'Failure is always an option' Bagseed Hydro grow

[smoke]

I assume it's the DfRobot dissolved oxygen sensor here https://how2electronics.com/dissolved-oxygen-sensor-arduino-interfacing-tutorial/

Here are some photos from this morning.
View attachment 16146
View attachment 16147

Here is the root development

B1
View attachment 16150

B3
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B4
View attachment 16148

And the stats from the last 24hr. I added water and some pH down this morning when I had the tent open. Been having to add ~4 gal every few days right now, it's growing like crazy.

View attachment 16151

Interesting root development above, i expected to see more of a root ball type development because of where you keep your water level.

I keep about 2-3 in of airspace in the reservoir at a minimum.

 

[WeedRider]

Interesting root development above, i expected to see more of a root ball type development because of where you keep your water level.

Interesting. Do you mean the roots are more of an inverted tree shape instead of staying in a ball?

For what it's worth the seeds were put into an Aerogarden until the roots were fairly developed, say 6-10". The aerogarden has a water level that is above the foam starter plugs so the roots are always submerged. I had originally planned on using a water pump to mist the individual net pots in the main tent until the roots would reach the water but found the aerogarden was easier. I had a staggered start with all the different seeds I was popping so there was some adjustment in schedule.

 

[Aqua Man]

The lower the water the more elongated the top above the water line will be. Then where the water line is comes the rootball

 

[moe.red]

Good to know, guess I'll have to spring for the Atlas Scientific d.o. probe then. I've been really happy with their pH sensor kit.

I'm never one to talk someone out of tech, but I wonder if your time / money would be better spent on converting to RDWC first? Just a thought.

 

[WeedRider]

I'm never one to talk someone out of tech, but I wonder if your time / money would be better spent on converting to RDWC first? Just a thought.

I'd consider it if the advantages are there. I like the simplicity of DWC though. One reservoir, no leaks, only one air pump to worry about, maxes water volume in the space available.

I can see the pros of having more water mixing and cooling of RDWC but so far I haven't had issues with temps and it seems like a lot of extra complexity. But if I can reduce grow cycle time that would be in my interests. I can't have these huge veg times like this first grow. Even thinking of trying sea of green, I've got 8 spots in my reservoir a real short veg could have pretty short time between harvest. 8oz in 6 mo would be perfect for me.

 

[WeedRider]

It's been a week since the flowers first showed and starting to get some nice buds (I think). Last water fill on Mon(?) I used just RO water as seemed EC was pretty high and I'd been adding nutes with water every time. Not sure if it was that or what but I noticed B3 especially started to get tip burn around Wed. I added some cal/mag and haven't noticed it getting worse. I also raised the lights a bit just in case.

Current levels. EC is closer to 2.4mS/cm than indicated here.



Examples of the tip burn and bud development







I notice a lot of bud sites starting lower down below where I trimmed, should I leave or trim them? I defoliated a bit again today for leaves that were right on top of each other.




I also moved my DWC lettuce hydro setup out of the lung room yesterday. That has helped a ton with humidity in the tent. I noticed gnats or something around the lettuce and didn't want that to spread to the tent. I've been using "Mosquito Bits" in the reservoirs to control fungus gnats but doesn't seem to have an effect on these larger gnats.

 

[Aqua Man]

It's been a week since the flowers first showed and starting to get some nice buds (I think). Last water fill on Mon(?) I used just RO water as seemed EC was pretty high and I'd been adding nutes with water every time. Not sure if it was that or what but I noticed B3 especially started to get tip burn around Wed. I added some cal/mag and haven't noticed it getting worse. I also raised the lights a bit just in case.

Current levels. EC is closer to 2.4mS/cm than indicated here.

View attachment 16492

Examples of the tip burn and bud development

View attachment 16493

View attachment 16494

View attachment 16495

I notice a lot of bud sites starting lower down below where I trimmed, should I leave or trim them? I defoliated a bit again today for leaves that were right on top of each other.
View attachment 16496

View attachment 16497

I also moved my DWC lettuce hydro setup out of the lung room yesterday. That has helped a ton with humidity in the tent. I noticed gnats or something around the lettuce and didn't want that to spread to the tent. I've been using "Mosquito Bits" in the reservoirs to control fungus gnats but doesn't seem to have an effect on these larger gnats.

How i do my top ups… a little more complex but worth it imo.

RDWC advanced top up method explained by Aqua Man

Ok I'm going to explain a more complex way of maintaining our systems for those looking to use best practices (IMO only) There are many ways this can be done but I feel this gives the most stability for PH, PPM, NUTRIENT RATIOS (super important) especially in systems with a low water volume. So...

budbuilders.org

 

[Aqua Man]

Time to change the ratios a bit imo… i think the tip burn is the beginning of a K deficiency. Its not nitrogen is why i say that. At this stage of flower is exactly when K demands start to really ramp up.

