skill ceiling is near infinite and there is much I can improve on. The custom light spectrums intrigue the shit out of me, so that'll be happening at some point.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

You're doing great CB. Fun watching you going through some of the same things I went through.

My only concern is if it would look just as good at 500ppm.

First thing caught my eye was the darkish green you are seeing and I thought the same thing about your ppm's that Moe mentioned.

I went through this my last two grows and learned less is more. I left for two days with the ppm on the Grape Gas grow at about 470. It will likely be below 400 when I get home Saturday morning and I would amend but I plan to change out the res to bloom ratios at that time, gonna aim for that 500 mark and go higher if they show a deficiency. These plants are super happy, hope to find the time to update the journal this weekend but my priority is working on the forum and website so we'll see.

I have not had to correct much yet in deficiencies yet but I have had over feeding issues and it seems those effects do not go away once you have over fed them even if you dilute your res. That N tox is a bitch from what I can tell.

Here are a couple of photos I took this morning before I left.

 

[Moshmen]

lookin great up in there ! Nice work

 

[Cool_Beans]

Those plants look fantastic SLG. I'm all for less is more approach. These unicorn pisses are 'spensive lol.

 

[smoke]

Plant looks perfect.







My only concern is if it would look just as good at 500ppm.







The nutes you use will have an impact on taste, color, finish.







You can definitely have too much of a good thing, like garlic. And nutes sometimes.







This this where your growing style will emerge. What will you do? Smoke grows trees on sneezes farts and a little cal mag. I’m in the low middle. I know successful growers that do over 1000.

And sneezes and farts aren't really needed imvho

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

lookin great up in there ! Nice work

I think you were talking to me, if so thanks!

Also, glad to see you over here Mosh

 

[Cool_Beans]

What's everyone's feelings on res changes? GH says weekly full resets, but they sell me the shit. Seems counterintuitive in a living water system, and wasteful.

My experiment thus far has been been to treat it like an aquarium, ie periodic partial changouts. Each week I exchange 4 gallons of fresh mix in addition to the fresh tap I top off with. This typically nets me a ~25% weekly exchange based on my total. My water has been very stable since cycling week 2 or 3 of veg, even before silica.

I'd like to develop this more over time and learn how to ammend individual things in the res as needed vs these predetermined ratios and their schedules etc. I understand the potential issues w accumulation of things and ratios being thrown off by ammending. That's what I hope to figure out. At the end of it I think I'll have a much better understanding than if I just follow someone's recipe.

Thoughts?

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

I had read where weekly changes are necessary but I do not think it necessary in my limited experience. I have been trying to go all the way with a single change out at flip to keep the proper ratios in order. I honestly think it's counterproductive to constantly change the res, seems like you just get the buffer at 100% and then you change it out? Naw, not me if I don't have to, especially right now where I have been buried in life.

Running a 4 plant system takes NOTICEABLY more nutrients and what not so cost starts to play a factor as well as time. Another consideration is the amount of water in that 4 site. I'm guessing that there are about 28-30 gallons of water in that system and it takes over 24 hours for my system to filter that much. Why waste all that water if you don't have to, considering the waste off that system is double what I keep. So roughly 90 gallons of well water to make that change out, rather not if I don't have to.

As far as amending a veg res to reflect flower ratios, I am sure it can be done but you would need to be able to analyze your base before amending and I would imagine that would take some fairly sophisticated equipment. That is when I will do a change out.

 

[moe.red]

What's everyone's feelings on res changes? GH says weekly full resets, but they sell me the shit. Seems counterintuitive in a living water system, and wasteful.

My experiment thus far has been been to treat it like an aquarium, ie periodic partial changouts. Each week I exchange 4 gallons of fresh mix in addition to the fresh tap I top off with. This typically nets me a ~25% weekly exchange based on my total. My water has been very stable since cycling week 2 or 3 of veg, even before silica.

I'd like to develop this more over time and learn how to ammend individual things in the res as needed vs these predetermined ratios and their schedules etc. I understand the potential issues w accumulation of things and ratios being thrown off by ammending. That's what I hope to figure out. At the end of it I think I'll have a much better understanding than if I just follow someone's recipe.

Thoughts?

Alright bro, I'll do my best here, but please understand we all have imperfect knowledge and this area is incredibly complex.

First, with RDWC, we have it easy in terms of managing nutes. We can dump and refill in a hearbeat and reset all our ratios instantaneously without worry of CEC or any soil salt buildup issues etc. I have come to view this as an emergency only technique for new growers, or if you are pushing the limits and mess up and need to get back to a baseline.

Dumping the res is not a natural process for the plant. You never change out soil mid grow.

When you dump the res, you are dumping exudates. These are chemical signals that the plant sends out via the roots to do things like attract beneficials, change PH to steer nute uptake, call in predators of things like root aphids, and a million other processes that are very complex and beyond my ability to explain in laymen's terms. I have been studying this for months now, and I find that in many cases the papers and studies done in this area (root exudates, enzymes, proteins and aminos, carbohydrates in the root zone produced by the plant) do not agree on their findings. But the truth is these studies are tangential to the base question we are asking right now, not specifically testing if removing all exudates so the plant has to start over is a good thing or a bad thing for cannabis.

I intend to study this myself in a controlled way.

So, I do not have hard data to share with you. What I have is about 10 years of RDWC experience and a lot of plants behind me. I've run sterile, I've done weekly res changes, I've done zero res changes for an entire grow, and pretty much everything in between.

They all work.

What I have not done is a side by side with clones in a controlled environment to find out HOW res changes effect the final product. That will happen.

If you want my "gut" answer to this, understanding it is a guess based on imperfect testing, I say leave the res intact if you have the skills to determine how to amend the res should you form a nutrient imbalance. Even new growers can do the nuclear option and drain and refill the res if they do have problems, so I would still lean on the keep the res intact side for them, as long as they have someone to help guide them if they run into trouble.

If not, weekly res changes are a good idea.

 

[moe.red]

One study I have mentioned that cannabis typically uses 17% of it's energy in pushing carbohydrates and other things out the roots.

We all know that mother nature tends towards the efficient, and kills off wasteful things thru out-competition from other organisms. This is not just a cannabis thing, almost all plants do this root zone sweetening to some extent.

My thought is why waste that energy by flushing it down the drain if you don't have to. Or dump it to only replace it with a bottle of panther piss like Bud Candy? Naw, not me.

 

[smoke]

I can get through a whole veg cycle (6 to 8 wks) without a change but i usually find i do maybe change out 3 times during flower. I Never do a complete change out always leaving 5 to 10 gal in the system (50 gal total in my system)

 

[Cool_Beans]

Dumping the res is not a natural process for the plant. You never change out soil mid grow

This is the heart of it right here for me, and why I had trouble accepting it.

Like you're saying, I can always toss the water if things go sideways and start over. I also anticipate some instability as the plant starts consuming more rapidly.

Thanks for the thoughts. I find more comfort in it being sort of ambiguous, there is some freedom to explore there, if that makes sense.

 

[Cool_Beans]

I can get through a whole veg cycle (6 to 8 wks) without a change but i usually find i do maybe change out 3 times during flower. I Never do a complete change out always leaving 5 to 10 gal in the system (50 gal total in my system)

Do you do more changes during flower because it is consuming more and changing chemistry? Or because you are introducing different things to the mix?

 

[smoke]

Do you do more changes during flower because it is consuming more and changing chemistry? Or because you are introducing different things to the mix?

Changing nutrient makeup
ie: the plant picks how much of what they want.

 

[Moshmen]

I know if I had do change every week I’d have to rethink hydro - 6/7 weeks sounds like a positive! Lol

 

[moe.red]

Changing nutrient makeup
ie: the plant picks how much of what they want.

Is that true tho? Does the plant have a filter that can select one element like N over K?

If the plant has a filter, why do we get nute burn?

Why do we perseverate over the exact right mix if the plant is capable of pulling just what it needs?

I think it has a very limited ability to determine what elements present in the water it takes up to allow or block. I think it takes up all nutes in the ratios that we put them in the water, and the wrong ratios lead to imbalances. I think it might manage PH thru exudates to say allow uptake of flower nutes over veg nutes by changing the PH right around the roots.

I'm not telling here, I'm asking.

 

[Anthem275]

Alright bro, I'll do my best here, but please understand we all have imperfect knowledge and this area is incredibly complex.

First, with RDWC, we have it easy in terms of managing nutes. We can dump and refill in a hearbeat and reset all our ratios instantaneously without worry of CEC or any soil salt buildup issues etc. I have come to view this as an emergency only technique for new growers, or if you are pushing the limits and mess up and need to get back to a baseline.