It will start with tip burn and the move along the serrations as it progresses .

Maybe a touch high in the light, walking the line it looks like.

Also if the budsites have already formed id leave em and think of the possibility of a dual harvest

 

[WeedRider]

Time to change the ratios a bit imo… i think the tip burn is the beginning of a K deficiency. Its not nitrogen is why i say that. At this stage of flower is exactly when K demands start to really ramp up.

It will start with tip burn and the move along the serrations as it progresses .

Maybe a touch high in the light, walking the line it looks like.

Also if the budsites have already formed id leave em and think of the possibility of a dual harvest

I've got the FF Trio pack if any of those would be helpful. Otherwise I've just been adjusting the strength of the Masterblend mix without changing ratios. Trying for 2.2 EC mS/cm but could bump that up if think it's needed.

I'll lower the light back down a bit. I'll have to look into Dual harvest, like the sound of it though.

 

[Aqua Man]

I've got the FF Trio pack if any of those would be helpful. Otherwise I've just been adjusting the strength of the Masterblend mix without changing ratios. Trying for 2.2 EC mS/cm but could bump that up if think it's needed.

I'll lower the light back down a bit. I'll have to look into Dual harvest, like the sound of it though.

Look up the master blend transition ratio or early flower. I would do a res change and run early flower ratios pretty much to the end

 

[WeedRider]

Look up the master blend transition ratio or early flower. I would do a res change and run early flower ratios pretty much to the end

Any more hints on the transition ratio? I tried looking it up last night but didn't find anything obvious. Is it for going from dirt to hydro?

Been thinking it was time for a res change. Should be able to do that tomorrow.

 

[Aqua Man]

Any more hints on the transition ratio? I tried looking it up last night but didn't find anything obvious. Is it for going from dirt to hydro?

Been thinking it was time for a res change. Should be able to do that tomorrow.

Nope just the ratio of each of the parts of nutrients… which master blend products are you using?

 

[WeedRider]

Nope just the ratio of each of the parts of nutrients… which master blend products are you using?

MasterBlend 4-18-38 combo kit. Tomato blend I think it's called.

 

[Aqua Man]

MasterBlend 4-18-38 combo kit. Tomato blend I think it's called.

Ok so that with cal nitrate and mag sulphate correct?

Just out for lunch but ill find the ratios for you when i get home if you like

 

[Aqua Man]

So are you mixing like 2.4g master, 1gram epsom and 2.4 grams cal nitrate?

Im think about 2.5-1-2 master, epsom, cal nitrate

 

[WeedRider]

What I've been using is more like 2g Master, 1g epsom, 2g cal nitrate. Will try your mix with the change tomorrow.

 

[WeedRider]

Water change is done. Really appreciating the drain I have available in the basement. Just attach hose, open valve and ~20 min later the water is all but gone. I purchased another storage tote so I have somewhere to mix the total water volume and adjust pH before transferring to the main reservoir with a submersible pump. pH was around 6.4 so matched that and will walk that down to 6.2 or so tonight/tomorrow.



For ratios, I normally use 180ml of A (MB + epsom) and B (cal) concentrate so this time I did 215ml A and 180ml B.

180 / 5 = 36
36 * 6 = 216ml

I'm working on adding a Co2 sensor to the data collection. I picked up a SCD-30 sensor and as it has temp/humidity built in it can replace the current air sensor with the added capabilities. Need to get it calibrated correctly first and make sure it's reliable. Been having issues with it dropping out after 12hr or so right now. Think I need to disable power between measurements. It might have an issue being on continuously.



Here are the girls tucked in the for the night just before lights out. Trimmed a few more fan leaves trying to keep the canopy flowing air. Lots of buds now want to get this over the finish line keeping my fingers crossed!

 

[WeedRider]

Moved the B1 mother to a separate DWC bucket next to the lettuce hydro setup. It was long overdue, can see it's all bent at an angle because it had outgrown the aerogarden. Also notice, almost no rust spots which have plauged the plant this was cloned from it's whole life. So something I did to the mother is still screwing with it.

I have one other clone (B4 I think) that has rooted and will set that up also down here once it's a bit bigger. If I can have a couple mothers going to take clones of once this harvest is complete it should really accelerate the next grow cycle.



Below is pictured the Co2 sensor. You can see in the chart it's stopped reporting again today so I've pulled it for now. Going to add a separate 3.3v regulator for the sensor tonight and see if that helps. ESP are pretty power hungry and the onboard regulator may not be cutting it.



I've been seeing VPD numbers as high as 1.6. Wondering if I should back that off some. I need to take leaf temp again and double check the dashboard is reporting accurately.

 

[Rootsruler]

Is that an Uno board you're using as a controller?

 

[WeedRider]

Is that an Uno board you're using as a controller?