Dumping the res is not a natural process for the plant. You never change out soil mid grow.

When you dump the res, you are dumping exudates. These are chemical signals that the plant sends out via the roots to do things like attract beneficials, change PH to steer nute uptake, call in predators of things like root aphids, and a million other processes that are very complex and beyond my ability to explain in laymen's terms. I have been studying this for months now, and I find that in many cases the papers and studies done in this area (root exudates, enzymes, proteins and aminos, carbohydrates in the root zone produced by the plant) do not agree on their findings. But the truth is these studies are tangential to the base question we are asking right now, not specifically testing if removing all exudates so the plant has to start over is a good thing or a bad thing for cannabis.

I intend to study this myself in a controlled way.

So, I do not have hard data to share with you. What I have is about 10 years of RDWC experience and a lot of plants behind me. I've run sterile, I've done weekly res changes, I've done zero res changes for an entire grow, and pretty much everything in between.

They all work.

What I have not done is a side by side with clones in a controlled environment to find out HOW res changes effect the final product. That will happen.

If you want my "gut" answer to this, understanding it is a guess based on imperfect testing, I say leave the res intact if you have the skills to determine how to amend the res should you form a nutrient imbalance. Even new growers can do the nuclear option and drain and refill the res if they do have problems, so I would still lean on the keep the res intact side for them, as long as they have someone to help guide them if they run into trouble.

If not, weekly res changes are a good idea.

Dumping the whole rez can be looked at as unnatural but I do it three times a day. Ebb and Flow water for 30 minutes 3 times a day. It still produces high yields.
What actual is tip burn? Is it too high of PPM or the wrong percentage of NPK and such. I have my own data suggesting it is wrong percentages.

 

[Anthem275]

I know if I had do change every week I’d have to rethink hydro - 6/7 weeks sounds like a positive! Lol

I am afraid this is exactly what I do. I can get two done in about 1 hour.

 

[SweetLeafGrow]

Is that true tho? Does the plant have a filter that can select one element like N over K?

I too have wondered about this, and doubt that they can do that for reasons Moe mentioned. The red flag for me that says this is not being done was a lesson I learned when I first started growing in soil. Our well water rides between 700 and 900 ppm and I had read that I would not be able to use that water to grow cannabis. My stubborn ass had to f around and find out, which I did, lol.

I still don't understand the science behind it, but with all the tds in our water, the plants can't take in the good stuff no matter how much of it you give them when all that other stuff is in the water. Doesn't make logical sense to me, but I almost killed my first plants until I started getting bottled water from town. If they could pick and choose, I would think this would be the perfect scenario for them to do that, but they do not.

 

[moe.red]

Dumping the whole rez can be looked at as unnatural but I do it three times a day. Ebb and Flow water for 30 minutes 3 times a day. It still produces high yields.
What actual is tip burn? Is it too high of PPM or the wrong percentage of NPK and such. I have my own data suggesting it is wrong percentages.

I think you are collecting the water in the drain, and re-using it 3 times a day, right? This is not a drain to waste ebb and flow, is it?

If you are using the same water 3x a day for a week, that is not the same as dumping the res.

 

[Anthem275]

I think it has a very limited ability to determine what elements present in the water it takes up to allow or block. I think it takes up all nutes in the ratios that we put them in the water, and the wrong ratios lead to imbalances. I think it might manage PH thru exudates to say allow uptake of flower nutes over veg nutes by changing the PH right around the roots.

The area the plant can control PH is limited. I question how this would apply to a multi gallon system pumping water thru out the system 24/7.

 

[Anthem275]

I too have wondered about this, and doubt that they can do that for reasons Moe mentioned. The red flag for me that says this is not being done was a lesson I learned when I first started growing in soil. Our well water rides between 700 and 900 ppm and I had read that I would not be able to use that water to grow cannabis. My stubborn ass had to f around and find out, which I did, lol.

I still don't understand the science behind it, but with all the tds in our water, the plants can't take in the good stuff no matter how much of it you give them when all that other stuff is in the water. Doesn't make logical sense to me, but I almost killed my first plants until I started getting bottled water from town. If they could pick and choose, I would think this would be the perfect scenario for them to do that, but they do not.