It's an offshoot of the ESP8266 boards designed with some buttons, RGB Led. light sensor and a few I/O. Can be programmed with the Arduino IDE. Main advantage is they are really cheap - https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832382884710.html

I have a bunch of them spread around the house to monitor temp/humi/light which really helps in tuning the house A/C. Closing off certain areas has had significant improvements in cycle time and haven't hardly been over $200/mo for electricity this year even with the grow going on.

 

[Rootsruler]

It's an offshoot of the ESP8266 boards designed with some buttons, RGB Led. light sensor and a few I/O. Can be programmed with the Arduino IDE. Main advantage is they are really cheap - https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832382884710.html

I have a bunch of them spread around the house to monitor temp/humi/light which really helps in tuning the house A/C. Closing off certain areas has had significant improvements in cycle time and haven't hardly been over $200/mo for electricity this year even with the grow going on.

View attachment 16906

Nice. Is it hard to level out the HVAC?

 

[WeedRider]

Not really, using a thermal camera would be the faster way but this works indirectly. I have an IR gun I just ran around and figured out the entry way had three doors and they were all leaking badly and the insulation in that part of the house isn't great either. So I just blocked it off with plastic and a blanket. Totally ghetto but the charts and electric bill prove it works. I should probably put in a proper door to seal it off now that I know it is effective.

 

[WeedRider]

Got a new air stone, anyone try these? Made by Hygger, looked easier to clean than a normal air stone and also seems to require only a small air pump to be effective. Will drop it in tomorrow.



Here are the current stats. Been trying for a little bit lower pH 6.0 for this last part of the grow. Overshot it a bit last night but will keep adjusting.

I measured the underside of the leaves this morning with the IR gun and determined about a 2f difference between air so my VPD calculations should be fairly accurate.



Adding the 3v regulator seems to have done the trick for the co2 sensor It's been much more stable since adding that. Also I got the calibration routine figured out yesterday. Now I can hold the button while plugging it in then release when I see green/blue lights. Then it enters continuous measurement mode for 5 min after which it will force a calibration. Do this outside and it's a pretty reliable calibration. Outside air is pretty consistently around 400ppm Co2. Another day or two to verify operation and I'll replace the air sensor in the tent with this.

Next I need to work on 0-10v control for the light and the fan. I can control on/off with the wifi power strip but having analog control would be helpful. Would allow me to boost fan speed right after lights out for controlling humidity. Light control isn't strictly needed but hey why not. I've seen some really simple schematics using mostly just an optoisolator. Just have to experiment a bit (unless anyone has tried this before)

 

[WeedRider]

Should I just cull B1 at this point? It's the runt growing sideways out of the net cup. I have a clone of it that's doing great and I don't want it to interfere with the other plants when I doubt I'm going to get much out of it here.




Moved the Co2 sensor to the tent as things seem to be stable. Will be interesting to see the effect of the plants on the readings.


Plants are on day 4 of this new nute mix and I think things are ok. Seems like getting a bit more tip burn but that might be from the lights. Top bud sites had grown high enough that they were too close. Raised the light a bit and will keep monitoring. Already had to add water yesterday so like 5 gal per 3 days or so. I use a reduced strength of the new mix for the top up.

 

[WeedRider]

Found this tiny bud developing on a fan leaf.

 

[GoodShit97]

Found this tiny bud developing on a fan leaf. View attachment 17333

Looks like its got nanners coming out of it. Wanna grab a close up?

 

[smoke]

Found this tiny bud developing on a fan leaf. View attachment 17333

There's a name for that, no real uncommon, definitely not a freak.

 

[SiamSam]

Should I just cull B1 at this point? It's the runt growing sideways out of the net cup. I have a clone of it that's doing great and I don't want it to interfere with the other plants when I doubt I'm going to get much out of it here.

View attachment 17244


Moved the Co2 sensor to the tent as things seem to be stable. Will be interesting to see the effect of the plants on the readings.
View attachment 17243

Plants are on day 4 of this new nute mix and I think things are ok. Seems like getting a bit more tip burn but that might be from the lights. Top bud sites had grown high enough that they were too close. Raised the light a bit and will keep monitoring. Already had to add water yesterday so like 5 gal per 3 days or so. I use a reduced strength of the new mix for the top up.

View attachment 17245

When in doubt Pull it Out!

 

[WeedRider]

When in doubt Pull it Out!

I'm a little attached to it since it was my first plant to get anywhere. Will let it go one more week then prob chop it.

Looks like its got nanners coming out of it. Wanna grab a close up?

There's a name for that, no real uncommon, definitely not a freak.

Busted out the lens reverser for some close-ups. Does kinda look like nanners.
Should I cut this leaf off just in case?





While i had the camera and tripod out I took a couple pics of the buds from B3 and B3. Should I be worried about the darkening hairs?

B3


B4

 

[GoodShit97]

Should I cut this leaf off just in case?

Its definitely a few nanners in there. Id take the bud off the leaf or take the entire leaf. Entirely your call.